Game of Thrones final episode.

[Blue_true]

I must admit that I have paid little to no attention to the series. Haven't watched 15 minutes of it total. But the daily write ups and speculation on what happens next on newsfeed turned out to be hard to avoid. So, for the last couple of weeks I have been reading some of the recounts, speculation. From the summary of the last show I found out that Danerys went fullblown murderous psycho and is likely to take a sword in the gut a few times during the coming episode, with Arya Stark doing the honors.

But my feeling? I would not put money on a happy ending where good triumphs over evil (or evil driven by a predisposition toward insanity as is speculated with Danerys). Modern movie show-runners seem to really get the line between good and evil muddled. Hell, Arya Stark may slip in to kill Danerys, have a chat with her and kill everyone else to put Danerys on the Iron Throne. That is how I view the modern show-writing, like a large segment of society, unable to distinguish between good and evil.

For those that have truly followed the series, what is your take on what happens Sunday?

[bluedigger]

1. A Lannister always pays his debts.

[Blue_true]

2. What does that mean? I did not follow the series. Thanks. nt

[Chemisse]

3. Really? You think Tyrion will do the honors?

Ayra was made for this job.

[bluedigger]

6. Arya will kill (or steal) the dragon.

Tyrion takes Khaleesi.

[Boomer]

5. I don't expect a happy ending

I'm not even sure I'd want one for this series. The show has always been about power and the abuse of power.

Several character have been deeply invested in ending that cycle of abuse. One of them, Varys, has already given his life for that cause. Danerys, who wanted to break chains, is going mad and is now perpetrating the very abuses she once deplored. That leaves Tyrion, a clever and insightful man masquerading as a wanton drunkard (although the clever part has been seriously eroded by bad writing for the past few seasons). He's the one voice left passionately championing the cause of compassion and justice.

There really are only two resolutions that would make sense for the series, but the writing has been so bad this season that I'm not certain we'll get either one. We either see that the cycle can't be broken -- at least not this turn of the wheel -- or someone truly remarkable breaks it and becomes a just ruler. Unfortunately, there aren't any likely candidates for that position now that Dany has gone postal with her dragon. Jon Snow is dumb as a rock, Sansa is one bright cookie, but I suspect she would become a version of Cersei if she ascends the throne, and I'm not sure anyone would follow Tyrion, even though he is probably the most qualified of all of them. He seems more comfortable as a Hand to the ruler, than as a ruler himself.

If that savior turns out to be the snorefest known as The Three-eyed Raven, I give up on the series.

tl:dr - I have no clue how anyone could possibly wrap this up in a satisfying manner.

[Blue_true]

8. What is your insight on the bad show writing?

I read one analysis a couple of nights ago that implied that the show runners no longer had the books as a guide, so they became clueless.

I have seen problems with a lot of popular movies of recent vintage. In classic movie writing the hero develops and you can see that person moving from a weaker person to a person strong enough to bring about good. Using an analogy as a man, modern show-runners leave me with the sense of kissing a beautiful woman through an inch of plexiglas, I see something happening but there is no meaning and no satisfaction.

As I took a little time each night this week to read GOT summaries and speculations on what happens next, I got the distinct feeling of wanting a good character to show up out of the blue to bring about a good ending. But I don't think there is the imagination in the show writing to develop that character over one episode to show that he or she was present all along, but not noticed.

When I read the summary on Cersei's end, I do think the show-runners got that decently right. One of the best ends to a vile character is to show that person as pathetic, afraid and remorseful at then end, silently wishing that he or she had made different more noble choices throughout life.

[Boomer]

10. Except Cersei was NEVER pathetic

The ending scenes for Cersei were not only dramatically weak, a dead spot in the narrative, but also completely out of character for the person she's been for 7 years.

Cersei was unbendingly fierce. I just don't find her ending in the least persuasive -- that she would stand by passively as Dany both attacked her armies, then razed the city. Cersei always had backup plans and double-crosses and she spit in the face of adversity.

I can think of several endings that would have been more in character, and more fitting, for the dangerous adversary she was supposed to be. I expected Jaime, for instance, to be the one man who could get close enough to Cersei to kill her, in hopes of ending the standoff that would cost King's Landing its entire populace. Or to have Dany fly right up to Cersei's balcony and fry her on the spot.

Clutching Jaime and sobbing as a ton of rocks fell on them? Meh.

[Blue_true]

13. You don't think Cersei's ending had a lot of pathos in it.

From the little that I read in summaries of episodes, she was ruthless and cunning. Yet at the end all she could think about was that the baby inside her would meet a horrible death that she would not have wished for it. She actually thought about something besides herself and her desires. To me, that is classic pathos, make a viewer or reader feel a bit of sorrow for a character that does not deserve sorrow. I think that moment was clever by the writers.

Yes, it would have been more dramatic if Danerys had ridden the dragon to Cersei's balcony then jumped off the dragon onto the balcony to fight Cersei, killing Cersei in the end, but the pathos twist seemed better as a philosophical warning to evil people, IMO - that a person must watch what they are, else in a moment they will be stripped of everything and only then realize what was most important to them all along, but that moment of light would come too late.

[Boomer]

17. Catch up comments

To jump back a post, there were two major problems for this season: lack of time and lack of material.

The showrunners are ahead of the books and now we can see just how reliant they were on Martin's writing. The scripts flattened out noticeably, without the clever twists and turns provided by the author. Knowing the major plot points that Martin is planning (which I've heard that he communicated to them) is not the same as telling a story. The devil is in the details. The showrunners were excellent at summarizing the best parts of the books, paring away details but retaining essential turning points, but not so good at coming up with that depth on their own. It's an entirely different skill set or talent, and they didn't transition gracefully.

Meanwhile, since you haven't seen the series, your arguments about Cersei are weakened by a lack of knowledge of where she's been and who she is. Cersei has been implacably villainous, yet she reached a point a few seasons back that actually won that sympathy from viewers. And she did it with incredible backbone. Her Walk of Shame is an iconic event in the series, and despite all her despicable deeds, it was impossible not to be moved by the attempts to break her spirit and her ability to maintain her dignity in the face of screaming mobs -- naked, vulnerable, but unbowed.

Having seen her emerge from that crucible even more hardened than before (which is saying a great deal), the final scenes of her life in Episode 5 just don't ring true. And the whole pregnancy thing was... weird. Given the time that passed since she first announced her pregnancy, she should have been the size of a blimp by the time she died. I still wonder if the pregnancy was another of Cersei's tricks, but the showrunners forgot to let the audience in on her subterfuge.

And finally, having a sword fight between Dany and Cersei... no offensive, but that's kinda ridiculous. Dany has a dragon. You don't jump off the dragon to kill your enemy, you just roast them on the spot.

[Blue_true]

18. A sword fight would be much more dramatic. nt

[Red State Prisoner]

22. I would disagree with you regarding the writers inability to write without the books.

Season 5 was the last one with a book for the screenwriters to adapt a screenplay off of. Keeping this in mind, both season 6 and 7 were critically acclaimed. They were solid, edge of your seat seasons that moved the story along quite well. My chief complaint about this season is their seemingly hell-bent determination to tell the story in only 6 episodes. It felt rushed and in my humble opinion, did a great disservice to an otherwise solid storyline.

[mr_lebowski]

9. My guess is that Dany dies (Arya will kill Dany), and Jon goes to the Iron Throne as Drogon's master

But then declares that each of the 7 Kingdoms is to rule themselves (basically no more Iron Throne), but also work together as a Republic, where he acts as mediator (i.e. 'President'). Various characters of the show will become the leaders of various Kingdoms and Houses currently left without leaders, including those who were promised it like Gendry and Bronn. Arya will marry Gendry. Sansa gets the North. Tyrion will work for Sansa. Sam will become some sort of Grand Maester of the 7 Kingdoms. Davos will become adviser to Yara, who will lead the Ironborn.

That's the best I got in the way of a guess

[Downtown Hound]

7. I think Jon Snow will end up on the Iron Throne, but he will not want it.

But I think that will be the final message of the show; power is corrupting. And the only people who are truly good at wielding it are those who do not seek it. But it's not really a happy ending because while it will be good for the land, it will not be good for Jon himself.

Tyrion will like die at the hands of Daenerys or her army. He's my favorite character, but I think he's done for. Game of Thrones never lets the wrongs people do go unpunished. It may take awhile, but they get theirs eventually. And Tyrion will have to answer for his betrayal of Varys. It's sad, because he genuinely believed he was doing the right thing. But at the end of the day, the bottom line is it was the wrong decision. He backed the wrong horse. He was so desperate to believe in Daenerys that he was blinded to her power hungry instincts. Even though he meant well, the show will not let him live happily ever after after that. I do think and hope that they will give him a chance for redemption though. Like maybe he sacrifices himself to save the realm.

Arya Stark will kill Daenerys, fulfilling Melisandre's prophecy. And whatever machinations Varys put into place before his execution, they will ensure that Jon Snow's rightful claim to the throne is honored.

It will not be a happily ever after ending. But it won't be all bad either. That's my prediction.

[Boomer]

11. Tyrion didn't betray Varys

The episode was really rushed and the nuances of Tyrion's dilemma weren't given even a token scene of drama, but he didn't really have any choice.

Varys was trying to poison Dany. He got caught. When you try to poison your own ruler, you die. We never saw the details of how Tyrion learned of Varys' plan, but the assumption is that he probably wasn't the only one who knew, so his hands were tied.

Apparently these scenes were so rushed that a lot of people missed the poison plotline entirely (it consisted of just a few sentences of dialogue between Varys and little Martha). When Tyrion turns Varys in with "He betrayed you", he's not speaking of the conversations he had with Varys, he's referring to the attempt to poison Dany.

As for prophecies, they've pretty much abandoned any pretense of even remembering them. Cersei wasn't supposed to die under a bunch of rocks, but she did.

[Downtown Hound]

12. Varys was right to try and poison Daenerys

He was trying to protect the realm. He could see in her what Tyrion couldn't. I love Tyrion, he's always been my favorite character on the show. But he was wrong about Daenerys. She turned out to be no different than her father, except she succeeded where he failed.

[Boomer]

14. I agree, but that's not betrayal

No matter how right Varys was, if you get caught trying to poison your queen, you die. If Tyrion had been the only person to know that Varys was trying to poison Dany, then MAYBE I would agree that turning him in was a betrayal.

But the context was never shown. And in all likelihood it was kitchen staff/soldiers who discovered the poison attempt, which means there's no plausible deniability for Tyrion. As the queen's hand, he has to tell her what happened -- and Varys execution is pretty much a done deal, with or without Tyrion's approval.

[Chemisse]

15. You are right. I - and others I talked to - totally missed the poison plot.

Although I did hear Varys allude to something that would suggest killing her was on his mind.

I haven't been inclined to be critical, but why have an assassination plot if nobody knows about it?

[Boomer]

16. Because bad writing & screen-time priorities

The sketchy writing is my single biggest complaint about the final season. The showrunners were enamored of their big battles and turning King's Landing into smoking ruins. Screen time for character development and narrative bridges were cut to the bone. Continuity was sacrificed for visual spectacle.

[Blue_true]

19. One of my complaints about modern movie storytelling.

Is they substitute plot lines for hightech visuals, leaving voids. IMO, the key part of good moviemaking are the plot lines, when they are written and executed right, throwing on the hightech stuff as icing makes the movie or tv show even more spectacular.

[ecstatic]

20. Really disappointed. It's like the writers weren't even trying and simply

needed to finish out their contract.

[Blue_true]

21. They have to get on to the next Star Wars movie due out in 2023.

James Patterson writes so fast that his pens smoke. And he writes well. Maybe movie makers should hire him, but I believe that would be expensive.