California
Related: About this forumOH, HELL TO THE FUCKING NO!!!!
Last edited Thu Jun 14, 2018, 07:18 AM - Edit history (1)
Initiative to break California into 3 states to go on November ballot(CNN)An initiative that would divide California into three separate states qualified Tuesday to appear on the ballot in November's general election.
Californians will vote whether to separate into three states: California, Northern California and Southern California -- subject to approval by US Congress.
The proposal by venture capitalist, Tim Draper to break up California in a campaign called "Cal 3," received more than 402,468 valid signatures -- surpassing the amount required by state law.
California Secretary of State Alex Padilla will certify the initiative as qualified for the November 6th ballot on June 28.
Draper has said that partitioning California into three states would allow regional communities to make better and more sensible decisions for their citizens to address the state's most pressing issues, including the school systems, high taxes, deteriorating infrastructure and strained government.
continues..
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/13/us/california-three-states-initiative-ballot/index.html
California has ALWAYS has been a bastion for liberals and a powerful State for Democrats.
We went a very strong blue a few years back, but all of that could change if this State is broken up into three smaller states and within a few years, Republicans could start to gain more power back if the voters break up this state.
Republicans could NEVER budge California as a whole, but break the state up into three parts, just allowing one part to turn red will have significant changes for this entire region in the near future.
THIS MUST NOT HAPPEN!
We must stay strong together or California and the Democratic party will weaken because of it. We have seen what the Republicans have done to this Nation. It could become far, far worse if California is broken up and Republicans take it over eventually!
DON'T ALLOW CALIFORNIA to turn RED! VOTE NO ON THE BREAK UP OF THIS STATE!
IF California allows this to pass, SO GOES THE REST OF THE COUNTRY.... mark my words!!
hlthe2b
(102,237 posts)Mister Ed
(5,930 posts)As did a Trump presidency.
With a little help from our Russian friends, preposterous things have been happening at the polls. Look for similar meddling and interference on this matter.
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)WE need to keep this state strong and whole, or you just lost a MAJOR democratic state...
liberal N proud
(60,334 posts)The integrity of out system has been so comprised, we may never fully trust elections again .
Glamrock
(11,799 posts)I thought you left? Glad to see ya back!
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)It sounds to me like another plan to Destroy this state, BECAUSE WE ARE SUCH a pain in the ASS to Republicans, and they WANT to turn this state Red... THE biggest, strongest BLUE state and so they get the idea to break us up!
THIS MUST NOT HAPPEN.
If this STATE EVER turned RED this country will be in HEAP OF SHIT. I am enjoying the freedom of legal weed, SO how legal would Cannabis be if Republicans turn this state Red in a few years?
whats that expression?
Divide and Conquer?
Republicans are NOT getting their grubby little fingers on THIS STATE, EVER...
THIS MUST NOT HAPPEN!
CALIFORNIANS MUST NOT VOTE FOR breaking this state up.. IF it happens you have just guaranteed years OF REPUBLICAN RULE in this country and we can all kiss our asses good bye.
Glamrock
(11,799 posts)And, I miss your posts girl....
hlthe2b
(102,237 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)a word and a half word in this case.
Cha
(297,196 posts)You should stick around. I took off for 5 months and came back when Douglas Jones won in Alabama.
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)I am so fed up with all that is happening with this administration, and every day its something new and worse. I keep hoping that Mueller will help save us, but nothing is guaranteed any longer.
Hell at this point if even Michael Avenatti had anything that could bring this President down, I would feel better.
I keep thinking about something I read here on DU, where Trump told Xi Jinping of China how he would like to consider being the first President in history to have a life time term, and having a Republican House, Senate and Supreme Court that would allow him to do that just that.. The only thing we have to rely upon is the very document that has kept this country together for over 200 years, is our US Constitution, which every official has sworn to protect and uphold.
Would our Military also be willing to turn a blind eye to someone who could very much become someone like a Kim Jong Un, or a Rodrigo Duterte, or a Valdimir Putin?
Or would the American people rise up against against a Tyrant or would we meekly slide off into the shadows and pretend nothing has happened?
What ever happens, one thing for sure is, that Republicans will never be looked at in the same way ever again, historically. I hope we move beyond this some how and soon before this country is so devastated it will forget who we were to begin with.
BigmanPigman
(51,590 posts)There are already two California's, do they want 4? Since the early 1800s the part of CA in the US has been "Alta" CA and the part in Mexico is "Baja" CA. I think it has been working fine so far, why fix something if it isn't broken? This idea is ridiculous.
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)IT CAN NOT PASS, it must NOT FUCKING PASS!
BigmanPigman
(51,590 posts)A lot of things are on ballots but not all pass. I am not worried about this. It is a stupid idea.
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)Well guess what, never say never.. WE Said Arnold Schwarzenegger would never be GOVERNOR, ... we said RONALD REAGAN would never be Governor... ARE YOU SO SURE??
BigmanPigman
(51,590 posts)My family and friends can verify this. I just don't see it happening with CA...but that is only my two cents.
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)at Starbucks...and hey LIKE i said, we never thought Arnold would be governor yet it happened! Impossible they said!! Impossible Ronald Reagan would never be Governor or President... that's what 2 cents bought back than...
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)Californians don't always vote the way we think they will.
I look at 'Initiative and Referendum' with a great deal of skepticism.
There's a fine line between Democracy and Mob Rule. And that judicial line is becoming more conservative by the day.
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)Does anyone think things will be any different? Just get a bunch of Californians hooked on self interested issues, and we will lose sight of the entire ENCHILADA.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)that without counting California in 2016, the Dotard crushed Hillary in Electoral College voting and won the popular vote in the other 49 states. WON the popular vote!
California is a conservative TARGET and GOAL.
Given a chance, R's are relentless and tricky as can be.
Californians better stay woke in November.
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)and the rest of the nation too... imagine three MORE REPUBLICAN STATES... turning this country to shit!
jrthin
(4,835 posts)jalan48
(13,863 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)THAT someone is allowing this on the ballot so CALIFORNIANS CAN STUPIDLY GIVE AWAY THE ENTIRE STORE TO REPUBLICANS... IT is a ruse, a trick, a way to give Republicans an advantage ...over the rest of this country.,.
hell to the fucking NO!!!
jalan48
(13,863 posts)MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)MFM008
(19,808 posts)Glad to see you back...🤗
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)This MUST NOT STAND....
calikid
(584 posts)Welcome back, sorry it took this to bring you yui
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)a way that Republicans can turn this country into a shambles... destroy a major blue state, and turn it into three more Republican states is fucking wet dream for them.
ROB-ROX
(767 posts)They had paid people $3 for each signature to get this to pass. I also read that Russian money was behind this bizarre plot. Because California is democratic the GOP want rural conservative areas to be a state with conservative government representatives and senators. The plot is like a bad movie. Sing people vote this crazy idea hope enough think DOWN. This fake story that people want this to happen is just like the civil war again.
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)Destroy Blue California and add three more Republican states, and you have A republican rule for decades. I am going to email Kamala Harris and others, we need to jump on this shit.
spike91nz
(180 posts)Breaking it up would likely give the right at least another senator and maybe two. Breaking up the state would be a disaster and open the doors to Balkanization of the country.
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)if CALIFORNIA GOES Red EVENTUALLY? We would be complicit in Screwing up this Country for Centuries...under Republican rule. LET Democrats consider that...A generations of TRUMP like Presidents all because some one thought it was inconvenient to live in ONE large state.
sandensea
(21,627 posts)All this reminds me of my days in Orange County (in the '90s and Aughts), when I first remember hearing of this idea.
And what I heard confirms everything you pointed out: this is high (no pun intended) on Republicans' wish list.
The reasons mentioned most often were either a) racist ("We're nothing like L.A. and those places" ); or b) brazenly political ("This way I could have a Republican senator and governor" ).
My understanding is that the Assembly, and governor, would have to approve any such breakup. Is that right?
Great seeing you again, yuiyoshida. Please keep us updated!
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)pure and simple.
SunSeeker
(51,550 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)bodies :/
FrankTC
(210 posts)Keeping California as is means that Californians have as much clout in the US Senate as Wyoming and less than the great state of Dakota, which was divided into north and south and given twice as many senators. If California becomes three states, it will have six senators instead of two. It's entirely possible that one of the Californias will be red (South California?) and the others decisively blue. It's therefore possible that the three Californias will produce four senate seats for Democrats and two for Republicans -- a net gain of two Democrats in the US Senate. Along with new senators from Puerto Rico and the area formerly known as the District of Columbia (if they become states), the increased representation will make Democratic control more likely. Rural areas have too much power in the federal government in part because their citizens -- who lean much more Republican than people in real America -- elect more senators than they deserve. This disparity affects the Electoral College calculus also. One way to redress the unfairness is to create more blue states. And remember: As goes the Senate, so go the courts.
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)if the REPUBLICANS manipulate the voting, and gerrymander and do all the cheating shit they do, you JUST TURNED THIS COUNTRY red for VERY LONG FUCKING TIME. If YOu live in CA and you don't want to contribute to the down fall of this nation, than VOTE no.
Pope George Ringo II
(1,896 posts)Right now California has two reliably Democratic Senators and zero GOP, so it's a +2 for us. If that turns into four Democrats and two GOP, that puts us right back at +2. I don't think this is really a gain. If we go from 100 Senators to 104 Senators--putting Puerto Rico and D.C. aside for a moment--then it takes 53 votes for a majority instead of 51 so we're right back where we started. But it now takes 70 (69.3 rounded up) for a 2/3 majority instead of 67. and we only got two seats when the requirements went up by three so we're now in the hole. Puerto Rico and D.C. of course represent friendly Senators out of thin air and so are an absolute positive.
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)Keep This state WHOLE, KEEP IT BLUE!
Pope George Ringo II
(1,896 posts)In principle, I'd actually be okay with a split to provide better representation for people and give them better access to their Senators and Governors. As reality shakes out, comparing the generic ballot to how Republicans gerrymander, keeping California whole actually minimizes their ability to steal a few legislators.
IronLionZion
(45,433 posts)are how many of our fellow DUers naively support this gerrymandering. Of course they want to pack liberals into a smaller space. Conservatives live in those wide open rural areas and would get disproportionate representation for fewer people.
If they proposed drawing the lines in a way that each new state was centered around a major liberal city like San Fran and LA, then maybe.
This proposal is very bad for Democrats.
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)you JUST HANDED THE REPUBLICANS THEIR WET DREAM.
CousinIT
(9,241 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)if the Republicans were to break up California, how long would it take for him to HAve that dream and live it... WE WOULD BE FUCKED!
rurallib
(62,411 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)The Republicans are running everything, its only a matter of time before they fuck with this nation beyond repair, and let me tell you, if CALIFORNIA GOES...so goes the nation.
NBachers
(17,108 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)CALIFORNIANS must NOT vote to break up this state... or you have secured Republican rule for centuries to come.
dlk
(11,561 posts)Of course Republicans want to break it up and destroy it. It would be a grave mistake to assume this referendum wont pass. Remember the internet trolls and voting machine hackers that stole the presidency. Theyre still out there.
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)wanting to destroy this nation.
DAngelo136
(265 posts)Nobody's offering to split up Texas or any other red state. This is a "pig in a poke" kind of a deal. This jackass tried to offer to split California into 6 states before and failed. So now it's 3. This has to go down in flames and smoke.
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)The Republicans will be practically begging the Russians to come and help them run this country! PRESIDENT putin could be a reality, or maybe TRUMP FOR LIFE..,let that fucking sink in!
tazkcmo
(7,300 posts)I hope you're doing well in spite of the American crisis we are in. Stay strong.
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)Consider me an ASIAN paula Revere.
bucolic_frolic
(43,146 posts)if this passes. THis is total bullshit. Worst idea in 100 years.
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)its their wet dream to destroy one of a few Democratic states left. Ask people in Red States how it feels to be helpless against the idiots running their state and living next to ignorant Neighbors... now imagine a US under Republican rule for Centuries.
vercetti2021
(10,156 posts)Let's see how they would react to losing the 38 EV
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)its NOT just California, its the entire nation at stake ... centuries of Republican rule ... and maybe it will become no longer a Democracy.. TRumpsters want a dictatorship!!
pwb
(11,261 posts)According to the U.S. Constitution.....And that is never going to happen. They are a deep blue.
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)And Arnold and Ronnie Reagan were never going to Governors of California, ..look how that turned out.
And no, Congress can approve the three state split, and with a little bit of manipulation, some help from the RUSSIANS, hey we got a recipe for disaster.
pwb
(11,261 posts)Article 4 of the constitution is quit clear on this topic. But you are entitled to feel worried, me I think it's never gonna happen. Californians are smart and won't be divided by this rich asshole behind this stupid move. Peace.
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)than GET BACK TO ME.
bottomofthehill
(8,329 posts)38 to 46 Electoral College Votes
Nitram
(22,794 posts)Union. And, for political reasons, no Justice or Congressman in the North was going to raise objections.
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)CA's to turn RED someday, would be a Republican wet dream
Nitram
(22,794 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)PResident, right?
Nitram
(22,794 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)Break it up and its A CRAP SHOOT. Orange county is already RED enough, we don't need other parts of the State to lose to Republicans too, unless you want Republicans to control this state?
randr
(12,412 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)Republican Senators..
Wednesdays
(17,362 posts)Instead of something like 54 blue votes, it would become around 19 blue votes vs. 38 RED votes!
Sneederbunk
(14,290 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)just another way to destroy this nation.
mopinko
(70,090 posts)russian op. follow the money.
Wednesdays
(17,362 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)I am just sounding the alarm!
lark
(23,097 posts)I'd read before that Russia was strongly behind efforts to split California up or have them secede. Anything that bring the US closer to being "white" is what Russia wants as well as anything that weakens us.
bullwinkle428
(20,629 posts)secession movements currently taking place in both California and Texas.
lark
(23,097 posts)I just haven't seen any proof, other than the fact that they have the most to win from that move.
AllaN01Bear
(18,191 posts)they keep trying , tried this for years and i bet that this vulture capitalist is republican and wants to keep his monies . you cant take it with u.
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)WE have to fight with education, let people in this state know.
c-rational
(2,592 posts)Texin
(2,596 posts)They would be expected to pick up 4 senate seats and probably a majority of congressional seats.
I don't know anything about how the process would be following such a vote by California law, but it would require approval by congress in D.C. The rethugs there would be blissed out to ratify this with 2/3 vote if they believe it will increase their numbers. This alone should be single, overriding issue to get Dems to the polls in California in the fall. However, it will also increase rethug turnout, which could be a deciding factor in making challenges to congressional seats a problem for the Dems.
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)the fucking Russians.
0rganism
(23,945 posts)i would hope it gets roundly defeated for the piece of shit that it is, but it's apparently easy to convince some liberals that it's somehow a good idea so ... well... how's it polling?
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)What if in November, in California there was a proposition that From now on, ICE CREAM would be free in the State to anyone who wanted it... while on the surface its sounds fantastic, it would put people who make ICE CREAM out of business, cause they wouldn't make a dime on it, and no one even outside the state would be able to sell ice cream again, cause here its FREE, not only would it kill business here, but would kill iCE CREAM ever existing anywhere in the state,
Actions have their consequences, and no one in this state would ever eat it again, unless they went else where and paid for it.
0rganism
(23,945 posts)i suspect there are lots of free ice cream voters.
dubyadiprecession
(5,707 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)Russians involved in our Elections, Republicans gerrymandering districts, Not allowing POC to vote, and consider this...
RIGHT now as a FUll WHOLE STATE, we are BLUE... break us up, and you end up with three less powerful STATES, that thanks to Corruption from within and without, One state could be Red, already (Southern Cal) and the rest might follow under similar conditions... because we are no longer one state, but now three with lesser power.
I remember when the mormons from UTAH tipped Scale in Ban on Gay Marriage in CA.
TalenaGor
(1,104 posts)I remember something about it....
Of course they want to break up the 6th largest economy....
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)I know what would happen if we did break up this state...Yours Truly would probably move to SAIPAN or some such place out of this country, because Republicans would control this Country for decades.
TalenaGor
(1,104 posts)But wouldn't surprise me....
disillusioned73
(2,872 posts)so they have graduated from gerrymandering to this??.. If voters can't see thu this stunt, we in some deep doo-doo around the rest of the country..
CountAllVotes
(20,868 posts)Since the mid-19th century, the mountainous region of northern California and parts of southwestern Oregon have been proposed as a separate state. In 1941, some counties in the area ceremonially seceded, one day a week, from their respective states as the State of Jefferson. This movement disappeared after America's entry into World War II, but the notion has been rekindled in recent years.[14]
The California State Senate voted on June 4, 1965, to divide California into two states, with the Tehachapi Mountains as the boundary. Sponsored by State Senator Richard J. Dolwig (R-San Mateo), the resolution proposed to separate the 7 southern counties, with a majority of the state's population, from the 51 other counties, and passed 27-12. To be effective, the amendment would have needed approval by the State Assembly, by California voters, and by the United States Congress. As expected by Dolwig, the proposal did not get out of committee in the Assembly.[15]
In 1992, State Assemblyman Stan Statham sponsored a bill to allow a referendum in each county on a partition into three new states: North, Central, and South California. The proposal passed in the State Assembly but died in the State Senate.[16]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_and_secession_in_California
markbark
(1,560 posts)Get those sparsely populated flyover states collected into regions of respectable population numbers!
Combine Montana and Wyoming into a state that has at least as many people as Philadelphia.
Do we really need TWO Dakotas? (Combined they have fewer people than Phoenix)
Meld Kansas with Nebraska and you'd ALMOST have the population of LA.
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)to Republicans, do you really want to see them have it eventually? I live here, and I do not.
markbark
(1,560 posts)...was merely playing the "OK bunky, if it's political advantage you're seeking, let's erase a few R seats in the Senate while we're at it" game. I can just imagine the clutching of pearls while looking for a fainting couch that would come from the Republicans if it were suggested that maybe some of those big empty square states be consolidated.
Stargleamer
(1,989 posts)San Diego is now trending Democratic, and that might be enough for the proposed "Southern California" to be Blue. The other 2 areas would definitely be blue I think as eastern California is sparsely populated. In any case I think it has little chance of passing.
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)IT WEAKENS THE OTHER TWO. Do you really want to take a chance of California eventually going to the Republicans?? Read through this thread. If its such a great idea ask yourself why Texas hasn't been asked to be broken up?
catrose
(5,065 posts)But I can't figure out how to divide it into Urban Texas and Rural Texas
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)that this state be broken into three weaker parts?
catrose
(5,065 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)Stargleamer
(1,989 posts)but I think I read somewhere that all 3 proposed Californias had a majority vote for Hillary Clinton in 2016. Granted she was running against an-unpopular-in-California Trump, so other elections there might be less Dem support. With potentially 6 Dem Senators it would no longer be infuriating to have only as much Senatorial representation as Wyoming, and 1/4 the voting power as them.
But I agree it might not pan out that way. And there are quite a few drawbacks, such as where would L.A. get its water, etc.
jayschool2013
(2,312 posts)And put together Nebraska and Wyoming while we're at it.
SunSeeker
(51,550 posts)Upthevibe
(8,042 posts)and I NEVER think that crazy things won't happen (look at who's in the White House). Also, there was the whole anti-gay marriage fiasco back in 2008...We in this state can't make any assumptions and need to educate everyone!
SunSeeker
(51,550 posts)Breaking up CA has always been a GOP wet dream.
VOTE NO!!!