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Mon Feb 25, 2013, 02:44 AM

Veterans kicked out of bar

SAN ANTONIO -

A confrontation at a north side bar became violent after three veterans said they were asked to leave because of their service dogs.

However, managers at Rebar said Sunday that Saturday's incident had nothing to do with the dogs.

Carrie Ann Partch, who uses a service dog for post-traumatic stress disorder, said she used her cell phone to record an incident on Saturday where she and her two veteran friends were pushed and pepper-sprayed.

"We were there a couple of hours," said Partch. "Then, all of a sudden, it started picking up and the manager told us we had to leave."

More at http://www.ksat.com/news/Veterans-kicked-out-of-bar/-/478452/19065900/-/137o9qlz/-/index.html .

[font color=green]This should be interesting. Do the rights of the veterans to be accompanied by their service dogs trump the rights of the other customers? Should the customers on PTSD meds even be in a bar drinking alcohol?[/font]

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Response to TexasTowelie (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 04:18 AM

1. Alcohol and PTSD are a bad combination

Alcohol has been shown to increase or amplify PTSD symptoms, I guess the dog helps cancel that out.




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Response to madville (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 04:21 AM

2. Bless their hearts!

Maybe it would help if they pray to dog instead?

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Response to TexasTowelie (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 05:09 AM

3. What does their veteran status have to do with this? Not everyone with a service animal is a vet.

How do you know they were on meds? Not everyone with PTSD is. Not everyone with PTSD is a veteran.

Sounds like too much booze on one side, not enough common sense on the other.

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Response to TexasTowelie (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 05:43 AM

4. Some info from a different article:

She can remind me to take my medicine, if Im having nightmares she can wake me up in the middle of the night to notify me Im having nightmares, Partch said.

http://www.kens5.com/news/Army-V-144056906.html

To begin with it obviously isn't the middle of the night since the bar was still open serving alcohol. Second, it does not seem likely that Partch or her friends were sleeping in the bar since she was lucid enough to use her cell phone to record the altercation. Does she have some type of disorder that causes her to spontaneously fall asleep? Was it going to be time for her to take her medication while in the bar?

I certainly respect the need to have service animals and people should make reasonable accommodations, but it does not seem apparent that she actually needed the dog to perform any tasks for her in those circumstances. It does seem possible that she is frequenting various venues so that she can file an ADA lawsuit and get a settlement. If that is true, then she is doing a disservice to others with disabilities by not complying with the manager's request and she is also endangering her service animal that was most likely provided to her at taxpayer expense. The temperature has been mild lately, so it doesn't seem unreasonable for her and her friends to leave the dogs in their vehicle in this situation.

I hope that I'm completely wrong, but I sense an attitude of entitlement in this situation on the part of these veterans.

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Response to TexasTowelie (Reply #4)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 10:33 AM

5. A therapy dog accompanies the master.

The sense of purpose helps, but there may also be neurobiological effects of interacting with an animal; research has shown that when focus is on petting and playing with a dog, it can increase oxytocin, a brain chemical that boosts trust and quiets the brain's fear response.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/03/12971693-veterans-rave-about-ptsd-service-dogs-but-research-lags?lite

I don't know if the veterans were actually drinking. Maybe they just wanted a late-night place to gather, have a pricey cola, shoot the bull, and give each other support. Their animals accompany them whether it's time for medication (not always psych meds) or sleep. Helping the veterans keep a steady emotional state helps judgment.

Personally, I can't think of a single group in the US more "entitled" to deference versus having their motives judged as something more sinister.

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 03:14 PM

6. Sorry Ilsa

I've been in a screwed up frame of mind this past weekend due to some comments made by my brother. I've been struggling to deal with things the last few days (or is that months?).

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Response to TexasTowelie (Reply #6)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 08:31 PM

7. That's okay. Anyone can have a

bad day. What's up with your brother?

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #7)

Mon Feb 25, 2013, 10:54 PM

8. His problem with me is that I'm unemployed and he doesn't think that I'm trying to find a job.

I wrote about my personal situation here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022423954 post #100.

Aside from that, my brother has anger management issues and has taken the role of victim in every aspect of his personal life. He has never been a sociable person even in the best of his moods.

Some of it has justification. He quit his job at a refinery in 1986 and eventually was forced to join the Army. He was sent to West Germany prior to the fall of the Berlin Wall and then his tour of duty was extended by six months and he was sent with the 1st Armored division to Iraq.

After his military experience he returned to college (he was a D- student in high school) and became a respiratory therapist. He was dropped to PRN status just before Thanksgiving and he wonders why he was the person who got nixed since there were other therapists that had less seniority, but at the same time he was also the subject of some patient complaints because of his attitude and his inability to follow through with the simplest tasks at the hospital (e.g., closing something that he opened, returning equipment back to the area where he picked them up). While I understand and empathize with the change of his job status, he droned on for days about it until I finally had to call him on it because he was driving me further into depression while he assumed the role of victim.

He also was the primary caregiver for my father for about four years before he died, but I wasn't able to assist much since I lived over 200 miles away and voluntarily gave up driving due to some of the medications I was taking. However, when I was able to take off for more than a couple of days from work I took the bus home to help relieve him so that he could visit his friends in south Texas. My sisters would also come on the weekends to assist while my brother was working.

A few weeks ago, he wanted help to find extra work and I had to guide him through every step of the process of filling out a job application for about three hours since his computer literacy is equivalent to that of a second-grade student. So while he says that I don't appreciate his assistance, he doesn't show me any appreciation in return and treats me with less respect than the neighbor's cat. If I inadvertently say one wrong word, it triggers his rage and I've literally had to spend hours walking in the rain at night to get away from his nastiness. He has yelled in my face ready to bite my nose off like a drill sergeant. On another occasion he wrestled me to the ground and tried to choke me with his hands around my neck. Due to the stipulations of my father's will I am in a situation where I would get kicked out of the house if I notify the law about his behavior. So I'm in a situation where I could literally end up homeless with only a few days notice.

A couple of weeks ago I woke up early with stomach discomfort and went to the bathroom. I told him what was up and asked him to clear out the laundry machine (which he uses as his personal clothes hamper). He had another conniption fit and was yelling at me through the bathroom door while I was on the throne. We have barely spoken with each other since then and when we do it inevitably leads to a fight.

I realize that I am a financial burden at this time, but I've also told him that I'm willing to let him have whatever portion of the proceeds that would be due to me for the sale of my father's house since he received the bulk of the cash after my father died. He could use his VA benefits to pay off the remaining portion of the mortgage, but he doesn't want to since he can't decide what he wants to do next in his life.

There is a lot of tension between us, but he will be nice to me when he wants help from me (the use of some of my possessions or working on the computer to purchase tickets, medical scrubs, online job-hunting, etc.). In addition, I do most of the housework around here since he is a slob. I'm surprised that he hasn't gotten food poisoning since he is too lazy to scrub a dirty dish or pick up the trash that he drops on the floor.

I know that I'm unloading a lot on this post, but I'm preparing for the worst situations and I don't know what lies ahead for the future. My job experience was in highly specialized areas and most of those positions were outsourced to other countries. It's doubtful that I will ever return to the same income level that I held previously, but I'm trying not to let my problems weigh me down. However, it's difficult to project any self-confidence or a positive attitude during job interviews when the situation is so miserable. Meanwhile, I keep plugging along hoping that something pleasant will occur in the future.

BTW, since you've said that you live in southeast Texas, avoid Gulf Coast Medical Center in Wharton at all costs. It's poorly managed and it may end up going down the tubes later this year. It received an "F" rating on the hospital scorecard at the end of last year.

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Response to TexasTowelie (Reply #8)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 01:29 PM

9. Dear TxT, I' m sorry you are dealing with so much. I read your

post here and on the Oscars thread. I guess I'll offer some advice. Its free, so i guess it isnt worth much. Here goes:

It sounds like, professionally, you need either retraining or a new certification to expand your job possibilities. Do you have any of your unemployment saved to spend on training? Are you receiving severance that you could use to pay for new skills? Most well-paying jobs that I am familiar with require the individual to almost constantly keep learning and upgrading their skill set, either as a license requirement or because it is imperative for the job.

Also, have you searched nationally? Internationally? I understand the temptation to stay close to friends, but if they are unable to provide you with financial support, you will need to set out on your own. You cant forego your own needs to be near friends. New friends can be made, even better than the old ones. You might even be able to hook up with DUers in a new city. And let's face it: Texas is awful for helping anyone other than the rich and corporations. I've read here on DU that there are blue states that are more generous in helping folks get back on their feet, but I'm not certain which areas are best.

All of that being said, it sounds like you are in a tight spot. You may need to take a job that doesn't pay anywhere near what you were paid before, much less only 25% less. But, if you earn enough to get by on, it may provide you with 1) the means to get away from your brother and recover from that awful situation, 2) the time you need for the economy to turn around and retrain or re-work your career. At minimum, by contributing to the household bills or your own upkeep, it will empower you emotionally and eliminate your roommate-brother's excuse for hassling or abusing you. Plus, you'll be engaging with other people. The socialization from work might help with the depression. And even part time work will show a potential future employer that you have ambition.

You might get some opinions on this from DU. I'm certainly not familiar with the sectors of the national job market. You might ask DUers what to expect in finding new work, where the best options are, etc. I've read accounts of DUers working part time and lower-skilled jobs to get by and keep themselves fed and sheltered until a better, permanent gig comes along. You might also ask about what social benefits they've used that were helpful. I know that if I needed foodstamps or Medicaid, I'd gladly endure a two hour trip with Satan to get the benefits if they are available.

Also, I know nurses who warned me about GCMC ages ago. Awful place. Sounds like they have been managed poorly. And if your brother has been shifted to PRN, then he's lost his medical benefits. Sounds like he's under a lot of stress, too, which he takes out on you. At PRN, he may be worried that an application for a VA loan would be turned down or that he would default. If he may have to move for work, then he absolutely should not incur a mortgage or any loan obligation. I don't think anyone would fault him for that. You both would probably be better off liquidating the property.

I hope it works out for you. Hang in there; don't give up on yourself.

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #9)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:31 PM

10. Thank you for the advice, I've already followed through on most of your suggestions.

I'm getting ready to hit the streets after the lunch rush to see what is available locally. There is a steak/seafood restaurant nearby that is hiring, but I'm a horrible cook (I never cooked seafood and I rarely eat it). My only experience in the food industry was as a pizza delivery driver during the summer while I was a student. I never had a good sense of balance and always had the tremors which is why I didn't pursue a career as a chemist which was my minor in college. The physical issues caused by the neuropathy and shortness of breath more or less take me out of a lot of occupations that require physical stamina.

I'll send you a DU mail this evening to provide some more details and let you know how the search went.

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Response to TexasTowelie (Reply #10)

Tue Feb 26, 2013, 02:56 PM

11. Good luck! I hope you find something, and

I hope it's a good deal!

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