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Mon Dec 28, 2015, 04:40 PM

Can someone please explain the hostility at DU to me?

I ask elsewhere and am attacked. The scales here sure do seem to be tipped against Hillary Clinton supporters.

I have not identified myself as a Hillary Clinton supporter; I've only said that I would support her if she wins the nomination mostly because I oppose Republicans and their agenda. That doesn't seem to matter. I am for all intents and purposes painted as a Hillary Clinton supporter. I don't particularly mind that since I'm pretty sure she will win the nomination, absent something crazy. I don't like the smearing and don't see any good that will come from it.

I've been through the last iteration of this. Have we learned nothing or what?

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Arrow 164 replies Author Time Post
Reply Can someone please explain the hostility at DU to me? (Original post)
Cary Dec 2015 OP
handmade34 Dec 2015 #1
Cary Dec 2015 #3
byronius Dec 2015 #2
Cary Dec 2015 #5
George II Jan 2016 #160
libodem Dec 2015 #6
Cary Dec 2015 #9
whathehell Dec 2015 #32
Cary Dec 2015 #34
whathehell Dec 2015 #39
Cary Dec 2015 #40
whathehell Dec 2015 #112
Cary Dec 2015 #114
calimary Dec 2015 #141
calimary Dec 2015 #140
Cary Dec 2015 #143
Coolest Ranger Dec 2015 #154
calimary Jan 2016 #155
Hekate Dec 2015 #149
byronius Dec 2015 #23
Cary Dec 2015 #33
byronius Dec 2015 #45
Cary Dec 2015 #47
byronius Dec 2015 #48
Chemisse Dec 2015 #27
Ellen Forradalom Dec 2015 #56
mgmaggiemg Dec 2015 #62
lovemydog Dec 2015 #69
wildeyed Dec 2015 #97
ronnykmarshall Dec 2015 #142
Hayduke Bomgarte Dec 2015 #19
Chemisse Dec 2015 #29
Hayduke Bomgarte Dec 2015 #53
LuvLoogie Dec 2015 #52
mgmaggiemg Dec 2015 #63
mgmaggiemg Dec 2015 #59
Squinch Dec 2015 #4
Cary Dec 2015 #7
Squinch Dec 2015 #8
Cary Dec 2015 #11
Squinch Dec 2015 #14
Cary Dec 2015 #15
Squinch Dec 2015 #18
Squinch Dec 2015 #20
Hekate Dec 2015 #150
Blanks Dec 2015 #22
Cary Dec 2015 #28
Blanks Dec 2015 #44
Cary Dec 2015 #46
mgmaggiemg Dec 2015 #67
treestar Dec 2015 #116
mgmaggiemg Dec 2015 #65
FarPoint Dec 2015 #81
SunSeeker Dec 2015 #83
Cary Dec 2015 #84
fleabiscuit Dec 2015 #85
mgmaggiemg Dec 2015 #64
Squinch Dec 2015 #74
mgmaggiemg Dec 2015 #75
fleabiscuit Dec 2015 #86
Squinch Dec 2015 #90
Agnosticsherbet Dec 2015 #10
FloridaBlues Dec 2015 #16
Lil Missy Dec 2015 #12
Cary Dec 2015 #13
FloridaBlues Dec 2015 #17
Lil Missy Dec 2015 #30
Demit Dec 2015 #21
Lil Missy Dec 2015 #24
Cary Dec 2015 #26
mgmaggiemg Dec 2015 #68
Cary Dec 2015 #25
mgmaggiemg Dec 2015 #70
Cha Dec 2015 #77
Lil Missy Dec 2015 #78
Cha Dec 2015 #80
Lil Missy Dec 2015 #82
NastyRiffraff Dec 2015 #31
Cary Dec 2015 #36
RandySF Dec 2015 #35
MADem Dec 2015 #37
Cary Dec 2015 #38
MADem Dec 2015 #49
Cary Dec 2015 #60
mgmaggiemg Dec 2015 #66
fleabiscuit Dec 2015 #87
MADem Dec 2015 #88
Gothmog Dec 2015 #41
Cary Dec 2015 #43
okasha Dec 2015 #123
Cary Dec 2015 #42
MADem Dec 2015 #51
Ellen Forradalom Dec 2015 #50
Ellen Forradalom Dec 2015 #55
mgmaggiemg Dec 2015 #71
Ellen Forradalom Dec 2015 #117
Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #54
calimary Jan 2016 #156
Starry Messenger Jan 2016 #161
FarPoint Dec 2015 #57
mgmaggiemg Dec 2015 #72
mgmaggiemg Dec 2015 #58
Cary Dec 2015 #61
lovemydog Dec 2015 #73
madamesilverspurs Dec 2015 #76
Coolest Ranger Dec 2015 #93
Rose Siding Dec 2015 #106
underthematrix Dec 2015 #79
Coolest Ranger Dec 2015 #89
Cary Dec 2015 #91
Coolest Ranger Dec 2015 #92
Cary Dec 2015 #94
Coolest Ranger Dec 2015 #95
Cary Dec 2015 #99
Coolest Ranger Dec 2015 #102
Cary Dec 2015 #103
Squinch Dec 2015 #153
Ineeda Dec 2015 #96
Cary Dec 2015 #98
wildeyed Dec 2015 #100
Cary Dec 2015 #101
wildeyed Dec 2015 #104
fleabiscuit Dec 2015 #113
AwakeAtLast Dec 2015 #105
Cary Dec 2015 #107
Cha Dec 2015 #109
wildeyed Dec 2015 #115
Cha Dec 2015 #108
Cary Dec 2015 #110
Cha Dec 2015 #111
okasha Dec 2015 #124
Cha Dec 2015 #126
NEDem Dec 2015 #118
Cha Dec 2015 #120
NEDem Dec 2015 #122
Ellen Forradalom Dec 2015 #125
NEDem Dec 2015 #135
Cary Dec 2015 #133
George II Dec 2015 #119
Cary Dec 2015 #121
applegrove Dec 2015 #127
Cary Dec 2015 #128
Fla Dem Dec 2015 #147
Sancho Jan 2016 #157
applegrove Jan 2016 #159
yardwork Dec 2015 #129
SunSeeker Dec 2015 #130
Cary Dec 2015 #131
SunSeeker Dec 2015 #132
Cary Dec 2015 #134
SunSeeker Dec 2015 #136
wildeyed Dec 2015 #137
Cary Dec 2015 #138
wildeyed Dec 2015 #139
Cary Dec 2015 #144
wildeyed Dec 2015 #145
Cary Dec 2015 #146
Hekate Dec 2015 #148
liberal N proud Dec 2015 #151
BlueCaliDem Dec 2015 #152
freshwest Jan 2016 #158
Cary Jan 2016 #162
Tarc Jan 2016 #163
Cary Jan 2016 #164

Response to Cary (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 04:46 PM

1. I can only

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Response to handmade34 (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 04:48 PM

3. Thanks. Hugs back.

Still want to understand.

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 04:47 PM

2. People take their inner angst and channel it through politics, religion, lifestyle --

Classic primate. And there's a segment of Bernie supporters who insist that you cannot love Bernie unless you hate Hillary, a very weird phenomenon since Bernie himself emphatically doesn't hate Hillary. Some of them are clearly trolls; some are just frustrated, and lashing out with extreme hatred against anyone who is not exactly them.

I think it's these times. People are under great stress, and it's turning everything up to 11.

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Response to byronius (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 04:51 PM

5. It's no different than 8 years ago, IMHO.

I think it's more lizard, personally. They seem, to various degrees, to be unable to engage in any discussion without changing the subject to something about me, personally. And when I point out that they are changing the subject they act like I'm crazy.

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Response to Cary (Reply #5)

Fri Jan 1, 2016, 04:41 PM

160. It was similar 8 years ago, but no nearly as venomous as it is this year and hopefully only.....

....for the next month to 6 weeks ago.

The difference, other than the level of nastiness, was that back then it was the Clinton supporters (a completely different group) going after the Obama supporters.

And then sadly once Obama took office a whole new cadre of attackers turned on him, complaining only weeks into his administration that he didn't carry out his entire agenda in only a few weeks.

I'm curious to see where the attacks will be directed come March 1 through March 15, when it will become evident that Clinton will have wrapped up the nomination.

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Response to libodem (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 04:55 PM

9. Exactly!!!!

I don't understand the hostility here. It's about policy, not personality. Isn't it?

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Response to Cary (Reply #9)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:54 PM

32. It's supposed to be..

I read recently that approximately 70% of Democrats are committed to voting for whoever gets the nomination

and I'm one of them -- The absolute ONLY intelligent thing to do with the Fascist jackals at our heels.

I'm sorry you're getting hostility -- I read most posts about both candidates, but rarely initiate

any, as I don't like fighting about them, especially when I'm going with the nominee, anyway.

I've come to the conclusion, Cary, that there are quite a few here who just REALLY enjoy fighting.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #32)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:58 PM

34. Agreed

I read that only 14% of Bernie Sanders supporters will that their ball and go home.

I don't think they matter. They just nullify themselves.

But I don't think they should hold sway here DU. For some reason they are way over represented.

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Response to Cary (Reply #34)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 06:10 PM

39. Yes, I think that's true of Hilary supporters as well.

It's the only sane course.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #39)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 06:12 PM

40. I am not getting it from Hillary supporters.

No one has banned me here.

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Response to Cary (Reply #40)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 06:29 PM

112. One reads complaints about being thrown off her forum too.

I'm staying out of it.

I'm reading and making up my own mind. I'm just not that interested in fighting.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #112)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 06:55 PM

114. So I have been told but I have not experienced any

Not one Clinton supporter here has changed the subject and said anything negative about me personally.

What happened to others I cannot say, since I wasn't there.

I don't really care that much. It's only an internet board. What I do care about is having Democrats win in November.

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Response to Cary (Reply #34)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 09:27 PM

141. I agree, Cary.

Sometimes I'll slide by long enough to check the home page and it's Bernie Sanders-Bernie Sanders-Bernie Sanders-Bernie Sanders-Bernie Sanders and then some Bernie Sanders on top of it. Just not worth it.

I'm getting it on the phone now, too. Progressive Democrats called trying to raise money for Bernie Sanders. I told them I'm not contributing because I'm for Hillary. Got a nervous giggle in response: "OH... (big pause) Okay."

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Response to whathehell (Reply #32)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 09:23 PM

140. YES there are quite a few here who just REALLY enjoy fighting.

One big reason why I'm not here much anymore. Life's too short.

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Response to calimary (Reply #140)

Thu Dec 31, 2015, 07:56 PM

154. There are also quite a few who want people like me to shut up

and not say anything negative about their candidate. POC are being run off of Democratic Underground

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Response to Coolest Ranger (Reply #154)

Fri Jan 1, 2016, 12:57 PM

155. Well, as a Hillary supporter, I understand that one first-hand.

POH (People of Hillary) are being run off Democratic Underground, too. Myself included. I'm hardly ever here anymore. For my own sanity's sake.

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Response to Cary (Reply #9)


Response to libodem (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:40 PM

23. What a great meme. Thanks.

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Response to byronius (Reply #23)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:55 PM

33. Not sure what you're trying to say

Why can't you stick to the issues? Bernie is awesome. But why the personal attacks? Why not stick to the issues?

That's where you lose me. I really don't understand the game, and I don't appreciate it either.

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Response to Cary (Reply #33)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 06:56 PM

45. I think you've responded to the wrong post.

I was commending the meme posted above asking for comity.

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Response to byronius (Reply #45)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 07:07 PM

47. I see. I misunderstood you.

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Response to libodem (Reply #6)



Response to libodem (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 08:28 PM

69. Thanks for posting that.

I like Martin, Bernie and Hillary.

Love Barack!

I feel we'd all be much better off with more people like all four of them.

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Response to libodem (Reply #6)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 12:31 PM

97. Awww, that's nice!

And high five to you for being the BEST Sanders campaigner I have seen around these parts in a long time. That is good persuasion piece targeted at a voter who is unfamiliar with Sanders and likes Clinton, but might be on the fence about voting for her.

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Response to libodem (Reply #6)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 09:50 PM

142. Smoooches!

Love this picture and love YOU!

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Response to byronius (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:25 PM

19. There is also a segment of Bernie supporters

Who appear to have gone over the edge.

I got banned from their group several days ago for no rational reason. I agreed with an OP that was not under any dispute and added what I meant to be a little food for thought, in relating what a small group of millenials I'm acquainted with, through my daughter and her fiance, and what they said they'd do and what they actually did do, during the last 2 elections.

I can only guess, judging from the replies and 3 PMs I got, that they have a problem with actual and factual occurrences they find unpleasant.

I PMed the host that banned me to ask why and to qualify what I said and he lacked the class and grace to respond.

Then I got PMs from 3 different people telling me, in round about ways, what a despicable POS I am.

No evident logic, rhyme or reason to it, other than I somehow ran afoul of the "primates" which you speak of, and one happened to be a host.

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Response to Hayduke Bomgarte (Reply #19)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:49 PM

29. That is what happened to me!

One post in the Bernie group and I was banned. (I am undecided, but they seemed to think I had an agenda - perhaps was even a mole for the other side - lol!).

No response when I messaged the person who ousted me. Thankfully, no hate mail though.

It definitely does not reflect well on Bernie Sanders.

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #29)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 07:58 PM

53. Yeah

I wasn't even a subscriber to the group. The post I replied to was in the Latest section, though it was cross posted from the clique, er group.

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Response to Hayduke Bomgarte (Reply #19)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 07:54 PM

52. Because they are vandals, not revolutionaries.

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Response to Hayduke Bomgarte (Reply #19)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 08:19 PM

63. agree bs supporters have gone over the edge

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Response to byronius (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 08:15 PM

59. agree

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 04:51 PM

4. My position is the same as yours, which got me banned from the Bernie group.

They're nuts over there.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 04:52 PM

7. Ha!

Yes, I got banned from the Bernie group and I posted absolutely nothing negative about Bernie. Actually I like him very much.

Odd.

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Response to Cary (Reply #7)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 04:55 PM

8. Me too. I'll vote for whoever is nominated. I responded to a poster who said he would not

vote for Hillary if she was the nominee by saying, "So you're supporting Trump?"

Which is only the logical conclusion.

They didn't like that. You should have seen the pile-on. It was loony.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:02 PM

11. Yes, it is looney.

But worse than that, they are using "conservative" smears.

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Response to Cary (Reply #11)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:07 PM

14. Yes. It's short sighted, and obviously works against their own interests in the long run.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #14)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:10 PM

15. What are their interests?

They are largely unfazed by any discussion of their interests. I just had one of them give me a short laundry list of things that I pretty much agree with, and was told without me saying anything that I am a corporatist and an oligarch or whatever.

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Response to Cary (Reply #15)


Response to Cary (Reply #15)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:27 PM

20. Actually, I've chosen to self-delete my response to you, because there has been way too

much alert-stalking on this group. Just another feature of the Bernie Underground!

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Response to Squinch (Reply #20)

Thu Dec 31, 2015, 07:18 PM

150. Good point

I think I may do the same

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Response to Cary (Reply #15)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:37 PM

22. I'm sure a lot of Bernie's supporters are republican trolls...

Simply because it is OK to hate Hillary if you like Bernie. I imagine they sign up and since long time members have such disdain for Hillary, and all you have to say is "I'm a Sanders supporter..." Trolls can be expected to have arrived in droves.

The ugly that I see generated by the Berniebots can only come from the opposition. I have no problem with Bernie, but he's not a democrat, and most of what he wants to see happen originates in the body of government that he's already occupying. He's kind of like Ron Paul in that respect: wants things to go his way, but doesn't take the steps necessary to advance his program, i.e. sponsor legislation that forwards his vision, talk other legislators into supporting his program etc.

Obviously, if he's the nominee, I'll vote for him because I'm a dyed in the wool democrat, but he doesn't impress me all that much. He certainly isn't charismatic enough to make me constantly display anger toward democrats, and very little that he talks about on the stump would come to fruition if he's elected.

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Response to Blanks (Reply #22)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:47 PM

28. I have listened to him on Thom Hartman

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Response to Cary (Reply #28)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 06:53 PM

44. I've seen him many times...

I dont agree with everything he says, but it'll be alright if he wins. My concern is that all of the negative press, the 'no difference between the two parties' mentality is damaging to the democrats down ticket.

I'd rather see a democrat win the democratic nomination.

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Response to Blanks (Reply #44)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 06:58 PM

46. That makes total sense to me.

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Response to Blanks (Reply #22)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 08:25 PM

67. agree about high number of GOP trolls....

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Response to Blanks (Reply #22)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 08:37 PM

116. Yes, I'm astonished at the amount of hatred they

have for Hillary; you have to wonder if other Democrats would really hate a Democrat that much - sounds far more like right wingers.

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Response to Cary (Reply #11)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 08:22 PM

65. exactly...using t-party smears

there are a lot of rwnj's out there that are supporting Bernie but voting very right wing when it comes time to fill in their ballot.

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Response to Cary (Reply #11)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 11:37 PM

81. So, let's think about that...

Republican smear tactics with talking points from Mars....??? Yeap...GOP infiltration comes up as a logical explanation. To be honest, when I read their posts here...I seriously don't feel that a Democrat is talking to another Democrat ...I've never experienced such instant vile scum chatter ever when face to face with another Democrat... Only a TEABAGGER.. That is my experience... Just saying.

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Response to FarPoint (Reply #81)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 11:54 PM

83. Yep, that's the feeling I get as well. nt

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Response to FarPoint (Reply #81)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 12:19 AM

84. Perhaps

I don't know. I do know to never try to teach a pig to sing. The pig never sings it just gets mad at you. Yes that rule applies to teabaggers. So maybe...

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Response to FarPoint (Reply #81)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 01:45 AM

85. History does not have to flow in a linear fashion for them. eom

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Response to Squinch (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 08:20 PM

64. I can see I am quite at home here...

lets start a group of posters banned by Bernie supporters

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Response to mgmaggiemg (Reply #64)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 08:43 PM

74. I bet we could get a big group of people who would be perfectly happy to VOTE for

Bernie, but who have been banned by the Bernie group.

I plan to vote for whoever will be most likely to beat the Republicans at primary time (according to polls that are NOT internet polls and NOT "un-skewed". It will probably be Hillary, but if it's Bernie, I'm fine with that.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #74)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 01:49 AM

86. Its a trap! :-) n/t

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Response to fleabiscuit (Reply #86)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 08:23 AM

90. Soylent green is peeeeeeeeeople!

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:01 PM

10. I see it sort of like this.

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Response to Agnosticsherbet (Reply #10)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:12 PM

16. Reading their post against Hillary are vile at times

When I read all the nasty comments one can't help but feel there are either republicans, green or libertarian certainly not a registered democrat but than again neither is their candidate.
One who has put down the party as recently as October
Maybe they are taking the que from sanders.
Take heart and look at the longer picture
( Super Tuesday ) and working hard to get Hillary elected!!
They will eventually write less diaries

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:02 PM

12. I get nothing but hostile responses from them too.

They seem to twist anything said to mean something conspiratorial in nature or they are hostile over the most innocuous comments. I just expect it anymore.

But one big thing to remember - once the Democratic nominee has been determined, they have to take their poopy comments elsewhere and stop the HRC bashing and hatred. The board will return to a better level of sanity with all their bickering, pulling at straws, making mountains out of molehills, and other crap gone.

Frankly, as obnoxious as some of them are, I kinda feel sorry for them. They have backed themselves into a corner with no way out now, and some big disappointments are coming their way. They are the ones that are going to feel kinda stupid when he falls flat on his face with overall support in ALL OF the Primaries.

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Response to Lil Missy (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:04 PM

13. Were you here 8 years ago?

I don't know if they're going to feel stupid. They don't seem to be capable.

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Response to Cary (Reply #13)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:18 PM

17. I was 8 yrs ago and some posters just took their dislike for Obama

But the posting did get less nasty after awhile.

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Response to Cary (Reply #13)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:51 PM

30. Not Quite 8 years ago - I got here in 2007.

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Response to Lil Missy (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:28 PM

21. I don't wonder why.

 

them, they, they, they, them, them, they, they.

Your comments are not "innocuous." Your comments here are no less hostile than those of the commenters you "kinda feel sorry for." No wonder you expect hostility back. You all bask in it.

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Response to Demit (Reply #21)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:43 PM

24. Aaaaand ... another one to prove my point! A broad brush "you all ask for it" attack.

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Response to Lil Missy (Reply #24)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:45 PM

26. Exactly

It's called "gaslighting"

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Response to Lil Missy (Reply #24)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 08:27 PM

68. great advice

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Response to Demit (Reply #21)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:43 PM

25. Yes it's my fault that posters turn it against me personally.

Like you just did. It's my fault.

I should not raise any issue that concerns me. The nerve of me to express myself.

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Response to Cary (Reply #25)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 08:29 PM

70. exactly.....

you are being censured for not "falling in line" typical misogynist tactic.....the men supporting HRC are not doing this.....if they disagree they may say so ...but they don't censure women, or put words in their mouth....or attack them....

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Response to Demit (Reply #21)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 09:08 PM

77. Nah, no one is "basking" in anything.. that's just another worthless accusation from

those in denial.

This is Hillary's Group.. you need to respect the boundaries of protected groups.

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Response to Cha (Reply #77)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 09:16 PM

78. that originally said you all asked for it. Now he has changed it to.

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Response to Lil Missy (Reply #78)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 09:49 PM

80. "Ask for it"? Ask for what? A Propaganda free zone where we're free of

disruptors?

Yeah.. but, the disruptors keep coming anyway... lol.

Lil Missy

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Response to Cha (Reply #80)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 11:43 PM

82. It appears that's all they've got

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 05:54 PM

31. I sympathize, Cary

I wish I could offer you an explanation, but the only one I can think of is that some Sanders supporters don't allow anything but praise, praise, praise for their hero. Anything less than virtual worship is condemned, and is followed by spewing hatred and vitrol about Hillary.

I support Hillary Clinton, but I don't think she is a saint sent from heaven. (I don't even believe in heaven!) She has some flaws, like everyone else on the planet, including (gasp!) Bernie Sanders. That last would get me immediately banned from the Sanders group!

It's 2008 all over again, but even worse than I remember, possibly because we have fewer candidates to focus on.

Try not to let it worry you; talking to these people is a waste of time. I think, though (I hope!) most Sanders supporters are reasonable people who will vote for the Democratic nominee.

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Response to NastyRiffraff (Reply #31)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 06:00 PM

36. I love Hillary Clinton too.

The smears are atrocious.

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 06:00 PM

35. A good number of them appeared after Bernie announced

Someone suggested they were on other board and made their way over.

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 06:02 PM

37. DU has always skewed well to the far left of the real world.

At least in terms of many of the more vocal participants.

To put it in perspective, there are people here who were convinced that Dennis Kucinich would be POTUS one day. UTTERLY convinced. They'd get pissed off if you tried to introduce a small measure of reality and probability to the discussion. They allowed bias towards their candidate to cloud their judgment. They are not representative of the bulk of the party, but they are vocal and they want to be heard. No harm in letting them talk, so long as they do it without vitriol.

Also, during primary season, new people will sign up here. Some are interested in political discussion, others are interested in political disruption. It's hard to sort them out at times. Usually you just have to wait a bit, and the trolls will show themselves. Sometimes, though, they bubble just under the surface for a long, long time, and they manage to keep their disruptive tenor just under the level where alarm bells sound and they're 'outed' as shit stirrers.

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Response to MADem (Reply #37)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 06:08 PM

38. Sure, I agree

No problem in letting them talk about policy.

But the gaslighting is just pure nastiness. It has no place here yet it is not just tolerated it seems to be enabled.

Hey I could walk away from here without missing a beat but my message has always been to defeat Republicans. I am just amazed that I can be gaslighted for that.

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Response to Cary (Reply #38)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 07:35 PM

49. I agree with you completely about the rudenesss. It's the personal invective that gets especially

mind-boggling.

Poster A: "I don't like Candidate X because of his views on A, B and C."

Poster B: "You're an ugly poopy-butt who probably has unnatural relations with a relative!!!!!"

You're left saying "WTF????????"

Come on, Super Tuesday....this primary can't get 'done' soon enough~!

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Response to MADem (Reply #49)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 08:23 PM

66. completely agree

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Response to MADem (Reply #49)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 02:04 AM

87. TFTFY

"Poster A: "I don't like Candidate X because of his views on A, B and C."

Poster B: "You're an ugly poopy-butt who probably has unnatural relations with a relative!!!!!"

You're left saying "'WTF????????'"

(INBOX: You have been blocked from posting in the My God group by reallyniceguy. If you believe this is an error, you may contact reallyniceguy for more information.)

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Response to fleabiscuit (Reply #87)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 03:21 AM

88. Yes--the big finish is icing on the cake! nt

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 06:16 PM

41. DU does not reflect the Democratic Party or the real world

If DU reflected the true base of the Democratic Party, then Dean or Kucinich would have been the nominees of the Democratic Party. I personally like Sanders and according to that online quiz, Sanders is closer to my positions than Hillary Clinton but I live in the real world and I do not believe that Sanders is viable in the general election.

The good news is that things will calm down to a large degree after Super Tuesday

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #41)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 06:22 PM

43. Cognitive dissonance.

That's the only thing I can say.

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #41)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 11:01 PM

123. I hope it will calm down.

I have no faith that it will. The rage and denial are bad now. I expect them to be worse after Super Tuesday.

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 06:20 PM

42. I know I know.

I am an idealist. What can I say?

I expect to come to DU and to be able to carry on a civil, collegial discussion about progressive or liberal policies. I have no right to expect that and if I dare to fend off the personal attacks then I'm just a terrible person.

Good grief.

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Response to Cary (Reply #42)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 07:39 PM

51. Best way to respond is to point out, politely, what the person is doing.

I asked about a problematic policy position, and you responded with a disparagement about my parentage.

I criticized a stance, and you accused me of working for the other side.[/i


I questioned a commitment to Issue X, and your reply was to make fun of my (insert personal characteristic here).

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 07:37 PM

50. Hillary is still female, so no, no one has learned nothing.

And they never will.

I expect her to bulldoze right through it with competence and grace.

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Response to Ellen Forradalom (Reply #50)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 08:00 PM

55. I just got yelled at in an entirely different context

by a fervid Bernie supporter with some pretty brazen Bern-the-Witch rhetoric. Apparently I'm a bad feminist who wants to see women and children murdered if I like Hill. Sigh.

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Response to Ellen Forradalom (Reply #55)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 08:32 PM

71. that's pretty much it

the rwnj's and the exteme lefties are using the same rhetoric and demonizing attack tactics....love your avatar....

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Response to mgmaggiemg (Reply #71)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 09:18 PM

117. Thanks!

I designed it 15 years ago!

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 07:58 PM

54. A couple of them like to think they are some kind of bird-dog.

Mostly it's like little kids trying to snap your bra-strap or something. I don't mind honest critique, I have used it myself.

But lying about what someone said, or misrepresenting their position, or sealioning an issue to death--meh. I remind myself that whatever it is one is doing at any given time isn't delivering high poll numbers for their candidate and it doesn't really matter if they feel they were #winning on the internet.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #54)

Fri Jan 1, 2016, 01:56 PM

156. Whoa, Starry - I just looked that up.

About
Sea-Lioning is an Internet slang term referring to intrusive attempts at engaging an unwilling debate opponent by feigning civility and incessantly requesting evidence to back up their claims. The term was coined in September 2014 by anti-GamerGate Internet users to mock perceived online discussion tactics employed by GamerGate supporters.

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/sea-lioning

WHOA! "Incessantly requesting evidence to back up their claims." WHOA!!! I've lost count of how often I've seen that elsewhere here. CONSTANT demands to produce proof, produce links (over and over and over: "Link?", and then snarking "Crickets." Or "SEE! They can't produce any proof!!!" "They can't back up what they say!!!!" "That proves it RIGHT THERE!!!!"

MAN! That's a revelation, Starry Messenger! I had no idea. I'd never heard of that before (you learn something new every day!). But then again, I'm no gamer, never have been, not interested in it, never been in or looked at that world. I know NOTHING about that stuff. I know other parents whose kids locked themselves in their bedrooms and gamed all day. Even well into and after their teens. I thank God my kids didn't do that. They kinda got interested in the real world, instead.

I never bit on those demands here because all that info has been discussed, detailed, referenced, links produced, and posted again and again, earlier in the year. Or, as one of us posted (paraphrasing): "check out the Hillary Clinton website - it's ALL there," and provided THAT link. Still no good. Still didn't work. Still didn't help. Still didn't turn the heat down. Still made no difference. Proof, at least to me, that the only thing that's desired here is simply to stir shit up. Which leads to suspecting disruptors, moles, and trolls.

Maybe most of 'em are gamers?

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Response to calimary (Reply #156)

Fri Jan 1, 2016, 07:19 PM

161. I just found that term myself recently.

It was a revelation to me too. It was very freeing, since now I can choose to ignore the nagging, since I know it is totally insincere and is only employed to harass.

And yes, I think DU has some overlap with a user base that has less than savory net-citizens. You can usually tell when someone really wants information, and when someone is just being a sealion from the attitude.

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 08:11 PM

57. Maybe I'm dense.....

I really believe that our DU has been infiltrated with GOP trolls on a mission to stifle our Democratic Discussion. Keeping Democrats divided is their goal...Just my sense on the matter. It works because I only cruise into DU daily for a casual glimpse.
Additionally, the jury system with successful hides on bogus alerts also stifle progressive discussion.

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Response to FarPoint (Reply #57)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 08:33 PM

72. agree....

I'm getting hides by rwnj trolls as well

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 08:14 PM

58. dear cary

I too am smeared....DU seems to be BS headquarters....they don't appreciate any forensic debate on the issues and pretty much just treat Bernie as if he walks on water and is the messiah.and painting HRC as if she were the devil incarnate...it's just sleazy car salesmen tactics.........second ...Bernie like trump gets a lot of the angry white male supporters who fraudulently stuff words in the mouths of their women (mothers, grandmothers, wives, girlfriends, sisters, daughters, aunts, cousins etc) saying "my (mother grandmother etc) says such and such about xyz issue"....intending to silence the female voice and vote. I like Bernie but I don't like the Bernie campaign....misogyny is the same as xenophobia and racism...it's gender bigotry... again ...like bernie but not the campaign....HRC is most admired woman in america for a reason...so just tell everyone who doesn't like her that they will be buying the beer when she's sworn in 2017 Cheers, and Happy New Year, Maggie

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Response to mgmaggiemg (Reply #58)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 08:17 PM

61. Thanks.

Happy New Year to you too.

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 08:36 PM

73. I'm sorry that's happened to you Cary.

It's happened to me a couple of times. I try to laugh to myself. Then give a response like 'I'm not a Hillary Clinton supporter in the primaries but I'd gladly vote for her in the general election.' Or 'I'm still undecided in the primary and my State votes very late so my vote may not much matter, but I'll support the democratic nominee.'

I figure if someone's being that mean or weird toward me, they probably aren't very happy at the time. So I try not to take it too personally. I kind of hope they feel better later. And not give them any ammunition to go off on another rant. Good luck and happy holidays!

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 09:01 PM

76. I'm sticking with this until we have a nominee ---

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Response to madamesilverspurs (Reply #76)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 09:38 AM

93. While that is great in theory

some of the supporters make it way too personal and too hard. Getting down right rude and disrespectful

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Response to Coolest Ranger (Reply #93)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 05:01 PM

106. The most rude and disrespectful junk doesn't even get hidden

Case right smack dab on point:

"I wouldn't fuck you even with someone else's dog's cock."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1107&pid=30492


Not. Hidden.

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 09:21 PM

79. Well I think what I've noticed is the

number of negative posts about HRC. Some of them are childish and petty. I commented on another that was racist. I'm voting for HRC but I would definitely vote for Bernie in the general if I HAD to. The bottom line is we have to VOTE BLUE no matter how we feel about a candidate or their supporters.


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Response to Cary (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 07:33 AM

89. I would like to know

where is all this negativity our camp seems to have towards the Bernie Sanders crowd. Time and time again, i scour social media looking for evidence of it but yet what I find is they are the ones causing the problems. I don't get it.

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Response to Coolest Ranger (Reply #89)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 09:09 AM

91. You're right

Not one person in "your camp" has attacked me personally. Not a single one.

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Response to Cary (Reply #91)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 09:32 AM

92. So why do people continue

to make the charge then?

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Response to Coolest Ranger (Reply #92)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 10:05 AM

94. My unprofessional diagnosis:

About a third of the population is sociopathic. A favorite tactic of sociopaths is called "gaslighting." Sociopaths use it because it is effective.

According to Wikipedia:

Gaslighting or gas-lighting is a form of mental abuse in which information is twisted or spun, selectively omitted to favor the abuser, or false information is presented with the intent of making victims doubt their own memory, perception, and sanity.

There is no cure for a sociopath. Treatment only makes them more effectively sociopathic. Any information you give to a sociopath is likely to be used against you if it suits their purpose.

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Response to Cary (Reply #94)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 10:55 AM

95. Thank you for that

I had been seeing that word thrown around the past few weeks and I had no clue what it meant. I learned something new today thank you.

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Response to Coolest Ranger (Reply #95)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 12:46 PM

99. You're most certainly welcome

What do you think? I've spent a lot of time researching that and mulling it over.

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Response to Cary (Reply #99)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 01:47 PM

102. It makes a lot of sense to me

You did a good job researching it. I value people who take the time to write stuff that makes me think.

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Response to Coolest Ranger (Reply #102)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 02:06 PM

103. there is a lot out there on sociopaths

It is worth some research since we run into them in real life.

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Response to Coolest Ranger (Reply #95)

Thu Dec 31, 2015, 07:48 PM

153. Which can only mean that you haven't seen the movie

that the term comes from. "Gaslight." It's an old Ingrid Bergman movie, and it's really great. You should see it.

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 11:17 AM

96. This is exactly like the RW's Obama Derangement Syndrome.

I'm fervently pro-Democrat. Period. I have not chosen a side. But the behavior of the two 'teams' are not equivalent here on DU, not by a mile, and I'm trying not to let Bernie supporters' activities here sway me. Frankly, the "Hillary Derangement Syndrome" faction is a huge turn off. Sadly, the Bernie team loses.

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Response to Ineeda (Reply #96)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 12:45 PM

98. I had not thought of it in those terms, exactly

Thanks. I was indeed looking for different perspectives.

I am not going to hold it against Bernie. I agree with the idea that we really have no idea who or what the perpetrators of this are. They are individuals, at the end of the day, so they are each responsible for their own actions.

I am more interested in moving the Democratic Party forward. I don't like the word "progressive." I prefer the word liberal but either way I see us, as a whole, being pretty unified as to our goals beyond who gets to be at the head of our ballot. That's why I like both Bernie and Hillary. I don't think either of them will constrain us--both will take us as far as they can within the reality of limitation that is "conservatives." I think President Obama has done that and is doing that.

"Conservatives" are my real enemy, and I think we see their underlying hate and anger bubbling up as we speak. The Supreme Court is of critical import. We have so many positive common goals.

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 01:20 PM

100. Yes, me too.

Dunno why they do it. Maybe a Sanders supporter can explain? It is extremely off-putting and damaging to their candidate. But if you say that, you are going to get attacked as promoting the "mean Sanders supporter meme". Well maybe it is a meme for a REASON. But whatever....

And then they get to "fucking hillarian" and something about camp weather vane.... And where can you go after that but straight to the big H group?

Also, the admins on this site, in all their infinite wisdom, gave us the ignore button and ability to trash certain forums. I have been taking full advantage recently.

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Response to wildeyed (Reply #100)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 01:33 PM

101. Their only explanation, so far, is some variation of the gaslighting tactic

I.e. it's my fault.. I don't express myself well enough for them, I do it to them (totally false), I'm some kind of evil "corporatist" or whatever, .... you know the drill.

When I say I agree with them, that never helps. It only seems to motivate them further to try to somehow undermine me as a human being.

And hey, they will never ever do that. I'm not totally stupid. I'm not looking for sympathy here. This really does interest me and my quest for knowledge has a broader goal of getting Democrats elected. I feel it will help me in that to understand what makes these people tick.

And finally, my apologies for "these people." I really don't know how else to refer to them. I don't think it's fair to characterize them as Sanders supporters--that seems unfair to real Sanders supporters who act rationally and in good faith.

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Response to Cary (Reply #101)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 02:26 PM

104. Being on the receiving end of the abuse

gives me better insight into why many conservatives loathe liberals. Seriously. I will be a much better campaigner as a result.

Corporatist, oligarch, elitist, those are favorites. They have appropriated the historical figures FDR and MLK without any true understanding of their legacies. Really offensive, misogynistic slurs are common. Posting horrible, disproven RW conspiracies about the Clintons is now ok, up to and including Vince Foster. Dunno what to say about it.

I know people like this in the real world, which means they are not all trolls and plants. I just looked at one (guy I knew in high school) who is in time out on my Facebook. He posted TEN Sanders articles in the last 24 hours. Another (also on ignore) has six. In a SINGLE day

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Response to wildeyed (Reply #104)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 06:43 PM

113. True.

I wonder if anyone thinks about him being a group member of the .00000183333 percent of Americans with true national power.

I love irony.

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 03:58 PM

105. Once you make it through a Primary cycle on DU

You will get a better understanding of this place. This is nothing new, and quite frankly, better than 2004 and 2008 (so far).

A lot of us still carry the scars.....

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Response to AwakeAtLast (Reply #105)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 05:09 PM

107. I was here

Most of my friends haven't returned. It was very nasty, for no good reason.

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Response to Cary (Reply #107)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 05:12 PM

109. It's worse now for obvious reasons.

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Response to Cary (Reply #107)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 07:52 PM

115. For me, last time was not bad.

I supported Obama, but didn't think he could win, and still really like Clinton. I never even posted, that I can remember, in the Obama forum. I posted positive stuff about Obama sometimes, but never took any hits from her supporters. It seemed to me that if you stay positive, you were pretty much left alone, even in GD: P.

Right at the end, I remember it getting really testy in certain quarters, but again I did not participate much in that kind of thing.

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Response to AwakeAtLast (Reply #105)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 05:12 PM

108. I was here too.. and it's worse now.

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Response to Cha (Reply #108)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 05:21 PM

110. Yes you were!

Fellow veteran of the BOG. We had fun though.

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Response to Cary (Reply #110)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 05:25 PM

111. Yes, we did and yes we are!

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Response to Cha (Reply #108)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 11:27 PM

124. Much worse now.

In 2008, some shit got through, and Haweye's original iteration somehow remained unbanned, but the Admins were engaged, and the moderation was effective.

What we have now is pit fighting.

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Response to okasha (Reply #124)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 12:17 AM

126. And, it's set up for the minority to lose in the censored dept. I'm so sick of walking

on fucking eggshells.

As everyone knows I got a HIDE because the alerter lied and the jury couldn't be bothered to check it out

Tell me how that is fair?

Or a gd birther.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=927365

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

calling me a birther

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Sun Dec 20, 2015, 03:08 AM, and voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Does not harm my feelings, but is unnessecary rude and does nothing useful for the further debate.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: this term birther needs to die, and not be used as a insult around here
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Sounds like the poster is calling the previous poster a birther. Personal attack.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No, they're referring to Trump.



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Response to Cary (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 09:40 PM

118. It isn't just DU

Kos has gotten just as bad. Pretty much anywhere there is a Democratic leaning discussion, some very rude and vile people have taken over. Same rhetoric, same nasty comments, same RW talking points. I was here in 2008, it is worse now, but it will get better.

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Response to NEDem (Reply #118)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 10:05 PM

120. As if they're actually there working against BS.. because they're sure not doing him any favors.

That's all in his name and who wants to support someone associated with that?

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Response to Cha (Reply #120)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 10:29 PM

122. Yeah, I don't get it

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Response to NEDem (Reply #118)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 11:27 PM

125. Kos got extremely nasty towards Hillary supporters in 2008

Well documented by Riverdaughter at the time.

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Response to Ellen Forradalom (Reply #125)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 03:53 PM

135. It's started up again over there that is for sure.

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Response to NEDem (Reply #118)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 03:48 PM

133. Very rude an vile people ...

Thanks NEDem.

It helps me to know that I'm not the only one sensing this.

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 09:47 PM

119. Probably because they're frustrated that their candidate is in a nosedive.

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Response to George II (Reply #119)

Tue Dec 29, 2015, 10:27 PM

121. Of course

And that is all my fault, so take it out on me.

It's all about me. Even if it's not about me it's about me.

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 04:33 AM

127. Paid GOP trolls hired to pit Bernie supporters and Hillary ones

against each other so that Bernie supporters hate Hillary so much they don't vote for her in the general election if she wins the nomination. They had a few practice runs over the years taking settled DU and Democratic issues like feminism and race and ginning up hatred between DUers on those topics that turned into wars. Now they do it with Bernie and Hillary, and the settled issue that we want a Democrat to win the white house is fading Many Berie supporters say they will not vote for her now. So of course they would add making the internet a hostile place for Hillary curious people. It benefits the GOP directly. Superpack money can pay for the trolls. We are supposed to be none the wiser. All so that they don't have to pay taxes on their massive wealth.

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Response to applegrove (Reply #127)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 07:42 AM

128. The only problem is that the number of people affected are too few to matter

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Response to applegrove (Reply #127)

Thu Dec 31, 2015, 04:04 PM

147. You hit the nail on the head. DU has been infiltrated by hired GOP disruptors.

I don't doubt there are genuine fervent Bernie supporters, probably a lot from the OWS crowd. But the hate and venom against Hillary is so over the top it can only be GOP disruptors trying to drive a wedge between true Hillary and Bernie supporters. True progressives would not try to kill one of their own even if they are not as progressive as they would like in order to bolster their nominee. In the chance (a very big chance) Hillary may be the candidate, why would any progressive/liberal want to tear down their candidate before the convention. The GOP will have a fine time trying to do that during the general election. I just hate to see individuals from our own side giving them the ammunition.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/

Iowa Democratic Caucus....................Gravis.................Clinton 49, Sanders 31, O'Malley 10.......Clinton +18
New Hampshire Democratic Primary...... ARG.................Sanders 43, Clinton 46, O'Malley 3.........Clinton +3
S Carolina Democratic Primary...... CBS News/YouGov......Clinton 67, Sanders 31, O'Malley 2.........Clinton +36

The good news, we've only got 2 more months to deal with it. By March 5th many major primaries elections will be concluded and a clear front runner will emerge.


Date (all 2016) State

February

Monday, February 1 Iowa caucus
Tuesday, February 9 New Hampshire
Saturday, February 20 Nevada caucus (Dem) South Carolina (GOP)
Tuesday, February 23 Nevada caucus (GOP)
Saturday, February 27 South Carolina (Dem)

March

Tuesday, March 1(Super Tuesday)
Alabama
Alaska (GOP)
Arkansas
Colorado caucuses
Georgia
Massachusetts
Minnesota caucuses
Oklahoma
Tennessee
Texas
Vermont
Virginia

Saturday, March 5
Kansas caucus,
Kentucky (GOP caucus)
Louisiana
Nebraska (Dem caucus)

http://www.uspresidentialelectionnews.com/2016-presidential-primary-schedule-calendar/#spfjP8CB9jpgw5Ap.99

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Response to applegrove (Reply #127)

Fri Jan 1, 2016, 02:42 PM

157. I think this is it...

Some operatives are obvious. Skinner should ban them.

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Response to Sancho (Reply #157)

Fri Jan 1, 2016, 04:09 PM

159. When they pretend to be good duers it is very hard to figure them out. I would imagine they are both

Hillary and Bernie 'supporters'. Skinner has a thankless job.

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 09:24 AM

129. Some people are frightened of strong women.

A lot of the words used to describe Hillary are very old stereotypes and slurs traditionally used to undermine women who don't "behave" in traditional ways; i.e., docile and subservient to men.

This discomfort with strong women who are taking on roles traditionally reserved for men affects both men and women. These biases can co-exist with more progressive views. In other words, a person might be very progressive on lots of issues, but still carry a deep-seated discomfort with female leaders.

If you look at the actual words used to describe the candidates, you can see that some people are more comfortable with a male leader. If their beliefs are challenged, they can get quite vicious.

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 10:17 AM

130. It's not you, it's all Hillary supporters on DU.

We get hides for stating facts about Sanders while Sanders supporters can hurl right wing epithets at Hillary with iimpunity.

Example:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=959020


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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #130)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 10:42 AM

131. The tail wags the dog here at DU

There are more people who are Democrats and will vote for the Democratic nominee regardless than there are Bernie or nothing types. So why do they hold sway here?

It's not going to make or break me but I would love to come to DU as a staunch Democrat without having to walk on eggshells for it. I guess that's my real gripe here. I really don't understand why I, with a majority opinion (and a big one), can get attacked by these people and they seem to be protected.

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Response to Cary (Reply #131)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 10:51 AM

132. All I can figure is the flame fests drive up clicks.

And clicks are why this board is in business, so the site allows it.

What is happening though is that DU jury-censored Hillary supporters have been driven off to other sites, creating a vicious cycle of more anti-Hillary stacked DU juries driving off more Hillary supporters.

We'll see if things change once Bernie concedes.

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #132)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 03:50 PM

134. I honestly don't understand it

And I don't know what to do about it either, except to express my opinion.

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Response to Cary (Reply #134)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 03:58 PM

136. Well, for what it's worth, I'm glad you're here.

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Response to Cary (Reply #134)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 04:15 PM

137. Yes, you are allowed to express your opinion.

But be very careful, because they will hide it if they can. They can curse and call you names, but you CANNOT respond in kind. You must have skin like a rhinoceros.

And don't get sucked down the rabbit hole of rhetorical questions and logical fallacies they use to derail legitimate questions.

Some genuinely don't understand the difference between fact and opinion, others just don't care. But stick to your guns, demand the facts and you CAN win!

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Response to wildeyed (Reply #137)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 05:13 PM

138. Win what?

I have no such agenda. To me winning means having Democrats win. I could not care less about "them" whoever and whatever they are. They can believe they are better than I am to their hearts' content, it is no skin off my nose.



But thanks for the advice wildeyed, because you are giving me the feedback I asked for and it's good enough just to know you understand. What "they" do achieve with their behavior is confusion. Because if they're more significant than I believe them to be, we're screwed.

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Response to Cary (Reply #138)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 07:55 PM

139. I too believe that winning in the big picture means

Democrats winning. But this is a website mostly dedicated to political discussion and debate. I like to debate, and when I debate, I like to win

As you know, there are all different flavors of Democrat, liberal and progressive here, all ages, religions and ethnicities, from different geographical areas. We span a pretty large swath of beliefs. Discussion often gets heated. Sadly, we have gone from heated to ugly recently, IMO.

No one here is what I would term a "persuadable" voter. We have all pretty much decided where we stand on the primary. And if I was campaigning, there are far more efficient ways to do that in the real world. So if I am here right now, I either trash talk in GD: P or hang in this forum or in the AA forum (I am enjoying several GREAT discussion there right now, particularly the one about AA authors. Check it out if you like books!).

Once we have a nominee and the General Election cycle kicks off, people will either get with the program and support the Democrat or be gone. And the GOP politicians are even more horrendously despicable than usual, so beating them should get any REAL progressive/liberal/Democrat's engine revving when the time comes.

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Response to wildeyed (Reply #139)

Wed Dec 30, 2015, 11:19 PM

144. I see the marketplace for ideas as just that

I am more about putting my ideas out there and letting them float. If others find them useful that's great. If not, so be it.

I'm getting swarmed by "conservative' friends at Facebook as I write this. I don't know how to respond to their stupidity.

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Response to Cary (Reply #144)

Thu Dec 31, 2015, 02:27 PM

145. Presidential years are the worst.

I try to keep my FB mostly non-political these days after that time I had to block one of my uncles and an old friend from high school

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Response to wildeyed (Reply #145)

Thu Dec 31, 2015, 03:15 PM

146. Yes. I agree.

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Thu Dec 31, 2015, 07:11 PM

148. We have learned nothing, apparently. There's a whole lotta really toxic crazy out there.

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Thu Dec 31, 2015, 07:23 PM

151. It has become similar to trying to talk to a Republican

Some groups of people become hostile if you don't agree with them or conform to their point of view.

Makes you wonder about where they came from

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Thu Dec 31, 2015, 07:31 PM

152. Except for a VERY FEW exceptions, it's indicative of a Sanders supporter's tendencies.

Just ignore what you can. The primaries will be over on Super Tuesday, and things will quiet down a great deal when it's clear Sanders cannot win the Democratic Party nomination even with all the unnecessary anger.

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Fri Jan 1, 2016, 03:44 PM

158. You've made a good thread with excellent points here. Thanks. n/t

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Response to freshwest (Reply #158)

Fri Jan 1, 2016, 10:20 PM

162. I'm glad you find it useful

My bottom line is that Democrats must win. We have way too much at stake.

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Response to Cary (Original post)

Sat Jan 2, 2016, 03:23 PM

163. Some Sanders supporters are largely young children of privilege

and they were apparently never taught how to deal with people who hold opposing points of view. That teaching can be good in some respects, e.g. people who express hatred for other ethnicity or sexual preferences aren't "just expressing an opinion", they are bigots.

Hillary and Bernie though are on the same side, with some minor differences and opinions on how to tackle the same ideals. But they cannot seem to accept that; to them, deviating from the "Bernie Message" even slightly leads one to be branded an enemy. It' a weirdly rigid way of thinking, not unlike religious dogmatism.

I really hope that this is just a small yet shrill minority of the Sanders camp.

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Response to Tarc (Reply #163)

Sat Jan 2, 2016, 03:32 PM

164. Their hubris and righteous indignation can be used against them

Just refuse to play their stupid ego games. Laugh a lot.

They get really upset when you don't allow them to change the subject.

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