Chavez promises to cause an economic crisis in Venezuela and Colombia

[Bacchus4.0]

http://voices.yahoo.com/venezuela-cuts-trade-ties-colombia-1268651.html



Chavez has promised that he will cause an economic crisis in both countries by suspending trade with the Colombians. Venezuela depends on Colombia for imports and their chief dependency is food. Venezuelan officials claim that they will be able to find an alternative source for food within a short amount of time, though they may suffer in the interim. The trade between Colombia and Venezuela amounts to billions of dollars and this is certainly something that will affect both the Colombians and the people of Venezuela.

not the first time Chavez did this:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aj0PsOF0AQfU&refer=latin_america


This is what Capriles and Uribe are being sued for in Colombia. Aww well, we'll let our little chavista comemierdas have some fun while the country falls into the abyss.

[warrprayer]

1. have an agenda much? n/t

[Bacchus4.0]

2. pointing out the stupidity of chavistas, yes n/t

s

[notadmblnd]

3. I thought he was dead?

on April 14, Nicolas Maduro was elected Venezuela's president

[COLGATE4]

5. Great catch. If you'll note the appropriate dates

this happened before Chavez passed on to that great revolution in the sky. We're now seeing the spin trying desperately to explain why an oil-exporting country like Venezuela now has to import corn meal and toilet paper.

[Bacchus4.0]

7. right now I think we have Colombia, Capriles, Uribe, Polar, and the US to blame for

the TP shortage. Its not gonna be easy to WIPE this problem away.

[Flatulo]

11. Slightly off topic, but I had an Indian friend (The India next to Pakistan, not Indigenous)

who once told me that in the poorer areas of the country, toilet paper was unheard of. Because of this, people used their hands plus a little water to clean themselves. Since almost everybody is right handed, and eats with the right hand, the left one gets the dirty job.

Because of this, it's considered very insulting to offer an Indian your left hand. It's like saying "I offer you my dirty hand."

[Bacchus4.0]

13. I've heard the same. Heard that is the method they used in the Phillipines too

at least in rural areas. After living in Central America for a few years, I caught myself disposing of dirty toilet paper in the waste basket rather than directly into the bowl on more than one occassion.

Never lived or visited a country where toilet paper was an issue. I visited Venezuela several times pre-toilet paper crisis. What makes that even worse is they have a soap shortage too.

[Flatulo]

22. Ew. Maybe we can send them all our old Sears catalogs.

[COLGATE4]

17. It's all part of the devilshly clever plan

of the US in hand with the plutocrats to embarass Maduro and his clown car. You see, there's really NO shortages in Vz - none at all. It's all capitalistic fear-mongering. Don't believe your lying eyes.

[MADem]

27. Oh dear....I have to say, I think the government has "touched bottom" with those sorts of

accusations!

Couldn't resist....

[COLGATE4]

4. Don't you know that this is all

CIA/oligarchical/plutocratic/running dog capitalist propaganda designed to weaken the people's bolivarian revolution and make fearless leader (d) look bad. But don't worry - we're on to their capitalist pig tricks. Viva Chavez. Viva Maduro. Viva toilet paper. Fire Bad. Colombia bad. Capriles bad bad. Uribe bad bad bad man.

[Bacchus4.0]

8. I wonder if they will add Chavez to the lawsuit too

I mean they are sueing a guy who is no longer president and the other guy who just barely lost the election, why not a dead guy too?

[Judi Lynn]

9. Hey, cool! Impressive credentials for the author of your posted article!

Nicholos Poma BS



Nick Poma holds a Bachelor of Science and Information Technology degree. He has served in the United States armed forces as a 31U, Tactical Communications Specialist, from 1983 to 1989 and then again from 2002 to 2005, where he recieved an honorable discharge. He also holds teaching credentials from the state of California. However, as of yet has not decided to hold a teaching position in the education system. Nick Poma writes on varying topics such as politics, business, technology, social issues, current events, and theology.

http://contributor.yahoo.com/user/110533/nicholos_poma_bs.html

[center] [/center]

[Bacchus4.0]

10. yeah, so? I admit he's not a bus driver, but do you have a problem with soldiers?

Chavez is the one who fucked up Venezuela's economy. Not Capriles, Uribe, Obama, or Nicholos Poma.

[MADem]

29. The bus driver is having trouble with the military, because he doesn't have the chops that his

predecessor, el tenente coronel, had with the Army. He can't wear the uniform like Hugo did...

If he can't rally the troops, maybe someone, you know, maybe a former military associate of Hugo's, sort of like a "god given" replacement, from the Army, with Hugo-like credentials, will come to the fore..."for the good of the nation," of course...

I often wonder if Diosdado Cabello "stooped to conquer."

Time will tell!

[idwiyo]

46. You really don't like working class people, do you? Otherwise why would you keep pointing

that someone was a "bus driver"... Is that something to be ashamed of? Or do you know something about bus drivers as a specific group of people who are for some reason not smart enough to be anything else? What is it, exactly?

[Flatulo]

47. Nothing against the working class, but I think as we found out with GWB, being a 'nice guy'

isn't enough for a head of state. You have to be very, very smart. Or at least very smart. That's why we elected Obama here. He may be a disappointment to many on the left, and the right wants his head on a stake, but I think on balance he's done a decent job given the congress he's had to work with.

Now I can't speak to Maduro's intellect, but he seems kind of GWB~ish to me. Loyal to the cause, but not much original thought. I've seen some posters here positively gushing over the look on his face as he kisses a baby or shakes hands with the poor, but to me those credentials don't get very far.

[idwiyo]

49. My comment has very little to do with Maduro himself. It has a lot to do with disdain and outright

dismissal some posters so openly display towards working class people.

See, I don't believe for a second that a university degree actually mean that much. Neither do I believe that a bus driver or a cleaning person somehow are less smart or able than a director of the company. In majority of the cases one's position in life has very little to do with one's abilities and a hell of a lot to do with which family one was born into.

As to Maduro, I don't know enough about him yet to even begin to judge the level of his intellect. He is definitely not on the same level with Chavez, of that I am sure.

Don't give a flying fuck about kissing babies, shaking hands or any such nonsense. I could never understand people who swoon over celebrities, and even less when they gush over politicians. WTF?
Their job is to run the country, if the guy is competent its all that matters to me.

[Flatulo]

50. Agreed on all points. Some of the smartest people I knew worked their way up, and some

of the biggest clowns were university grads, usually > bachelors level. A brilliant person who is also formally educated is a rare find.

[idwiyo]

52. I think I am going to go check if hell froze over! This would be first time we actually agreed on

something!

[polly7]

12. Impressive.

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[catnhatnh]

14. I want you to know I alerted on this post and your prior one that got deleted.

You are welcome to have your opinion. You are welcome to post even thoughy I think some of your sources are cesspits. I will no longer tolerate abuse of the opinions of others. I don't care much what YOU eat but will continue to protest your behavior when it crosses the line.

[naaman fletcher]

15. Will you do that

When Chavistas post attacks as well?

[catnhatnh]

16. I won't play false equivalency with you.

Neither did I post to you though you also refer to other posters and seem to support referring to them in denigrating manners. I alerted on an abuser and will continue to do so.

[naaman fletcher]

23. In other words,

no

[catnhatnh]

24. My jury decided-

when you object, you alert.

[polly7]

18. Hey! I've been doing that too.

Because I'm sick and *'ing tired of personal, ugly attacks towards people who post here in good faith articles and information many of us are very grateful for.

[catnhatnh]

20. Actually I was the second alert on the prior post...

so you must have been the first. And thanks for that. Comrade. Bwa-Ha-Ha...

[polly7]

21. Nope, I missed out on that one ...

somebody else must be getting a little ticked off at these dumb attacks too. There's an army of us lol.

[joshcryer]

25. Nice bullying tactic.

The hidden post here was completely innocuous and was intended for an informed viewing audience who can follow what's going on in Latin America.

[catnhatnh]

26. Bullying my ass

the poster routinely refers to other posters as "Chavistas" even though the man is dead and occassionally adds "Chavista shit-eaters".I merely let a jury decide who the bully was.

[joshcryer]

28. There is nothing in post #6 worth hiding.

He may have said that in a different post and it may or may not have been hidden but it's clear at least to me you alerted on a bunch of posts and finally got a jury to go with whatever you said. He was referring to another thread because people were accusing someone of doing something that Chavez actually did. The hypocrisy is hilarious.

[catnhatnh]

30. Yeah, except simply checking says no.

My transparency page is blocked for less than five hidden posts in 90 days. Actually-though you may not believe it, I have no hidden posts in the last 90 days. The poster you are defending has eight in the last 90 days including THREE TODAY. Why don't you check what was said BY WHOM before you accuse me of anything? Today he lost 4-2 5-1 and 5-1. I alerted on two but was only the first alert on one.

[joshcryer]

32. I just checked post #6 again.

And that post is not hide-worthy in any way whatsoever. I've noticed two posters here suddenly getting their posts hidden when before they were left alone. In fact another poster got a post hidden for stating a fact about a poster here that I think would be instructive if we are to digest information posted. Yet I get called a fascist right winger (which is objectively false) on a regular basis here and none of those posts are hidden. There is an agenda on this subforum by some posters to lie and deceive, and I think that hidden post, post #6, is proof of that, as that post is simply not hide worthy.

[catnhatnh]

35. Josh, your stuff and my stuff does not get hidden.

His stuff did 3 times today after being alerted on by multiple people. Whether you believe it or not I never alerted on B. before. If you suspect 2 posters I guess I make three. Juries make 18 others who thought he violated standards 14-4. I don't know who else got hidden and cant comment but I won't stand for people going past expressing an opinion and attacking posters with opposing views. This is after all, a discussion board.

[joshcryer]

36. It came to light in another thread.

Apparently we have a hypocrite in our midst who has insulted critics of chavismo. If someone comes here with an agenda it's important to let others know. No personal information is posted, simply information that is all publicly available and written by the poster. I see what Bacchus4.0 wrote in his transparency page and while it's definitely up there his posts today I do not have a problem with. I've seen far worse get allowed.

[naaman fletcher]

37. The fact is

That almost no comments were ever hidden on this forum for years.

Now, suddenly, they are.

My guess is that as Venezuela falls apart at the seams certain people are getting desperate.

I had one hidden for basically pointing out things that someone revealed about herself under the theory that I was posting personal information.


The reality is that a few people are getting desperate.

[catnhatnh]

38. Yes, I'm getting desperate.

A white boy from Connecticut, living in New Hampshire, with a single year of high school Spanish and 36 hours spent in Juarez Mexico. Of course, I couldn't be someone on a Democratic board with a leftist bent, who objects to a single poster who abuses other posters and calls them names. Congratulations-I'm done for the night-my conspiracy is ruined-you geniuses win. Because "suddenly" people got tired of bullshit.

[naaman fletcher]

39. Yes it is sudden

Of course, you have never even posted her before so how would you know?

It's not a single poster. It's been both sides for years. Suddenly one side has gotten desperate.

That's fine.

I've learned the new rules.

Your friends will learn them as well.

[railsback]

40. Interesting how oligarch love

strangely resembles a certain southern psychosis.

[MADem]

42. I have to agree with you. nt

[MADem]

31. You do understand that "Chavista" refrers to people who endorse the party of Hugo Chavez?

If you think that word is an insult--rather than a description--then there's something wrong with your POV. It's a political affiliation.

Here, some links for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chavismo


http://chavista.net/

[catnhatnh]

33. To me , yes...I do understand

But I think once you use the term (and the poster used it more than once) "Chavista comemierdas" (Chavista shit-eaters) than the posters use of the term is meant to be denigrating. If someone repeatedly called you a "democratic shit eater" and then referred to you only as a "democrat" would you not still know they hated you and thought the term democrat to be an insult?

[MADem]

41. There's plenty to criticize when it comes to the Boligarchs as well as the opposition--there's

plenty of corruption, graft, greed and pure incompetence happening in Venezuela--and it's not all on "the other guys" either. No one has clean hands. People who play the "I am the way and the light" card when it comes to their team are the ones who need a reality check.

I have to say that the pro-Chavista segment on this board is similarly unrestrained when getting "personal" with people with whom they do not agree. I have been called some pretty ugly names, here, for simply stating my POV. I have been accused, wrongly, of nefarious associations and "wanting" bad things to happen to the people of Venezuela. Very childish shit, frankly--not "the best of DU" by any stretch.

I do not respond in kind, but neither do I hit the alert button every time someone flings an insult at me--it's really better to just point these sorts of things out and move forward, if you want to continue the discussion--if you want to shut someone up, though, the alert function does have a use in that regard.

No one "wins" when a discussion is truncated.

This is Democratic Underground, and it is a site for Democrats and Progressives. If someone called Democrats "shit eaters" they'd be in violation of the TOS. But calling members of foreign political parties the same name does NOT attach--Chavistas are NOT Democrats, not even close. They are a political entity unto themselves, not atypical for their region, with a strong association with the VZ Army, and an unusually close relationship with the legislative and judicial branches in VZ. There isn't an independent judiciary as we know it, and having much of the Democratic Party leadership coming out of the US Army would just not happen in our society.

DU doesn't "owe" anything to the supporters of Chavez's party. We're not, as a unit, "on their side." Democrats can and do have differing views about what's happening in VZ--some are informed by ideology, others by friends and relatives. But DU is not lockstep on this matter, never has been, and likely never will be.

[catnhatnh]

43. Bin-Fucking-Go

"If someone called Democrats "shit-eaters" they'd be in violation of the TOS". I AM a Democrat AND a Chavista. You have shown what you think of me but unfortunately for your prejudices I remain a poster here. You imply I could neither be a democrat nor a progressive. Perhaps you should google the terms. I will not call you any names though the poster you defend DID and got his post hidden. Tough Fucking Biscuits.

[MADem]

44. You want to be offended--you are eagerly seeking to be outraged. It is impossible

to have an honest conversation about differences of opinion with regard to the unfortunate trajectory which VZ finds itself on.

I haven't "shown what you think of me" so take that nonsense and stow it. You are showing me that you are uninterested in debate. Fine. I don't think it would be a productive exercise if you have an itchy alert finger, anyway.

You apparently aren't interested in conversing, you want to shut people up who don't see things the way you do, and you'll use the "excuse" of imagined insult to avoid substantive conversation.

I am not "defending" anyone, I am simply telling you that a generic remark about Chavistas (and the poster did not call YOU a shit eater--I read the post, it was a general comment) does not translate to Democrats, nor does it translate to you, specifically. You chose to assume the insult--and that's on YOU.

Now, since you've had your moment of outrage and affront, I'll bid you good evening. There's just no point in continuing this foolishness.

[joshcryer]

34. I'd love to see that jury.

I bet the alerter said something demonstrably false and because this is the Latin American group some people may not be informed and believe what the alerter said.

I haven't seen anything by the OP hide worthy today. Some iffy stuff but generally nothing worse than what is levied at critics on a daily basis here.

[MADem]

45. So would I--that was a very bad hide. nt

[naaman fletcher]

51. Yes they have started lying

I had a post removed under the pretense of having posted "personal information", when I simply mentioned which country she lived in based on what she herself posted here.

[railsback]

19. Wow. You're seriously confused and toe lickin' smitten with oligarchs.

You seem to be equating an illegal incursion into a neighboring country, condemned by Latin American countries AND the OAS, with Uribe and Capriles conspiring to disrupt exports to sway an election. Good God. Do you also worship Issa?

[Judi Lynn]

48. It just doesn't hold up, does it?The incursion involved bombing the bejesus

out of Ecuadean land, and murdering lots of people, including some Mexican students visiting the group there trying to work out a peaceful exchange of prisoners.

The other Latin American countries were deeply enraged, and there's every good reason for them to be that way. Venezuela's was only one of the leaders absolutely furious over this filthy act, and violation of Ecuador's sovereignty.

The event DU'ers remember which triggered reactions from Latin American countries:

2008-03-10

Latin America condemns Colombia for invasion to Ecuador
Helga Serrano Narváez

Clasificado en: Política: Politica, Militar, | Internacional: Internacional, |
Disponible en: English
Compartir:

Montecristi - Ecuador

Ecuador was bombed by the Colombian Army on March 1, 2008. As a result of the attack, 22 people were killed in what many have called a premeditated massacre of FARC guerrilla movement members, including number 2 leader, Raúl Reyes. Colombian President Alvaro Uribe's action was rejected by the Grupo de Río, formed by the Latin American and Caribbean countries, in the Heads of State Summit held in Dominican Republic on March 7.

This is the worst attack on Ecuador's territory since the 44 year old confrontation among the FARC, the Colombian Army, the paramilitary and other armed actors in neighboring Colombia. During the last year, there have been at least 5 incursions, causing victims on the Ecuadorean side. The Colombian government, keen on pushing the Bush directed “War Against Terror”, has continuously violated Ecuador's sovereignty not only through armed attacks, but also by carrying out aerial aspersions that have affected health, life and crops in Ecuador.

The Colombian Army attacked a FARC base set up in Ecuador, without its consent. Reportedly, FARC members were sleeping when the bomb attack from helicopters and airplanes took place. Colombian soldiers who landed in helicopters in the jungle area, shot those who were wounded and took two dead bodies, including Raúl Reyes, as a trophy for President Uribe. Three wounded young women were left behind, along with the rest of the dead bodies. They are currently recovering in a hospital in Quito, under strict protection.

Ecuador's popular President Rafael Correa denounced the violation of the country's sovereingy, demanded an immediate investigation, withdrew his Ambassador from Colombia and ousted the Colombian Ambassador from Ecuador. He began visits to many Latin American countries to inform the Presidents of the situation, obtaining solidarity for the Ecuadorean position that its sovereingty had been violated and nothing, absolutely nothing, justified such action. In order to manipulate and try to avoid condemnation, President Uribe justified the bombing as its right to fight against terrorism wherever it comes from, similar to the US and Israel claim by which they attack any country. To manipulate and justify this, Uribe claimed that in the computers found after the attack, there was documentation that linked Ecuador's Internal and External Security Minister Gustavo Larrea to the FARC movement. Explanations in Ecuador informed that a meeting had been held in order to seek the release of hostages held by the FARC, including Ingrid Betancourt, the Colombian-French former Presidential Candidate. Although Ecuador's governement has clearly expressed that there are no ties with the FARC, the political opposition will surely use such questionnable material to try to attack President Correa.

More:
http://alainet.org/active/22712&lang=es