HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Places » International » United Kingdom (Group) » so my Portuguese friend w...

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 12:18 PM

so my Portuguese friend was accosted in a coffee shop this morning

Ranted at, grabbed by the arm and told to go home. Then I come to DU and read that I am all wrong in thinking this vote had anything to do with xenophobia, it's just I have blinders on. And I'm possibly elitist . and faux-raging. Grrrrrr.

46 replies, 4305 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 46 replies Author Time Post
Reply so my Portuguese friend was accosted in a coffee shop this morning (Original post)
PaulaFarrell Jun 2016 OP
JustAnotherGen Jun 2016 #1
AllTooEasy Jun 2016 #27
PaulaFarrell Jun 2016 #45
niyad Jun 2016 #2
PaulaFarrell Jun 2016 #7
auntpurl Jun 2016 #37
Person 2713 Jun 2016 #3
Human101948 Jun 2016 #5
Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #12
Chakab Jun 2016 #19
Human101948 Jun 2016 #21
Chakab Jun 2016 #22
Human101948 Jun 2016 #24
DonRedwood Jun 2016 #25
tblue37 Jun 2016 #35
Lance Bass esquire Jun 2016 #4
Name removed Jun 2016 #10
forest444 Jun 2016 #28
1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #30
forest444 Jun 2016 #32
1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #34
no_hypocrisy Jun 2016 #6
PaulaFarrell Jun 2016 #9
drray23 Jun 2016 #8
TexasMommaWithAHat Jun 2016 #15
Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #18
TexasMommaWithAHat Jun 2016 #23
Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #40
1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #33
TexasMommaWithAHat Jun 2016 #38
PaulaFarrell Jun 2016 #46
LeftishBrit Jun 2016 #11
Starry Messenger Jun 2016 #13
Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #14
PaulaFarrell Jun 2016 #16
Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #17
Starry Messenger Jun 2016 #20
drray23 Jun 2016 #26
IronLionZion Jun 2016 #29
Starry Messenger Jun 2016 #31
Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #39
LeftishBrit Jun 2016 #43
Starry Messenger Jun 2016 #44
auntpurl Jun 2016 #36
PaulaFarrell Jun 2016 #41
Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #42

Response to PaulaFarrell (Original post)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 12:20 PM

1. I believe you PF

And auntpurl and a few people that actually LIVE in the UK and are seeing it first hand.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 02:20 PM

27. Let me guess; this happened in England or Wales.


The UK countries that voted to Leave.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AllTooEasy (Reply #27)

Wed Jun 29, 2016, 04:19 AM

45. actually london

And In an area that was 75% remain. Which shows how enabled the bigots now feel, I guess.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PaulaFarrell (Original post)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 12:20 PM

2. I hope your friend is okay. I have been reading a number of stories of non-anglos being attacked

in the wake of the brexit vote. very scary.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to niyad (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 12:33 PM

7. she is pretty strong

Just angry more than scared I think. But this was in London, not even one of the areas that went leave. I

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PaulaFarrell (Reply #7)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 04:21 PM

37. This American woman had a similar experience, came up with an interesting campaign:

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/safetypin-the-simple-way-you-can-show-solidarity-with-the-uks-foreignborn-population--ZJzeRPz6kHW

I know it'll happen to me eventually. I've been in France since the vote; I'm a bit scared to go home to London.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PaulaFarrell (Original post)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 12:21 PM

3. Trump gets a lot of passes and excuses made for his voters too. The denial is deep

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Person 2713 (Reply #3)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 12:25 PM

5. Anecdotes certainly prove that there is no other reason behind the BREXIT votes...

 

Immutable proof that everyone who voted for it is a racist xenophobe.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Human101948 (Reply #5)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 01:06 PM

12. No, and thanks for being glib

while we're watching people in our society get victimized, and in some cases seriously harmed.

It proves that the way this referendum was campaigned on has empowered some racist arseholes we knew only too well existed in our society to think they can get away with horrible behaviour like this.

Still, it's not you or anybody you know who's getting strongarmed in public, so that's fine.

Aside from the revolting nature of these deeds, I'm sure it's going to do wonders for our tourist industry!

If you visit some time, I hope you're not too "foreign-looking" or "foreign-sounding." If you live here and posted this, I'm just boggling.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Human101948 (Reply #5)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 01:45 PM

19. There can be more than one fucking reason for people voting leave. Claiming that xenophobia

 

was not a motivating factor in this mess is obtuse denialism at its absolute worst.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chakab (Reply #19)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 01:51 PM

21. Certainly not trying to be an obtuse denialist...

 

Just don't think that xenophobia was the only reason. Other people agree in their assessments.

What has certainly happened is that decades of globalization, deregulation, and policy changes that favored the wealthy have left Britain a more unequal place, with vast regional disparities. “It’s the shape of our long lasting and deeply entrenched national geographic inequality that drove differences in voting patterns,” Torsten Bell, the director of the Resolution Foundation, a bipartisan think tank, commented on Friday morning. “The legacy of increased national inequality in the 1980s, the heavy concentration of those costs in certain areas, and our collective failure to address it has more to say about what happened last night than shorter term considerations from the financial crisis or changed migration flows.”

That argument sounds persuasive to me. On Thursday night, it was the early announcement of a huge Leave vote in Sunderland, a depressed city in the Northeast that used to be a big shipbuilding center, that indicated the way the night was headed and caused the pound sterling to plummet in the Asian markets. Meanwhile, the Remain vote was consistently stronger in prosperous areas. Economics matters.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/why-the-remain-campaign-lost-the-brexit-vote?mbid=nl_160625_Daily&CNDID=27694289&spMailingID=9111072&spUserID=MTE0MTYzMzk5ODg3S0&spJobID=942410256&spReportId=OTQyNDEwMjU2S0

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Human101948 (Reply #21)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 01:57 PM

22. The heads of the leave campaign exploited concerns about economic insecurity and systemic equality

 

by running a scapegoating campaign that blamed foreigners and exploited fears about terrorism.

Both bigotry and the economic issue are inextricably linked to what happened. I don't understand why many people here think that you have to completely ignore one to have a discussion about the other, especially considering widespread media reports (rather than simple anecdotal evidence) that the referendum result emboldened a lot of people to expose their bigotry in public.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chakab (Reply #22)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 01:59 PM

24. No argument there...

 

Just like Trump exploiting the same concerns here.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Human101948 (Reply #5)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 02:07 PM

25. So we should ignore blatant racism?

In the effort to make sure racists aren't called racists?

I think people are smart enough to know not everyone who voted for it is a racist xenophobe. But there are those reveling in the racist undertones of the whole thing who feel empowered to act out...those people are fair game.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Human101948 (Reply #5)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 03:01 PM

35. Even the anger over the consequences of neoliberal policies gets directed toward

the "other," so there is a significant element of xenophobia even in the different reasons why people voted Leave.

Anger at the oblivious establishment and the "elites" is also often expressed in complaints that their policies asnd pronouncements favor immigrants over British citizens, and even British citizens are viewed as "immigrants" if they are POC or of another ethnicity rather than descending from a long line of white Brits, since their parents, grandparents, or other further back forebears were usually immigrants.

They see British citizens who are of other races or ethnicities the same way Trump views the Orlando shooter, as not a "real" citizen but as "other" because his parents were immigrants.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PaulaFarrell (Original post)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 12:25 PM

4. Nothing scares a racist white anglo more than

 

Seeing a person of color before their 2nd cup of coffee first thing in the morning.

Disgusting

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lance Bass esquire (Reply #4)


Response to Lance Bass esquire (Reply #4)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 02:33 PM

28. And, sometimes, even other white people - if they have an accent.

My parents are from overseas (Argentina). It's often happened to them over the 30 years they've lived here that clerks greeted them with a big smile when they walked through the door; but that the second they opened their mouths, those smiles would turn into a odd combination of bewilderment, horror, and hatred.

C'est la vie.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to forest444 (Reply #28)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 02:49 PM

30. LOL ... at least the transaction began with a smiling greeting.

 

{sarcasm}

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #30)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 02:51 PM

32. You take what you can get, I suppose.

And after 30 years, they're certainly used to it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to forest444 (Reply #32)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 02:56 PM

34. LOL.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PaulaFarrell (Original post)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 12:27 PM

6. "He's from Barcelona . . . . . "

Britain has been desensitized towards its primal xenophobia.

Does anyone remember the mockery and abuse directed toward Manuel in "Fawlty Towers" and the flimsy excuse for his mistakes ("He's from Barcelona . . . . ". And he was from Spain, not Portugal, India, Pakistan, Syria, etc. Anyone who wasn't a WASP was/is fair game.

This is the issue, not BREXIT, primarily.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to no_hypocrisy (Reply #6)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 01:00 PM

9. I've been aware of the xenophobia

But it was generally latent, and just meant seeing a lot of England flags during the euros and world cup. This is new.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PaulaFarrell (Original post)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 12:35 PM

8. i am sorry your friend is experiencing that.

We do have a few extremists on DU who think they can reduce anything to banksters and elites as they put it. They are our equivalent of the tea party.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to drray23 (Reply #8)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 01:15 PM

15. Actually, it's the opposite

A few people here believe that you can't reduce Brexit to nothing "but" racism and xenophobia.

Never mind that the working class in first world countries have taken the largest hit by the movement of labor and capital. Surely, you're not going to dispute that?

Capital moves out to other countries like China and Vietnam and takes jobs with it, and cheap labor moves in and competes for the jobs that are left. The working classes suffer the most.

The left will ignore this at our own peril. If this isn't addressed, we're just going to see more movement to the right.

I don't know what the answer is, but I do know that ignoring the plight of the unemployed and underemployed by blaming it all on "racism" is not going to solve anything.

You see, I admit that racism and xenophobia are involved, while you seem to admit that nothing but racism and xenophobia are involved.

We ignore at our own peril.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Reply #15)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 01:27 PM

18. "A few people here believe that you can't reduce Brexit to nothing "but" racism and xenophobia."

Ah, the mythical "few people".

Like the traditional cavalry of "A lot of us think ..." when an argument's too weak to stand on its own.

Thanks for coming over to enlighten us. We'd really be lost without your input.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Denzil_DC (Reply #18)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 01:58 PM

23. Just more bullshit.

And never addressed what I put forth.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Reply #23)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 05:17 PM

40. Whatever.

I'm done with you. Good day.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Reply #15)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 02:53 PM

33. You really don't see the problem with your apologia for racism? ...

 

Never mind that the working class in first world countries have taken the largest hit by the movement of labor and capital. Surely, you're not going to dispute that?

Capital moves out to other countries like China and Vietnam and takes jobs with it, and cheap labor moves in and competes for the jobs that are left. The working classes suffer the most.


So the resulting racism and xenophobia is understandable, if not, excusable.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #33)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 04:43 PM

38. I'm not apologizing for racism!

I am saying that racism and xenophobia are not the only issue.

As long as the elites can look at the working classes in Britain and call them racists, they can feel better about not doing anything about their plight. Because some of them are racists..."Fuck 'em all?"

Because that's pretty much what I'm reading on this board, and that's really troubling.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Reply #38)

Wed Jun 29, 2016, 06:26 AM

46. you are seeing things that arent there

Fact is there are plenty of middle-class and wealthy people who voted out. I haven't seen anyone attacking poor people, I have seen people attacking bigotry and xenophobia.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PaulaFarrell (Original post)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 01:04 PM

11. Sorry about your friend!

And, while I don't think ALL Leave voters are xenophobic, there was certainly a very ugly xenophobia whipped up by the key leaders, especially fucking Farage. And some people, who were racist to start with but afraid of showing it too much, are now using the vote as an excuse for their foul behaviour.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PaulaFarrell (Original post)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 01:09 PM

13. I'm leaving for my first ever visit to Britain on Sunday

I'm starting to worry. My husband is half Iranian. This was a trip we've talked about for years, and now I just feel horrible about what is going on over there.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #13)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 01:14 PM

14. I'm so sorry.

If it's any consolation, incidents like these are growing at the moment, but still rare. We just can't be complacent about them, and this behaviour is going to have to be addressed and stomped on real soon.

I hope you have an enjoyable and peaceful trip. I'd have said that anyway, but it does have an added edge right now.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #13)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 01:18 PM

16. I'd like to say it eas isolated incidents but it seems to be spreading

I'm sure you will be fine though. I hope nothing spoils your trip.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #13)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 01:24 PM

17. If you don't mind me asking,

what parts of the UK are you planning on visiting?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Denzil_DC (Reply #17)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 01:47 PM

20. London & Oxford

A week there, and then we are going for a week over to Dublin.

I am more worried for folks who live there, but this did give me pause. Though it's not like we don't have bad shit here too, the white supremacist riots a couple of days ago where 5 people got stabbed is only a couple hours from where I live.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #20)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 02:11 PM

26. you will be fine there.

London is very cosmopolitan and oxford is a university town. Both places voted to stay.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #20)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 02:44 PM

29. You should be fine in large diverse "elitist" capital cities

and of course the university town of Oxford. There are plenty of non-Anglos there. And they will probably look down slightly at you for being American regardless of race.

It's the more working class neighborhoods and industrial cities that might be a problem. They have had incidents of violence and discrimination against immigrants.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to IronLionZion (Reply #29)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 02:50 PM

31. Scorn makes me chipper, I guess I'll survive that. ;)

Like I said, I was more concerned over my husband--and honestly, I apologize if my post came off as self-serving. I lurk in here, because the commentary on the news is invaluable.

I didn't mean to come off as worried that my vacation was at risk--the whole political and social situation has a lot of implications that I find concerning, as I'm sure everyone else in here does.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #31)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 05:15 PM

39. No, you didn't come across as self-serving at all.

As you rightly say, this crap isn't unique to here, or now. Chances are you both could walk around anywhere and have nothing but an enjoyable experience. Hell, I run the risk of some ned (ne'erdowell) giving me a hard time whenever I go out, and did a year ago, and years past.

My wife's American, BTW. If she gets in a taxi any time up here (Scotland, near Glasgow), after she's spoken, the conversation will usually go:

"You're American?"

"Yeah, how could you tell?"

"What part?"

"New York."

"Aha! I've visited there. Great place ... Do you know so-and-so?"

You might just have a similar experience!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #20)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 06:11 PM

43. These are the two cities that I know best; and I think there's very little chance of problems

Both very multicultural/international, and with large student populations. Over 70% in both cities voted to Remain.

There were a few incidents on London public transport just after the vote; but the biggest problems have been in parts of the North and some places in Wales.

Also: the people most at risk of being targeted are those seen as medium- or long-term residents in this country. People who are obviously tourists are unlikely to be targets.

Even under the unfortunate present circumstances, I would say the risk of racist violence is much less than in many parts of America.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LeftishBrit (Reply #43)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 06:41 PM

44. Very true.



Even under the unfortunate present circumstances, I would say the risk of racist violence is much less than in many parts of America.



Plus your country doesn't have our national obsession with firearms as an added "enhancement."

In CA, draconian anti-immigration laws 20 years ago fueled a backlash from Latinos, who were radicalized and started to vote in crazy record numbers--it's the reason we reduced the GOP voting strength down to 30% here. Perhaps something similar will happen in the UK?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PaulaFarrell (Original post)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 04:20 PM

36. I'm so sorry that happened to your friend.

And I'm so sorry about the people here who seem unable to take the words of the many of us who actually LIVE in this country and know what's happening. I am popping in on my self-imposed DU hiatus. I had to take a break because it was driving me crazy arguing with these...people. Be back in a few days when the Americans stop caring about Brexit and are on to the next thing.

Take care of yourself.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to auntpurl (Reply #36)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 05:44 PM

41. yep it's frustrating

I don't even understand it. I never dreamt people would come out en.masse to defend bigotry here.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to auntpurl (Reply #36)

Tue Jun 28, 2016, 06:00 PM

42. ... the next thing,

about which they will become instant experts!*

Welcome to the intertubes, auntpurl.



* To be fair, this is NOT restricted to Americans.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread