Music Appreciation
Related: About this forumEver noticed this famous Zeppelin song is reminiscent of a famous earlier Doobie Brothers Song?
Trampled Underfoot from Physical Graffiti (from 1975 though it's known to have a lot of songs written for past albums on it, like Houses of the Holy)
Slow Train Running (1973)
It's not just the constant repetition of the word love ... the relation has a deeper music theory component.
And it's not in the same key, not quite that simple ... so what music nerd can explain why they sound similar?
Rachel M at 6 pm
(116 posts)A lot of similarities
Diamond_Dog
(32,096 posts)But Im not sure how to describe it.
Kind of like the same guitar riff played throughout both songs in the background? Is that the correct term?
Pretty good observation - Ive heard both songs numerous times but never put them together like that.
Hugh_Lebowski
(33,643 posts)Full disclosure, Mandy's the one who made the connection as we were listening to it just now. She has a lot more theory knowledge than I do, and knows her classic rock
CincyDem
(6,390 posts)The vocal part from Plant is what you should sing to someone if you said whats that doobies song, the one that goes
Theoretically, iirc, long train runnin is a chord progression that the top notes are a half step change. I think its a d-minor7 (a top) to a g-minor7 (Bb top). That might be the progression under plants vocals too, albeit with a different rhythm pattern.
Thats reaching back 35 years but I think its why youre hearing the two the same.
Hugh_Lebowski
(33,643 posts)Besides certain lyrics and cadences in the vocals, Long Train is B flat major and Trampled is G minor ... which are two very closely-related but not identical key signatures (varying only on where you start the progression).
So says my lady anyway
CincyDem
(6,390 posts)A Bb maj9 and a Gm sus9 can be the same 4 notes (C D F A). Same with a Bb6 vs a Gm7 (D F G Bb). Bass player drives the major minor feeling depending on his patterns and where they resolve.
Never thought much about what key the song is but yeah, I can hear Johnston and Page playing pretty much the same chords/position with the songs being in those two keys.
Cool.
Silent Type
(2,976 posts)Hugh_Lebowski
(33,643 posts)Page and Jonesy knew ALL the chords, all the possible phrasings of those chords, how to play them in any octave, and consistently came up with inventive ways to put them together.
Claiming Zeps music is all simplistic is just wrong. Some songs, yes. But there were complex pieces they did. Song Remains the Same, The Rain Song and The Rover jump to mind offhand.
And is Achilles Last Stand ... 3 chords throughout?
Doesn't appear so to me ... https://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/tab/led-zeppelin/achilles-last-stand-chords-1971325
Pretty sure that's A-G in one song. Just saying.
Not saying they ever 'achieved' the heights of wankery like Close to the Edge (a song I do love) or Steely Dan or King Crimson ... but if they'd wanted to be a prog-rock band I have no doubt they could've been one.
And I don't care want anyone says, Bonham was a creative genius behind the kit. He makes so many of their songs what they are. They were a case of the sum being much greater than the parts.
A lot of The Who, Rolling Stones and Pink Floyd's most famous songs are way simpler I must also point out.
CincyDem
(6,390 posts)Kashmir
Tell me thats simplistic, go ahead. I dare ya. I double dare ya.
3 chords. Comon man.
But
I aint gonna stand up for Townsend but ya didnt have to take a swing at Richards or Gilmore to make the point. Lol.
Hugh_Lebowski
(33,643 posts)Dave's leads are another story altogether, of course.
Stones also have a lot of 3 or 4 chord songs as well.
I'm saying Zeppelin is no more limited in this regard than other favorite artists.
The Unmitigated Gall
(3,835 posts)How many guitar tunings Page had. I still like to tune my guitar to The Rain Song DGCGCD. Just strumming the open strings sounds magical.
TeamProg
(6,261 posts)borrowed feel, cadence, beat.
Its only rock and roll.
BlueTsunami2018
(3,503 posts)Trampled Underfoot is modeled after Stevie Wonders Superstition.
CincyDem
(6,390 posts)ProfessorGAC
(65,213 posts)I think you're hearing things!
There not just in a different key, Long Train is accented on the 1 & 4, while Trampled is on the 2 & 4.
As to the melodic similarity, there are only 6 notes that define a melody. At the end of every phrase on the Doobie's song, he goes up. Plant doesn't.
Given there's only the 6 notes, it's easy to find melodic similarities then separate by details like timing & phrasing.
I hear a LOT of differences in phrasing.
There is far more different than the same.