Alistair Carmichael faces £150,000 bill after attempt to oust him

[Denzil_DC]

Alistair Carmichael, the former Scotland secretary, is facing a legal bill of about £150,000 after narrowly surviving a bid to have him ousted as MP for Orkney and Shetland.

Two judges sitting as an election court in Edinburgh rejected Carmichael’s application to have his legal costs awarded against four constituents who had challenged his election victory after he lied about the leak of a civil service memo.

...

Carmichael faced a rare election court case after authorising the leak of a Scotland Office memo to the Telegraph that recorded allegations that Nicola Sturgeon, the first minister, secretly wanted David Cameron to win the 2015 general election.

The claims, based on a briefing to a civil servant by the then French consul general to Edinburgh, Pierre-Alain Coffinier, some days after the first minister had met the French ambassador, Sylvie Bermann, were immediately denied by Sturgeon. Coffinier also denied she had made those remarks.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/08/alistair-carmichael-scotland-150000-legal-bill-election-court-leaked-memo?CMP=share_btn_tw

I don't know how much noticeable media coverage this case has been getting outside Scotland.

Basically, the election court found that Carmichael had lied repeatedly about the leaked note that sought to discredit Sturgeon at the height of the 2015 UK election campaign - both during and after the event, including in the court itself - but on a technicality, he escaped being dismissed as an MP because it was found that he had done so in an official capacity, not a personal one. A politician is apparently entirely free to lie in the course of his duties about anything, but not about his personal character or conduct. No, me neither.

Prior to this finding, he had been typically bombastic, dismissing the case as a vexatious SNP plot and declaring that he was going to seek severely punitive damages against his four constituents.

Anyone who witnessed his performances in committee with members of the Scottish Parliament while he was Secretary of State for Scotland will not be surprised that (a) he's a legally confirmed liar, and (b) he's arrogant and petty.

[LeftishBrit]

1. I do remember the rumours about Sturgeon..

I have to admit that I know little about Alistair Carmichael, and to be honest, whenever I'd heard of him, had always slightly confused him with Alistair Campbell (yes, I know they're not even the same party).

Bashing Nicola Sturgeon seems to be one of the top national media sports at least in England, and Labour's defeat was at least partly due to hysteria about how the SNP might influence Labour in a hung parliament. So I am not surprised that Carmichael's lies gained traction.

[Denzil_DC]

3. The lies were effectively blown out of the water within minutes

when Sturgeon, who's personally active on Twitter, immediately challenged the Telegraph journalist who wrote the attempted smear because he hadn't sought a response from her before publishing (even Sun journalists were boggling vocally on Twitter about this!), insisting she'd have told him it was untrue if he'd done so. This was very soon backed up by the French diplomat she supposedly had the exchange with.

In short order, a minor diplomatic incident erupted between the French, and the Scottish Office and Westminster (the Scottish Office is Westminster's colonial outpost in Scotland). The French weren't happy about having their internal discussions leaked, especially for attempted electoral gain, and even less so about having their diplomat's words and stance blatantly misreported and misrepresented.

It only gained traction among those with a vested interest in believing it in the first place. But it was only after the election, as the noose of an official inquiry tightened, that Carmichael eventually owned up.

As for Carmichael himself, I'm not surprised you hadn't heard much about him. He was a big (bullying and useless) noise in the Scottish Office, which won't have gained him particular prominence Down South, he's been the last Lib Dem MP in Scotland since the 2015 election, and has a wafer-thin majority and a reputation in tatters.

[Bad Dog]

2. I read an article on teletext saying he won't be getting his fees paid.

He's not a very nice man, but he's a Liberal, what do you expect? His lies about Sturgeon are nothing compared to Clegg's solemn promise not to increase tuition fees.

[T_i_B]

4. Of the 8 remaining Lib Dem MP's...

....two (Clegg & Carmichael) are totally discredited. Then you've got Farron, who's been ineffective as Lib Dem leader, Norman Lamb, Greg Mulholland (who I actually rate very highly) and 3 others I've never heard of.

It's probably going to take the Lib Dems decades to recover from the damage wrought by the "Orange Book" clique. And that's not good as we do need a strong 3rd party to hold the Tories and Labour to account. As it is we went from 3 party politics to 2 party politics in 2015.

[Bad Dog]

5. I live in a two way marginal Lib/Dem Tory.

Unfortunately my bit of Southampton is actually covered by Romsey. The Liberals are always trying to get my vote, they've never got it, mostly because their MP, Sandra Gidley, was as bad as any Tory. She visited my daughter's school, and got very upset when challenged by a 14 year old, dismissing everything she'd said as "Rubbish." That's no way to engage young people in politics.

Out of curiosity I emailed Farron asking what he'd do to get my vote. And I told what made that so difficult, primarily Clegg's huge lie and all this crap about them being noble and having put country first. If anything that pisses me off the most. There was nothing noble about it, they were hungry for power, and if they could be honest about that I might start forgiving them.

I got a reply stating Farron had personally voted against tuition fees along with a list of their "accomplishments," in office. Guess I'll not be voting tactically next election either.

[T_i_B]

6. I've had Lib Dem MP's before now

To be honest, I'd happily take Bob Russell (who was the Lib Dem MP for Colchester until the General Election wipeout) over my current Labour MP any day. Not perfect by any stretch, but I knew that if I contacted him about an issue it would be dealt with quickly and fairly.

However, with the Lib Dems in my local area having been wiped out by the antics of of a certain MP in a neighbouring constituency, I can't see the Lib Dems recovering for a number of years.

[Denzil_DC]

7. I've mentioned before

that I've voted Lib Dem in the Westminster elections on a number of occasions (for Alan Reid - a decent enough constituency MP and not corrupt, just unspectacular).

His nearest rival at the time was a Tory, so it wasn't that difficult a decision. Even if the massive surge in SNP support hadn't made that sort of tactical vote a non-factor in the last election (Brendan O'Hara is now our MP, and a good guy), I'd have had serious problems voting for Reid again, not just because of the coalition, but because his votes went increasingly against some national issues I hold dear (like Trident, fracking and some benefit changes), though he claimed to have been a rebel on certain votes when challenged.

His vast number of election addresses (about one a week in the later stages) mentioned the SNP (not in glowing terms) about ten times as often as they did the Lib Dems or Reid's own record - never a good look.

He's now desperately attempting to win a seat as an MSP at Holyrood in this year's elections, mainly by letter-writing in the local papers to bash the SNP - evidently a slow learner.

[T_i_B]

11. The other Lib Dem constituency I've lived in is Sheffield Hallam

I grew up there, and during the coalition I had to explain a number of times on here that however bad Nick Clegg is, he wasn't going to lose his seat owing to a very large majority, boundary changes, and a great deal of anti-local Labour feeling in that part of Sheffield.

Clegg did hold on, although it was notable that the Lib Dems threw all the manpower and resources they could at Sheffield Hallam, whilst offering little to no competition in any of the surrounding areas.

[Bad Dog]

8. The ironic thing is that had I lived about half a mile down the road.

I would have voted for Chris Huhne, but I could never have voted for Sandra Gidley who was our MP at the time.

On another thread there was talk of gerrymandering with boundary changes. Southampton has two MPs but we've also got two large areas that are subsumed by neighbouring constituencies. Swaythling and Basset, with a big council estate, are part of Romsey, and Woolston, which has Labour councillors on the city council, is part of Eastleigh.

[muriel_volestrangler]

9. I used to be in Gidley's constituency, and found her fine

I wrote to her on a few occasions, and her stances on issues were anything but Tory, and she got replies out of government ministers for me.

Southampton is 'the wrong size' - too big for 2 constituencies on its own, not big enough for 3. There'll always be different ideas on how to split it up.

Surely you don't mean Woolston - right at the mouth of the Itchen?

City of Southampton wards of Bargate, Bitterne, Bitterne Park, Harefield, Peartree, Sholing, and Woolston

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southampton_Itchen_%28UK_Parliament_constituency%29

Borough of Eastleigh wards of Bishopstoke East, Bishopstoke West, Botley, Bursledon and Old Netley, Eastleigh Central, Eastleigh North, Eastleigh South, Fair Oak and Horton Heath, Hamble-le-Rice and Butlocks Heath, Hedge End Grange Park, Hedge End St John’s, Hedge End Wildern, Netley Abbey, West End North, and West End South.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastleigh_%28UK_Parliament_constituency%29

[Bad Dog]

10. Gidley visited by daughter's school and was extremely rude to her.

She dismissed a 14 year old's political opinion as " a load of rubbish," and she came home very upset. People may disagree politically but rubbishing a teenager who is starting to show an interest in politics is not the way to go about things.

I did mean Woolston, and it looks like I'm out of date. It used to be part of Eastleigh's constituency but not any more. Where I live used to be part of Southampton Test, now it's part of Romsey.

I apologise for getting my facts wrong.

From wiki.

1983-1997: The Borough of Eastleigh (the wards of Bishopstoke, Botley, Bursledon, Chandler’s Ford, Eastleigh Central, Eastleigh North, Eastleigh South, Eastleigh West, Fair Oak, Hamble, Hedge End St John's, Hedge End Wildern, Hiltingbury East, Hiltingbury West, Hound, West End North, and West End South), and the City of Southampton ward of Woolston.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastleigh_(UK_Parliament_constituency)

[Ken Burch]

12. As I understand it, Carmichael is the last Liberal Democrat MP from Scotland.

This raises a real question...will the LibDems be willing to risk leaving their party with no Westminster representation in Scotland at all in order to disassociate themselves from the disgrace Carmichael has brought on the party?

I can picture the guy threatening to resign his seat immediately and force a by-election(in which the LibDems would almost certainly lose to the SNP)if they sanction him at all.

On the other hand, his party has to wonder if they have any chance of holding the seat at the next general election(or of gaining any other Scottish seats)if they let Carmichael fight it as their candidate in West Orkney and Shetland.

Yet another reason I do not envy the current LibDem leader his job.

[Denzil_DC]

13. Last I heard,

Willie Rennie, the Scottish Lib Dem leader, said he'd be having a word with Carmichael after the Scottish elections.

Having clung on as hard as he has, I don't see Carmichael resigning any time soon, even if sanctioned by the party, which is unlikely at this late stage. On the other hand, he's still being investigated for three breaches of the parliamentary Code of Conduct ...

[Bad Dog]

14. Even if he gets kicked out of the party he can sit as an independent.

Not that I think he would get kicked out, the Libdems have precious few seats as it is, but after spending all this time gripping on to his seat for dear life I can't see him going quietly. The best we can hope for is him getting deselected before the next election.