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yuiyoshida

(41,831 posts)
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 06:34 AM Jun 2018

OH, HELL TO THE FUCKING NO!!!!

Last edited Thu Jun 14, 2018, 07:18 AM - Edit history (1)

Initiative to break California into 3 states to go on November ballot


(CNN)An initiative that would divide California into three separate states qualified Tuesday to appear on the ballot in November's general election.

Californians will vote whether to separate into three states: California, Northern California and Southern California -- subject to approval by US Congress.

The proposal by venture capitalist, Tim Draper to break up California in a campaign called "Cal 3," received more than 402,468 valid signatures -- surpassing the amount required by state law.
California Secretary of State Alex Padilla will certify the initiative as qualified for the November 6th ballot on June 28.

Draper has said that partitioning California into three states would allow regional communities to make better and more sensible decisions for their citizens to address the state's most pressing issues, including the school systems, high taxes, deteriorating infrastructure and strained government.

continues..

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/13/us/california-three-states-initiative-ballot/index.html

California has ALWAYS has been a bastion for liberals and a powerful State for Democrats.

We went a very strong blue a few years back, but all of that could change if this State is broken up into three smaller states and within a few years, Republicans could start to gain more power back if the voters break up this state.

Republicans could NEVER budge California as a whole, but break the state up into three parts, just allowing one part to turn red will have significant changes for this entire region in the near future.

THIS MUST NOT HAPPEN!

We must stay strong together or California and the Democratic party will weaken because of it. We have seen what the Republicans have done to this Nation. It could become far, far worse if California is broken up and Republicans take it over eventually!

DON'T ALLOW CALIFORNIA to turn RED! VOTE NO ON THE BREAK UP OF THIS STATE!

IF California allows this to pass, SO GOES THE REST OF THE COUNTRY.... mark my words!!

115 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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OH, HELL TO THE FUCKING NO!!!! (Original Post) yuiyoshida Jun 2018 OP
My understanding is that it has little chance (one would hope): Californians? what say you? hlthe2b Jun 2018 #1
So one would think. But don't relax - Brexit once had little chance as well. Mister Ed Jun 2018 #32
This is fucked in so many ways... yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #40
With a little help from Russia, you neve can rule it out liberal N proud Jun 2018 #103
Hey yui! Glamrock Jun 2018 #2
This issue has only brought me to post this... THis is fuckiing nuts yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #3
Agree with everything you said. Glamrock Jun 2018 #11
Hang around. We need as many sane voices as possible to counter those who would divide us hlthe2b Jun 2018 #36
divide us..,., yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #38
Glad you came back to post about this, Yui.. Cha Jun 2018 #106
aloha and mahalo Cha... yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #107
They can't do this. BigmanPigman Jun 2018 #4
its on the fucking ballot... yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #10
It won't pass. BigmanPigman Jun 2018 #12
and WE SAID TRUMP would never be President.... yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #14
I DID say the moron would be president the minute I saw him announce it. BigmanPigman Jun 2018 #18
well that won't even buy you a cup of coffee yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #19
Proposition 8 banning same-sex marriage. yallerdawg Jun 2018 #39
AND look how long it took to legalize Cannabis... yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #41
I don't know if Democrats are truly aware... yallerdawg Jun 2018 #46
We need to educate the California public yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #54
Bingo! Good to see your name again. I missed you. nt jrthin Jun 2018 #83
Good to see you back. I agree, very bad idea. jalan48 Jun 2018 #5
I am not back, I am only pissed... yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #8
Well, I hope you come back Yuiyoshida and I agree about the danger of this initiative. jalan48 Jun 2018 #15
HI!!! MrScorpio Jun 2018 #6
HEY yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #16
Yuiyoshida! MFM008 Jun 2018 #7
I AM not back, i am pissed... yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #9
I'm with you 10,000 % and glad YOU'RE pissed calikid Jun 2018 #48
our state is important and its also yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #52
RUSSIAN PLOT ROB-ROX Jun 2018 #74
its conceivable... yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #77
Gerrymandering on another scale spike91nz Jun 2018 #13
OKAY? yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #17
Welcome back! Interesting times, right? sandensea Jun 2018 #23
IT would take CONGRESS to approve of this breakup and you know its a REpublican wet dream yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #26
Tim Draper is a greedy gazillionaire who wants to turn our state into Kansas. SunSeeker Jun 2018 #114
over our dead yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #115
How To Gain Two Senators FrankTC Jun 2018 #20
You forgot one thing.... yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #25
I wish to quibble with the math Pope George Ringo II Jun 2018 #81
Divide and conquer...With RUSSIAN meddling ... NO! yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #98
No argument from me Pope George Ringo II Jun 2018 #100
The only thing worse than giving the GOP 4 free US senators IronLionZion Jun 2018 #21
ITs a fucking disaster if REPUBLICANS MANIPULATE THE VOTE yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #24
Californians should vote against this -- then vote to DEPORT Tim Draper (from the state). n/t CousinIT Jun 2018 #22
Trump told Xi Jinping OF china he would love to be President for Life ... yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #28
they will stop at nothing to destroy this country. rurallib Jun 2018 #27
iTS HALF WAY down that road now... yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #29
This San Franciscan will actively work to send these conniving scam republicans down in flames. NBachers Jun 2018 #30
This is not only OUR SURVIVAL but the nations.... yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #34
California is an Economic & Political Powerhouse dlk Jun 2018 #31
NOT to mention the fucking RUSSIANS.... yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #35
Have you noticed.... DAngelo136 Jun 2018 #33
Consider the Centuries of Republican Rule for this nation...hell yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #37
Missed you! tazkcmo Jun 2018 #42
Thanks but I only came to sound the alarm... yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #45
Every state could divide. Republican states would divide like rabbits to gain Senators bucolic_frolic Jun 2018 #43
oh not to the Republicans.... yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #47
Let's split Texas up vercetti2021 Jun 2018 #44
RIGHT now we need to educate Californians not to fall for this scam yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #51
Even if it passes it would still have to be approved by the California legislature? pwb Jun 2018 #61
UHUH AND TRUMP WAS never going to be President... yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #65
Trump didn't win California and the state legislature is solid democratic so UHUH not likely. pwb Jun 2018 #90
Tell you what, take A RED STATE and break it up into Three states! yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #99
Actually, under that scenario, that land mass would go from bottomofthehill Jun 2018 #58
Is it constitutional? West Virginia separated from Virginia, but that was to remain part of the Nitram Jun 2018 #49
Congress would have to approve and to get all of the yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #59
Sounds extremely unlikely. Nitram Jun 2018 #67
Yeah like TRump was never going to be yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #69
What if Mississippi divided into 10 parts to get 18 more conservative Senators in the US Congress? Nitram Jun 2018 #50
CA is totally blue and staying together can keep it BLUE yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #97
A two state split would give Californians twice the number of Senators randr Jun 2018 #53
Yes and they COULD JUST AS EASILY BE yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #56
Not to mention skewing the Electoral College Wednesdays Jun 2018 #60
Awaiting the infusion of Russian money and bots. Sneederbunk Jun 2018 #55
For all we know they could already be behind it yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #57
rachel had a story on another plan to seceded. calexit. mopinko Jun 2018 #70
OT: Welcome back, Yuiyoshida! Wednesdays Jun 2018 #62
I am not back... yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #68
Wonder if this is yet another Putin backed scheme to fuck us over? lark Jun 2018 #63
right? yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #66
You don't have to wonder at all - Russia is absolutely behind the bullwinkle428 Jun 2018 #71
I agree. lark Jun 2018 #72
dont forget the state of monroe iditots AllaN01Bear Jun 2018 #64
"Republicans could start to gain more power back" and that's the sole reason. YOHABLO Jun 2018 #73
WE CAN NOT ALLOW THIS TO STAND yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #79
Completely agree, and thank you for this post! c-rational Jun 2018 #75
When I saw the map, I knew right then that this is a rethug strategy. Texin Jun 2018 #76
NOT TO mention yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #80
how is this disaster polling so far? 0rganism Jun 2018 #78
Tell ya what... yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #82
uh oh... 0rganism Jun 2018 #86
Are we sure that these California's would turn red? dubyadiprecession Jun 2018 #84
Well how about this... yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #85
isn't that a Russian backed movement? TalenaGor Jun 2018 #87
I don't know ... yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #88
ok here's a link....it was secession... TalenaGor Jun 2018 #89
That's crazy.. disillusioned73 Jun 2018 #91
Failed numerous times & will fail again CountAllVotes Jun 2018 #92
How about some consolidation to go along with breakup? markbark Jun 2018 #93
There IS NO NEED for CA to be broken up other than to be an Advantage yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #96
I have no desire to see CA broken up. markbark Jun 2018 #108
i'm not convinced that all 3 wouldn't be blue Stargleamer Jun 2018 #94
If EVEN ONE STATE turns red yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #95
I'd love for Texas to be broken up catrose Jun 2018 #101
And yet its fine with you yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #105
No it isn't catrose Jun 2018 #109
well that's a relief... yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #110
I hear you, yui. . . Stargleamer Jun 2018 #111
Let's merge the Dakotas jayschool2013 Jun 2018 #102
Yep. Or break up Tim Draper. nt SunSeeker Jun 2018 #113
My state needs to stay one state.... Upthevibe Jun 2018 #104
This would also destabilize public pensions and weaken unions. SunSeeker Jun 2018 #112

Mister Ed

(5,930 posts)
32. So one would think. But don't relax - Brexit once had little chance as well.
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 08:02 AM
Jun 2018

As did a Trump presidency.

With a little help from our Russian friends, preposterous things have been happening at the polls. Look for similar meddling and interference on this matter.

yuiyoshida

(41,831 posts)
40. This is fucked in so many ways...
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 08:17 AM
Jun 2018

WE need to keep this state strong and whole, or you just lost a MAJOR democratic state...

liberal N proud

(60,334 posts)
103. With a little help from Russia, you neve can rule it out
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 09:55 PM
Jun 2018

The integrity of out system has been so comprised, we may never fully trust elections again .

yuiyoshida

(41,831 posts)
3. This issue has only brought me to post this... THis is fuckiing nuts
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 06:57 AM
Jun 2018

It sounds to me like another plan to Destroy this state, BECAUSE WE ARE SUCH a pain in the ASS to Republicans, and they WANT to turn this state Red... THE biggest, strongest BLUE state and so they get the idea to break us up!

THIS MUST NOT HAPPEN.

If this STATE EVER turned RED this country will be in HEAP OF SHIT. I am enjoying the freedom of legal weed, SO how legal would Cannabis be if Republicans turn this state Red in a few years?

whats that expression?

Divide and Conquer?

Republicans are NOT getting their grubby little fingers on THIS STATE, EVER...

THIS MUST NOT HAPPEN!


CALIFORNIANS MUST NOT VOTE FOR breaking this state up.. IF it happens you have just guaranteed years OF REPUBLICAN RULE in this country and we can all kiss our asses good bye.

Cha

(297,196 posts)
106. Glad you came back to post about this, Yui..
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 11:32 PM
Jun 2018

You should stick around. I took off for 5 months and came back when Douglas Jones won in Alabama.

yuiyoshida

(41,831 posts)
107. aloha and mahalo Cha...
Fri Jun 15, 2018, 12:24 AM
Jun 2018

I am so fed up with all that is happening with this administration, and every day its something new and worse. I keep hoping that Mueller will help save us, but nothing is guaranteed any longer.

Hell at this point if even Michael Avenatti had anything that could bring this President down, I would feel better.

I keep thinking about something I read here on DU, where Trump told Xi Jinping of China how he would like to consider being the first President in history to have a life time term, and having a Republican House, Senate and Supreme Court that would allow him to do that just that.. The only thing we have to rely upon is the very document that has kept this country together for over 200 years, is our US Constitution, which every official has sworn to protect and uphold.

Would our Military also be willing to turn a blind eye to someone who could very much become someone like a Kim Jong Un, or a Rodrigo Duterte, or a Valdimir Putin?

Or would the American people rise up against against a Tyrant or would we meekly slide off into the shadows and pretend nothing has happened?

What ever happens, one thing for sure is, that Republicans will never be looked at in the same way ever again, historically. I hope we move beyond this some how and soon before this country is so devastated it will forget who we were to begin with.

BigmanPigman

(51,590 posts)
4. They can't do this.
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 07:00 AM
Jun 2018

There are already two California's, do they want 4? Since the early 1800s the part of CA in the US has been "Alta" CA and the part in Mexico is "Baja" CA. I think it has been working fine so far, why fix something if it isn't broken? This idea is ridiculous.

BigmanPigman

(51,590 posts)
12. It won't pass.
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 07:22 AM
Jun 2018

A lot of things are on ballots but not all pass. I am not worried about this. It is a stupid idea.

yuiyoshida

(41,831 posts)
14. and WE SAID TRUMP would never be President....
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 07:27 AM
Jun 2018

Well guess what, never say never.. WE Said Arnold Schwarzenegger would never be GOVERNOR, ... we said RONALD REAGAN would never be Governor... ARE YOU SO SURE??

BigmanPigman

(51,590 posts)
18. I DID say the moron would be president the minute I saw him announce it.
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 07:35 AM
Jun 2018

My family and friends can verify this. I just don't see it happening with CA...but that is only my two cents.

yuiyoshida

(41,831 posts)
19. well that won't even buy you a cup of coffee
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 07:38 AM
Jun 2018

at Starbucks...and hey LIKE i said, we never thought Arnold would be governor yet it happened! Impossible they said!! Impossible Ronald Reagan would never be Governor or President... that's what 2 cents bought back than...

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
39. Proposition 8 banning same-sex marriage.
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 08:15 AM
Jun 2018

Californians don't always vote the way we think they will.

I look at 'Initiative and Referendum' with a great deal of skepticism.

There's a fine line between Democracy and Mob Rule. And that judicial line is becoming more conservative by the day.

yuiyoshida

(41,831 posts)
41. AND look how long it took to legalize Cannabis...
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 08:20 AM
Jun 2018

Does anyone think things will be any different? Just get a bunch of Californians hooked on self interested issues, and we will lose sight of the entire ENCHILADA.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
46. I don't know if Democrats are truly aware...
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 08:30 AM
Jun 2018

that without counting California in 2016, the Dotard crushed Hillary in Electoral College voting and won the popular vote in the other 49 states. WON the popular vote!

California is a conservative TARGET and GOAL.

Given a chance, R's are relentless and tricky as can be.

Californians better stay woke in November.

yuiyoshida

(41,831 posts)
54. We need to educate the California public
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 08:44 AM
Jun 2018

and the rest of the nation too... imagine three MORE REPUBLICAN STATES... turning this country to shit!

yuiyoshida

(41,831 posts)
8. I am not back, I am only pissed...
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 07:07 AM
Jun 2018

THAT someone is allowing this on the ballot so CALIFORNIANS CAN STUPIDLY GIVE AWAY THE ENTIRE STORE TO REPUBLICANS... IT is a ruse, a trick, a way to give Republicans an advantage ...over the rest of this country.,.

hell to the fucking NO!!!

yuiyoshida

(41,831 posts)
52. our state is important and its also
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 08:40 AM
Jun 2018

a way that Republicans can turn this country into a shambles... destroy a major blue state, and turn it into three more Republican states is fucking wet dream for them.

ROB-ROX

(767 posts)
74. RUSSIAN PLOT
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 09:30 AM
Jun 2018

They had paid people $3 for each signature to get this to pass. I also read that Russian money was behind this bizarre plot. Because California is democratic the GOP want rural conservative areas to be a state with conservative government representatives and senators. The plot is like a bad movie. Sing people vote this crazy idea hope enough think DOWN. This fake story that people want this to happen is just like the civil war again.

yuiyoshida

(41,831 posts)
77. its conceivable...
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 09:40 AM
Jun 2018

Destroy Blue California and add three more Republican states, and you have A republican rule for decades. I am going to email Kamala Harris and others, we need to jump on this shit.

spike91nz

(180 posts)
13. Gerrymandering on another scale
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 07:27 AM
Jun 2018

Breaking it up would likely give the right at least another senator and maybe two. Breaking up the state would be a disaster and open the doors to Balkanization of the country.

yuiyoshida

(41,831 posts)
17. OKAY?
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 07:32 AM
Jun 2018

if CALIFORNIA GOES Red EVENTUALLY? We would be complicit in Screwing up this Country for Centuries...under Republican rule. LET Democrats consider that...A generations of TRUMP like Presidents all because some one thought it was inconvenient to live in ONE large state.

sandensea

(21,627 posts)
23. Welcome back! Interesting times, right?
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 07:45 AM
Jun 2018

All this reminds me of my days in Orange County (in the '90s and Aughts), when I first remember hearing of this idea.

And what I heard confirms everything you pointed out: this is high (no pun intended) on Republicans' wish list.

The reasons mentioned most often were either a) racist ("We're nothing like L.A. and those places" ); or b) brazenly political ("This way I could have a Republican senator and governor" ).

My understanding is that the Assembly, and governor, would have to approve any such breakup. Is that right?

Great seeing you again, yuiyoshida. Please keep us updated!

yuiyoshida

(41,831 posts)
26. IT would take CONGRESS to approve of this breakup and you know its a REpublican wet dream
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 07:52 AM
Jun 2018

pure and simple.

FrankTC

(210 posts)
20. How To Gain Two Senators
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 07:41 AM
Jun 2018

Keeping California as is means that Californians have as much clout in the US Senate as Wyoming and less than the great state of Dakota, which was divided into north and south and given twice as many senators. If California becomes three states, it will have six senators instead of two. It's entirely possible that one of the Californias will be red (South California?) and the others decisively blue. It's therefore possible that the three Californias will produce four senate seats for Democrats and two for Republicans -- a net gain of two Democrats in the US Senate. Along with new senators from Puerto Rico and the area formerly known as the District of Columbia (if they become states), the increased representation will make Democratic control more likely. Rural areas have too much power in the federal government in part because their citizens -- who lean much more Republican than people in real America -- elect more senators than they deserve. This disparity affects the Electoral College calculus also. One way to redress the unfairness is to create more blue states. And remember: As goes the Senate, so go the courts.

yuiyoshida

(41,831 posts)
25. You forgot one thing....
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 07:48 AM
Jun 2018

if the REPUBLICANS manipulate the voting, and gerrymander and do all the cheating shit they do, you JUST TURNED THIS COUNTRY red for VERY LONG FUCKING TIME. If YOu live in CA and you don't want to contribute to the down fall of this nation, than VOTE no.

Pope George Ringo II

(1,896 posts)
81. I wish to quibble with the math
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 09:47 AM
Jun 2018

Right now California has two reliably Democratic Senators and zero GOP, so it's a +2 for us. If that turns into four Democrats and two GOP, that puts us right back at +2. I don't think this is really a gain. If we go from 100 Senators to 104 Senators--putting Puerto Rico and D.C. aside for a moment--then it takes 53 votes for a majority instead of 51 so we're right back where we started. But it now takes 70 (69.3 rounded up) for a 2/3 majority instead of 67. and we only got two seats when the requirements went up by three so we're now in the hole. Puerto Rico and D.C. of course represent friendly Senators out of thin air and so are an absolute positive.

Pope George Ringo II

(1,896 posts)
100. No argument from me
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 09:22 PM
Jun 2018

In principle, I'd actually be okay with a split to provide better representation for people and give them better access to their Senators and Governors. As reality shakes out, comparing the generic ballot to how Republicans gerrymander, keeping California whole actually minimizes their ability to steal a few legislators.

IronLionZion

(45,433 posts)
21. The only thing worse than giving the GOP 4 free US senators
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 07:44 AM
Jun 2018

are how many of our fellow DUers naively support this gerrymandering. Of course they want to pack liberals into a smaller space. Conservatives live in those wide open rural areas and would get disproportionate representation for fewer people.

If they proposed drawing the lines in a way that each new state was centered around a major liberal city like San Fran and LA, then maybe.

This proposal is very bad for Democrats.

yuiyoshida

(41,831 posts)
24. ITs a fucking disaster if REPUBLICANS MANIPULATE THE VOTE
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 07:46 AM
Jun 2018

you JUST HANDED THE REPUBLICANS THEIR WET DREAM.

yuiyoshida

(41,831 posts)
28. Trump told Xi Jinping OF china he would love to be President for Life ...
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 07:54 AM
Jun 2018

if the Republicans were to break up California, how long would it take for him to HAve that dream and live it... WE WOULD BE FUCKED!

yuiyoshida

(41,831 posts)
29. iTS HALF WAY down that road now...
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 07:59 AM
Jun 2018

The Republicans are running everything, its only a matter of time before they fuck with this nation beyond repair, and let me tell you, if CALIFORNIA GOES...so goes the nation.

yuiyoshida

(41,831 posts)
34. This is not only OUR SURVIVAL but the nations....
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 08:06 AM
Jun 2018

CALIFORNIANS must NOT vote to break up this state... or you have secured Republican rule for centuries to come.

dlk

(11,561 posts)
31. California is an Economic & Political Powerhouse
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 08:01 AM
Jun 2018

Of course Republicans want to break it up and destroy it. It would be a grave mistake to assume this referendum won’t pass. Remember the internet trolls and voting machine hackers that stole the presidency. They’re still out there.

DAngelo136

(265 posts)
33. Have you noticed....
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 08:03 AM
Jun 2018

Nobody's offering to split up Texas or any other red state. This is a "pig in a poke" kind of a deal. This jackass tried to offer to split California into 6 states before and failed. So now it's 3. This has to go down in flames and smoke.

yuiyoshida

(41,831 posts)
37. Consider the Centuries of Republican Rule for this nation...hell
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 08:09 AM
Jun 2018

The Republicans will be practically begging the Russians to come and help them run this country! PRESIDENT putin could be a reality, or maybe TRUMP FOR LIFE..,let that fucking sink in!

bucolic_frolic

(43,146 posts)
43. Every state could divide. Republican states would divide like rabbits to gain Senators
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 08:29 AM
Jun 2018

if this passes. THis is total bullshit. Worst idea in 100 years.

yuiyoshida

(41,831 posts)
47. oh not to the Republicans....
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 08:33 AM
Jun 2018

its their wet dream to destroy one of a few Democratic states left. Ask people in Red States how it feels to be helpless against the idiots running their state and living next to ignorant Neighbors... now imagine a US under Republican rule for Centuries.

yuiyoshida

(41,831 posts)
51. RIGHT now we need to educate Californians not to fall for this scam
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 08:36 AM
Jun 2018

its NOT just California, its the entire nation at stake ... centuries of Republican rule ... and maybe it will become no longer a Democracy.. TRumpsters want a dictatorship!!

pwb

(11,261 posts)
61. Even if it passes it would still have to be approved by the California legislature?
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 08:52 AM
Jun 2018

According to the U.S. Constitution.....And that is never going to happen. They are a deep blue.

yuiyoshida

(41,831 posts)
65. UHUH AND TRUMP WAS never going to be President...
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 08:55 AM
Jun 2018

And Arnold and Ronnie Reagan were never going to Governors of California, ..look how that turned out.

And no, Congress can approve the three state split, and with a little bit of manipulation, some help from the RUSSIANS, hey we got a recipe for disaster.

pwb

(11,261 posts)
90. Trump didn't win California and the state legislature is solid democratic so UHUH not likely.
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 11:10 AM
Jun 2018

Article 4 of the constitution is quit clear on this topic. But you are entitled to feel worried, me I think it's never gonna happen. Californians are smart and won't be divided by this rich asshole behind this stupid move. Peace.

Nitram

(22,794 posts)
49. Is it constitutional? West Virginia separated from Virginia, but that was to remain part of the
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 08:35 AM
Jun 2018

Union. And, for political reasons, no Justice or Congressman in the North was going to raise objections.

yuiyoshida

(41,831 posts)
59. Congress would have to approve and to get all of the
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 08:52 AM
Jun 2018

CA's to turn RED someday, would be a Republican wet dream

yuiyoshida

(41,831 posts)
97. CA is totally blue and staying together can keep it BLUE
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 08:31 PM
Jun 2018

Break it up and its A CRAP SHOOT. Orange county is already RED enough, we don't need other parts of the State to lose to Republicans too, unless you want Republicans to control this state?

Wednesdays

(17,362 posts)
60. Not to mention skewing the Electoral College
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 08:52 AM
Jun 2018

Instead of something like 54 blue votes, it would become around 19 blue votes vs. 38 RED votes!

lark

(23,097 posts)
63. Wonder if this is yet another Putin backed scheme to fuck us over?
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 08:55 AM
Jun 2018

I'd read before that Russia was strongly behind efforts to split California up or have them secede. Anything that bring the US closer to being "white" is what Russia wants as well as anything that weakens us.

bullwinkle428

(20,629 posts)
71. You don't have to wonder at all - Russia is absolutely behind the
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 09:23 AM
Jun 2018

secession movements currently taking place in both California and Texas.

lark

(23,097 posts)
72. I agree.
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 09:25 AM
Jun 2018

I just haven't seen any proof, other than the fact that they have the most to win from that move.

AllaN01Bear

(18,191 posts)
64. dont forget the state of monroe iditots
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 08:55 AM
Jun 2018

they keep trying , tried this for years and i bet that this vulture capitalist is republican and wants to keep his monies . you cant take it with u.

Texin

(2,596 posts)
76. When I saw the map, I knew right then that this is a rethug strategy.
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 09:36 AM
Jun 2018

They would be expected to pick up 4 senate seats and probably a majority of congressional seats.

I don't know anything about how the process would be following such a vote by California law, but it would require approval by congress in D.C. The rethugs there would be blissed out to ratify this with 2/3 vote if they believe it will increase their numbers. This alone should be single, overriding issue to get Dems to the polls in California in the fall. However, it will also increase rethug turnout, which could be a deciding factor in making challenges to congressional seats a problem for the Dems.

0rganism

(23,945 posts)
78. how is this disaster polling so far?
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 09:41 AM
Jun 2018

i would hope it gets roundly defeated for the piece of shit that it is, but it's apparently easy to convince some liberals that it's somehow a good idea so ... well... how's it polling?

yuiyoshida

(41,831 posts)
82. Tell ya what...
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 09:49 AM
Jun 2018

What if in November, in California there was a proposition that From now on, ICE CREAM would be free in the State to anyone who wanted it... while on the surface its sounds fantastic, it would put people who make ICE CREAM out of business, cause they wouldn't make a dime on it, and no one even outside the state would be able to sell ice cream again, cause here its FREE, not only would it kill business here, but would kill iCE CREAM ever existing anywhere in the state,

Actions have their consequences, and no one in this state would ever eat it again, unless they went else where and paid for it.

yuiyoshida

(41,831 posts)
85. Well how about this...
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 09:59 AM
Jun 2018

Russians involved in our Elections, Republicans gerrymandering districts, Not allowing POC to vote, and consider this...

RIGHT now as a FUll WHOLE STATE, we are BLUE... break us up, and you end up with three less powerful STATES, that thanks to Corruption from within and without, One state could be Red, already (Southern Cal) and the rest might follow under similar conditions... because we are no longer one state, but now three with lesser power.

I remember when the mormons from UTAH tipped Scale in Ban on Gay Marriage in CA.

TalenaGor

(1,104 posts)
87. isn't that a Russian backed movement?
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 10:06 AM
Jun 2018

I remember something about it....
Of course they want to break up the 6th largest economy....

yuiyoshida

(41,831 posts)
88. I don't know ...
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 10:07 AM
Jun 2018

I know what would happen if we did break up this state...Yours Truly would probably move to SAIPAN or some such place out of this country, because Republicans would control this Country for decades.

 

disillusioned73

(2,872 posts)
91. That's crazy..
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 11:16 AM
Jun 2018

so they have graduated from gerrymandering to this??.. If voters can't see thu this stunt, we in some deep doo-doo around the rest of the country..

CountAllVotes

(20,868 posts)
92. Failed numerous times & will fail again
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 11:43 AM
Jun 2018
20th century

Since the mid-19th century, the mountainous region of northern California and parts of southwestern Oregon have been proposed as a separate state. In 1941, some counties in the area ceremonially seceded, one day a week, from their respective states as the State of Jefferson. This movement disappeared after America's entry into World War II, but the notion has been rekindled in recent years.[14]
The California State Senate voted on June 4, 1965, to divide California into two states, with the Tehachapi Mountains as the boundary. Sponsored by State Senator Richard J. Dolwig (R-San Mateo), the resolution proposed to separate the 7 southern counties, with a majority of the state's population, from the 51 other counties, and passed 27-12. To be effective, the amendment would have needed approval by the State Assembly, by California voters, and by the United States Congress. As expected by Dolwig, the proposal did not get out of committee in the Assembly.[15]

In 1992, State Assemblyman Stan Statham sponsored a bill to allow a referendum in each county on a partition into three new states: North, Central, and South California. The proposal passed in the State Assembly but died in the State Senate.[16]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_and_secession_in_California


markbark

(1,560 posts)
93. How about some consolidation to go along with breakup?
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 02:44 PM
Jun 2018

Get those sparsely populated flyover states collected into regions of respectable population numbers!

Combine Montana and Wyoming into a state that has at least as many people as Philadelphia.

Do we really need TWO Dakotas? (Combined they have fewer people than Phoenix)

Meld Kansas with Nebraska and you'd ALMOST have the population of LA.

yuiyoshida

(41,831 posts)
96. There IS NO NEED for CA to be broken up other than to be an Advantage
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 08:26 PM
Jun 2018

to Republicans, do you really want to see them have it eventually? I live here, and I do not.

markbark

(1,560 posts)
108. I have no desire to see CA broken up.
Fri Jun 15, 2018, 09:29 AM
Jun 2018

...was merely playing the "OK bunky, if it's political advantage you're seeking, let's erase a few R seats in the Senate while we're at it" game. I can just imagine the clutching of pearls while looking for a fainting couch that would come from the Republicans if it were suggested that maybe some of those big empty square states be consolidated.

Stargleamer

(1,989 posts)
94. i'm not convinced that all 3 wouldn't be blue
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 04:31 PM
Jun 2018

San Diego is now trending Democratic, and that might be enough for the proposed "Southern California" to be Blue. The other 2 areas would definitely be blue I think as eastern California is sparsely populated. In any case I think it has little chance of passing.

yuiyoshida

(41,831 posts)
95. If EVEN ONE STATE turns red
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 08:23 PM
Jun 2018

IT WEAKENS THE OTHER TWO. Do you really want to take a chance of California eventually going to the Republicans?? Read through this thread. If its such a great idea ask yourself why Texas hasn't been asked to be broken up?

catrose

(5,065 posts)
101. I'd love for Texas to be broken up
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 09:25 PM
Jun 2018

But I can't figure out how to divide it into Urban Texas and Rural Texas

Stargleamer

(1,989 posts)
111. I hear you, yui. . .
Fri Jun 15, 2018, 04:42 PM
Jun 2018

but I think I read somewhere that all 3 proposed Californias had a majority vote for Hillary Clinton in 2016. Granted she was running against an-unpopular-in-California Trump, so other elections there might be less Dem support. With potentially 6 Dem Senators it would no longer be infuriating to have only as much Senatorial representation as Wyoming, and 1/4 the voting power as them.

But I agree it might not pan out that way. And there are quite a few drawbacks, such as where would L.A. get its water, etc.

Upthevibe

(8,042 posts)
104. My state needs to stay one state....
Thu Jun 14, 2018, 10:00 PM
Jun 2018

and I NEVER think that crazy things won't happen (look at who's in the White House). Also, there was the whole anti-gay marriage fiasco back in 2008...We in this state can't make any assumptions and need to educate everyone!

SunSeeker

(51,550 posts)
112. This would also destabilize public pensions and weaken unions.
Tue Jun 19, 2018, 03:47 PM
Jun 2018

Breaking up CA has always been a GOP wet dream.

VOTE NO!!!

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