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Mon Feb 15, 2016, 12:35 PM

Revolt Against Superdelegates (Hillary Clinton Group)

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/bernie-sanders-superdelegates-democrats-219286

As we know, Clinton commands a wide lead in superdelegates...therefore the process itself is corrupt, unfair, and must be abolished.

I've tried to point out to these sorts that the Primary process is not an election, it's the decision as to who will represent the Democratic Party. Of course the officials (the vast majority of whom ARE THEMSELVES elected to office) get a say as to who they can and are willing to work with--or simply prefer.

In a more personal observation, I feel that any candidate should read, understand, and realize that they have to play by the rules before running for office in a given party.

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Arrow 40 replies Author Time Post
Reply Revolt Against Superdelegates (Hillary Clinton Group) (Original post)
Treant Feb 2016 OP
FloridaBlues Feb 2016 #1
Stuckinthebush Feb 2016 #14
TTUBatfan2008 Feb 2016 #21
stopbush Feb 2016 #28
fleabiscuit Feb 2016 #29
BlueMTexpat Feb 2016 #2
fleabiscuit Feb 2016 #33
KitSileya Feb 2016 #3
MADem Feb 2016 #4
Cha Feb 2016 #6
MADem Feb 2016 #16
Cha Feb 2016 #5
Treant Feb 2016 #9
Cha Feb 2016 #11
dlwickham Feb 2016 #17
sheshe2 Feb 2016 #22
Thinkingabout Feb 2016 #7
Bleacher Creature Feb 2016 #8
quickesst Feb 2016 #10
Cha Feb 2016 #13
quickesst Feb 2016 #15
Cha Feb 2016 #35
quickesst Feb 2016 #37
cosmicone Feb 2016 #12
Tarheel_Dem Feb 2016 #18
Rose Siding Feb 2016 #19
wysi Feb 2016 #30
Starry Messenger Feb 2016 #20
still_one Feb 2016 #23
fleabiscuit Feb 2016 #34
33taw Feb 2016 #24
Treant Feb 2016 #25
kryptoniandawn Feb 2016 #26
Treant Feb 2016 #27
wysi Feb 2016 #31
Cha Feb 2016 #36
wysi Feb 2016 #39
Cha Feb 2016 #40
wildeyed Feb 2016 #32
Hekate Feb 2016 #38

Response to Treant (Original post)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 12:40 PM

1. Well if Sanders doesn't like how the Democratic Party runs primaries

Perhaps he should have ran as the Independent that he is. The superdelegate rules has been in for decades nothing new!

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Response to FloridaBlues (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 01:23 PM

14. I bet he'd get the Democratic Socialist Party nomination

I wonder why he didn't try that party.

OH.....that's right. There isn't one. He had to crash our party with his (I) and now his supporters are mad that he has to play by our rules.

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Response to Stuckinthebush (Reply #14)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 01:53 PM

21. Be glad he didn't run Indy...

It would have cost the Democratic Party the election in November. When the time comes he will endorse Hillary and that will help the party a heck of a lot more than if he ran Independent.

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Response to TTUBatfan2008 (Reply #21)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 04:06 PM

28. Not certain. Had Bernie run as an Independent

he would be a footnote in this campaign. I doubt he would have had the $ to get on the ballot in every state.

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Response to TTUBatfan2008 (Reply #21)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 04:19 PM

29. Maybe trump will pick him for running mate. eom

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Response to Treant (Original post)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 12:44 PM

2. People don't know their

history at all. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superdelegate Many of those who do, don't seem to care.

Their extreme - and downright silly - reactions will likely cause more SuperDs than ever to dig in their heels for Hillary now than to switch. But switch they will - IF and ONLY IF - Bernie wins the majority of pledged delegates, i.e., wins the majority of the remaining primaries/caucuses.

Bernie's campaign and supporters show how they expect NO rules to apply to them whatsoever, whether those rules be those of the DNC or the FEC. That does not bode well with working together with anyone or for respect for the law in general. These ongoing temper tantrums about anything and everything show a very vicious underbelly.

If one wants the party's backing and the use of its resources, one abides by the party's rules. Period.

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Response to BlueMTexpat (Reply #2)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 07:15 PM

33. +1 n/t

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Response to Treant (Original post)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 12:44 PM

3. Well, there's only one candidate whose adviser helped come up with superdelegates

And it is not Clinton. Instead, Sanders is the candidate whose top adviser, Tad Devine, is considered a leading expert on the nomination process in the Democratic party because he, Devine, worked on the delegate reform process in the '80s.

In other words, Sanders' supporters are showing their ignorance.

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Response to Treant (Original post)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 12:52 PM

4. The Republicans are working hard to plump up this fake-poutrage meme.

http://www.wmur.com/politics/state-republican-party-launches-online-petition-supporting-bernie-sanders/37999744

In my lifetime we didn't have fifty state primaries. "We, the People" never picked our primary candidates. The party bosses did, because the job of the candidate is to represent the PARTY--not necessarily the preferences of any old independent who wants to vote in a primary for purposes fair or foul.

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Response to MADem (Reply #4)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 12:58 PM

6. Did you know this?..

Fun fact: Tad Devine, a key Sanders advisor, is credited as the person who helped create the superdelegate system.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1107&pid=47715

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Response to Cha (Reply #6)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 01:29 PM

16. Oh, the IRONY!! And no, I did NOT know that!!

How amusing!! I guess where you stand depends on where you sit!

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89369899

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Response to Treant (Original post)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 12:55 PM

5. The DNC Didn’t Sabotage Bernie Sanders’ Campaign with a Delegate Conspiracy

snip//

Now, for the facts. For months it’s been widely known that Clinton has led Sanders in superdelegates. Granted, many Sanders supporters might not know that because most of the pro-Sanders pages and websites would likely never tell them that. But it’s been a well-known fact for many months.

For the record, a “superdelegate” is someone who’s free to support whoever they want regardless of how the primaries and caucuses go.

Fun fact: Tad Devine, a key Sanders advisor, is credited as the person who helped create the superdelegate system.

So, that in and of itself sort of nullifies the idiocy of this “conspiracy.” It’s rather ridiculous to claim a “conspiracy against Sanders” based upon a system that one of his top advisors created and defended.

Time for some more facts: When it comes to New Hampshire, Sanders won more state delegates (15) than Clinton (9) – just as he was supposed to. But because of the six superdelegates who support Clinton, she could end up with 15 as well (2 others are still undecided).

MOre
http://www.forwardprogressives.com/dnc-didnt-sabotage-bernie-sanders-campaign-delegate-conspiracy/

Thank you, Treant for inspiring me to find this..

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Response to Cha (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 01:04 PM

9. You're welcome!

I've come to the conclusion that the DNC isn't sabotaging Sanders' campaign.

Sanders and his supporters are entirely capable of doing that all on their own.

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Response to Treant (Reply #9)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 01:11 PM

11. Right... nobody does it better.

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Response to Cha (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 01:33 PM

17. This needs to be posted every day

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Response to Cha (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 02:30 PM

22. ^^^THIS^^^

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Response to Treant (Original post)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 12:59 PM

7. Maybe those complaining about the super delegates should tell Sanders if he ever had

aspirations to run for president he should have used his time in congress to have developed relationships and working patterns which is important to functioning in congress and building a coalition to get bills passed, he did not get any major bills passed therefore he did not have a coalition with other members. He will be as successful as president as he was a congressional member, just another time of doing nothing. He agreed to the DNC rules and now supporters realizes he did not do the necessary work to get endorsements from other congressional member and now they don't like the rules.

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Response to Treant (Original post)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 01:03 PM

8. Party membership isn't just a trivial matter.

Sanders spent 30+ years bragging about his refusal to join the Democratic Party. I know that he and his supporters view it as a badge of honor - as if he took some sort of "principled" stand - but it carried huge consequences. His refusal to be a part of building party infrastructure, both on DC and the states, to fundraise on behalf of Democrats, and to be involved in drafting rules, has consequences.

He joined the party last summer in order to obtain the benefits of running on the ticket, but he's got a lot of nerve to complain about rules he easily could have been involved in drafting - had he chosen to be involved.

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Response to Treant (Original post)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 01:05 PM

10. Just to keep it out there...

Snip:

"Take for instance the conspiracy I’ve seen pushed all over social media following the New Hampshire primary. Many people now seem to think that the DNC is trying to rig the election for Hillary Clinton by “awarding” more delegates to her than Bernie Sanders, who soundly won New Hampshire. Several huge liberal Facebook pages with millions of “likes” were pushing this nonsense, getting tens of thousands of people to share it with their friends and family. Not only that, but I saw several other liberal Facebook pages sharing articles from conservative websites which were trying to hype up this “story” in a calculated attempt to push the conspiracy. All based on the fact that a system that’s been around for decades is being attacked by people who seemingly have no idea how it actually works. Now, for the facts. For months it’s been widely known that Clinton has led Sanders in superdelegates. Granted, many Sanders supporters might not know that because most of the pro-Sanders pages and websites would likely never tell them that. But it’s been a well-known fact for many months. For the record, a “superdelegate” is someone who’s free to support whoever they want regardless of how the primaries and caucuses go. Fun fact: Tad Devine, a key Sanders advisor, is credited as the person who helped create the superdelegate system."

Say again!...FUN FACT: TAD DEVINE, A KEY SANDERS ADVISOR, IS CREDITED AS THE PERSON WHO HELPED CREATE THE SUPERDELEGATE SYSTEM.

Read more at: http://www.forwardprogressives.com/dnc-didnt-sabotage-bernie-sanders-campaign-delegate-conspiracy/

He defended the system until now. Guess he must have "evolved".










http://www.forwardprogressives.com/dnc-didnt-sabotage-bernie-sanders-campaign-delegate-conspiracy/

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Response to quickesst (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 01:18 PM

13. I posted the same info up thread, quickesst! GMTA!

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Response to Cha (Reply #13)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 01:28 PM

15. Oops!

In my inattentive defense, I'll use the old "It can't be said enough" standby.

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Response to quickesst (Reply #15)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 10:43 PM

35. Oh yeah.. I wasn't thinking it shouldn't be posted twice.. I just meant it's

neat that we both had the same answer for his OP.

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Response to Cha (Reply #35)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 10:55 PM

37. Gotcha!!

I've always said great minds think alike. and then there are people like me who just get lucky every once in awhile.

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Response to Treant (Original post)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 01:12 PM

12. Anything against Bernie must be torn down to pieces.

 

The ridiculous revolution is on!

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Response to Treant (Original post)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 01:41 PM

18. "they have to play by the rules before running for office in a given party."

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Response to Treant (Original post)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 01:42 PM

19. This is so disturbing to the gop that they launched a pro-Sanders petition

MANCHESTER, N.H.
The New Hampshire Republican Party wants the state's Democratic superdelegates to support Vermont U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders in his bid for the Democratic presidential nomination.

In an online petition launched Monday, the Republican Party says that even though Sanders won the state's primary last week by 22 percentage points, when the votes of the party's superdelegates are taken into account, the party's delegation appears to be split 15-15 between Sanders and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article60446596.html#storylink=cpy


But WHY? wondered no one.

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Response to Rose Siding (Reply #19)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 04:37 PM

30. The gop

Can fuck right off.

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Response to Treant (Original post)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 01:47 PM

20. No wonder his supporters had been so cocky about his prospects tho--

It amuses me that they just caught up to this wrinkle in their game-plan.

Hillary plays by the rules and is winning, therefore unfair!!11

The big criticism of her campaign in 2008 (logistics-wise) was that she hadn't put as many resources into getting the technical points needed to get more delegates. She's ameliorated that, and now it's an outrage!11

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Response to Treant (Original post)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 02:43 PM

23. A few days ago a Sanders' supporter tried to explain the process in a thread, and was subsequently

criticized by some fellow supporters.

It seems that you must abide by the "group think", or it is under the bus you go

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Response to still_one (Reply #23)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 07:24 PM

34. I thought I felt a disturbance in the farce.

Might get another one here asking "wtf happened?" after the ban.

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Response to Treant (Original post)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 02:51 PM

24. Sanders' supporters fail to realize that Hillary knew this a year ago.

Bernie's team finally realize that they need to have a 50 state strategy and a super delegate strategy. Unfortunately winning the upper NE and a few other states may not achieve their goal.

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Response to 33taw (Reply #24)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 03:07 PM

25. And when well over half the superdelegates

have already declared for Clinton, it's a bit late to be starting there as well!

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Response to Treant (Original post)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 03:21 PM

26. But

 

Are you really not worried that if the majority of us don't want Hillary, and the SD system pushes her through anyway, that it is a bad omen for the general election? I think you assume everyone who doesn't want Hillary will vote for her anyway, but many will not. Is it really a good idea to ask the public who they want, and then ignore that decision and run someone else? Can you show me precedent where this has happened and resulted in a positive election result?

I'm aware it's in in place for decades, but since it was put in place there have been two Democrat presidents. The system isn't exactly timeless and tested.

Take your own advice; the primary cycle is not an election. Forcing someone through doesn't mean they will win anything as a result. When the GE polls show her losing to everyone but Trump, and an eroding lead against even him, why insist on running her if she has a lower chance of winning?

Is the sense of satisfaction you get from knowing the elite are on your side really worth handing the GOP complete control of the entire government?

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Response to kryptoniandawn (Reply #26)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 03:33 PM

27. Welcome to the Hillary Clinton Group!

Keep in mind this is a closed group for supporters of Clinton only.

And no, I don't expect this will be necessary. Post Nevada's somewhere around a tie, Clinton starts racking up delegates. Sanders does not. By March fifth, the panic in the Sanders campaign should be obvious.

This is another case of "Special Rules for Sanders," as well as a severe lack of insight (and lack of ability to demonstrate cooperation) in his case.

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Response to kryptoniandawn (Reply #26)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 04:39 PM

31. You're not the majority...

... anywhere, except maybe on DU.

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Response to kryptoniandawn (Reply #26)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 10:50 PM

36. I've had enough of your disingenuous "elite" buzzword. Are the African Americans who are for

Hillary "elite"? Am I "elite".. my friends and family? I doubt we'd be considered elite.

Just a meme that has nothing to do with reality.

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Response to Cha (Reply #36)

Tue Feb 16, 2016, 01:56 AM

39. I totally missed the tell, Cha...

... "democrat presidents".

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Response to wysi (Reply #39)

Tue Feb 16, 2016, 02:07 AM

40. lol.. I didn't even see that.. he was yammering on about nothing so much.

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Response to Treant (Original post)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 04:54 PM

32. Yes, the party has a say

in who they nominate. People need to understand the rules of the game if they want to play. A bunch of the upset I hear is just sour grapes from people who are losing at a facet of the game.

But that said, I believe that the two main parties have made it waaaaay too difficult for third parties to compete. The lack of choice and the overwhelming power these two entities have on BOTH sides is part of the frustration that people are expressing right now. And the parties need to understand that, for the good of the country, we need to open up the process a bit.

I will take this moment for a public service announcement:

Instant-Runoff Voting or IRV will allow third party candidates to run without being a spoiler.

IRV is a preferential voting system in which voters rank the candidates in order of preference rather than voting for a single candidate.

You fill out your ballot, with the candidates in the order of your preference. Initially, the first choices are tallied. If no single candidate gets 51%, then the last finishing candidate is kicked out, and those voters 2nd choice is added in. This continues until on candidate achieves 51% or more of the popular vote.

That way, people can vote for a third party candidate without the fear of spoiling the election for the next best choice. People who have divergent political views that are not represented by one of the two parties can have a say.

I believe this would address the problem without the catastrophic upheaval that seems bound to happen if we don't make some voluntary changes soon.

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Response to Treant (Original post)

Tue Feb 16, 2016, 01:04 AM

38. Kickety - pop

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