"Why this socialist is for Hillary."

[Starry Messenger]

A friend of mine who was moved to shift his support from Bernie to Hillary this year, asked me to post this post in here for him. He was "bumped" from our group during his shift in opinion, but his post was on a thread in GDP, where it didn't get any attention, and he thought others in here might appreciate it.

Edit: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2058336

I've come to believe Hillary is more progressive than she's had to appear.

But she (and Bill for that matter) has had to play the game to get to this point, because if she doesn't then the Republican wins and we get more fascism. How much of her failings from a progressive view are the result of that? I'd daresay a lot. Nevertheless, she's certainly advocating a lot of progressive things right now, both socially and economically. Is she sincere? I'd like to think so. Yes, she does engage in a lot of noncommittal lawyerspeak which can be frustrating as hell, and i don't think very many of her supporters think she's perfect, and a lot of us would like to see her evolve further on several issues, but again that is part of the game and the only way to change that is to change the game, and not electing her over Trump might change the game...to something even worse.

The key thing is that Hillary is *persuadable*. Yes she evolves on issues when it's politically expedient (or rather, she takes public stands on issues when it's politically safe/ expedient, I'm sure the woman who marched in a Pride Parade in the 90s had no real issue with marriage equality at any point). But what is she evolving in response to? The people. Triangulation works both ways, after all. If she seems too friendly with neoliberalism (which I think she is), it's because the forces combating neoliberalism are too weak. Yes, it's more satisfying to say you are not compromising on certain progressive stands, but if you end up being stuck at 8.75 because you wouldn't budge from 15, how many workers have you really helped?

Furthermore, a lot of my support for Hillary is based on her intersectional coalition, which I'm actually impressed with seeing her starkly opposite 2008 campaign (which was naked white identity politics). Revolutions aren't made by individual leaders but by grassroots coalitions. And in America, nearly EVERY single revolutionary movement since this country's founding was spearheaded by people of color. And the latest one? By LGBT people. Progressive unions are getting behind her. Organizations that have fought for progress for decades are getting behind her. The fact that Hillary isn't as progressive as I'd like her to be is not as relevant in the face of this reality. Yes, I am all about class struggle but dismissing this coalition's needs and concerns as "identity politics" and then claiming the mantle of socialism and progressivism is a blind spot at best and an insult at worst. And keep in mind, her coalition is WELL to the left of where she's generally been. Support for socialism and progressivism scales with how black and brown and non-straight people are. So if Hillary betrays this coalition, she'll lose.

Does it matter that she needed vocal opposition before she came out against the TPP? Does it matter she flip-flopped in the right direction? Maybe. After all, there is the threat she can always flip flop back. But she does still want to win 2 terms, and i assume she does want a legacy. Does it matter her husband signed NAFTA? Yes. Does it matter that she praised Kissinger? Hell yes it does. Does it matter what happened overseas? Yes, I oppose those aspects of her policy and I think those are what we should pressure her the most to change; her hawkish inclinations are a product of the 90s and a product of possibly needing to overcompensate for sexism. At the same time though, you can't lionize Franklin Delano "Internment and Strategic Bombing" Roosevelt, John F "Bay of Pigs" Kennedy, and Lyndon Baines "Vietnam" Johnson and then have Hillary's comparatively lesser moral failings be dealbreakers for you. I understand why it's easy to think she's a neoliberal shill, because to be relevant in American politics, you sort of have at least make a few neoliberal shill noises. The question is, what are you going to do about it? We have a politician that is clearly willing to compromise and change her views based on the political winds. But that means the task falls to us to direct those political winds, rather than wait for a savior. Hillary is not a savior either, but she is ultracompetent, intelligent, and even though it often gets masked by the insanity of traditional American foreign policy, she has a strong sense of empathy and caring, which shows in the reaction of people who work with her, i.e "I'd crawl over broken glass for her", paraphrased". And as of today she's promoting and campaigning on progressive policy (far beyond even 2008, when she was to the left of Obama on many issues). It's up to us to keep her that way."

[SunSeeker]

1. K & R

[BootinUp]

2. THats a sensible socialist. nt

[teamster633]

3. If this didn't get any attention in GD-P just wait...

...it will get plenty of negative attention before too long.

[Thinkingabout]

4. Good to hear writer has arrived in supporting Hillary.

There are a few points which I see posted time after time which needs to be corrected. Yes she has been supportive to the LGBT community, and yes she opted for civil unions, Mr Civil Union Sanders was also for civil unions at one time. On the hawkish issue, Sanders has voted many times for military action, more than Hillary and he has voted for regime change.

On trade, this is a responsibility of the president, Sanders has said he is against trade deals, then why in the hell is he running for President when he does not want to assume the responsibility of the presidency.

Hillary is not perfect but she is smart, strong and very qualified.

[forjusticethunders]

10. Ah, yes, Sanders is a fraud on those issues.

Because of the context of the OP I responded to with that post initially, I specifically tried not to refer to Sanders or compare Hillary's positions with him. But it is absolutely disingenuous to bash Hillary for voting for military action and then support Bernie "Lockheed" Sanders.

[RogueTrooper]

13. That's an outstanding piece of writing

[Cha]

5. Thank you for this, Starry.. it's great when people come around and

see that Hillary is quite qualified to make an excellent President.

[johnp3907]

6. Love it!

Everyone I know assumes I'm for Sanders because I'm a socialist. It's like when I say I like Punk Rock and people assume I'm into Green Day.

[Starry Messenger]

7. I'm in the same boat too.

Great analogy.

[northoftheborder]

8. Excellent reasoned essay and critique of HRC

[forjusticethunders]

9. Woo I can actually respond to this now, thanks again Cha

Last edited Sat May 28, 2016, 12:25 PM - Edit history (1)

I think one fundamental barrier for me was that I bought too hard into the whole "Lady Macbeth" caricature of Hillary, so I assumed that Hillary was well, "Shillary". Once you get into that frame of mind, anything she does can be spun to be some kind of nefarious plot. I also had hard feelings from 2008; I thought her embrace of Obama was wholly cynical after that campaign. But that's the power of doing research.

Also I got too much of my political info from clickbait leftism outlets, places like Counterpunch and Alternet. And don't get me started on Revleft.

Finally a lot of my change was coming on here and reading more mainstream liberal/left thoughts and actually seeing a variety of views; so much of politics on the Internet is an echochamber by design, built to reinforce what you think you already know.

I'm still not 100% with Hillary in the sense I don't support everything she does (I despise Kissinger as much as any Berner, that hasn't changed for example) but it's really, really selfish to throw out the baby with the bathwater just because there are aspects things you morally disapprove of, ESPECIALLY since the other candidate will be 10x worse. Trump might invade ALL of the Middle East within 100 days, and that's just the start. And really, has anyone 100% agreed with a politician, even ones they liked? I didn't agree 100% with Obama, hell maybe not even 50%, but I love the guy because of what he has accomplished in the face of unprecedented hatred, and done it with style and grace.

And in the end of the day, we're talking about revolution, we're talking about huge structural change in America, and who is for that? Who has been the drivers of that in American history? POC, particularly black people, particularly black women. Guess who they are voting for? And the thing about Hillary is that she listens and that was one of the biggest pleasant surprises. She listens. When you do your own research, it becomes clear that those 25 years of "vetting" worked, because it was designed not just to make you believe wrong things about her, but to associated her (and Bill) with bad shit on a subconscious level (GOP propaganda will be examined by future historians the same way they examine that of totalitarian dictatorships).

And any "revolution" that ignores POC, women, LGBT and other marginalized groups isn't one at all. How do you build socialism without the people who would presumably be uplifted most driving it? How do you say to us "Hey, this movement is gonna liberate you, now get out of the way so we can do the liberating"? Sounds like white man's burden to me. How are you going to get moderates and people who associated socialism with the Soviet Union when you just scream at them and tell them they're shills and corporate w****'s? I'll take the conciliatory, reality-based approach of the Hillary movement, thanks. And it is a movement; it may not fill stadiums, but it does fill voting booths, and that's what counts.

[Starry Messenger]

12. Nice to have you!

Thank you, Cha!

I love your last paragraph there especially.

[sarae]

15. Well said.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

[kstewart33]

11. Great post. Thanks! nt

[Koinos]

14. K & R

[Her Sister]

16. KnR

Nice to have forjusticethunders here!

[Kath1]

17. Right on!

Excellent post. K&R!

[SharonClark]

18. Awesome post