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ladym55

(2,577 posts)
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 11:40 AM Apr 2016

HILLARY CLINTON GROUP: Reality Check

As I watch the Sanders campaign go completely off the rails, I get sad and frustrated. Just this morning as I caught up on two days of Reader Supported News, I learned that Hillary's free trade policies support money laundering in Panama, Hillary has supported EVERY WAR EVER, and Elizabeth Warren thinks Paul Krugman is an idiot. (Well, I'm rephrasing and exaggerating a bit, but the basic idea is there.) So once the smoke clears and the Bern finally figures out the math of the nomination, we are left with an entire group of progressive Democrats who have been fed non-stop rat poison by visible and vocal progressives: Thom Hartmann, John Nichols, Robert Reich, Randi Rhodes, Reader Supported News, Truthout .... you name it, if it's "progressive," it's a BERNIE outlet and a Hillary hater. There are some noted exceptions, and those are people I continue to respect, like John Fugelsang. He supports Bernie, but says over and over that we all need to support our nominee--no questions asked. But as Karl Rove smugly pointed out, the Rethugs just need to let the left destroy the Democratic Party, and it's doing a damned good job of it.

Bernie is an outlier--filled with ideas and posturings. I suspect he ran because he wanted to get some really progressive economic ideas in the discussion, but then things took off, and Bernie just plain wasn't ready and is not cut out for the spotlight. He is very good at putting forth legislation that goes absolutely nowhere so he can take a stand, but THAT is not governing. Governing is actually making things happen, which is why Hillary is so good and such a threat. She knows how to get things done. They may not be perfect, but they are a steps of improvement. Is the ACA perfect? No. But it is light years ahead of where we were. Wouldn't single payer be awesome? Yes. But it will take years and steps to get there. Last thing we need is a bunch of Bernie bros and babes sitting home and sulking in November (cuz their precious pumpkin progressive great minds told them that Hillary is JUST LIKE CRUZ AND TRUMP) so we end up with either the disaster of Trump or the disaster of Ted Cruz or even the disaster of Paul Ryan.

I am just sick and tired of the childish behavior I'm seeing from people I used to respect. Ideological purity works great for books, but not for governing. We all need to be thinking about how we get moving after the nomination and get Hillary elected AND all Dems in office, so she has a legislature that functions.

32 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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HILLARY CLINTON GROUP: Reality Check (Original Post) ladym55 Apr 2016 OP
+1 Buzz Clik Apr 2016 #1
I'm also shocked that they believe these tactics win people over to their sides. IamMab Apr 2016 #2
k & r LAS14 Apr 2016 #3
K & R revmclaren Apr 2016 #4
We are out-voting them!! Her Sister Apr 2016 #5
Keep telling me this! ladym55 Apr 2016 #9
It's so cool really! Her Sister Apr 2016 #12
And now I see BSers gleefully denigrating Hillary about Monica Lewinsky. Laurian Apr 2016 #6
You know when BSer's are plumbing the depths of the VRWC freeper shit workinclasszero Apr 2016 #8
The end is near and they KNOW IT! Maru Kitteh Apr 2016 #21
Good post! pandr32 Apr 2016 #7
K&R! DemonGoddess Apr 2016 #10
An angry mob mentality Legends303 Apr 2016 #11
You are so right, Legends303! brer cat Apr 2016 #24
Republicans have every intention of helping a Leftwing version of the Tea Party happen... KittyWampus Apr 2016 #13
Yes, they would love to see the TP curse in our party, it has cursed them. Thinkingabout Apr 2016 #28
Dismissive prima donnas. Basic LA Apr 2016 #14
I am constantly amused and dismayed... yallerdawg Apr 2016 #15
It is ironic that Bernie Haveadream Apr 2016 #16
K&R!!! COLGATE4 Apr 2016 #17
K&R. Well stated! HillareeeHillaraah Apr 2016 #18
K & R most enthusiastically. Surya Gayatri Apr 2016 #19
K&R Thanks for posting SharonClark Apr 2016 #20
The bigest "low" is seeing supposed Dems here at DU cheering on the protestors Lucinda Apr 2016 #22
It must be terribly difficult for them to understand that spooky3 Apr 2016 #26
Favorite part savalez Apr 2016 #23
The irony is that many of them are NOT ideologically pure. spooky3 Apr 2016 #25
Did you know that Hillary is actually Helen of Troy? She started that war too. And don't Squinch Apr 2016 #27
The denial is running high this Sunday AM liberal N proud Apr 2016 #29
The closer we get to the NY Primary, the more frantic redstateblues Apr 2016 #30
K&R Gothmog Apr 2016 #31
I think some of them are venting their anger over the system. wisteria Apr 2016 #32
 

IamMab

(1,359 posts)
2. I'm also shocked that they believe these tactics win people over to their sides.
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 11:43 AM
Apr 2016

And we all know where this comes from: Tea Party Envy.

They think the Tea Party won somehow, and are clearly adopting the same tactics thinking they'll "win" too.

 

Her Sister

(6,444 posts)
5. We are out-voting them!!
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 11:45 AM
Apr 2016

We just are!! The DEMS are out-voting them. We shall keep control of our HOUSE!

We just need to keep on ON KEEPING ON!

TOGETHER WITH HER! WE GOT THIS!

ladym55

(2,577 posts)
9. Keep telling me this!
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 11:50 AM
Apr 2016

I am getting discouraged. I think it was hearing that Nina Turner (who WAS vice chair of the Democratic Party in Ohio) saying that she was going to sit out the general if Hillary was nominated put me over the edge. Ohio needs all hands on deck. We have an important Senate race to hopefully unseat the useless Rob Portman. Our House seats are so gerrymandered I don't know if we can make a dent there, but we can't afford to sit and sulk in Ohio.

 

Her Sister

(6,444 posts)
12. It's so cool really!
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 11:59 AM
Apr 2016

with so much against us and we are quietly out-voting them! We are not acting Fancy! Not getting much attention towards us!! Not needing attention towards us! Ignoring all the false and negative media coming from all sides! Not being cowered! Not gathering in huge rallies. JUst quietly going about on our business,,,,.... and when we get to that voting booth WE JUST PLAIN & SIMPLE out-vote them Not big to do! We go on our way back to work and our families. We don't care that we are not young and excited supposedly. The media and others can go crazy all around us. We are not impressed that much. We just know! and we VOTE! FOR HER! WITH HER!!

Laurian

(2,593 posts)
6. And now I see BSers gleefully denigrating Hillary about Monica Lewinsky.
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 11:47 AM
Apr 2016

FFS

To do this to a fellow Democrat is beyond the pale.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
8. You know when BSer's are plumbing the depths of the VRWC freeper shit
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 11:49 AM
Apr 2016

Their end is near and they KNOW IT!

Thank God!

pandr32

(11,574 posts)
7. Good post!
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 11:48 AM
Apr 2016

Bernie doesn't live up to his own myth in any way, shape, or form; and neither does Hillary remotely resemble the villainess version of her they have mythologized. It is la-la-land and has no place in the Democratic nomination process.

DemonGoddess

(4,640 posts)
10. K&R!
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 11:56 AM
Apr 2016

We all just need to remember that she leads in popular votes and pledged delegates, and to work hard at KEEPING it that way.

That, and WE all know she's not the evilwitchfromhell the Sanders supporters make her out to be, using RWNJ talking points.

 

Legends303

(481 posts)
11. An angry mob mentality
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 11:57 AM
Apr 2016

Seriously of his online supporters the most nastiest assumptions, that somehow your not a real democrat or Progressive if you don't Support Sander's fantasy ideas.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
13. Republicans have every intention of helping a Leftwing version of the Tea Party happen...
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 12:00 PM
Apr 2016

It's in their best interest to help it happen.

My hope is most real progressives backing Sanders realize this and will not allow it to happen.

The PROBLEM is that Republicans are well funded and could easily build a Bernie-PUMA astroturf movement after Clinton is nominated to sow further discord.

Even if it's a tiny fraction of Lefwing Teabaggers out there- the Republicans and the Media WILL GIVE THEM A SPOTLIGHT.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
28. Yes, they would love to see the TP curse in our party, it has cursed them.
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 08:51 AM
Apr 2016

Now they have a TP curse running second in their primary, funny I dont hear the curze saying much about his TP position.

 

Basic LA

(2,047 posts)
14. Dismissive prima donnas.
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 12:04 PM
Apr 2016

Although I did hear a good interview with Tom Hayden (with Ian Masters on Pacifica) yesterday. Hayden has an article in The Nation about why he switched from Sanders to Clinton. Briefly, Hayden asks how in the world can he tell African Americans, Latinos & Unions that they're all too ignorant to pick the right candidate? Because that's what the Sanders people are saying, in effect.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
15. I am constantly amused and dismayed...
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 12:13 PM
Apr 2016

at the hypocrisy and double standards of Bernie supporters.

In Vermont, Bernie has a voter base that lets him get away with ideological intransigence - except on 2nd Amendment issues and "healthcare for all" - but the diversity of America and the Democratic Party is not at all like that Vermont voter base.

Given the promise of a different, higher-level, positive campaign, the ongoing ridiculous demonization of Hillary by Bernie's surrogates and supporters - his own 'artful smears' in speeches, town halls and debates - this is just the same old same old. A professional, establishment campaign doing what it does.

Sure, he attracts young voters with no party allegiance with dreams of "free stuff." These voters are new, yes - they just became eligible to vote over the last four years! And a bunch were in the Obama coalition in 2008 and 2012, who are coming out of school in massive debt with no bright economic future under Republican obstructionism in Congress and in states across the nation. Of course they are thrashing about, hoping for help!

Bernie supporters may ultimately join us in November, but given the candidates in the GOP, I'm pretty sure we Democrats can take care of the general election.



Haveadream

(1,630 posts)
16. It is ironic that Bernie
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 12:21 PM
Apr 2016

for all his protests that uncontrolled 'regime change' abroad can have unintended and catastrophic consequences, doesn't see how he is doing everything he can to foment exactly that here. The scorched earth tactics are truly frightening to people of little means. It isn't necessary to destroy everything to effect positive change. I think that may be an essential element that divides the thinking of his supporters and Hillary's. Many people who are really struggling have zero desire for an out of control revolution. They don't have the resources to withstand the battle and wait for the entire rebuilding of the country. His supporters cannot hear that or have the luxury not to care.

Thank all that is holy HRC will soon clinch the nomination and this madness can be over! She is winning!

Lucinda

(31,170 posts)
22. The bigest "low" is seeing supposed Dems here at DU cheering on the protestors
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 05:01 PM
Apr 2016

showing their fannies over Dems fundraising for the GE. The mea culpa posts after people regain sanity are going to be painful to read.

spooky3

(34,430 posts)
26. It must be terribly difficult for them to understand that
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 08:44 AM
Apr 2016

You cannot change a corrupt system controlled by big money by sticking out your lower lip and folding your arms. You have to do what's necessary to gain power in the system and then use that power for change.

savalez

(3,517 posts)
23. Favorite part
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 05:40 PM
Apr 2016
He is very good at putting forth legislation that goes absolutely nowhere so he can take a stand, but THAT is not governing. Governing is actually making things happen...

spooky3

(34,430 posts)
25. The irony is that many of them are NOT ideologically pure.
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 08:41 AM
Apr 2016

Ideological purity on the left includes compassion and fairness for others. But some are sadly lacking in those qualities.

Squinch

(50,941 posts)
27. Did you know that Hillary is actually Helen of Troy? She started that war too. And don't
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 08:50 AM
Apr 2016

get me started about her role in the Franco-Prussian war.

liberal N proud

(60,334 posts)
29. The denial is running high this Sunday AM
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 09:26 AM
Apr 2016

If one went by the contents of every forum they have cleverly invaded you would think BS was winning.

redstateblues

(10,565 posts)
30. The closer we get to the NY Primary, the more frantic
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 09:52 AM
Apr 2016

Sanders' supporters are getting. The lies and distortions that "progressives" are flooding this site with is astonishing. Reality will be setting in soon. It can't come soon enough. It will be hard not to gloat

 

wisteria

(19,581 posts)
32. I think some of them are venting their anger over the system.
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 11:20 AM
Apr 2016

And, Clinton is the unfair target. Sec. Clinton has become the scapegoat for everything that is wrong with our current system. And, once they calm down, rationalize things, recognize they have many ideas in common with Clinton, many will come around. But, this is going to take some time, and that is why it would help if Sanders began preparing to leave the primary as a candidate. He is beginning to look spiteful hanging on like this. Two more days to the primary, and my fingers are tightly crossed for a large win for Clinton.

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