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Wed Mar 29, 2017, 07:59 AM

May's Article 50 letter in full (Trigger Warning)

On 23 June last year, the people of the United Kingdom voted to leave the European Union. As I have said before, that decision was no rejection of the values we share as fellow Europeans. Nor was it an attempt to do harm to the European Union or any of the remaining member states. On the contrary, the United Kingdom wants the European Union to succeed and prosper. Instead, the referendum was a vote to restore, as we see it, our national self-determination. We are leaving the European Union, but we are not leaving Europe – and we want to remain committed partners and allies to our friends across the continent.

Earlier this month, the United Kingdom Parliament confirmed the result of the referendum by voting with clear and convincing majorities in both of its Houses for the European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill. The Bill was passed by Parliament on 13 March and it received Royal Assent from Her Majesty The Queen and became an Act of Parliament on 16 March.

Today, therefore, I am writing to give effect to the democratic decision of the people of the United Kingdom. I hereby notify the European Council in accordance with Article 50(2) of the Treaty on European Union of the United Kingdom’s intention to withdraw from the European Union. In addition, in accordance with the same Article 50(2) as applied by Article 106a of the Treaty Establishing the European Atomic Energy Community, I hereby notify the European Council of the United Kingdom’s intention to withdraw from the European Atomic Energy Community. References in this letter to the European Union should therefore be taken to include a reference to the European Atomic Energy Community.

This letter sets out the approach of Her Majesty’s Government to the discussions we will have about the United Kingdom’s departure from the European Union and about the deep and special partnership we hope to enjoy – as your closest friend and neighbour – with the European Union once we leave. We believe that these objectives are in the interests not only of the United Kingdom but of the European Union and the wider world too.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/prime-ministers-letter-to-donald-tusk-triggering-article-50/prime-ministers-letter-to-donald-tusk-triggering-article-50

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Arrow 22 replies Author Time Post
Reply May's Article 50 letter in full (Trigger Warning) (Original post)
Denzil_DC Mar 2017 OP
TexasMommaWithAHat Mar 2017 #1
Denzil_DC Mar 2017 #2
TexasMommaWithAHat Mar 2017 #3
Denzil_DC Mar 2017 #5
TexasMommaWithAHat Mar 2017 #7
Denzil_DC Mar 2017 #8
TexasMommaWithAHat Mar 2017 #11
LeftishBrit Mar 2017 #12
LeftishBrit Mar 2017 #9
TexasMommaWithAHat Mar 2017 #10
TexasMommaWithAHat Mar 2017 #13
Denzil_DC Mar 2017 #14
TexasMommaWithAHat Mar 2017 #15
Denzil_DC Mar 2017 #16
TexasMommaWithAHat Mar 2017 #17
T_i_B Mar 2017 #18
yallerdawg Mar 2017 #4
Denzil_DC Mar 2017 #6
Denzil_DC Mar 2017 #19
steve2470 Apr 2017 #20
LeftishBrit Apr 2017 #21
Dworkin Apr 2017 #22

Response to Denzil_DC (Original post)

Wed Mar 29, 2017, 08:46 AM

1. Their business.

I can see negatives and positives in this, and have no problems with Britain asserting their independence from the EU.

I heard Ms. May's speech on BBC radio this morning, and was saddened that she never mentioned the U.S. Were it not for Trump, I'm quite sure the U.S. would have been mentioned as a friend, ally, and trading partner. Prior to Trump, the U.S. was usually mentioned.

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Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Reply #1)

Wed Mar 29, 2017, 08:57 AM

2. May's already sucked up to Trump when they met early on in his reign.

So far, all other avenues she and her bold Brexiteers have followed looking for trade deals have included the proviso from the other parties that freedom of movement (for employment) must be included.

So that will potentially leave the UK at the mercy of "Mr. Dealmaker" Trump, who doesn't know diddly about the ins and outs of international trade and isn't known for striking fair deals with business partners in the past.

Forgive those of us who haven't drunk the Brexit Kool-Aid if we don't find this a particularly attractive prospect (you're replying in the UK Group, so it feels funny for it to be referred to as "their business".

As for "independence" from the EU, are you having a laugh? May's already backpedaling (as reality slowly dawned) from her earlier stance that "no deal is better than a bad deal" and that the UK could have its cake and eat it (trade with Europe without freedom of movement). As it stands, and as the government have conceded, that would mean the UK having even less of this independence, as it would have to comply with EU trade rules without, unlike now, any way of influencing them.

Reaction to part of today's May speech to Parliament:




Jim Waterson ✔ @jimwaterson

Theresa May says she knows UK companies will have to obey by rules set by EU over which UK will have no control. "We will accept that."

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Response to Denzil_DC (Reply #2)

Wed Mar 29, 2017, 09:03 AM

3. As I wrote, I have no problems with Britain

asserting its independence from the EU.

I have no desire to share control of the U.S. with Canada (much as I love Canada ), Mexico, and Central America, so I understand the desire for independence despite the fact that they will be traveling on a bumpy road for some time.


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Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Reply #3)

Wed Mar 29, 2017, 09:09 AM

5. And as I wrote,

this idea of "Britain asserting its independence" is a myth.

And if you're talking about us or addressing we who live in the UK, you might be as well referring to us as "you" rather than "they" etc. - it can concentrate the mind a little.

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Response to Denzil_DC (Reply #5)

Wed Mar 29, 2017, 10:05 AM

7. Are you a citizen of Britain?

I lived in the Greater Manchester area years ago, but I was only a guest in the country.

By the way, why the trigger warning?

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Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Reply #7)

Wed Mar 29, 2017, 10:09 AM

8. Yes, I am.

My wife is American. Her own immigration status is in doubt because of recent developments in the UK (not just Brexit, which doesn't directly affect her status, but it doesn't help the general mood and trash media attitude to any immigrants whatsoever).

On sovereignty, here's one-time government minister Michael Heseltine in interview with Jon Snow yesterday:




Jack Jazz @JackkJazz

#Article50 #PMQs The reality of Brexit


"The letter will represent the biggest sacrifice of British sovereignty that I can remember."

ETA, since you asked: Article 50 is widely referred to as being "triggered". (Also, since a number of us who post on this group regularly are extremely upset, annoyed, aghast at, and vehemently opposed to Brexit, the pun seemed apt.)

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Response to Denzil_DC (Reply #8)

Wed Mar 29, 2017, 10:36 AM

11. I get the pun

In recent months, there had been a number of "trigger warnings" posted here, so my mind immediately went to the usual reasons for the warning. arghh

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Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Reply #7)

Wed Mar 29, 2017, 10:37 AM

12. This is the UK forum; I have always lived here

I live in southern England; Denzil, I believe, lives in Scotland.

I have quite a few relatives and friends in the USA especially Massachusetts, California and Michigan.

I imagine that the 'trigger warning' was because either Brexit or Theresa May on their own, let alone combined, have extremely bad effects on the blood pressure of UK DUers. And because Article 50 is always referred to as being 'triggered', which sounds just about as dangerous as it is!

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Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Reply #3)

Wed Mar 29, 2017, 10:31 AM

9. Most countries nowadays are in some sort of trading bloc



And we are not going to be more 'independent'; we are going to be increasingly dependent on Trump, China, and anyone else who will deign to occasionally trade with us.

Look up 'UKIP' and 'Farage' to see where the strongest support for Brexit came from. It comes from very much the same stable as the Trump vote.

Note that it was a very narrow vote (52-48%) - well below what most countries would regard as an adequate threshold for a constitutional amendment. And only two of the four constituent countries of the UK voted for it.

I don't expect you in Texas to have problems with it (but imagine how you'd feel if Texas seceded from the USA because it didn't like the federal government's more liberal provisions; or if the USA withdrew from the UN). But those of us on the UK forum have major problems with it. And we don't all agree on everything - the forum includes Labour, LibDem, Green, SNP and Plaid Cymru voters - but we are pretty much unanimous on absolutely dreading what will happen now.

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Response to LeftishBrit (Reply #9)

Wed Mar 29, 2017, 10:34 AM

10. I'm a regular BBC listener.

I am familiar with UKIP and Farage, and despite the fact that the strongest support came from the right wing, I'm not going to say I'm opposed to it, since I understand the desire to be independent.

And, sure, I don't envy any of you the road you are about to embark on, but I don't think it's going to be the end of the world as you know it, either.

Best wishes.

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Response to LeftishBrit (Reply #9)

Wed Mar 29, 2017, 10:42 AM

13. And most trading blocks don't want to build

armies, either.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37317765

The EU is much, much more than a trading block, and I, frankly, understand the desire not to let the German leader control my country's destiny.

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Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Reply #13)

Wed Mar 29, 2017, 10:58 AM

14. Well, NATO leaders already "control my country's destiny".

You want done with NATO, too?

Our "nuclear deterrent" wouldn't function without the US, so we don't have a whole bunch of control over that either.

I'm pretty sanguine about the idea of a European Army. Despite the myths, the EU setup's actually more democratic than the UK on a number of issues. I can't see it being a major aggressively interventionist force simply because of the number of actors who'd have to agree on any course of action. And the Germans ceased being a serious boogeyman beyond the fringe quite a while back.

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Response to Denzil_DC (Reply #14)

Wed Mar 29, 2017, 11:25 AM

15. Not "the Germans"

Angela Merkel. The woman opens her mouth and all of Europe is affected. She might not be the stupid ass that is Trump, but she wields way too much influence over Europe.

And, no, I don't want "done" with NATO, but I also wouldn't want another layer of military, either.

It's been nice talking to you. Have a great day. I hope to visit your country again, someday.

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Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Reply #15)

Wed Mar 29, 2017, 11:33 AM

16. The way things are going, the country you visit will likely be a lot nastier and poorer.

And what's with the Merkel hate? She's one of the few adults in the room at the moment, and hardly a warmonger.

If the UK hadn't decided to sit on the sidelines of the EU constantly moaning snobbishly and acting like it was such a special case that everybody else should kiss its boots and give it whatever it wanted whenever it wanted it and expect little or nothing in return, UK politicians could have been as influential. That was our opportunity to miss. Merkel really is the least of our worries.

For someone who came in here saying you were fine with the UK exercising its "independence" and championing our mythical "sovereignty", you sound like you have quite a few axes to grind.

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Response to Denzil_DC (Reply #16)

Wed Mar 29, 2017, 01:03 PM

17. No axes to grind. Just an opinion

based on my own personal philosophy of governance, so what happens in the UK is only "my business" as a matter of interest.

Good day.

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Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Reply #15)

Wed Mar 29, 2017, 01:18 PM

18. Wrong about Merkel

She's better than any of the clowns in the Tories and Labour by some considerable distance and we in Britain would be incredibly lucky to have a leader of anything close to that quality.

Germany is actually a really good model for other countries to follow these days. It may be an unfashionable to say, but the political stuff that's in vogue right now is quite frankly utter rubbish.

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Response to Denzil_DC (Original post)

Wed Mar 29, 2017, 09:07 AM

4. Lessons learned recently.

Really bad shit can happen when good people who know better sit at home on their asses when they should be voting!

There are no 'do overs' in a democracy.

Just 'next time.'

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Response to Denzil_DC (Original post)

Wed Mar 29, 2017, 09:30 AM

6. Tusk's speech in reply:




Andy Dangerfield ✔ @andydangerfield

"What can I add... we already miss you" - @eucopresident Donald Tusk reacts to #Article50 being triggered

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Response to Denzil_DC (Original post)

Fri Mar 31, 2017, 11:28 PM

19. The EU Council's negotiating principles









Principle 22 is fun:



The media and politicians seem to be acting all surprised. Don't know why - they seemed to have their finger on the pulse of opinion within the Spanish government when it came to vetoes, and were keen for everybody to know about it.

It just turns out that it's not Scotland's accession to the EU the Spanish would veto, it's any Brexit deal that doesn't meet Spain's approval about arrangements for Gibraltar. As pointed out in this very DU group on a number of occasions.

There are a few other aspects that seem to also be causing surprise and a little consternation ("EU will ban UK from cutting tax or scrapping regulation as price of trade deal".

Text version of the principles here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/31/full-eus-draft-guidelines-brexit-negotiations/

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Response to Denzil_DC (Original post)

Sat Apr 1, 2017, 04:19 PM

20. My best wishes to all you Brits during this extremely stressful time

I watch the BBC on a regular basis and I can just feel the overwhelming anxiety of many Brits. It's like the USA telling Canada we are building a freaking wall. Inconceivable. My take is, the Brexit vote was based primarily on the immigration issue.

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Response to steve2470 (Reply #20)

Tue Apr 11, 2017, 03:55 AM

21. Thanks for your support!

A combination of anti-immigrant attitudes (always Britain's Achilles heel), and a weird sort of nostalgia, I'd say: e.g. one of the biggest predictors of a Leave vote was support for the restoration of capital punishment! Plus the fact that most people - including me until very recently - know very little about the EU; and that we were told a lot of alternative facts, or in other words LIES!

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Response to Denzil_DC (Original post)

Tue Apr 11, 2017, 04:30 AM

22. I voted remain

Hi,

IMHO, to favour the UK leaving the EU is to misunderstand the last century of politics in Western Europe and the painful progress towards cooperation and peace.

May's crap about being the 'friend' of the EU is disingenuous and pays no respect to the haters who put us in this invidious position.

Call it what it is.

D.

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