Hillary Clinton
Related: About this forumIf the system is rigged, how did Obama win in 2008?
Obama, a new Senator running a grass roots campaign without the backing of the "establishment," got more votes and got the Super Delegates to support him once he started getting more votes from the people.
How is it that Obama could do it and Bernie could not? Is it the fault of the establishment and the system, or the candidate?
tonyt53
(5,737 posts)sandyshoes17
(657 posts)I voted for Obama 2x, but he was still the establishment pick. He is corporate, not as bad as Hillary. They pick our candidates not us.
pengu
(462 posts)Obama had quite a bit more establishment support than Bernie. Meanwhile, Clinton's had 8 years to get her people in place while she stewed over the 2008 loss. cough DWS cough
realmirage
(2,117 posts)issues here, as we would surely have been in the BS group.
Cha
(297,229 posts)regurgitating "establishment".
Best to keep this last sanctuary an actual sanctuary
Cha
(297,229 posts)Not one.. what you're talking about. But, doesn't stop you from getting on a Democratic Political Message Board and acting like you know something this.
Clue: Ya don't
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)SFS.
Her Sister
(6,444 posts)G.O.T.T.A. B.E. K.I.D.D.I.N.G. M.E. !.!.
BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)Cha
(297,229 posts)Parenthood "establishment" because they didn't endorse him. He said the Congress people who endorsed Hillary were "establishment" .. that would include John Lewis.
It's just a word his fans regurgitate and I won't buy into.. although burnie's one of the biggest establishments out there.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)kicking GOP ass while Sanders has been mostly irrelevant and NOT a democrat
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)that no one on cable news or progressive radio has been blasting this point yet. How can one be an "outsider" when s/he has been in D.C. for multiple decades?
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)on top of a minority community- but he's not establishment.
Landed some F-35's in Vermont- but he's not establishment.
Had NRA help him get elected because they were pissed at the other guy- but he's not establishment.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)Hillary had all the old party loyals, and the SDs, supporting her. Obama had almost no record, courted young voters with his "change" message, and started flipping the SDs as early as Feb 2008 when he started winning. He didn't have the backing of the establishment. Hillary did. Sanders' proposals are not against what the DNC wants. And remember, Sanders, up until the NY primary, was sticking to a positive message, mostly friendly to the DNC and Hillary, and had the people given him more votes than Hillary, the SDs would already have mostly flipped to him as they did to Obama in 08. The "system" goes along with the voters. Obama did it, Sanders did not. Why? That's the question.
TwilightZone
(25,471 posts)To say he isn't part of the establishment is ludicrous.
Cha
(297,229 posts)under the Obama Admin for the last almost 8 years. But, here you are reducing his Excellent Accomplishments to "establishment".. some silly buzz word you picked up some place from someone who had no idea what the hell he was talking about.
Btw, BS LOST.. and Hillary's going to be the next POTUS.
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)It's, like, totally clear to see, but only if you're smart enough to decode it properly.
Hekate
(90,686 posts)fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)Her Sister
(6,444 posts)gotta make my call!
Cha
(297,229 posts)Her Sister
(6,444 posts)I wannna wanna wanna at em taxes! I do! silly me! but I do!
Cha
(297,229 posts)that he's already LOST before jane could find them or do them.. or whatever their latest excuse was.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)she's gonna help run a country.
Her Sister
(6,444 posts)or two!
realmirage
(2,117 posts)Probably why the college went under, and was most likely a conspiracy by Hewlett Packard
Her Sister
(6,444 posts)eom
realmirage
(2,117 posts)are paid for by the illuminati.
Her Sister
(6,444 posts)You went ballistic there!
fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)Cha!
Cha
(297,229 posts)LiberalFighter
(50,928 posts)There were fewer pledged and more unpledged delegates in 2008.
2008 Delegates
Pledged: 3566
Unpledged: 852 (19.3%)
Total Delegates: 4,418
2016 Delegates
Pledged: 4051
Unpledged: 714 (14.9%)
Total Delegates: 4,765
realmirage
(2,117 posts)when no African American had ever gotten close to winning the presidency. No real record or experience, no campaign financial machine as Hillary had from the start... And yet he won. Those darned minorities had to go and vote for him. Those same minorities Sanders didn't pay attention to for the last 25 years. If only the Southern voters could have been disenfranchised, as some BS supporters wish, BS could have won.
caquillo
(521 posts)Obama, which is very similar to Osama, save one letter. Seriously, I thought his last name would do him in.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)beardown
(363 posts)You brought up a valid 'check point', but I believe that Obama winning shows it's rigged for candidates with the corporate approved positions and connections.
Obama was probably new to the establishment as opposed to being outside of the establishment as he seemed to have no problem at all picking a great number of 'establishment' members to his team. I believe that he was mostly outside of the Hillary establishment than he was the establishment itself.
Good question by the way.
Cha
(297,229 posts)will be, too.
BS lost.. I think partly because he set himself up to be so pure and everyone else is "evil".. which couldn't be further from the truth.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)realmirage
(2,117 posts)Obama showed he could get more votes with the right message and approach. His staff didn't call a secret number to get minorities to vote for him. If Bernie had thought more about minorities and been more involved in their lives he could have beat Hillary. Instead, it's Hillary who has done that, and Hillary got minorities and women to vote for her. Bernie did not. That's not a rigged system, that's democracy. That's getting out what you put in. That's reality.
stopbush
(24,396 posts)guys like Obama and Bill Clinton and Dukakis and even Jimmy Carter. Pure establishment candidates all.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)If my team loses - refs rigged it.
If caucus win - caucuses ok
If caucus loss- system is beyond repair must be exploded
If primary win - the people finally woke up to how awesome my candidate is
If primary loss - process rigged, vote trump, explode America