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Thu Jun 30, 2016, 01:52 AM

Host action against a member...

hi,

this morning i put my underpants over my trousers and used my superpowers to lock a DU member from posting on the UK board.

i did this because the member made a comment about a politician, denying their very obvious nationality and identity in a way that had the politicians' skin been brown, you'd see on Stormfront or FreakRepublic.

i'm happy to discuss this action with my fellow losts and other board users, and i think it would be best if we came to a common decision about whether that ban should remain, and whether any further action should take place.

cheers.

30 replies, 2892 views

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 30 replies Author Time Post
Reply Host action against a member... (Original post)
Ironing Man Jun 2016 OP
LeftishBrit Jun 2016 #1
TubbersUK Jun 2016 #2
PaulaFarrell Jun 2016 #3
Ghost Dog Jun 2016 #4
muriel_volestrangler Jun 2016 #5
Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #6
Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #8
Nihil Jun 2016 #7
LeftishBrit Jun 2016 #9
Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #10
Ken Burch Jun 2016 #23
Ghost Dog Jun 2016 #11
muriel_volestrangler Jun 2016 #12
Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #13
Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #16
auntpurl Jun 2016 #14
Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #15
auntpurl Jun 2016 #18
Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #19
auntpurl Jun 2016 #20
Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #21
Ironing Man Jun 2016 #17
Ken Burch Jun 2016 #22
LeftishBrit Jun 2016 #24
BooScout Jun 2016 #25
Ken Burch Jun 2016 #26
BooScout Jun 2016 #27
Ken Burch Jun 2016 #28
BooScout Jun 2016 #29
Ken Burch Jun 2016 #30

Response to Ironing Man (Original post)

Thu Jun 30, 2016, 02:38 AM

1. Weighing in...

as I said in my pm, I do disagree with this decision.

I think that Ken is a well-intentioned ally, who makes interesting contributions whether I always agree with them or not; and I would not wish to deter interested Americans from posting on this forum.

I do find that particular post objectionable, and inappropriate to the UK forum, especially at a time when the UK is at risk of breaking up. But I don't think it was intended to be anti-Welsh or anti-Scottish; I think that it was a flippant remark made by analogy with the concept of moving from one state to another in America.

I think it would be appropriate to ask Ken to delete that post, but not to block him, unless he stands by it and refuses to delete it.

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Response to LeftishBrit (Reply #1)

Thu Jun 30, 2016, 02:40 AM

2. +1

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Response to Ironing Man (Original post)

Thu Jun 30, 2016, 03:34 AM

3. I dunno

seemed like he was being ironic to me. I don't think he meant it to denigrate anybody, and anyway, as a Texan, I stand by the right to say Bush is NOT a Texan, because he was born in Connecticut...

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Response to Ironing Man (Original post)

Thu Jun 30, 2016, 03:43 AM

4. Banning for this is inappropiate.

Ban should be lifted. Poster should be asked to self-delete the post in question, or it could be alerted and removed... You may then like to self-delete your rather uncivil response, Ironing Man, too.

Ken Burch is a valuable contributor to the group.

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Response to Ironing Man (Original post)

Thu Jun 30, 2016, 04:16 AM

5. I agree with my 2 fellow hosts above - ask Ken to delete it

It's an unhelpful remark in the context of a question of whether the UK should break up, and 'self-loathing' is a phrase that make me uneasy. But I don't see any malice behind it that would mean Ken shouldn't be able to post here.

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Response to Ironing Man (Original post)

Thu Jun 30, 2016, 06:21 AM

6. When we decided by concensus that you folks were to be mods,

I believe we left it to you to sort these things out collectively as you see fit.

I think it would have been better if you'd done that first, not least because you're the "junior member" on the team. There are at least two others on the team who have more experience of DU and acting as hosts and mods, and it might have been helpful to draw on their experience.

I'd rather we didn't have to second-guess all your actions as mods whenever something happens, but applause for bringing it here so we can clear this up.

I completely disagree with banning Ken for this. He's obviously worked up about things right now, some of his posts may be provocative and he may bang on a bit - but then I'm guilty of that, too! And so are others. We've had quite a few pretty intemperate allegations made in the last few days - Corbyn's an anti-semite, for instance, which is demonstrably untrue. And these from people who aren't regulars on the UK Group. They've been allowed to stand and nobody else has been blocked.

If Ken's post crossed what you consider a line, it could have been alerted on in the usual way, the thread could have been locked, you could have tackled him as a mod on that thread and asked him to delete - there were a number of courses of action, but I think unless it was a deeply urgent problem that had to be addressed right there and then, you should have discussed it with the other mods before anybody took any action.

As I said, you four are the mods, it's up to you how you run this group while you hold those posts, but that's my input as a humble poster. If I had a vote, it would be to reinstate Ken immediately.

ETA: BTW, I've just looked at his post. I'm Welsh-born and bred, nowadays more or less a naturalized Scot. I saw nothing wrong in what he posted last night, and I can't see what's wrong with it today. It was obviously a sardonic riff on the concept of that old trope, the "self-loathing Jew". His being Scots-born and Welsh-brought up doesn't necessarily make him any more palatable than any of the other Tories, though perhaps a little more interesting as a change. This may touch on issues I'm insensitive to, so maybe someone could explain what's so bad about it.

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Response to Denzil_DC (Reply #6)

Thu Jun 30, 2016, 06:46 AM

8. And not to add to any pile-on,

but having reflected, your response, Ironing Man was a personal attack, and therefore hideworthy under the forum rules, never mind the group ones.

I'm not going to alert, but maybe you should self-delete.

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Response to Ironing Man (Original post)

Thu Jun 30, 2016, 06:30 AM

7. Ridiculous over-reaction.

 

(Especially from a 160-post wonder who posts crap like "you, and your post, are a nasty piece of work" in response.)

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Response to Ironing Man (Original post)

Thu Jun 30, 2016, 07:13 AM

9. Now, come on, everyone, let's set a badly-needed example to our country's noble leaders...

by negotiating a decision without falling out among ourselves!

Do we agree that:

(1) Ken is un-banned on condition that he deletes the offensive post

(2) Ironing Man edits or deletes his own post to take account of that.

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Response to LeftishBrit (Reply #9)

Thu Jun 30, 2016, 07:25 AM

10. I'd rather we didn't put these things to a vote in future unless it really opens up new ground.

We agreed by acclaim that you're the mods. If you do something we disapprove of in future, I imagine we'll let you know through whatever channels are within the rules (I'm not clear about the definition of the new offence of "interfering with moderation"!).

If I have a vote, it's for the following:

(1) Let Ken's post stand because - as a Welshman moved to Scotland, the exact opposite of the trajectory of Crabb's - I see nothing wrong with it. It wasn't a zinger, but then plenty of the immoderate guff I post falls flat. If it offends people for reasons I'm blind to, please explain to me what I'm missing.

(2) Reinstate Ken immediately.

(3) Ask Ironing Man to edit his post to make it comply with forum rules and set some sort of example, or just self-delete it.

(4) If he won't do that, as the moderator team, consider whether he can remain as the junior member.

(5) If you don't feel you can do (4) yourselves and decide bring it to us for a decision, I'll vote to remove him from the team. That doesn't have to happen.

I was an advocate for Ironing Man as a mod when we discussed all that. He was keen to do it, and I felt it might help balance the team as a few saw it as "lefty"-dominated. I also felt he'd conducted himself with civility in his interactions I'd seen, including with me in exchanges that could have gotten quite heated. This is one transgression that makes me regret that, but we all make mistakes. I'm not calling for a head, but I'm not best pleased at the moment.

One reason I wanted mods for this forum was to help it run smoothly and keep things civil. This isn't "running smoothly".

Let's not descend into meta over something that should have been beyond trivial - there's too much of that about at the moment! We have bigger fish to fry in our small pan here.

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Response to Denzil_DC (Reply #10)

Thu Jun 30, 2016, 10:32 AM

23. Thank you, Denzil. n/t.

 

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Response to LeftishBrit (Reply #9)

Thu Jun 30, 2016, 07:32 AM

11. Agree.

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Response to LeftishBrit (Reply #9)

Thu Jun 30, 2016, 07:45 AM

12. I agree the best thing now would be for reinstatement and both posts to be self-deleted

Ken's isn't one I would have alerted on, but there's nothing in it apart from what offended Ironing Man, so there isn't a big need for it to stay; and IM's reply is an attack on it, which then gets a bit personal.

To my fellow hosts: I think it's better if we discuss issues like this via DU mail first (annoyingly, there's no facility to send mail to more than one person at a time, so I recommend pasting it in to mails to each fellow mod). If there's something extremely obvious, like a commercial spammer or Tory troll (there's been a Brexit one around, I think, but I'm not sure if they ever found this group; I've just seen 'auto-removed' posts for them in GD or LBN) then a host can go ahead with an immediate block. With discussion, we might decide it's a misunderstanding, or something that could be dealt with by asking them to change their posts, before going to a ban.

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Response to Ironing Man (Original post)

Thu Jun 30, 2016, 07:54 AM

13. Can I also draw the mod team's attention to

posts on the "With just one word, Labour MPs reveal utter contempt for Corbyn supporters" thread.

I don't want to call out the poster, but I'd like a decision from you on whether that poster should be blocked. If you want me to explain why, PM me, but I'd rather you just looked at it and used your own discretion.

Sheesh.

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Response to Denzil_DC (Reply #13)

Thu Jun 30, 2016, 08:20 AM

16. Muriel's PMed me.

The post in question has been self-deleted, so I withdraw my complaint (in future, I'll probably do that by PM rather than on open forum).

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Response to Ironing Man (Original post)

Thu Jun 30, 2016, 07:55 AM

14. Your reply was a personal attack.

I didn't like the original post in question, but I don't think it broke the rules. Your reply, however, did.

I try really hard not to be biased against people with low post counts, but I do think group hosts (like forum mods) should have more experience with DU and how things work here.

I hope the poster in question is reinstated and you delete your reply to him.

I also agree with those above that these decisions should not be put up for open debate, not least of which because this thread violates the "do not interfere with forum moderation" rule. This is meta discussion and should be decided amongst the mods. If group members then disagree with decisions made, they can message the group hosts.

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Response to auntpurl (Reply #14)

Thu Jun 30, 2016, 08:18 AM

15. I think if the mods ask for our input,

we're not really "interfering".

But it's a jury call, not mine, and I'd rather not have to even spend time thinking about it and discussing it. I trust the team as a whole, that's why I put some of their names forward. Thinking about it, I believe I put all their names forward! Call me an old busybody (with a fair bit of experience of moderation, both online and in real life).

I think this thread may have been useful in setting some ground rules anyway.

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Response to Denzil_DC (Reply #15)

Thu Jun 30, 2016, 08:33 AM

18. No, I meant

this thread (not the replies to it), despite that it was posted by a group host, violates the "don't interfere" rule, which is a clumsily written rule in my opinion because I think what the admins really want to avoid is "meta" - talking about the boards on the boards. It leads to drama.

I too trust the team and respect their decision.

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Response to auntpurl (Reply #18)

Thu Jun 30, 2016, 08:38 AM

19. I think we're agreed.

Glad to see you back, BTW.

Anyway, enough drama. I'm an inch away from making another complaint (about the same poster as above *sigh*), but I better go do some work instead.

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Response to Denzil_DC (Reply #19)

Thu Jun 30, 2016, 08:39 AM

20. Yes, me too.

Thanks for the welcome back. After the events of this morning (in real life, not DU) I am now so totally confused I feel I need to be with other people (online) wandering around in the wilderness together.

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Response to auntpurl (Reply #20)

Thu Jun 30, 2016, 08:42 AM

21. I've been so glad to have DU, especially this small corner of it,

the last week or so.

But all this nonsense is going to be going on for the foreseeable, and I'm going to have to learn to pace myself. I can't keep shouting at the telly and feeling like I want to punch something all day every day, in between cracking into ribald laughter at the absurdities.

Back atcha.

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Response to Ironing Man (Original post)

Thu Jun 30, 2016, 08:33 AM

17. in the light...

in light of the above comments and discussion, i shall reverse my action and delete my own comment.

i shall also have a conversation and consultation with my fellow - for the moment - hosts about the best way forward.

i am grateful to those who took the time to put their views across.

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Response to Ironing Man (Original post)

Thu Jun 30, 2016, 10:31 AM

22. I posted out of some confusion and apologize for my wording.

 

Last edited Thu Jun 30, 2016, 11:23 AM - Edit history (1)

My intent was simply to make a comment about that politician as an individual, not about his ethnic ancestry(an ancestry I share).

And most especially, I did not mean to do anything to inflame relations between the Scots and the "Sassenach", at a time when a second Indyref is a real possibility.

I simply shouldn't have phrased it as I did and gladly apologize.

Thank you for unblocking me.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #22)

Thu Jun 30, 2016, 02:21 PM

24. Thanks Ken; and glad to see you back.

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Response to Ironing Man (Original post)

Thu Jun 30, 2016, 03:07 PM

25. All I can say is.....

It's refreshing to see such a civilised discussion on this matter!

I'm going back to sipping my new discovery of Canary Island Honey Rum and watching the sun set over the cliffs of the Canaries.

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Response to BooScout (Reply #25)

Thu Jun 30, 2016, 03:39 PM

26. And then you can check out THIS website:

 

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #26)

Thu Jun 30, 2016, 03:56 PM

27. I'd rather drink more honey rum....

....and pretend I don't have to fly back to the UK on Tuesday!

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Response to BooScout (Reply #27)

Thu Jun 30, 2016, 04:54 PM

28. Can't say I blame you.

 

It was just the image of "doing the triple Canary" that struck me-sipping a Canary in the Canaries while reading The Canary.

How is it there today?

I've heard wonderful things about those islands over the years.

(weird, somewhat tangential story... in the run-up to the Fascist coup known in the MSM as "the Spanish Civil War", Francisco Franco's fellow generals and rivals for post-coup power would mock him by implying(in the well-known military tradition) that he might be gay. They gave him the secret nickname "Miss Canary Islands of 1935".

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #28)

Thu Jun 30, 2016, 04:59 PM

29. It's gorgeous here today...

Sunny skies and highs in the 80s (mid to upper 20s for Celsius minded). I'm on Tenerife and loving every minute of it!

Interesting you should mention Franco....I was just reading about how he planned the Spanish Civil War from the Canaries earlier today.

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Response to BooScout (Reply #29)

Thu Jun 30, 2016, 05:00 PM

30. IIRC, Franco was actually born there. n/t.

 

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