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ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
Sun Mar 2, 2014, 05:17 AM Mar 2014

Last call for XP . . .

If anyone is thinking of installing XP on a hard drive, now is the time, for as Micro$haft is fond of reminding us, XP support ends March 8. That means it will be very difficult to auto-update a fresh XP with the hundreds of updates it's accumulated since its last release -- 206, by my count, the last time I installed it.

Unfortunately, even if you have a retail XP license, it's basically impossible to install XP on a new Windows 8 machine without nuking Windows 8, as the file system has changed to the point where it can't be done without wiping and reformatting the hard drive. And if you're going to do that what's the point of getting a new computer?



Anyway I found a workaround I'd recommend to anyone needing to run vintage software on a new PC, namely, an Oracle emulator called VM VirtualBox, downloadable here:

http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/server-storage/virtualbox/downloads/index.html?ssSourceSiteId=otnjp

I tried the "Virtual XP" that comes with Windows 7 but for several reasons I could never get it working in any useful way. This one on the other hand is quick and easy and works perfectly, so if you've got an XP disk and license lying around, this is a way to get some use out of it. Best part: it's FREE!

36 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Last call for XP . . . (Original Post) ucrdem Mar 2014 OP
I use about 10 of the XP updates after Service Pack 3. hobbit709 Mar 2014 #1
There's also activation ucrdem Mar 2014 #2
Remove WGA works fine. hobbit709 Mar 2014 #3
LOL. Try it. ucrdem Mar 2014 #4
I got one here that it's been working on for 5 years now. hobbit709 Mar 2014 #5
Try running Office on it ucrdem Mar 2014 #6
I don't use Orifice, been using WordPerfect since 4.2 for DOS. hobbit709 Mar 2014 #7
LOL, that's why I still use XP. ucrdem Mar 2014 #8
WP X5 reads doc and docx just fine and saves them in the same format. hobbit709 Mar 2014 #9
You PAID for it? ucrdem Mar 2014 #10
Some time ago I found a legit OEM version of X5 standard for $12.99 hobbit709 Mar 2014 #11
Good deal. ucrdem Mar 2014 #12
Open Office or Liber Office work fine. RC Mar 2014 #14
I think this thread needs to be Pinned to the top. RC Mar 2014 #13
Download it here. Standalone .exe hobbit709 Mar 2014 #15
Thanks RC Mar 2014 #16
Only as a example of what not to post! whistler162 Mar 2014 #23
How long do you think MS is going to keep their XP update servers up and running? RC Mar 2014 #26
A tale of two notepads: ucrdem Mar 2014 #17
How about a graphic warning? Word Perfect? Sheesh. Thor_MN Mar 2014 #18
Gawd I loved that program. ucrdem Mar 2014 #19
Hated it with a passion. Thor_MN Mar 2014 #20
Yeah there's that. ucrdem Mar 2014 #21
I'm in the unfortunae position of being the only developer left Thor_MN Mar 2014 #22
We had to pry WP 5.1 out of one legal secretary's fingers whistler162 Mar 2014 #24
XP on "newer" machines IS impossible. Sobriquet Mar 2014 #25
It's not easy but it can be done. hobbit709 Mar 2014 #27
If you change all your BIOS settings you break Windows 8. ucrdem Mar 2014 #28
BS hobbit709 Mar 2014 #29
That's nice. ucrdem Mar 2014 #30
Neither does yours. hobbit709 Mar 2014 #31
GIGO. ucrdem Mar 2014 #32
p.s. more on GPT partition scheme here: ucrdem Mar 2014 #33
Last time around for XP and should we disconnect Mondavi Apr 2014 #34
I'm assuming you mean emails steve2470 Apr 2014 #35
No, I meant various and many "warnings" they're sending thru... Mondavi Apr 2014 #36

hobbit709

(41,694 posts)
1. I use about 10 of the XP updates after Service Pack 3.
Sun Mar 2, 2014, 07:58 AM
Mar 2014

Have not noticed either a decline in performance or a security problem.
If you turn OFF Remote Access and don't use Internet Exploder or OutHouse, you have eliminated 90% of the problems.
Every infected computer I work on has ALL the updates and it obviously didn't help.
The main problem with viruses/malware is the ID ten T error.

As far as software goes, I have yet to encounter a problem with anything I use. I have an audio player TrayPlay that is a 37Kb .exe that sits in your system tray and plays audio files all day long. It's worked on Win98, 2000, XP and XP X64, Vista 32 & 64, 7 32 & 64, and even on Windows 8.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
2. There's also activation
Sun Mar 2, 2014, 12:35 PM
Mar 2014

which is probably the bigger problem. It looks like MS is really pulling the plug and who can blame them? They loaded XP with so may gun turrets and booby traps they probably spend half their time supporting it. And if they stop activating it means no new installations without a sh#tload of hacking. If you know a workaround let me know but I could never find one that worked more than 30 days.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
4. LOL. Try it.
Sun Mar 2, 2014, 12:45 PM
Mar 2014

If it works for you good on ya, but in 30 days you might be in for a little surprise.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
6. Try running Office on it
Sun Mar 2, 2014, 01:00 PM
Mar 2014

or going online to find printer drivers or MSE updates or anything else. If it works at all that's great, but I dodged activation for 8 months before I finally bought a retail license on ebay, and I wouldn't recommend it.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
8. LOL, that's why I still use XP.
Sun Mar 2, 2014, 01:18 PM
Mar 2014

DOS WP versions won't run on 7 or 8 without an emulator that runs, you guessed it, XP. They do run on Vista but poorly. And if you need to read docs you need Orifice. I don't like it either but who'll stop the rain?

hobbit709

(41,694 posts)
9. WP X5 reads doc and docx just fine and saves them in the same format.
Sun Mar 2, 2014, 01:29 PM
Mar 2014

And it does a much better job of converting from wpd to doc or docx than Oficie does. And WP will open older versions of it's documents.. Plus it costs a whole lot less.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
10. You PAID for it?
Sun Mar 2, 2014, 01:37 PM
Mar 2014

LOL, just kidding. That's next on my list except I'm thinking of getting X6 pro unless there's a reason X5 is better.

hobbit709

(41,694 posts)
11. Some time ago I found a legit OEM version of X5 standard for $12.99
Sun Mar 2, 2014, 01:39 PM
Mar 2014

Came with a product key that activated and validated no problem.

 

RC

(25,592 posts)
14. Open Office or Liber Office work fine.
Sun Mar 2, 2014, 04:57 PM
Mar 2014

Free for the download. There are websites devoted to all kinds of drivers for anything out there. some are free, some for a nominal charge.

 

RC

(25,592 posts)
13. I think this thread needs to be Pinned to the top.
Sun Mar 2, 2014, 04:52 PM
Mar 2014

My biggest concern it getting the 3 service packs for a reload. I have a license I am not using, so why can't I use it after the Drop Dead Date Microsoft is setting for their loyal losers users.

hobbit709

(41,694 posts)
15. Download it here. Standalone .exe
Sun Mar 2, 2014, 07:19 PM
Mar 2014
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=24

I have all the updates that I use for XP as separate .exe files on a flash drive. That way I can setup a computer without having to go online.
 

RC

(25,592 posts)
26. How long do you think MS is going to keep their XP update servers up and running?
Sun Mar 9, 2014, 11:28 PM
Mar 2014

MS wants very much to kill XP and it won't die because too many people are still using it.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
17. A tale of two notepads:
Mon Mar 3, 2014, 08:00 AM
Mar 2014


The point is that this thing doesn't just run XP on the same drive as Windows 8, it runs it as a scalable window in Windows 8, in this case full screen, which is handy. Here's another sight I thought I'd never see:





p.s. yes, that's WP 5.1, which last saw the light of a retail store in 1989 I believe, with its date macro still dutifully dating docs . . . .
 

Thor_MN

(11,843 posts)
18. How about a graphic warning? Word Perfect? Sheesh.
Fri Mar 7, 2014, 05:14 PM
Mar 2014

I'm not going to be able to sleep tonight...

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
19. Gawd I loved that program.
Fri Mar 7, 2014, 05:44 PM
Mar 2014

There's still nothing like it. It took me eight months of fiddling to get it working on my new PC, which is awesome, and at the moment my virtual machine is hosed, but it fills me with unspeakable joy to know that it's at least possible to run WP51 on this thing and bounce around in my old files again. . .

 

Thor_MN

(11,843 posts)
20. Hated it with a passion.
Fri Mar 7, 2014, 07:28 PM
Mar 2014

I didn't have the time to learn arcane triple key combinations to do absolutely anything. One of the worst interfaces I had ever seen. I can see why keyboard centric people liked it, but I'd rather know what I am about to do rather than guess at some nonsensical key combination.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
21. Yeah there's that.
Sun Mar 9, 2014, 06:03 PM
Mar 2014

It used to crash a lot too, or maybe it was the crummy computers I got stuck with. This is probably more than you want to know, but the trick is to remap all those home-home commands into quicker 2-key commands, and then do all your navigation with a pinky on left control and a finger on your personal word star. Wordstar also had hard-to-remember 3-key commands but the beauty of WP is that it's customizable so you're not stuck with commands you don't use. Also you can see the codes and untangle when necessary. Once you get the hang of it you never have to take your hands off the keyboard which can be handy.

Anyway the latest on XP is that July 2015 is the new April 8, 2014, and the only thing going away is any pretense of "free" support. So expect to pay $100+ if you ever have the bad luck to phone MS to activate your XP. Apparently they're still activating online, still putting out MSE updates for XP, and keeping the older updates online for another year at least:

http://www.infoworld.com/t/microsoft-windows/microsoft-keeps-chipping-away-windows-xps-end-of-life-deadline-235035

 

Thor_MN

(11,843 posts)
22. I'm in the unfortunae position of being the only developer left
Sun Mar 9, 2014, 08:08 PM
Mar 2014

for a legacy system coded partially in VB6. TPTB have decided I need to give up my XP system and are on a lock everything down kick because some idiots clicked on a phishing email. Windows 7 is costing me hair with its "you really don't want to do that" attitude. I'm an admin on the box. I shouldn't have to resupply admin rights. I've turned UAC off and given myself right to the entire hard drive. It's like pulling teeth to get anything done on it.

I miss the days when things were coded as if the user knew what they were doing instead of defending itself from the user.

 

whistler162

(11,155 posts)
24. We had to pry WP 5.1 out of one legal secretary's fingers
Sun Mar 9, 2014, 09:58 PM
Mar 2014

when we upgraded her from 98 to XP. Switched her to Corel's WP, forget the version.

Sobriquet

(15 posts)
25. XP on "newer" machines IS impossible.
Sun Mar 9, 2014, 10:29 PM
Mar 2014
Unfortunately, even if you have a retail XP license, it's basically impossible to install XP on a new Windows 8 machine without nuking Windows 8, as the file system has changed to the point where it can't be done without wiping and reformatting the hard drive.


Driver manufacturers have all but stopped supporting legacy OSes. The two major OS producers -- Apple and M$ -- pretty much have locked-down agreements with the OEMs. A lot of them won't even support Linux, and why would they, when the hobbyist hackers installing a FREE system on their computer aren't paying Intel, Broadcom, Foxconn, etc. anything?



This is why Hackintoshes are hit-or-miss: Apple makes most of its own hardware, and what it doesn't, requires the OEMs to "modify" in such a way as the devices would be "exclusive" to a Mac (and not just any old Intel system). Microsoft is not an OEM. That's why Windows machines cost so much less: you're not buying the whole package (system and machine all-in-one), you're buying the computer with a "license" to use Windows -- and ONLY whatever version of Windows is "compatible" with that particular setup.



By the way, it's not the file system that makes getting rid of Windows 8 such a PITA. It's the BIOS, or the firmware -- the specialized set of hardcoded instructions that tell the motherboard to boot up into the system. Microsoft now has its own "proprietary" firmware, called EFI (Extensible Firmware Interface), which apparently you can only disable (and go into "legacy" BIOS mode) through Windows 8 itself. It's not as easy as just "wiping the hard drive" or even swiping the old hard drive for a new one. You can wipe the hard drive 100 times or instal 100 new ones over and over again. Without configuring the EFI, your install disc won't even boot. Even still, there's a chance that the driver manufacturer may have stopped supporting 7 and no longer provides a driver download on its website. Which could be because they too "modified" the chip to only support EFI and 8 and not anything below it.



That said, I too have had mixed results using "XP Mode" in Windows 7. The only thing I like about it is that programs you install into XP Mode show up in the Start menu as regular programs, and you can "pin" them to the Taskbar, just as though you'd installed them normally in your 7 system. But as it turns out, VirtualBox offers a similar option, called Seamless Mode (VMWare calls it "Unity Mode&quot . VirtualBox is not only "free as in beer" (no cost) but "free as in speech" -- hence open-source, and has a version for Linux. Which means that if you do decide to take the plunge and install Linux on your PC, you can still run pretty much any version of Windows within the operating system itself! (P.S.: If you've got enough RAM on your physical machine, this guy has shown that it is possible to have a Hackintosh VM.)

This one on the other hand is quick and easy and works perfectly, so if you've got an XP disk and license lying around, this is a way to get some use out of it. Best part: it's FREE!


Hah, well... I have plenty of XP discs lying around...

...but they're from a dealer in Sweden I'm probably not allowed to mention here.

At this point, I'm calling XP "abandonware" so I don't really care what the "official" agreement says.

Far as I'm concerned, if the only other place you can get a copy is on eBay, then M$ and the DMCA cartels can kiss my

hobbit709

(41,694 posts)
27. It's not easy but it can be done.
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 04:55 AM
Mar 2014

I've done it on several machines. You have to find ALL the settings in the BIOS that need to be changed. It's not just one.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
28. If you change all your BIOS settings you break Windows 8.
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 08:36 AM
Mar 2014

I wouldn't recommend it. So you're stuck using F6 to load disk drivers when XP installs. But it only loads drivers off an internal floppy and a USB floppy drive won't work because it hasn't loaded the drivers. And so on.



p.s. I was thinking of GPT vs MBR file system.

 

Mondavi

(176 posts)
34. Last time around for XP and should we disconnect
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 03:34 AM
Apr 2014

all Microsoft communications as I'm still getting info from them?
How do you disconnect them?

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
35. I'm assuming you mean emails
Thu Apr 17, 2014, 03:48 AM
Apr 2014

On the Microsoft site you can change your profile, if you have one.

The other option is to unsubscribe. Usually corporate emails (especially legitimate ones) have
a link to unsubscribe either at the very top of the email or at the very bottom of it. To be 100%
safe, move your cursor over the link and see exactly what the address is. Come back to this sub-forum
to report it. You don't want to accidentally click a phishing link.

 

Mondavi

(176 posts)
36. No, I meant various and many "warnings" they're sending thru...
Sat Apr 19, 2014, 06:49 AM
Apr 2014

as a matter of fact, I found yesterday in clicking on them that they pretty much shut down my computer and made it impossible to go anywhere.
I finally disconnected Microsoft Security Essentials tonight.

If you get any of these messages ignore them.

Most of them are b.s. like the one I'm getting about 20-30 of at a time re my computer
as I start it up, re my computer being "at risk" as they relate this is "because Microsoft is no longer supporting the apps" and if I click below I can restart, thouh restart what I don't know.

There are any number of other dumb Microsoft "warnings" I'd like to shut off as well.

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