Oliver Stone and the JFK Assassination

[ellenrr]

Now on Dem-Now. The hypothesis behind this particularly conspiracy theory (Stone's) is that JFK was a "different" kind of politician - one who was not warlike, one who wanted to curb the CIA and other intelligence agencies, who was going to take the US in another direction, not imperialist, not super-capitalist, not militarist.....
and that's why he was killed.

This is nonsense! Maybe it was a conspiracy that killed Kennedy (and Oswald)- but the idea that JFK was a hero and a new kind of politician is nonsense.

Thoughts?

[peace13]

1. According to today's standards...

if a politician isn't a war monger s/he is most certainly a different kind of politician. Different equals hero? Not so sure. My family calls me different and I most certainly do not appear to be a hero in their eyes.

[fredamae]

2. What do you base your assertion

of disagreement with Stone on? How old were you when JFK was POTUS?

[lostincalifornia]

3. Actually, JFK set the foundation for the Civil Rights Act, and at that time it was considered a new

direction

I realize that is not the direction the post was soliciting discussion for, but it was important in the JFK legacy.

In regard to international issues, much is speculation since what he might have done was cut short. However, it is clear that JFK after the Bay of Pigs, was already moving away from "trusting" the CIA. In "The Fog of War". Robert McNamara strongly suggested that JFK was in the process of disengaging from Viet Nam, and it was Johnson who fully expanded it.

At this point, it is purely speculation

[fredamae]

4. If memory serves

weren't both Jack and US AG Bobby going after the Mafia/Corruption also?

[lostincalifornia]

5. Yes

[Jackpine Radical]

6. Bobby was an interesting character in a lot of ways.

In the 1950s, Robert Kennedy, like most Americans, despised communism. At the time, the Soviet Union was "Enemy #1." But RFK honed his anti-communism working side-by-side with the nation's leading red-baiter, Senator Joseph McCarthy of Wisconsin.

A Kennedy family friend, McCarthy vacationed with the clan on Cape Cod, and even dated two Kennedy sisters, Pat and Jean. When Bobby needed a job in 1952, after working on his brother Jack's successful Senate campaign, his father Joe Kennedy picked up the phone. By January, the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations had a new lawyer.

He would last barely six months, done in by a rivalry with McCarthy's chief deputy, Roy Cohn, as well as disenchantment with their overzealous style. But the months with McCarthy would follow Kennedy for the rest of his life, helping define the "Bad Bobby" that many liberals could never quite forget.

Though Kennedy had long since moved on, he found McCarthy's death in 1957 "very upsetting." In historian Ronald Steel's words, "for him the errant senator was a kindred spirit -- one engaged, as he was himself, in the struggle against evil."

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/rfk/sfeature/sf_enemies_01.html

[fredamae]

8. I learned something new today!

Thanks.

The Kennedy's are Why I became a Dem...tho still a kid and unable to vote until I was 21--I Supported and Voted For Dems Since 1959--until about 6 months ago...

[Riverman]

15. Catholic Bobby

Bobby was a very devout Catholic. He had a bunch of kids, like a good Catholic. I was raised Catholic from an East Coast Irish working class family, middle of five kids. Remember the night JFK was elected - our Irish-Italian (children and grand-children of immigrants) row house neighborhood was ecstatic, even though most adults were republicans(had to be to get the trash picked-up and cops and fire to respond). One of us was now elected President - as if we were now accepted as Americans.

May be that Bobby's purist Catholic beliefs aligned w/McCarty's anti-Communist campaign because they were doing God's work, vanquishing the evil doers. I also belief that Bobby later relied on that Catholic faith coming from more of a Christ-like view of doing good for the less fortunate. That likely also influenced JFK to a point, but JFK was more of a pragmatist and not necessarily was going to be constrained by religious dogma. After all he liked sex with attractive women, though married.

Certainly, the Kennedy's were a new threat to the established order and messed with the military-industrial complex that even Eisenhower warned about. If there was a JFK assassination conspiracy, his enemies that would plan, carry-out and cover up his murder, would have to be more likely to be from the military industrialist puppeteers class. After all, JFK was not all-in for Vietnam, LBJ apparently was and it destroyed his presidency and millions of lives.

[TBF]

7. The Kennedy family has always been status quo -

but Jack did rock the boat a bit. I don't believe the official story but it really could've been anyone. Could've been mafia related, could have been Hollywood related, more likely it was the Bush family who went after him. We may never know ...

[Jackpine Radical]

9. It's always been a sorta pet theory of mine that

the CIA/Mafia/Wall Street gang (a highly interconnected group of organizations) figured they had a handle on JFK through Old Joe, but after the old man had his stroke, Jack started getting off the leash; He didn't go along with Operation Northwoods*, he pulled the air cover off the Bay of Pigs invasion, and negotiated his way around the Cuban Missile Crisis instead of blowing the shit out of Russia, so they had to take him out.

Amazing how hot the Cuban issue was back in those days.

_____________________________________________
*For any unfamiliar with Northwoods, here's Wikipedia on the topic:

Operation Northwoods was a series of false flag proposals that originated within the United States government in 1962, but were rejected by the Kennedy administration.[2] The proposals called for the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), or other operatives, to commit perceived acts of terrorism in U.S. cities and elsewhere. These acts of terrorism were to be blamed on Cuba in order to create public support for a war against that nation, which had recently become communist under Fidel Castro.[3] One part of Operation Northwoods was to "develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington".

Operation Northwoods proposals included hijackings and bombings followed by the introduction of phony evidence that would implicate the Cuban government. It stated:

The desired resultant from the execution of this plan would be to place the United States in the apparent position of suffering defensible grievances from a rash and irresponsible government of Cuba and to develop an international image of a Cuban threat to peace in the Western Hemisphere.

Several other proposals were included within Operation Northwoods, including real or simulated actions against various U.S. military and civilian targets. The plan was drafted by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, signed by Chairman Lyman Lemnitzer and sent to the Secretary of Defense. Although part of the U.S. government's Cuban Project anti-communist initiative, Operation Northwoods was never officially accepted; it was authorized by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, but then rejected by President John F. Kennedy.

[TBF]

10. Yes. Allen Dulles

was pushed out by Kennedy & he was a close personal friend of Prescott Bush ...

A resource that spells out some of this: Family of Secrets: The Bush Dynasty, America's Invisible Government, and the Hidden History of the Last Fifty Years - by Russ Baker

[Jackpine Radical]

11. I'm sure we have that book lying around here somewhere.

I skimmed it a few years ago; I think my wife actually read it.

Happy Guy Fawkes Day.

[deutsey]

12. Stone seemed to be basing a lot of what he was saying

on JFK and the Unspeakable by James Douglass (he even mentioned the book among other resources).

I've read a lof of the book and found the documentation Douglass provides fascinating and eye-opening. I wasn't entirely sold on his overall interpretation of the documentation, but I also didn't finish the book, so I should wait to comment on that until I get around to finishing it.

[ellenrr]

13. This book pretty much sets it out--

JFK’s Corporatist and Imperialist Presidency
Part 4: The Drug War, Civil Rights, Civil Liberties, and Space
by Burkely Hermann / November 4th, 2013

Part One of this series discussed the intricacies JFK’s presidential cabinet and a brief background of JFK. Then, Part Two addressed how the Kennedy Administration, while not being liked by the whole business community, pushed forward proposals that benefited international capital such as GATT and the Kennedy Tax Cuts. Part Three talked about how JFK’s anti-communist view of the world influenced his support for right-wing dictators, allowing assassinations and much more. The final installment of this series, Part Four, will conclude by talking about how JFK dealt with social issues such as civil rights, civil liberties and much more.

http://dissidentvoice.org/2013/11/jfks-corporatist-and-imperialist-presidency-3/

I was 13 when JFK was elected, and I was enthralled - Camelot, pretty wife, cute baby, etc...I was 13. I grew up. Any historical exploration will show that JFK was a politician like every other politician.

[socialist_n_TN]

14. Your last sentence is kind of my take on it ellen...

He was a bourgeois politician and came from a ruling class background in addition to that. He had some pretty good ideas, but overall he was conservative, even for Democrats of that time. IOW, he was not really even a "liberal" icon. Far to the right of FDR.

Who really knows what would have happened had he been able to finish his term, but a lot of JFK's so called "liberalism" came from selective memories AFTER he was killed, whoever killed him.

[darkjournalist]

16. Startling New JFK Documentary

Kennedy was definitely removed by powerful forces: Startling new JFK Documentary:

[Omaha Steve]

17. The Peace Corp, integrating the US Government, Cuban Missile Crisis

Example of integration would be Mr NLRB: http://www.law.du.edu/jenkins/Chapter7.htm


Howard Jenkins, Jr. with President Lyndon Johnson

Jenkins was appointed to the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) in 1963 by the Democratic President Kennedy despite his life-long affiliation with the Republican party. His appointment coincided with the landmark civil rights legislation proposed by President John F. Kennedy, which was supported by civil rights organizations and their historic march on Washington, D.C., in 1963. The day after the historic march, Howard Jenkins, Jr., was sworn in as a member of the NLRB.

Out of respect for Dr. Martin Luther King and the civil rights march on Washington, Jenkins postponed his swearing-in ceremony until August 29, 1963. During his acceptance speech, Jenkins said, “I know that it has not escaped your attention that I am a Negro. I am conscious of the inter-relationship between the problems of the Negro in the work force and the myriad of problems of our industrial economy.” He confirmed that much of what was said and done in the past is equally relevant in the present.

Early in his tenure at the NLRB, Jenkins left no doubt that his voice would be remembered as one of those brave individuals who spoke out unflinchingly for the equality of all Americans. Shortly after his appointment to the Board, Jenkins addressed the Urban League of Kansas City. He described the plight of African American workers during that time:
I hold the conviction that no lasting solution is to be found in the many faceted racial problem in the United States unless provision is made for rescuing the masses of Negroes from economic oblivion to which they are otherwise consigned in this age of automation.

Much more at link.