Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
Tue May 12, 2015, 02:19 PM May 2015

The following is a question I posed to a DUer in the Bernie Group ...

While I did not see that it was the Bernie Group (and I meant no offense), I think there is value in posing the same question ... for the same reason ... in this Group.

Do you really believe HRC supporters or Bernie supporters are switchable? Both set of supporters are firm and fixed in their support.

Fishing in one another's tank does us no good ... The focus should be fishing in the ocean of non-HRC/non-Bernie supporters, thereby increasing participation (i.e., voter turn-out).

And, this would best be accomplished by strong positive messaging; rather than, attempting to sully the other Democratic candidate(s) ... I would love all Democratic candidates saying something to the effect of, "All of the Democratic candidates want the same direction for the country, any of us, with your support and effort, will get us their ... And, here is my plan to get us there" and at all costs, refrain from providing attack lines.
19 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
The following is a question I posed to a DUer in the Bernie Group ... (Original Post) 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 OP
Ony One Problem HassleCat May 2015 #1
Why not ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #4
Sure HassleCat May 2015 #14
Okay. n/t 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #16
That's not true. But let's assume for 1 second that it is. It's still not an issue because stevenleser May 2015 #18
KnR. This: refrain from supplying attack lines.". nt tblue37 May 2015 #2
I posted in there by accedent the other day and self deleted immediately. hrmjustin May 2015 #3
That seems to be the goal of a segment of DU ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #6
I love Sanders so it is hard to attack. hrmjustin May 2015 #9
I know ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #10
My position is that I support both rock May 2015 #5
I was thinking pre-primary ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #8
You're probably right (about being unswitchable if they've already chosen) rock May 2015 #11
True ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #12
If you'll pardon an intruder from "that other" group-- Jackpine Radical May 2015 #7
I kind of disagree on this ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #15
I second the other poster to you and reiterate what I said in #18 above stevenleser May 2015 #19
There are only a few of the die-hard "only" supporters OKNancy May 2015 #13
We have a great candidate with a real lead and real experience... yallerdawg May 2015 #17
 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
1. Ony One Problem
Tue May 12, 2015, 02:27 PM
May 2015

All the Democratic candidates do not want the same things, do not want the same outcomes, do not have the same vision for the country, and do not advocate the same way to get from A to B. Your proposed message applies only in the most general sense, so I guess the candidates could give the speech as sort of a preamble, then say, "And now here is where I differ from my opponent when it comes to specifics."

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
4. Why not ...
Tue May 12, 2015, 02:36 PM
May 2015
Your proposed message applies only in the most general sense, so I guess the candidates could give the speech as sort of a preamble, then say, "And now here is where I differ from my opponent when it comes to specifics." ... And this is my vision and how I attend to get us there and why I believe it, the right path.


See the difference?
 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
14. Sure
Tue May 12, 2015, 03:00 PM
May 2015

But I don't think Democrats should follow the Ronald Reagan script that reads, "We're all of one mind, and I'll shut off your microphone if you disagree." It's good to point out real differences. Sanders doesn't have to say, "My ideas are different from those of my corporate tool opponent." Clinton is not required to reply, "My plan is not the insane raving of some socialist tree hugger." Your proposal would not be accepted by any of the candidates, with the possible exception of Clinton, and she would accept it only as long as it helped bolster her image as the dominant front-runner.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
18. That's not true. But let's assume for 1 second that it is. It's still not an issue because
Wed May 13, 2015, 09:07 AM
May 2015

No matter what Democratic candidate we elect, they can't pass anything more than incrementalism.
We have a Republican controlled House and Senate. We don't have a chance of taking back the house for another seven years. Only an incremental policy has a hope of passing.

So this pretty close to impossible task you Bernie folks are attempting to achieve is a fools errand at best.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
3. I posted in there by accedent the other day and self deleted immediately.
Tue May 12, 2015, 02:36 PM
May 2015

Just looked in there and one post really pissed md off.

I just hope DU doesn't tear itself apart.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
6. That seems to be the goal of a segment of DU ...
Tue May 12, 2015, 02:40 PM
May 2015

and to be quite honest; it is playing out in a lot of forums/groups ... even this group (though on a lesser scale).

You are doing a good job setting the tone here by supporting the candidate of your choice and NOT attacking other candidates.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
10. I know ...
Tue May 12, 2015, 02:51 PM
May 2015

I am supportive of both candidates for different reasons; but, oppose to neither of the candidates.

Funny ... that seems to be a difficult concept for some to grasp.

rock

(13,218 posts)
5. My position is that I support both
Tue May 12, 2015, 02:38 PM
May 2015

You're probably thinking WTF? But I do not have an overwhelming favorite. I am waiting to see how it plays out. I like what both candidates say and I've been following Hillary for many years. I just getting to know Bernie and find that I agree with his platform planks. As for being switchable, I was for Hillary in 2008 and immediately switched to Obama when he won the nomination.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
8. I was thinking pre-primary ...
Tue May 12, 2015, 02:43 PM
May 2015

Again ... anyone with a candidate chose this far out, is unlikely to switch ... especially as a result of intra-partisan attacks.

rock

(13,218 posts)
11. You're probably right (about being unswitchable if they've already chosen)
Tue May 12, 2015, 02:52 PM
May 2015

Which is a good reason to be cautious when making that choice. Though to be honest I would tickled to support either of the leading contenders.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
12. True ...
Tue May 12, 2015, 02:55 PM
May 2015

I am supportive of both candidates for different reasons; but, oppose to neither of the candidates.

Funny ... that seems to be a difficult concept for some to grasp. (I'm, apparently, on the verge of being blocked in another group for a similar line of thought as this thread ... says a lot about that group, compared to this one. )

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
7. If you'll pardon an intruder from "that other" group--
Tue May 12, 2015, 02:41 PM
May 2015

The division ends when the nomination outcome is clear.

There is no way in Hell I'd vote for any Republican, or do anything to jam up a Democratic victory in 2016.
Although I can most likely not claim a perfect record on this, in my mind, personal attacks on any of our candidates or their suporters are off-limits.

That said, I think it serves every candidate well to get their positions fully elaborated and explored, to be tested on the issues, to identify weakness and strengths, etc.

After all, this is still a sort of hothouse in which I presume there are underlying principles and perceptions of reality on which almost all of us stand in accord, in stark contrast to the lunatic, dirty and deceptive attacks that will be unleashed on our candidates, whomever they may be, by the rabid crazies and their well-heeled, cynical masters in the cesspit that passes for our opposition party.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
15. I kind of disagree on this ...
Tue May 12, 2015, 03:36 PM
May 2015
That said, I think it serves every candidate well to get their positions fully elaborated and explored, to be tested on the issues, to identify weakness and strengths, etc.


Neither HRC, nor Bernie, will be challenged by republicans in the General Election on their leftist differences ... so the testing and preparing of a primary only serves to hurt, should either Bernie or HRC choose to attack ... republicans won't hear; but, Democrats and non-aligned, certainly will hear the weaknesses.
 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
19. I second the other poster to you and reiterate what I said in #18 above
Wed May 13, 2015, 09:11 AM
May 2015

Pick an issue where you think Hillary and Bernie disagree, and then imagine the bills to support their policies going to the Republican House and Senate.

This shouldn't be a surprise or news to anyone after the last 6 years.

Nothing of what you think makes Bernie different from Hillary gets out of committee in either house of congress.

OKNancy

(41,832 posts)
13. There are only a few of the die-hard "only" supporters
Tue May 12, 2015, 02:59 PM
May 2015

after the candidate is clear, I'm sure most will support the Democrat.

Now, support is relative. Look at all the bashing of our Democratic President.
Some people just can't see nuance in anything. They are always distrustful, believe the worst, and have a deep dislike of anything the USA does. There are no terrorists, no one is happy except the 1%, all jobs suck, and on and on.

Not all of the people in the Sanders camp believe this way, however many of them love to poke at Hillary and post every negative article they can. Very few Hillary supporters do the same to Sanders. I haven't said one bad thing about him and I have some things I could say.

One thing though. Hillary will win this thing so I can sit back and be pretty smug about it all.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
17. We have a great candidate with a real lead and real experience...
Tue May 12, 2015, 04:58 PM
May 2015

and she could become the first woman president, another notch in our progressive belt!

I can say this without 100 comments bashing Hillary and every word in my statement because I am in a protected group. Safe haven!

What a shame.



Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»Hillary Clinton»The following is a questi...