I feel sorry for Sanders' "true believers"

[CajunBlazer]

By "true believers" I am referring to the real zealots in the Bernie Sanders' fan club. They are the ones who spend hours trying to manipulate internet polls, harass people on line, try to shut down the expression of opinions contrary to their sainted candidate, and attempt terrorize super delegates. They are the ones who lurk in the shadows of the Hillary group ready to alert on anything not complementary of Sanders or his supporters (or at least they used to until Skinner put his foot down, though one of them may be alerting on this OP right now).

I truly feel sorry for them. Sure they tick me off just as they do every one else in the Hillary group, but how can one not feel sorry of people who are so unhappy and distrustful of our political system.

Many of Sanders' most obnoxious fans are true believers of the far left and they exhibit many of the inherent symptoms:

- They feel ideologically pure

- They won't compromise

- They are not into reality if it disagrees with their objectives or their view of the world

- They are all or nothing people so they are disdainful of incremental progress.

- They are never happy with the political system because they can't change it without compromise and they disavow incremental progress so their efforts almost always fail.

- They are into conspiracy theories because they continue to fail so there must be someone or some thing that is conspiring to block their efforts.

They are driven by a revolutionary zeal for dramatic change which they can never bring about so they are never content, so they are never truly happy. While their behavior drives me up a wall, I feel sorry for anyone who chooses to live that way.

[MichiganVote]

1. I think most Bernie supporters are sincere in their beliefs and efforts. Too broad a brush.

[CajunBlazer]

9. First of all I am not referring to the majority of Sanders' supporters

Last edited Mon May 9, 2016, 09:59 AM - Edit history (1)

I was writing about his most zealot radical left wing supporters, but even for those I don't doubt their sincerity for a moment. "Sincere" is not strong enough to describe them; they are totally devoted to their cause and that, at least in part, makes them who they are. But their dedication doesn't totally explain them; I think there is a personality component as well.

[JSup]

30. Yeah, any time...

...I post about the radical ones I try to always remember to place a disclaimer because I really so like to be in the habit of not coloring them all in with the same crayon. I hate it when people do it to groups I belong to so I don't want to do it to groups others belong to.

If anybody ever sees me broadbrush please call me out on it; just because I'm a Hillary supporter doesn't mean I don't have principles that are important to me. <---last part was humor

[CajunBlazer]

54. Well said!

[RBInMaine]

44. This poster is talking about the MINORITY of Bernie Fundamentalists, so it is NOT too broad a brush.

[Cha]

55. Not from what I've seen... and the OP isn't "painting a broad brush".. he qualified his

statement if you read it.

[puffy socks]

78. I agree. Where are these nice Bernie supporters?

Why aren't they calling out the mean, fanatical supporters if there are so many civil supporters? Do they believe these people do not hurt their cause?



One of the problems of ever talking seriously about something or pointing out the negatives of something or someone is that so many people can't deal with the awkwardness that we constantly have to throw in "but not you" or some positive thing the person did, , especially in a group. I dislike having to walk on forum egg shells when speaking about their behavior, I still do it but I find that impedes progress because we spend so much time soothing people's feelings instead of keeping the focus on discussing viable solutions to the issues.



If it's not you, it's not about you.

The ones that are Bernie fanatics I have no problem engaging civilly or adding a drop of snark now and then. Let them whine, it changes nothing. It has actually helped in pointing out to my daughter how the behavior on the left can develop into something nasty just as easily as the right.

[Lucinda]

2. I don't. They are poorly informed about my candidate, civics, and the party they

Last edited Mon May 9, 2016, 01:53 PM - Edit history (1)

supposedly belong to. They have the internet capability to post here, so they have the ability to educate themselves and choose not to. Willful ignorance just makes me angry.

I'm glad that you feel more charitable towards them though!

[still_one]

53. kick and rec!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MirrorAshes]

81. Exactly right

I'm 35 and I'm shocked at how many of my peers don't seem to understand the realities of politics. I thought they knew better, but they've drunk the kool-aid and are going down with the ship kicking and screaming.

[On the Road]

3. Mass Movements are Just as Common in Politics as in Religion

and have just as distorting an effect on thought and emotion.

[img][/img]
http://goo.gl/4HJVYr

[jmowreader]

5. You have GOT to be kidding.

The door is over there. Go through it.

[William769]

12. He just did.

[griffi94]

11. You do realize that You're in the Hillary Clinton Group?

Right?

[RBInMaine]

45. Please, go troll elsewhere.

[Cha]

52. Yes, BS fans are masters of Projection & Denial.

[griffi94]

6. I know a lot of Bernie supporters in real life

They're nothing like the ones here who mostly
seem to be here to smear Hillary than to support Bernie.
Especially in the last couple of months.

The ones I know IRL prferred Bernie but they don't hate Hillary
none of them will not vote.

As for the ones here on DU who are the loudest and the nastiest.
I'll be happy when Hillary has the nomination and Bernie goes away.

When Hillary is anounced as our candidate I expect you won't see a lot of them anymore.
I do expect more than a few loud angry OPs declaring that you won't have them
to kick around anymore.

I wish the convention were sooner haha.

[CajunBlazer]

14. I agree completely

I think that websites like DU attract the zealots of the Sanders fan club. Had Sanders not run many of them would not be here since they aren't Democrats and normally vote for third party candidates.

However, they were looking for anything they could do to support Sanders' candidacy and posting on websites like DU give them the illusion of doing something tangible to support Sanders.

I don't think that they understand that their zeal prompts them to attack anyone who disagree with them (they are never wrong you know) which turns off the very people they are trying to sway. Ultimately it naturally turns into a food fight as those they attack push back, and then you get the nastiness that occurred here.

[KittyWampus]

56. If Sanders hadn't run, they'd have been for O'Malley like I was.

[COLGATE4]

58. Or more likely Jill Stein. nt

[wryter2000]

76. Bingo

And the ones who were voting age in 2000 voted for Nader and insisted there was no difference between Gore and Bush.

[COLGATE4]

80. Them too. nt

[sheshe2]

22. Yes! nt

[BlueMTexpat]

47. My experience too.

But one thing that has been happening among those I know. Some of those who very, very pro-Bernie - and voted for him in their respective primaries, although they would always have supported whoever became the Dem nominee - have changed their minds recently about Bernie in large part because of his behavior in recent weeks, as well as the behavior of his campaign and their surrogates.

They were always prepared to vote for Hillary in Nov if she became the Dem nominee, although their hearts were at first not where their minds were. Now several are so thoroughly disillusioned with Bernie that they have become passionate HRC supporters.

I really didn't expect that to happen.

And yes, I too wish the convention were sooner. :h

[griffi94]

62. few of friends who voted Bernie

in the primary have mentioned how angry he's gotten the last
several months.

[Maru Kitteh]

72. Yeah. I was never a supporter but I liked him before he started being such an ass.

[Gman]

7. The problems are caused by the purists

The keepers of the progressive holy of holies. The purist way, truth and light.

[JSup]

31. And every group...

...has its purists; we just tend to ignore them when they're on our side (unless they get really loud).

Capitalism has its Randists, religions have their fundamentalists, Republicans (poor them) have their Constituonalists, Tea Partiers and Free Citizens, Atheists have their antitheists... I don't know what Hillary supporters have because I'm probably blind to it; forest for the trees and all that.

[Gman]

37. HRC supporters have pragmatism

It's what keeps 'em sane

[Cha]

51. the emoprogs..

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Emo%20Progressive

"The keepers of the progressive holy of holies. The purist way, truth and light"

Except when it isn't.

[Gman]

68. Oh, I freakin' love it!

Exactly! It's now a part of my everyday vocabulary. Thanks!

[onecaliberal]

8. I feel sorry for weak minded people who don't have the morals to stand for anything.

People who think it's okay for men to die in war so long as it's not their sons. People who think it's okay for children to starve without food and die without healthcare treatment, so long as it's not your kids. You people make me seriously ill.

[William769]

13. And you, I.

[CajunBlazer]

19. Don't feel sorry for us

Last edited Sun May 8, 2016, 11:24 PM - Edit history (1)

We are not weak minded people - we are just not zealots. We know that revolutionary change is not possible because the majority rules in this country and the majority abhors dramatic change except in times extreme distress. So we work hard to bring about incremental change, not by assaulting the walls of the system, but from within.

We are comfortable with compromise because that is only way to get the agreement of those who would otherwise fight us. We are mostly successful in our efforts to take care of those who can't take care of themselves and almost always in fighting off those who try to cut holes in the social safety net. Sometime we are forced a step back, only to take two steps forward later.

While you see us as "weak minded" we see those like you as zealous knights who throw themselves headfirst into the thick walls of the system and then stagger around wondering why they have headaches. We view zealots as those who tilt with windmills, only to be unhorsed by the blades and then try to explain the results with conspiracy theories.

On the other hand view ourselves as workmen with strong back who are not afraid to put our shoulders to the wheels of progress, ever pushing our country forward towards a brighter future where there will truly be equal opportunity for all and misery for none, even if we have to do it one step at time.

As President Obama made it clear in his commencement address at Howard College - while certainly not perfect, the situation is better now than when he graduated form college.

Later in that speech I think he had some Sanders supporters in mind when he said:

And democracy requires compromise, even when you are 100 percent right. This is hard to explain sometimes. You can be completely right, and you still are going to have to engage folks who disagree with you. If you think that the only way forward is to be as uncompromising as possible, you will feel good about yourself, you will enjoy a certain moral purity, but you’re not going to get what you want. And if you don’t get what you want long enough, you will eventually think the whole system is rigged. And that will lead to more cynicism, and less participation, and a downward spiral of more injustice and more anger and more despair. And that's never been the source of our progress. That's how we cheat ourselves of progress.

[griffi94]

27. Excellent

Very well said and spot on.

[fleabiscuit]

35. Some have authoritarian morals, my way or the hiway.

They call themselves progressive but have no desire for thinking about consequences.

[COLGATE4]

59. Excellent! Thank you.

[RBInMaine]

46. Your post PROVES the OP. It is NUTS to say that Hillary supporters "don't stand for anything."

What a load of CRAP! Are you actually so ignorantly saying that just because someone supports Hillary they don't stand for anything, as if Bernie Sanders is some lone and holy great god and guru of principles? My goodness, enough! Hillary Clinton started her career with the Children's Defense Fund and has been fighting for Democratic principles and making positive change her whole life. We are for progressive social principles and middle class economics. Being PRACTICAL and in REALITY doesn't mean one doesn't have principles. In fact, making PROGRESS, even if it has to be incremental, IS a PRINCIPLE. The whole nation was founded on COMPROMISE. Try reading your history books. So ENOUGH of the self-righteous nonsense that only Sanders supporters have principles and "stand for something." That is TEA-LEFTIST NON-REALITY PURIST BUNK!

[SharonClark]

75. It's the self-righteousness and arrogance that makes them write nonsense like that

[BlueMTexpat]

48. Who in earth are you talking about?

You burst into the HRC Group and think it's OK to call people you don't know anything about "weak-minded people" without morals (!) which is not only entirely inappropriate, it is simply wrong.

You are the embodiment of a fundamentalist "true believer" who disrespects ANY POV other than her own. It must be nice to be so RIGHT about EVERYTHING. Instead on belonging on a Democratic website in any form, you fit the fascist mold more than you will ever know.

You are addressing those comments to several here who have worked for and actually accomplished some actual change for the better in the lives of several who are more vulnerable than we are. But you will never know us in person and that is YOUR loss.

[Cha]

50. You're lost .. you're talking about trump voters.. This is Hillary's Group.. I hear there's some

of those elsewhere on this board saying they'll vote for him since BS lost.

BS doesn't have what it takes to be President.. ya'll need to stop believing your own smears.

[KittyWampus]

57. I feel sorry for Ideologues, they are essentially irrelevant in this world.

Maybe if they got off their sanctimonious high horses and were willing to do the hard, heavy labor of making change incrementally they wouldn't be so bitter.

[Sparkly]

66. Yup.

It's just easier to stand on the sidelines and whine that it's taking so long.

[KitSileya]

60. And a lot of people on Bernie's side thing it is OK for a lot of people to die for their morals

They think it is ok for women to die because of lack of reproductive health care so long as they get to stand to the side and keep their hands clean. They think it is ok for people to die in genocidal ethnic cleansings in Libya, Syria, and Yemen so long as they get to stand to the side and keep their hands clean. They think it is ok for black men and women to be gunned down by police so long as they get to stand to the side and keep their hands clean. They think it is ok for Muslims to be branded and deported, for Mexicans to be exploited and deported, for the disabled to be denied food stamps and SSI, for children to be given lead-filled water, for the elderly to be denied pensions - as long as they get to stand to the side and keep their hands clean. For they have decided that a Trump Presidency is better than a Clinton one, and when the choice comes in November, they will stand to the side and refuse to help stop Trump. They will say, 'I survived the Bush Presidency, we'll survive a Trump Presidency too."

Well, I dare them to say that to the dead of 9/11, Afghanistan, Iraq, Katrina. You guys make me sick, Trump enablers as you are, who think your twisted morals are more important than people's lives. You know who else think their beliefs are more important than people's lives? Those who want to deny women the right to abortions, deny LGBT people the right to love, deny transgender people the right to live - the fundamentalists!

[Sparkly]

65. How dare you come in here and make such accusations!

There is nobody here who thinks it's "okay for men to die in war," or WOMEN by the way, "so long as it's not their sons," or DAUGHTERS. Nobody likes war.

"It's okay for children to starve" -- Hillary Clinton has been the strongest advocate out there for children, for decades.

"and die without healthcare" -- nobody said deny children healthcare! In fact, if you know anything about Hillary Clinton, you'll know she has fought for healthcare and especially for children. HillaryCare was her universal healthcare plan back in 1993! She helped create the CHIPs program.

"so long as it's not your kids" -- What an outrageous thing to say.

I am so sick of the superiority complexes around here. Talk about "morality" -- sheesh!!!

[DemonGoddess]

67. I feel sorry for the close minded purists

who can't see the forest for the trees. Not only that, unless we agree in lockstep with you, we're shills, rethugs, and a host of other things. Go post your bullshit elsewhere.

[hamsterjill]

77. You don't even know me, and I resent your judgment of me.

This is a new level of low here on DU.

Don't you dare start telling me about MY morals. You know nothing of them, you know nothing of me.

Your judgment, without facts, makes me seriously ill. You want to assume that anyone who disagrees with your assessment of this political election is someone heartless and unfeeling. Does that make you feel better? Well, it's not that simple. Life is NOT a Disney movie. Life is a series of successes and failures, ups and downs, good and bad. It's not always as simple as you try to depict it as being.

Seriously, I believe you need to learn that there will always be people who disagree with your point of view and they are not all the creatures you try to make them.

[gwheezie]

10. I'm hoping most of them just act that way online

I know a few still sticking with Bernie and I've persuaded them to give up Bernie or bust by giving them information on trump.

[sheshe2]

23. Yes Gwheezie.

Hugs.

[Thinkingabout]

15. Reasons you have listed here will keep the movement from going forward, just as

The no give TP did on the far right. Without realistic issues and failure to negotiate will not being agreements, ergo, another failure for this group. We still believe in we the people who are in the majority, do not but into the oligarchy ruling the rest.

[Kaleva]

16. They'll fade away like the hardcore Deaniacs did.

[Trust Buster]

17. Excellent in depth analysis CB, thanks.

[NurseJackie]

18. It's similar to the rapture groups ...

... they believe their leader's predictions, up until the day after the rapture that never happened.

[Kath1]

20. Right on.

The "rapture" never happens!

[CajunBlazer]

24. Oh, sometimes it doesn't end there...

I know who group (which shall remain nameless) that had counted up all of the begats and begots in the Bible and had declared that the end times would start at a specific time in the early 1970's, 10,000 years after God's completed his labor of creating the universe with the creation of Adam. They prepared like dooms day survivalists, putting away mounds of food, etc.

When the day that was foretold came and went, they were dumbfounded. They then recovered and decided that they had made one error - they came to he conclusion that creation didn't end with the creation of Adam, but with the creation of Eve. When I asked how long after Adam was created did Eve come along, the answer I was given was, "No one knows how long Adam lived alone in the Garden of Paradise before God created Eve." You see they weren't gong to make the same mistake again of predicting a particular date for the beginning of the end of times.

[Walk away]

21. They are really boring now that Bernie is D.O.A.

They are just taking up space.

[Cha]

25. I don't.. they try to make other people's lives a living hell who don't adhere to their doctirne..

Last edited Mon May 9, 2016, 12:15 AM - Edit history (1)

and the blame goes right square on BS and his wife.

[NurseJackie]

26. Yes. This. Exactly. Thank you!

[Iliyah]

29. I got the D in the mail on Saturday.

United. Dems are moving forward.

[Cha]

32. Dems are United.. Thank you, Iliyah~

[Cha]

34. I mangled my sentence .. got it all straightened out now!

Jackie~

[NurseJackie]

61. I hadn't noticed. :-)

[CajunBlazer]

28. I have to disagree a bit there Cha...

The zealots who piled onto Sanders bandwagon when it started rolling were zealots well before Sanders decided to run for President. However, they viewed his run as a chance of a lifetime to stage the "revolution" they had always dreamed of. They thought that the opportunity would never come their way; they thought they would be voting for hopeless third party candidates for the rest of their lives. That's why they were so dedicated and zealous about trying to make the revolution real.

[Cha]

33. Yes, I believe that to be so, too. But BS and his wife egged them on & brought new zeallots

into it. We have all seen how they've disingenuously demonize Hillary and the Dems.. and lie about the President.. and everything's "rigged", "establishment".. so impure .. except BS, of course.. he's the Purist in the land.

Cajon~

[fleabiscuit]

36. Wasn't his image on ivory soap?

[Cha]

38. I doubt it, flea.. they're only "99.44%" pure..

lol

[fleabiscuit]

39. LMAO!

Cha!

[Cha]

40. 'Cause it's true!

little flea~

[fred v]

41. Online Shock Troops

Tolerating NO dissent!

[Cha]

42. I love it that since they're such Losers. They Lost.

fred~

[RBInMaine]

43. Spot On! They are FUNDAMENTALISTS who SADLY see the world in black or white. PATHETIC!

[sufrommich]

49. It takes an incredible sense of entitlement to decide

you're OK with throwing everyone who would suffer under a Trump presidency to the wolves because your candidate didn't win. They aren't doing themselves any favors and I get the sense that people are getting tired of their temper tantrum. If you ignore their shit,you take away their audience. Just do it.

[fleabiscuit]

70. You may not think it but...

"It takes an incredible sense of entitlement to decide you're OK with throwing everyone who would suffer under a Trump presidency to the wolves because your candidate didn't win..."

IMHO is a nuclear weapon of a statement. Very powerful.

I'm going to steal it.

[NastyRiffraff]

63. Courtesy of Bernie 'N Jane:

- They feel ideologically pure

- They won't compromise

- They are not into reality if it disagrees with their objectives or their view of the world

- They are all or nothing people so they are disdainful of incremental progress.

- They are never happy with the political system because they can't change it without compromise and they disavow incremental progress so their efforts almost always fail.

- They are into conspiracy theories because they continue to fail so there must be someone or some thing that is conspiring to block their efforts.

Exactly like their Lord and Lady. They may have been inclined to be True Believers before Bernie, but he and his odious wife have fed them and led them eagerly over the cliff, like lemmings.

[Surya Gayatri]

64. Hell of a way to go through life...

They are driven by a revolutionary zeal for dramatic change which they can never bring about so they are never content, so they are never truly happy.

[ismnotwasm]

69. I don't feel sorry for "them"

As they are apparently filling some essential need, or needs--perhaps the need to rage, impotently, but rage nonetheless. The need to feel ideologically righteous, right or ever-so-wrong. The need to matter as a group of disparate people coming together--never mind that there is such an essential lack of diversity, that diversity when it does appear is clung to to the point of the sublimely ridiculous.
The need to face the fears of the present and future with a Great Enemy--seemingly to feel the goals are almost Tolkien like, but in reality more like a poorly designed quest game on PS2.

No, I waste no sorrow, pity or concern, aside from the ones with very apparent challenges, who have been manipulated for their gullibility and social need.

"They" are quite content in the Animal Farm atmosphere being developed. "They" are incapable of seeing the irony.

[IamMab]

71. I feel sorry for their family and friends, coworkers and random strangers, anyone they'd speak to.

Because it's really the people who have to put up with such nonsense behavior that have it truly "rough." Feel sympathy for the ones on the receiving end of yet another Screed About The Purity Of Bernie, not the ones producing it.

A blizzard of whiny over-entitled snowflakes complaining that the Unicorn Delivery Truck hasn't arrived yet don't concern me. It's not my fault they chose to stop their education and sign on to a mentality that outlaws critical thinking.

[Stuckinthebush]

73. Green tea party

Two sides of the same coin. Extremism is extremism no matter the ideology. Most Americans reject it.

It is good that Bernie continues on in some way. It inoculates Clinton from being called an extreme lefty. She can simply point to grandpa Sanders and say, "seriously?"

He and they are looking more unhinged every day

[CajunBlazer]

74. The Green Tea Party - I love that term - perfect!

Can I use it?

More proof that the "Horseshoe Principle", which states that the radical left and the radical right are more alike than different, is absolutely dead on.

[fleabiscuit]

79. IMHO, I still say it's more of a heart shape. That provides two common intersections.

[Stuckinthebush]

82. Sure

Honestly, I thought you coined that. Maybe it was Cha.

[CajunBlazer]

83. Thanks, but I can't credit for that one

Maybe Cha can take credit; I would like to.