I thought the Hillary Clinton Group might find this response from skinner interesting.

[hrmjustin]

Last edited Wed May 27, 2015, 08:26 PM - Edit history (1)

HILLARY CLINTON ROOM


It is a shame but his post is very true. Lord knows Hillary gets trashed and it is hearbreaking.

Wish we could just attack Republicans.

It was intended to imply an aggressive anti-Republican orientation.

We were the "Underground" fighting against the Republicans, who were in power at the time.

Ironically, it seems that many people took the name to mean "Underground fighting against Democrats." I was so naive. Back when I started this site I had no clue so many Democrats hated Democrats.

http://election.democraticunderground.com/12597937#post1

[onehandle]

1. Wow!

Speechless.

[hrmjustin]

2. Yep.

[shenmue]

3. Yes!

[hrmjustin]

4. So glad he said it.

[sheshe2]

5. Wow!

I am glad he said too, justin.

[hrmjustin]

6. It needed to be said.

[Cha]

7. It's posted in the Barack Obama Group, too.. and, of course, infiltrated by those who

don't care or bother to respect the rules.. even though it was stated in the OP.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1102&pid=29172

Of course, valid criticism should be welcomed but the ugly vitriol is what rules too many with their ignorant cheap pot shots.

Mahalo Justin.

[hrmjustin]

10. Of course.it was clearly marked.

[okasha]

8. Thank you, Skinner.

[hrmjustin]

11. Agreed. a huge thank you to skinner.

[OKNancy]

9. I love Skinner

Wish he was my son or something. Mom-crush.

[hrmjustin]

12. lol. I hope to see him posting again.

[Hekate]

96. Ha! I hope to see him smiting trolls again. Spring cleaning. nt

[Thinkingabout]

13. Glad to see this.

We know Republicans are going to trash Democrats, we as Democrats do not need to help with the trashing. Thanks Skinner.

[hrmjustin]

14. Yes. We need to get past the bickering.

[workinclasszero]

15. It is sad that Democratic Underground has become a hate Hillary site.

No difference between the anti clinton garbage, innuendo, conspiracy theories and outright lies posted on this board a hundred times a day and freakrepublic/redstate etc.

The Hillary haters here use the exact same right wing sources that ******Rush and Hannity do. They quoted the right wing screed "Clinton Cash" like the gospel and now are doing the Clinton Foundation conspiracy BS.

No illegalities ever found or proven but that don't stop or even slow down the reich wing or Bernie fans!

I guess we aren't the only people that notice what this former democratic board has become.

Its very sad IMO.

[hrmjustin]

20. The fact that we see right wing links shows they will stop at no cost to take her down.

[workinclasszero]

21. I agree they take the low road just like their right wing counterparts

Have you also noticed that the vitriol is increasing massively against the President as well? SMH

[hrmjustin]

22. It has gotten ugly really quickly.

I uderstand ttp is controversial but my God the things said is just wrong.

[workinclasszero]

34. Its crazy how low this board has sunk

in such a short time.

I can't imagine how bad its going to be a few weeks before the first primaries.

[hrmjustin]

36. Thank God mirt is calm.

Knock on wood but hosting the forums is also calm for the most part.

[Andy823]

31. I have noticed that also

I also notice that the same people who were bashing the president for years now, are the same ones that are doing the bashing of Hillary. I also have notice many very low count posters joining in the bashing and helping to increase the recs from the local bashers of the president, and Hillary.

I wish there was a way stop the insanity, but as long as people post their hate, and other rec it up over 100 recs, it will continue. Sadly a lot of good threads get pushed off the front page and never get a chance to be disused.

[workinclasszero]

37. Yes we are in the minority here sadly

Good luck if someone alerts on your posts. The juries are packed with Bernie backers. I've been slapped down twice myself recently.

And some of the jurors were pretty insulting and surly in their comments as well!

[hrmjustin]

39. Yes. Juries have become harder for HRC supporters.

I got alerted on a typo in here ladt night and 2 voted to hide it.

[workinclasszero]

41. Wow smh /nt

[hrmjustin]

42. Thankfully i had friends on the jury.

[Thinkingabout]

55. Probably the typo was oblivious and the alerter just was not able to recognize it.

[hrmjustin]

56. They want to get a hide on me.

There are a few here that get pissed that i don't get hides.

[Thinkingabout]

62. I gotcha.

[hrmjustin]

66. Sad but it is what it is.

[Andy823]

67. I wouldn't call the Bernie backers

I call them the "anti everything" group. I have been here since 2008 and never had a post hidden, until a few months back. I angered some of the followers of the anti everything main poster and was accused of "stalker" that poster. Some of the jury members even called me a "stalker". Next day same thing happened, probably by "my" stalker and they used the very seam language. I guess if you piss of that group, they try and get you banned.

I do blame Bernie, or his "real" backers, but sadly that same group has decided to use the "Bernie against Hillary" tactic to keep stirring things up and dividing the board more and more.

[Dustlawyer]

74. I support Bernie Sanders and have issues with Hillary. Having said that, I am never ugly about

political differences. This is a political forum where we should be able to debate the issues and the candidates without resort to crass statements, or for that matter, global statements about one group of supporters or another. I respect your opinions even though I may disagree with many.
As far as Hillary goes, I would vote for her vs. any Republican. I believe that the campaign money in our political system has ruined our Democracy and I would hope that they all would support an end to the madness, but sadly that is not reality. Representative Democracy is dead unless you count representing Donors as Representative Democracy.
I follow the Golden Rule and wish more here did too.
Good luck and may the best candidate win!

[okasha]

30. Some of the people posting here

are not Democrats, progressive or otherwise. The Republicans want a weak Democratic candidate and a divided Democratic Party because none of their potential nominees rates above piss-poor.

If you see something wonky, let MIRT know. We need these people gone.

[Hekate]

97. It's been a Hate Obama site for far too long, as well. nt

[Thespian2]

16. Should everyone

bow to the DLC and The Third Way and Wall Street and Goldman Sachs and Walmart????????

[hrmjustin]

18. No one here is bowing to anyone here.

We just don't like people who trash Hillary. This was posted in the HRC room.

[A Simple Game]

23. You don't like people that trash Hillary? Perhaps you should go back to

DU2 and check to see how many of the posters who bashed Hillary back then are now praising her in this group.

The Hillary bashing didn't just start and some of her best defenders used to be some of her worst critics. Take a look it may be interesting to you.

[hrmjustin]

24. You violated this safe haven to tell us that we have people here who didn't support

Hillary in 2008? Guess what, they don't hide that.

The past is the past and i don't appreciate you looking to cause issues in here.

As host i ask you to self delete this.

[A Simple Game]

33. If the people that used to bash Hillary don't hide it what harm did I do?

I never said anything bad about Hillary, nor any of the posters. You in fact are the one that mentioned not liking people that trash Hillary. Perhaps you protest too much and are a bit sensitive to my not liking hypocrites for good reason?

I see nothing wrong with my post, do whatever you wish.

[hrmjustin]

35. Are you a Hillary supporter?

[A Simple Game]

47. Did I bash Hillary, or did I point out that some among you may not be what they say they are

without mentioning any names? Why are you afraid of the truth you say it's out there anyway? You seem to take this personal, is there a reason you would like to share?

I will say that I supported Hillary in '08 and feel it was the right decision at the time.

As I said in the last post do whatever you wish, and stop wasting my time, unless you want to show me how I violated this safe haven.

[hrmjustin]

48. You responded to me.

[leftofcool]

82. How many times do you need to be told that this is the Hillary Clinton Group?

[hrmjustin]

83. Problem solved.

[workinclasszero]

28. No we should all stomp our feet and hold our breath till we turn blue

Because a strong, well known and well liked democratic candidate that leads all challengers on both the left and right only agrees with 90% or so of what Bernie and Senator Warren advocate!

Yeah, **** it all, lets help the right wing, the koch bros and fux news trash the shit out of Hillary so Bernie can lose in a massive landslide against the fascist team of Cruz/Walker!

Yeah **** it, we will just sit back on our fat 401k's, huge bank accounts and ivory tower high paying jobs and watch the ****** world burn!

Just the other day a Bernie fans claimed that filling the SCOTUS openings in the coming 8 years meant nothing! NOTHING!!

Bernie backers are politically naive to a ridiculous degree, helping republicans that would dearly love to see Bernie get the nomination.

Or they are rich and this is all just a amusing game to be played. If they lose and take down Hillary as well? Yawn they don't care, they got the $$$ to make it no matter what.

While saps like me and my family will lose social security, any and all health care, food assistance, on and on.

This election coming up is not a game to me, it is real as hell. As it is to millions of working class democrats out here who are determined to see Hillary Clinton in the White House again but this time in the oval office!

Shit the best job I ever had in my life...and ever will have in my life was under Bill Clinton's watch and I want those times back again!!

GO HILLARY!!!

[Thinkingabout]

61. Agreed, my life under Bill was pretty damn good, market was going great, biggest mistake was not

selling every stock I had in October 2000 and then buying back in when the market was low. I did not think my stocks was going to bottom out like they did under Bush.

[workinclasszero]

63. I worked at a steel mill when Bill was President

It was a union job with all the good benefits and high pay, they could not ever get enough workers.

It was like that all over the country. It was a different america and I miss it.

[yardwork]

79. Good post. Excellent.

[charlyvi]

32. You are an idiot. n/t

[onehandle]

44. 'DLC and The Third Way'

'Not-Hillary'-speak for 'Democrats.'

[upaloopa]

46. You make a bull shit statement then ask people

to defend against it. Just like right wingers do when they call a liberal talk radio show.

[KMOD]

95. This ^^^^ is such a BS post.

A right wing smear. That's all it is.

[stonecutter357]

17. K&R!

[hrmjustin]

19. Agreed.

[hrmjustin]

25. kick.

[charlyvi]

26. Hillary will be the next President.

I like Bernie, but Hillary will win. She should win. She is more of a policy wonk than anyone running; anyone who looks past the right wing spin on her knows this. We don't want to "crown her'; we welcome challengers. But we do know that she is smarter, more experienced and knowledgable than anyone else in this race.

[hrmjustin]

27. She is the best choice.

[charlyvi]

29. Yes she is. n/t

[leftofcool]

38. Love you Skinner!

[hrmjustin]

40. Agreed! i hope people understand the damage being done.

[Gman]

69. They don't care one iota.

That's the biggest problem.

[hrmjustin]

71. Your right aboutbthe green party dynamic here.

[KMOD]

94. Exactly.

and it's sad.

[AuntPatsy]

43. I was naive too. I thought it a safe haven from a very insane world at that time,

I will never forget the ugliness, hate, vile rhetorics spewed and I do mean spewed by those claiming to be Republicans, DU saved my sanity and I understand completely where Skinner is coming from..

[hrmjustin]

45. Unfortunately some feel the need to violate our safe haven.

I am going to do a reminder thread tonight.

[AuntPatsy]

59. Good idea, the Hate is reminiscent of people that are self avowed Fox viewers, like

the labeling or not, it's hard to see it any other way,

[hrmjustin]

64. Yes it is. i wonder if they actually read what they write about her.

But some of them are green party people.

[hrmjustin]

49. Btw they won't be responding in this room again.

[AuntPatsy]

60. I actually find that sad that Durs that I enjoy reading cannot conduct themselves

In a manner more fitting of how I view Liberals when discussing issues important to us all..

[hrmjustin]

65. Yes it is sad.

And i hate banning people but i am not going to let the bait us.

And that is what some of them are trying to do.

[AuntPatsy]

72. I just saw one of those just posted very recently, wow like we are the enemy, it's nuts

[hrmjustin]

73. Yes and one said i was wasting his/her time.

The poster responded to me. Lol.

[hrmjustin]

50. kicking.

[yallerdawg]

51. The irony is calling people fake Democrats...

while supporting a candidate who only "joined" the Democratic Party as his only way to win.

I guess we weren't good enough before, but who exactly is the DINO by definition?

[hrmjustin]

54. Lol it is ironic.

I am concerned that Sanders would not be good at party building.

[okasha]

84. Let's be honest for a moment.

What to you call a politician who has run as an Independent for decades on the minimal resources needed in Vermont, and who suddenly decides to run under a banner that will give him millions of dollars in resources and thousands of boots on the ground if he can secure their nomination?

How about "opportunist?"

[hrmjustin]

85. Heretic!

[okasha]

88. Yep.

The folks who think nothing but rose petals go down the drain when Bernie flushes are becoming just a wee bit tiresome.

[hrmjustin]

89. When you canonize a candidate you don't want to hear their faults.

This is what they did.

[okasha]

90. Some are well past that point.

They've deified the poor man.

And should he somehow win both the primary and the general with a Republican Congress, the same bunch will tear him to bloody shreds.

[hrmjustin]

91. They are setting themself up for a big disappointment.

[MADem]

52. At least he's almost as disgusted as I am. Gives me a bit of hope.

I'd love it if he had a better way of troll tracing.

[hrmjustin]

57. Yes and i hope to see here post more.

[brer cat]

53. It is heartbreaking, hrmjustin.

Not only are our President and Hillary trashed, the members of many groups are subject to downright ridicule. We have seen it with BOG and HOF and now the HCG. I feel like we are back in middle school and obviously not among the cool kids.

I hope it represents a small minority here who are frequent posters. We need to spend our energy and resources doing what it takes to make sure a democrat follows PBO. Petty infighting will not get us there.

[hrmjustin]

58. It is sad and i like some of those posters.

[Gman]

68. To be more specific

Through the late 1990's and into the 2000 election, RW forums like FR, the Michael Reagan forum and a few others dominated the political Internet. One of the best examples of the power of the RW forums at the time was during the Florida recount, CNN posted an online poll asking if Gore should concede. The response was overwhelmingly yes. Robert Novak and then the rest of the talking heads in the networks picked it up and reported it as Ameeica wants Gore to concede. All we could do is yell at the TV that it was a worthless online poll (even before People understood why).

DU was the first Democrat/liberal forum and I found it in March 2001. We felt like, as Democrats, we were alone and underground. Then 9/11 happened and it got worse. Kos sprang up it seems within a year or two, then others.

Almost from the beginning, the Greens who supported Nader found DU too. One of the earliest clashes of "Democrats" attacking Democrats was between the Nader supporters and Democrats. It still goes on today. Several of the most vocal Greens were tombstoned. I think it's fair to say the Greens were the most vocal and most aggressive. Many are still here. If you want to start a ruckus, post something (my favorite) saying the blood of the Afghanistan and Iraq wars is on Nader's hands. I truly believe it is, but I digress.

Many of you wil remember the vicious attacks on Hillary in 08 by the Obama supporters here. I didn't think it could happen but he won the general election and I supported him. But I kid you not, less than 48 hours after the election was called for Obama, he was viciously attacked here on DU for selecting Rahm Emmanuel as chief of staff. They turned on him over the ACA and single payer viciously. The attacks on Obama and anyone deemed not liberak enough continue today. They have attempted to define what s Democrat is according to their own set of standards. That's foolish considering that any political party really is nothing more than a coalition of diverse groups that came together to progress their own agenda. There are some common principles but those largely come about when support for one group's issue (ex. Gay marriage) is traded for support for another group's issue (Labor and minimum wage), etc.

Anyway, my thumbs getting tired from typing on this iPhone. Suffice to say Skinner was right. Maybe this place should have been called "Far left and if you don't like it you're a corporatist, meat eating Nazi troll Underground".

[hrmjustin]

70. I was hrhjustin in 2001.

I lost my password in 2005 and decided not to post. I only had 125 posts at the point anyway.

I came back in 2012 after reading it on and off. in nov of 2012 i found my old pasword But decided to keep this account.

I miss the early days.

[hrmjustin]

75. kicking.

[kevinmc]

76. that's the way I took it back when I joined ....

we had very few places to gather ...... fighting against Republicans is why I joined.

[hrmjustin]

77. me too!

[Iliyah]

78. And now look, Democrats trashing Democrats. One group trying to oust another group,

name calling, downright ugly and nasty posts against anyone who is not their candidate. Ugly and nasty post against the supporter that choses the other candidate over theirs. Its RW heaven.

[jtuck004]

80. "I had no clue so many Democrats hated Democrats." < I know what he means. I had no idea there were

so many pretend Democrats.

[hrmjustin]

81. And who is pretending to be a democrat?

[greatlaurel]

86. Thanks for posting this.

It appears several of the most virulent anti-HRC posters are not interested in a strong and well functioning Democratic Party. I have been reading DU almost since it started, but only started posting a few years ago. The attacks on President Obama and HRC often have a right wing smell to them. I do not know how to rid the site of posters who are not interested in getting Democratic Party candidates elected across the country.

In Ohio there have been very serious concerns about the integrity of our voting system since 2004. I traveled extensively in rural areas of Ohio during that election and the signs and talk in favor of John Kerry far out numbered anything for Bush, yet Ohio somehow went for Bush. There were some writers who asserted the Ohio election was stolen, but never gained any national attention. The 2010 election of John Kasich to the Ohio Governorship was suspicious, too, but that was ignored, as well.

The GOP is just trying to spew enough garbage so they can claim the Democratic Party is split, so they can get enough cover to steal the election in 2016. The Karl Rove melt down on Fox on election night 2012 about the Ohio election returns shows they had something planned which did not come to fruition. The Ohio GOP Secretary of State closed his office and went home early on election night. It was an extremely bizarre action during a presidential election vote count. He is still in office until 2018 and he will may have to try to redeem himself with some important people in the GOP.

[hrmjustin]

87. My pleasure.

I think we have a vocal green party group here.

[greatlaurel]

92. Are they green or some other color?

I do not want to sound really cranky, but posters on this site should not give aid or comfort to the GOP to help them derail another election. Ohio is especially problematic as almost all the local news media outlets, print, TV and radio, are owned and operated by right wing leaning businesses so the corruption that is robbing Ohioans blind gets very little attention and also makes it easy to ignore very serious election irregularities which occurred in 2004 and 2010.

Anyway, I do enjoy your posts. Keep up the great work!

[hrmjustin]

93. Thanks and you are right.

[Hekate]

98. I feel Skinner's pain. He confirms what I thought DU was supposed to be about in 2002....

It was a good place then, a safe haven in a scary era, and useful as well. Most of the time it is none of those things any more.

I think it is now well established that any Internet site that is not closely regulated gets taken over by RW trolls. I realize the idea of regulation just strikes a lot of people as wrong, but human groups seem to not be so good at self-regulating. We do pretty well as individuals and in small groups. I have no idea what the tipping point is, but big groups -- like society as a whole -- need rules to function, and those who cannot or will not abide by them need to be told to go away for the good of everybody else.

Anarchy has a very ugly downside. Right now we have some thugs roaming the corridors and sitting on juries. How anybody can say this is good for Democrats, or even democracy, is beyond me.

I have no idea what Skinner is going to do. It's still his site. But at this point, frankly, I would support a very big hammer coming down.

[hrmjustin]

104. I don't think he wants to ban because it will cause issues.

I noticed he stop posting as much as he was in April and early May.

[Hekate]

110. Sometimes issues need to be caused

Look at what you just said -- the founder of the site is being driven away. Something is very wrong with that picture.

[hrmjustin]

111. Yeah.

It certainly feels like he is being pushed away.

[lamp_shade]

99. Skinner even used the word "hated". To me that says it all.

[hrmjustin]

105. it is sad.

[Jamaal510]

100. It has been a

sad sight to see over the past few months on here. I understand having disagreements, but this has been bizarre. When you get right down to it, the two declared Dem candidates for 2016 aren't that far apart in their agendas. They might disagree on maybe a few issues or disagree on their approach, but that's it. They both have been vocal about economic and social injustices, and are both hated by the RW. I have no problems voting for Hillary or Bernie in the GE, and I see no reason for anyone who supports one of these candidates to slander and refuse to support the other in a GE. In real-life, I don't see most self-proclaimed liberals/Dems act like how certain posters on DU do. Most of the ones I come across know that there will never be a candidate who they'll agree with 100%, and are civil about it. Instead of engaging in negativity and being "anti-everything", these posters would do more of a service discussing solutions, or what work they plan to do offline to help the party move in a positive direction.

[hrmjustin]

106. Hopefully we unite next year.

[DCBob]

101. Exactly what I thought.

This site should now be renamed Democrat Undermine.

[hrmjustin]

107. Well said.

[Smarmie Doofus]

102. Was he speaking of how the "Obamatons" were regularly trashed here in 2008?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4896541

[Cha]

103. Ouch! that was funny . looking at it from now. lol mahalo SD

[onehandle]

108. Skinner needs to do something.

They are acting Exactly like our gun trolls. Belligerently bating and belittling. Twisting the truth and amplifying lies.

By they, I mean about half a dozen or so. But they are riling up others and encouraging them to be just as nasty. And it's working.

No way would Bernie approve of their divisive actions.

Not that it's actually Bernie people. Some of them still have Elizabeth Warren badges. Many would abandon Bernie for Elizabeth. It's the 'Not Hillary' hate squad, for the most part.

I question if some of the ringleaders are actually Democrats. They attack President Obama. They attack John Kerry. They've attacked Chelsea Clinton, FFS.

Ok, I think I could go one step further... I'm beginning to liken them to a 'liberal' tea party. I think the 'aggressive anti-Republican' orientation that Skinner spoke of has in a subset become a aggressive anti-Democratic orientation.

I've been around since day one, before day one. Members of Bartcop's moderators, including myself advised them on this place. I met DU's admins at a Bartcop event in Washington DC.

In all these years, I've never seen such hostile intolerance rise up so quickly. This isn't like Obama people vs Hillary people. This is far worse.

I think Skinner could modify the forum rules to reduce the bile out there. Or at least make an announcement and give some guidance.

[hrmjustin]

109. I think some of thr usual suspects are the green party wing of DU.

[ismnotwasm]

112. I have to say this

I was fairly neutral, except I don't believe Sanders is an electable candidate against a truly viable republican candidate and Hillary most certainly is. This lead me to lean toward her as well as her human rights record amoung other issues.

The nastiness toward her here got me thinking about the crap she's put up with through her entire career everywhere--some of it woo woo crap I see here to this day-- AND made me strenghthen my support for her, that woman has swum in the deeppest political waters and survived.

(For the record, I voted Socialist until that asshole George W. Bush came along, Bill Clinton never got my vote)


She's got what it takes to be the POTUS.

[hrmjustin]

113. Thank you.