I don't even know where to start with this. It's disgusting.

[AndyS]

So I'm searching the net for rumors and news on the Canon R7 camera. The guy who started and owns the website Canonrumors.com signed off today and is selling the site because:

I don’t care if anyone comes at me, I’m a big boy and very few of you would ever say it to my face, so I generally don’t care about the cowards and fanboys.

However, yesterday they came at my children and my wife. They came at my family….. little fanboys of certain YouTubers that have obviously been raised horribly. What was in my inbox I won’t even show my wife. I’m tearing up writing this with absolute disgust for how horrible people are becoming. All of this is created by the personalities (I refuse to call them creators), they feed off of it, they profit off of it and they don’t care.

I have over the years had to deal with blowback from things said on OTHER websites and on YouTube channels. Yesterday was the tipping point. There are so many liars, grifters, and generally awful people polluting this niche little industry.

What the everlovin' fuck people?? This kind of vitriol over a website catering to photo hobbyists?

He's selling the site and moving on but for Christ's sake what is happening to us?

Shout out to Earl G--if some guy on a camera website gets this kind of grief what must you be dealing with?? I sure hope you can deal with it 'cause DU isn't just a discussion board, it's family for a whole lot of us.

[Grumpy Old Guy]

1. I agree.

People are idiots! This is really disgusting.

[GopherGal]

9. And the 2016 Election was taken as permission to show it.

It used to be:
What evil lurks in the heart of man? The Shadow Knows.

But not anymore. Being such a crass boil on the butt of humanity and still being elected president gave "permission" to let those a-hole flags fly.

[Tommymac]

11. They were showing it way before that. 2012. 2008. 2004. 2000. 1996. 1992. Thank Rush & Newt.

In the early 1990's Rush and Newt popularized the hateful strategy of tearing down your opponent with insults, not issues.

The Bush's, Cheney's, Rummies, and others of that ilk also played a big part in fostering the environment to accept such rancid acts.

[Rebl2]

18. Absolutely true!

[llmart]

50. +1000

So spot on. This didn't just start with trump. The hate that was shown towards the Clintons was almost from the start. I could never understand just what it was that both of them did that made some lowlifes just hate them with a red hot passion. It just got worse after that.

[SouthernDem4ever]

54. Rush Bimbo on the radio got all the knuckledraggers riled up to hate the clintons

and anyone in the democratic party in general. Then a bunch of good-for-nothing clones popped up all over the radio adding fuel to the fire. Now we have Joe Rogan, Steve Bannon and a myriad of other racist, homophobic, misogynistic wierdos coming from the parts of America that REALLY SUCK!

[soldierant]

53. Back in the day when "the Shadow knew"

they had to worry about their reputations. Today they don't. Because the reputations they have are no longer considered evil by too many people.

Of course, that came with a price. I remember my mother living in fear during my teens (late 50's theough early 60's) - fear that everything she ot I did would become a part of our "permanent rocord." And for too many good people, that did happen.

But the pendulum has now w=swung much, much too far the other way.

[wnylib]

55. Don't forget Karl Rove.

[2naSalit]

2. K&R!

It was people being horrid, as tourists, that drove me from my NPS job. A job that was hard to get. It's been normalized and we need to change it somehow.

[Walleye]

3. That's right. Like a family we can disagree but we still love each other. Hatred sucks

[DeeNice]

4. Wow. He should have named the personalities but I understand why he didn't.

He's not clear exactly what went down, but he should investigate whether he could sue.

[onecaliberal]

5. Hate is a very powerful drug.

[appalachiablue]

28. +1

[KS Toronado]

30. +2

[PJMcK]

6. Nice hat-tip to EarlG

Let's not forget Elad. They've done a terrific job running this site since they took it over from Skinner, who deserves a hat-tip, too, even though he's long gone.

[AndyS]

7. Yes, I don't mention the ones that make this happen behind the scenes often enough.

Everybody that contributes to the everyday operations of this wonderful meeting place, water cooler, support group and family.

[Chicagogrl1]

49. Could not agree more!!!

[CrispyQ]

8. We are losing touch with the concept of the common good.

The ability to post anonymously on the internet has brought out the worst in a lot of people. They can be mean & nasty & not be held accountable for the harm they cause or the damage they do.

I have a close friend who was seriously maligned on internet sites where people can leave feedback/reviews about local businesses. It took three years to track down who was posting the hateful lies & it turned out to be someone who was pissed off at her daughter. My friend gave a lot of financial help to her adult children & this person saw it as a way to strike back at the daughter. The woman was arrested & got a couple of years probation. My friend lost almost half her business in those three years.

[c-rational]

10. +1

[CaptainTruth]

20. This is why I post political comments using anonymous screen names.

I own my own business & I don't want my political comments to hurt my business.

[drray23]

48. of course also make sure you use a separate email for registration

not one you commonly use for everyday stuff or it could be possible to correlate the two and id you.

[MLAA]

12. AndyS, I am so sorry you have to deal with this crap.

All I can think to say is how miserable, insecure, minuscule-minded these assholes must be to spread their vitriol on a hobbyist website. ThNk goodness we are not them.

[ancianita]

13. It's a kind of online terrorism by corporations who want to shove out the little guy so they can

take over online markets. Corporations are psychopathic entities that normalize "free market" competition, as they did in the centuries they dominated the world with slavery and all things cotton.

He could hire a lawyer to hire digital investigators who might be able to get the ISP addresses of originators, because this is qualifies as life threatening. Or at least intimidation and assault.

[ancianita]

15. Maybe he should call the FBI, too.

[StarryNite]

27. If there were threats he should definitely call the FBI.

[2Gingersnaps]

14. At times I am embarrassed by how hardened the last 5 years have made me.

But, I knew from growing up in foster care after my parents died how truly awful "good Christian people" can be. I just did not know how prevalent that was and how many of them there were. I wish I still didn't. Ignorant and mean is no way to go through life. And seriously, I refuse to become conditioned to it. I will isolate first.

[ToxMarz]

16. Some backstory I came across

[AndyS]

19. Thanks. nt

[MiHale]

17. Agreed. Some people are devolving back to the primordial ooze .

[NQAS]

21. This is awful

I've been the target of cyber bullying. Like this guy, a niche business in a nice industry, nothing political. The vileness was shocking. And there's no recourse. You either have to wait it out or, like this guy has done, just say fuck it and throw in the towel.

Your question is crucial, AndyS. What is happening to us. What have we become? And all this over a camera?

[I_UndergroundPanther]

51. Its not us

Its the toxic people with narcissistic personalities who are doing this. And somehow decent people cant find a way to punish or cant push them back into thier rancid hidey holes.

[SergeStorms]

22. DU used to have the "Hate Mail Bag"....

they showed some of the more humorous hate mail they received, and some of the most vitriolic as well (censored, of course).

I imagine the level of hate has grown as quickly as Trump's waistline though. They probably wouldn't be too funny anymore. 😐

[paulkienitz]

23. Cameras incentivize very strong brand attachment

because you have to invest thousands of bucks into a system that locks you in with compatibility, and switching brands is very expensive. So all the fanboy toxicity you find anywhere else gets extra intense because people really don't want to admit they picked the wrong horse, because if they do it'll cost them a big wad of cash.

This also incentivizes the companies themselves to nurture and cater to loyal fans. Companies that treat everything as disposable, like Sony, fail at earning the decades-long loyalty that can be had.

It probably doesn't help that the whole camera industry is now shrinking and financially weak and many companies are in a frail state, because the cameras themselves improved so fast that they've run out of ways to make next year's model better than last year's, so most people aren't replacing the old cameras they've got. (Mine is from 2013.) So people are worried they may have bought into a brand that not only might turn out not as good, but might not even survive. All of this anxiety can help drive additional toxicity to compensate.

So I'm not surprised that cameras are where this comes out.

[AndyS]

29. I have to own that myself. I'm a fanboy.

I have been critical of other manufacturer's marketing but never of the product or people behind it.

There is an influencer on youtube that has a real animosity for the format of MY brand. I gave up on him when he exposed himself (no pun intended) by not knowing what an f stop is. Something so basic to the craft and he somehow didn't know what it is?? But because he is so influential all the other talking heads ran with it devising all sorts of tests and experiments using his nonsense as a basis.

I simply don't watch his vids, avoid them to the extreme. Vote with my clicks as it were. I hope that's the right response. Don't utter his name, don't dignify it with a view. But for God's sake don't threaten him or his family.

[paulkienitz]

36. there's another big influencer who loves to punch down on my minor brand

I use a camera brand that isn't very popular anymore, and has intentionally chosen to go against certain trends, and there are widely viewed narcissistic buttheads who love to mock and denigrate it.

[druidity33]

38. I learned on a Pentax K1000...

and am still a Pentax user. I've always loved the brand... way more bang for the buck than the "top 2". All of my DSLRs have been able to accept a K mount or M42 mount, so i have been able to use my old lenses while i work up to the more expensive digital ones. I have a BA in Photo, but have never been a pro. I worked in a camera store for years (before they all closed up) and had the opportunity to switch brands but chose not to. I'm not a fanboy, but i am loyal out of necessity.

[AndyS]

41. Where did you get your BA? I got my MS at what is now Texas A&M Commerce

in Texas. A BA as well. That was in the film days so much of it doesn't translate but lighting and seeing is the same in any technology!

[druidity33]

47. I also studied film...

graduated from SUNY Buffalo. Planned many things that didn't pan out. I take photos for fun only nowadays, though my kit has been modernized... i use photographing the kids as an excuse for that.

[paulkienitz]

44. I also had a K1000, and learned how to work an enlarger and developing fluids

Some years later I bought an OM film setup (no fancy lenses), then when I went digital it was a Pentax K10D, one of the first rugged waterproof DSLRs, a model that set the direction of the brand from then on, and didn't cost too much. As my shooting is almost all outdoors, it was the best fit. So K-mount is still my system.

[druidity33]

46. I studied photo as digital

was emerging. Nikon had just put out their flagship 2.1 MP $2,000 DSLR body and everyone i knew was jumping in ('92-'94). But i was a darkroom hound and loved seeing the images emerge evolve etc. I still thought i'd be a Printer for some other Photographer and try my hand at exhibiting my own Art Photography as well. As it turns out i made more money as a leatherworker and cook. My K1000 was stolen in England and i ended up with a P3n (modern replacement for the K1000 really). I also went with the K10D as my first DSLR. I sold that camera last year with a couple of lenses for $200. I now have a K70... but there are days i miss the heft of the K10... and its simpler features. I have a 10-17mm now though after many years of longing and i couldn't be more pleased.

[Gato Moteado]

59. paulkienitz: i'm guessing you're using pentax and you're talking about....

....the fro.

i know jared is unfairly critical of pentax. for whatever reason, pentax just doesn't have the marketing savvy to compete with the other old, well known names, but from what i've seen, their cameras and lenses are great.

i want all the old camera manufacturers to survive and prosper because the more competition there is, the faster the innovations come and the cheaper everything is.

[paulkienitz]

60. the truth is, all the brands make good gear

Unlike how things were a decade ago, now any one of the camera systems is about equally capable of taking a good picture. You kind of have to choose by what areas their lens offerings emphasize as a strength (like, you probably don't want to use Fujifilm to shoot birds), and secondarily by the ergonomics of the body design at your pricepoint.

Yeah, you recognize the fro.

[Gato Moteado]

63. actually, for image quality, i think fuji might be ahead of the pack....

...most people testing equipment can't tell the diff between images made with fuji APS-C cameras and images made with pro full frame gear from other manufacturers. and with birding, APS-C gives you the added "reach" from your telephoto lenses that you need for wildlife and birds. i know they make a nice 100-400mm zoom, but i don't think fuji has the faster prime telephotos that nikon has. still, the bird photos i've seen come from fuji gear are amazing. a gallery from the juza community shot on fuji bodies with their 100-400mm zoom starts at the bottom of this linked page...imagine what professional shooters would produce:

https://www.juzaphoto.com/recensione.php?l=en&t=fujifilm_100-400wr

but, yeah, comparably priced gear between one manufacturer and the next will be of similar quality. i just don't want to see the number of top camera companies whittled down to one or two, because then we will all suffer.

[paulkienitz]

65. in my experience, for serious bird shooting, zoom lenses won't do

There's nothing like a tiny fast-moving bird to push every part of your gear to its utmost, and under those conditions there's no substitute for a large prime. I've tried a few long zooms and they've all fallen short in some way or other. As far as my experience goes, a 300mm prime beats a 500mm zoom.

[Gato Moteado]

66. i prefer primes for every kind of shooting...

...and, similar to you, my favorite for wildlife is the nikkor 300mm f/4 PF.....but i don't shoot many birds in flight. that said, the nikkor200-500mm f/5.6 zoom (constant f/5.6), which i also have, is used by a lot of birders i know, with the D500, for shooting birds in flight. i also see people in forums on FB using the sony 200-600mm zoom with an array of sony bodies, shooting birds in flight as well. the newer sony, nikon and canon mirrorless bodies have super fast and accurate AF and insane frame rates (20FPS or more), so i think there aren't as many weak links for action shooting as there once were.

my thing is that i like to get in as close as possible to use the super light-weight nikkor 300mm f/4....it's an amazingly sharp lens. i bought the 500mm f/5.6 PF prime a year ago and still haven't had the chance to really test it out properly.

the only nikon zoom i own is the 200-500mm nikkor and i'll probably sell it. my favorite lenses are the 50mm f/1.8, 85mm f/1.8, 105 f/2.8 micro, 300mm f/4 PF and, hopefully, the 500mm will prove to be as great as the 300mm.

for my lumix body, my faves are the 42.5mm f/1.7, olympus 75mm f/1.8 and the olympus 60mm f/2.8 macro.

[paulkienitz]

67. that 500/5.6 PF definitely provokes some envy...

If someday I have to switch to Z mount or something because Pentax goes bust, that's the kind of lens I'd be hoping I can afford.

[Gato Moteado]

68. well, i hope pentax hangs in there.....

...the industry needs strong competition to keep driving the tech.

now i want to see nikon pump out the 600mm PF and the 800mm PF!

[Warpy]

24. One word: COMPLAIN

All sites have managers/moderators somewhere on the food chain. Direct threats to family members, esoecuakkt cgukdren, need to be shared with the local cops and the FBI and I'd even consider making a report to the state Attorney General's office. If you have web addresses, send them to abuse@web address. Most of these poorly raised fanboys/girls aren't smart enough to spoof them.

As for what's happening to us, this might be one factor: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8586167/ Sorry for the heavy Medicalese, the bottom line is that a statistical link between surviving Covid and showing increased aggression has been showing up in the literature for over a year. So much for the vaunted natural immunity being superior.

We just have to make them turn on each other (they will, you know) and hope by the time they finish tearing each other apart over less than perfect orthodoxy, the effect wears off.

(I did notice Covid in 2020 made me a little grouchier than usual but I don't think anyone else could tell)

[StClone]

31. ...statistical link between surviving Covid and showing increased aggression...

Yes.

Along with it is the "lockdown psychosis," isolationism due to niches created by the internet, gamers, Social Media, foreign provocateurs...on and on. It is a history of inactivity (causing poor mental capacity), bad diet, manipulation, and so much political freakouts pushed by big moneyed elites' operatives to win the war to satisfy whatever whim they have.

I don't see this getting better with Covid survivors exhibiting damaged psyches as a result of changed brains and the continued push by those wanting control-ending in an even worse place. Being optimistic is becoming difficult.

[Warpy]

32. I/m the original pessimist

Optimists are always getting disappointed. I get pleasantly surprised.

However, I do see the Covid effect diminishing over time, the way that other aftereffects like loss of taste and smell have tended to in the majority of cases.

Oh, they'll still be assholes. They will just lack the motivation to follow through on their assholery in a violent or even confrontational manner.

If not, we'll be living through something akin to the Irish Troubles, raging assholes doing just enough damage to keep us perpetually on edge.

[paulkienitz]

45. that might explain a lot of the bad public behavior we're seeing with airlines and such

The covidiots started out dumb enough to not want masks or vaccines, then got brain damage on top of that, which destroyed their impulse control.

[StrictlyRockers]

25. EarlG and the entire Admin/Moderation team deserve respect.

This site is awesome, and many of us treasure it for what it is. They deal with our day to day squabbles and keep everything running smoothly behind the scenes. They don't get enough credit. Stories like this really put everything in perspective.

[FakeNoose]

26. All I can guess is maybe it's a RW Twitter or Youtube group?

Maybe this guy was incautious about his ID and some evil RW hackers linked up his photography website with some political things he posted elsewhere? I don't believe they would target a photography website, but maybe it was linked up to political things he said on another site. It's very possible that could have happened, and it's why we all need to be careful about maintaining privacy even here on DU where we're relatively safe.

[GoneOffShore]

33. I left a photography group because there were some serious RWWhackos involved.

They couldn't leave the politics out, especially with street photography, which is primarily my thing.

[AndyS]

34. Come on over, you'll find it welcome here. We don't talk politics and we all agree! nt

[GoneOffShore]

35. I used to post stuff here, but then when Photobucket started it's nonsense, I stopped.

I now do Instagram because it allows me to crosspost on FB(When I'm not blocked for calling out Nazi's).

I suppose I could use Google Photos to post here.

[AndyS]

37. I use imgur and there are other free sites that others here use.nt

[GoneOffShore]

39. I'll investigate it. Thanks.

[KT2000]

40. Happened to a site for knitting

The internet is a platform for everything - especially the mentally unbalanced who cannot act out in real life.

[HappyCynic]

42. It always saddens me

It always saddens me when I hear things like this. The internet is great but it has also emboldened peddlers of bigotry, misogyny, racism, and all forms of hate. And too often, this hate spills over into places which have no relation to insults, slurs, threats, and other vile behaviour.
I have nothing but respect for EarlG and anyone else who has to put up with this. I work in the computer gaming industry and while I'm not part of the customer support team, I've seen some of the crap they've had to deal with. And that's not even for anything close to political. I can't imagine how many orders of magnitude worse it is for EarlG and crew, as well as anyone else who's in a similar position or even just running their own site or has to deal with hate disguised as "reviews".

[William769]

43. You don't know the fucking half of it.

I am speaking from experience.

I had a website supporting Hillay Clinton during the 2016 Presidential primary.

What joy!

[murielm99]

52. Hello, William!

I have not seen much of you lately.

Good to see you now.

[William769]

62. I don't post near as much as I used to

but I show up on occasion.

I will try to pop in at least once a day.

[calimary]

58. I remember that. I went there and hung out.

It was a welcome haven during a time I won’t bother detailing.

Never got a chance to thank you. Til now.

[William769]

61. You're welcome

I enjoyed your company. We had a bunch of great people on that site.

[calimary]

64. Sometimes it felt like a cyber life raft.

During a most contentious time.

[AngryOldDem]

56. Civility is dead.

The current climate of discourse has made too many people Keyboard Kommandos.

The past few years have made it OK, and even admirable, to be an asshole.

[Mz Pip]

69. A pandemic of hatefulness.

People have gone crazy over the most minor of things. I hope this guy reported the threats to law enforcement.

I’ve noticed a huge increase in trolls on Facebook hobby pages. Hard to know of they’re paid disrupters or just disgruntled unhappy people with too much free time. It’s terribly disturbing to see this much hatred bubbling up.

I try to be kind and decent in my life and think twice before I let my anger take over.

Mz Pip