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Tue Dec 13, 2011, 10:32 PM

Do you feel that our current (Canadian) parties represent you?

Just thought I'd start a really wide ranging discussion topic, to kind of see where everyone is at in this group. I'll go first.
I'm extremely left of centre, but that said I'm not necessarily anti-capitalism, I just strongly believe in a social contract that allows people to gain wealth but also raises the standards of living that create an environment for creating wealth. Exploitation of labour, and natural resources is not honorable, sustainable or equitable.

I think the Conservative party is solely bent on selling Canada by the pound to the highest (typically International) bidders. They use wedge issues, fear mongering (omnibus crime bill) and increasing militarism (Lybia, F-35's etc) to confuse and divide the populace. Now with their majority position, I expect complete opacity from them, and a chilling effect on free speech and civil liberties. They are truly the party of small penises.

The Liberals are what the Conservatives used to be. All of the parties (just like in the USA) have shifted right. I think Liberal voters like the idea of fiscal conservatism but are generally easy-going people on social issues. The mean spirited Conservatives scare them a little. However the Lib voters haven't been too concerned about the wholesale liquidation of our national assets. Although Mulroney started Free Trade, the Libs picked up where he left off, and continued the sell off, and loss of manufacturing jobs.

I have always supported the NDP, (except the odd strategic vote to prevent a conservative). Sadly I think their recent success was largely due to Layton's charisma, and the implosion of the Bloc, and the Federal Libs. I think they too have moved to the centre and lack bold ideas. I am afraid that (like the Libs) they can be prone to over-legislating us into a nanny state, (Photo radar in Ontario for example).

I think the only notable mention about the Green party is their environmental idealism, and their concept of re-integrating government issued money (as opposed to bank-created debt) back into the economy. I think technically the the NDP held this view also, but suspiciously never talk about it.

So thats my 2 cents. I guess for now I'm 'stuck' being an NDP supporter, and will never support the Libs or Cons, because they don't share my values (not even remotely). Hope to hear from some others in this group: Canada is a Big and Diverse country, so I'm sure there must be a lot of opinions!




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Response to Joe Shlabotnik (Original post)

Tue Dec 13, 2011, 10:40 PM

1. My 2 cents worth. The Canadian Electorate are fucking idoits. I don't know of anyone prior to the

 

past election in Canada, that was for a douh boy majority Gov't. But here we are, months later with a Harper majority Gov't. WTF.... They have waffled out of there commitment to Kyoto, and what's next? They have four years to fuck that country up, and I'm certain that they will achive it given the time.

Many of us thought that the UK was bad under Brown, but now they have Cameron (a conservative of course) and things are going to get much worse there, just like Canada.

Best of luck, my Northern cousins.

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Response to teddy51 (Reply #1)

Tue Dec 13, 2011, 10:48 PM

2. "You won't recognize this place in 5 years"...

is what Harper told an American Neo-con think tank a few years back while salivating for a majority in parliament. I guess thats one promise that he intends to keep.

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Response to Joe Shlabotnik (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 13, 2011, 10:57 PM

3. You know what, I don't blame the electorate as much as I blame the Liberals, and here is why!

 

Ignatif? really? The guy lived in the US for how many years? What the hell did he ever have in common with Canadian's? Squat! Find a new leader for the Liberal party, and they might, just might have a fighting chance in the next Federal election. I really feel that the passing of Jack Layton has added a major hole in the Canadian electoral process. There is nothing that the current opposition, or remaining parties can do to reign in Harper though. He has free reign for the next four years, and there is nothing that can stop him and he knows it.

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Response to teddy51 (Reply #3)

Tue Dec 13, 2011, 11:10 PM

4. Ignatief was a terrible choice,

especially in an age where 'likeability' some how has meaning in politics. Not that anyone would want to sit down and have a beer with Harper (I'd be afraid he'd slip something into my drink and I'd wake up on some rapture-cult alter, or maybe renditioned somewhere). Layton was the only guy who had both credibility and a common touch. I think some liberals drifted to the conservative party, and many drifted to the NDP, but many of them stayed home. In 4 years (if we're still a democracy), the Libs will make a come back. But right now the NDP leadership is not too promising and I don't follow the Libs enough to know if they have any rising stars, but It sure ain't Bob Rae.

To the Libs credit though, they still act like the official opposition party, or at least thats the way the CBC covers it.

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Response to Joe Shlabotnik (Reply #4)

Tue Dec 13, 2011, 11:39 PM

5. I think that the Libs are trying, or are going to bring in Justin Treudeo (sp) and I'm not certain

 

that he is up to the task (as his father was), but I guess we will see how that goes. The Liberals need a Charismatic figure, but I'm not certain who that person is right now. Funny, I really liked John Charest or Brian Tobin as Liberal Leaders.

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Response to teddy51 (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 13, 2011, 11:57 PM

6. Trudeau would be interseting,

but I think he said something after 9-11, or was anti-semitic or something to that effect; that people totally flipped out over. Also his dad's huge legacy is highly divisive. But I think he is actually quite bright, articulate and charming enough. Charest is fine for Quebec, but I'd never trust a former Conservative at the national level.

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Response to Joe Shlabotnik (Reply #6)

Sun Jan 5, 2014, 10:13 AM

12. Trudeau is 'trying'...

 



...to be interesting, but I don't think that long hair and a weird beard gets him there. Smacks of vanity.

I think that it was Mulcair who flipped out the people after 9-11 when he apparently said he thought it was an inside job. Of course, we don't want to belabour that point, but it was nice to hear some honesty from a politician. "One Puff" Justin could learn from him.

Canada needs a socio-political revolution as much as does the USA. In my opinion, only the NDP is capable of delivering.


.

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Response to CanSocDem (Reply #12)

Sun Jan 5, 2014, 02:49 PM

13. Agree 100%

Its funny (this thread was started 2 years ago) how much things change. Trudeau is a vacuous marketing gimmick. Mulcair brings it every day, I wish he'd stop smiling so much now though, I liked him better when he was "Angry Tom", cause frankly there's a lot to be angry about.

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Response to Joe Shlabotnik (Original post)

Wed Dec 14, 2011, 12:06 AM

7. Nice discussion, I am heading to my pillow, hope we might continue this discussion later. n/t

 

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Response to teddy51 (Reply #7)

Wed Dec 14, 2011, 06:18 PM

8. Funny that you mentioned Trudeau, he Just one-upped his old man.

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Response to Joe Shlabotnik (Original post)

Wed Dec 14, 2011, 10:32 PM

9. Joe, I think your analysis of the parties is pretty much spot on.

Myself, I've drifted to the left over my adult lifetime. I've always been socially liberal, but fiscally moreso over the years.

My views on the issues are best represented by the NDP, but in each election I vote strategically. For example, in my riding, federally the NDP doesn't have a chance, so I vote Liberal. Never helps, we've been Reform/Conservative for the last 15 years.

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Response to JBoy (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 15, 2011, 01:09 AM

10. Thanks for adding to the discussion.

It is a shame that Canada is becoming increasingly polarized. The notion of voting your conscience gets thrown out the window when we're forced to vote for a 'winner'. I think if we truly had representation based on population, then the Reform element would probably hold about 5% of the seats. The killed $2.00 vote subsidy this past spring, is only going to further stifle debate, dissent and the evolution of new parties.

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Response to Joe Shlabotnik (Original post)

Sat Jan 4, 2014, 11:04 AM

11. No.

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Response to Joe Shlabotnik (Original post)

Sat Jan 18, 2014, 09:24 PM

14. I'm just trying to rejuvenate this thread...

... this being 2014 with an election likely.

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