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Bacchus4.0

(6,837 posts)
Thu Nov 7, 2013, 04:34 PM Nov 2013

Maduro says he will place anti-aircraft weapons in the barrios

http://www.eluniversal.com/nacional-y-politica/131107/maduro-aseguro-que-colocara-sistemas-de-armas-antiaereas-en-los-barrio

El presidente de la República, Nicolás Maduro, aseguró que toda la defensa antiaérea "se va a colocar en los puntos clave de las montañas del país, incluyendo los barrios de la Gran Caracas y de todo el país".

El objetivo, según dijo el Presidente, es "garantizar que jamás en la vida una aviación militar enemiga, extranjera, imperialista entre a la ciudad. Para garantizar la vida en paz", dijo.



Maduro assured that he would place ant-aircraft defense systems "They will be placed in key points in mountains of the country, including the barrios of Greater Caracas and the whole country".

The objective according to Maduro is "guarantee that never in life will an enemy aircraft, foreign, imperialist enter the city. To guarantee life in peace.", he said.

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Maduro says he will place anti-aircraft weapons in the barrios (Original Post) Bacchus4.0 Nov 2013 OP
Well thank God for that. Can you imagine if the COLGATE4 Nov 2013 #1
yes, because we know the invading force isn't going to attack military targets, oil refineries, Bacchus4.0 Nov 2013 #4
This must be political. HooptieWagon Nov 2013 #2
I am guessing the "logic" is in the event of an internal conflict Bacchus4.0 Nov 2013 #3
Que hombre tan bruto! mecherosegarden Nov 2013 #5
Of course!!! Because the one thing that Venezuelans need most right now are MORE WEAPONS! Marksman_91 Nov 2013 #6
Maybe it's to discourage groups like "Hermanos al Rescate" from S. Florida Judi Lynn Nov 2013 #7
Man... What kind of fantasy world do you live in? n/t Marksman_91 Nov 2013 #8
It has been discussed here for many years. Judi Lynn Nov 2013 #9
I'm not questioning whether the Brothers to the Rescue are real or not or if they'd like to invade Marksman_91 Nov 2013 #10
You don't seem to be too aware of any U.S. history. Judi Lynn Nov 2013 #11
wow, you went back in ancient DU history to find another really dumb post Bacchus4.0 Nov 2013 #13
A violated country is exactly the authority on crossing into its airspace. n/t Judi Lynn Nov 2013 #14
Nope, just a idiotic statement. If the US military wanted to enter Ven airspace Bacchus4.0 Nov 2013 #15
Well I can imagine Socialistlemur Nov 2013 #17
umm...no. n/t Bacchus4.0 Nov 2013 #12
That sure sounds zany Socialistlemur Nov 2013 #16
yeah, unless you are using human shields (hint ,hint), you wouldn't want weaponry Bacchus4.0 Nov 2013 #18

COLGATE4

(14,732 posts)
1. Well thank God for that. Can you imagine if the
Thu Nov 7, 2013, 04:59 PM
Nov 2013

Bolivian AirForce were able to surreptitously fly in low over Caracas unchallenged? The very thought chills my soul. Maybe Fearless Leader Jr. can order up some surplus Barrage Blimps from the Brits - they've probably got some laying around from the Battle of Britain.

Bacchus4.0

(6,837 posts)
4. yes, because we know the invading force isn't going to attack military targets, oil refineries,
Thu Nov 7, 2013, 05:22 PM
Nov 2013

ports, and air facilities but they will go straight for the chavista heart and massacre the people in the barrios.

 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
2. This must be political.
Thu Nov 7, 2013, 05:08 PM
Nov 2013

I can't imagine the barrios being a military target, except by their own government in the event of a rebellion.

Bacchus4.0

(6,837 posts)
3. I am guessing the "logic" is in the event of an internal conflict
Thu Nov 7, 2013, 05:20 PM
Nov 2013

weapons would already be located in strong hold chavista areas to repel the insurrectionists.

mecherosegarden

(745 posts)
5. Que hombre tan bruto!
Thu Nov 7, 2013, 06:50 PM
Nov 2013

"La vida en paz." Why doesn't he do something about the crime, inflation, lack of food, bad services, etc.etc? And please, spare me of the "how do you know?" My family live there . Some of my friends have been kinnapped; some of my friends have been killed. Some of my friends are living like prisoners in their own apartments for fear of their own lives. Oh yes.... but they do have Patria!

 

Marksman_91

(2,035 posts)
6. Of course!!! Because the one thing that Venezuelans need most right now are MORE WEAPONS!
Thu Nov 7, 2013, 07:44 PM
Nov 2013

Not more food, not more national production of ANY product, not more education, not better infrastructure, not a better handling of inflation, but definitely more weapons to keep those big bad imperialist gringos from bombarding the poorest parts of the country that have no military or strategic significance whatsoever. Yes, I'm sure Venezuelans' problems will be solved with these new anti-aircraft weapons.

Judi Lynn

(160,525 posts)
7. Maybe it's to discourage groups like "Hermanos al Rescate" from S. Florida
Thu Nov 7, 2013, 07:55 PM
Nov 2013

from conducting terroristic exercises flying in over the country to scare the bejesus out of the people enough that they might want to start going wild, running around in the streets, and trying to overthrow the government.

U.S. Interests Section head, Wayne S. Smith himself has stood in the street in Havana and witnessed the airplanes flown by these shrieking assholes flying in low enough over the streets people could recognize the markings on their converted US warplanes.

That's why the Cuban government ended up taking shots at these pieces of filth when they were hard at it again, and they lost a few for their efforts.

Of course the US stoutly maintained Cuba was the one out of line, as if, and withdrew a certain amount of softening toward Cuba which had been underway up to the point the Brothers sabotaged it.

Jose Basulto, the Cuban "exile" clearly sacrificed some of his stupid herd for the opportunity of destroying what little progress had been made. It is known the family of one of the deceased immediately saw Basulto as having intentionally engineered, manipulated this event, and has refused to speak to him since the date he got their sweetie shot for terrorizing Cuba.

Judi Lynn

(160,525 posts)
9. It has been discussed here for many years.
Thu Nov 7, 2013, 10:29 PM
Nov 2013

Even years before it was mentioned on this thread:

magbana Mon May-19-08 05:39 PM

Wonder if the Brothers to the Rescue are giving the US Military . . .


advice about how to invade the airspace -of Venezuela - they did it so well to Cuba. Yet, the shootdown helped the BTR learn that it was a very silly and dangerous thing to do.

This is a huge provocation.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=405x4417#4420

[center] ~ ~ ~ [/center]
On edit, adding info. from earlier D.U. posts:

May 15, 1991: Jose Basulto, an ex-Bay of Pigs mercenary, well-known terrorist and CIA agent, establishes the so-called Brothers to the Rescue. He asks President George H. Bush for three U.S. Air Force type 0-2 planes, the military version of the Cessna which had been used in the war against the Salvadoran people.

Congresswoman Ileana Ross heavily lobbies until the three planes are obtained. A photo of the planes received by this counter-revolutionary group appears in the press for the first time in a July 19,1991 article by the publisher of the Miami Herald, who also actually flies with Brothers to the Rescue. The letters USAF (United States Air Force) are clearly visible on the planes.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1576905


 

Marksman_91

(2,035 posts)
10. I'm not questioning whether the Brothers to the Rescue are real or not or if they'd like to invade
Thu Nov 7, 2013, 11:03 PM
Nov 2013

What I'm questioning is how the hell do you think such an invasion would make sense in today's world, where everybody has a phone with a camera, or think it would be even a considerable plot by those overzealous idiots to carry out.

Besides, considering how the US is getting the oil it needs from Venezuela (which is really not a lot now), the last thing the US government would want is getting involved militarily against another government that provides said oil (which requires almost too much work to process than its worth to begin with), especially one that is so close to its borders. Selling oil to the US is pretty much the only thing that is (barely) keeping the Venezuelan economy afloat, and yet you hear so many slurs from Maduro and co. condemning the Gringos whenever they can, claiming that they're responsible for all of Venezuela's problems, even though the Chavista government is almost solely dependent on the US buying Venezuelan oil and has been in power for 15 years now, with record oil prices even, and yet the economy is starting to collapse. And the only ones responsible for that are the government which has been running the show for more than a decade, especially when you consider how they've expropriated so many private-sector enterprises and run most of the production in the country. They've pretty much dug their own graves, and now it's only a matter of time before the Venezuelan people can't fucking take the current state of affairs anymore and overthrow the fascists in power.

Judi Lynn

(160,525 posts)
11. You don't seem to be too aware of any U.S. history.
Fri Nov 8, 2013, 12:50 AM
Nov 2013

There are ENDLESS reasons why the US might invade a country, even tiny Panama, or wildly tiny Grenada. Most sane people wouldn't expect that to happen in a million years, but SURPRISE!

You might find the Panama invasion interesting. A superficial view from Wikipendia:


The United States Invasion of Panama, code-named Operation Just Cause, was the invasion of Panama by the United States in December 1989. It occurred during the administration of U.S. President George H. W. Bush, and ten years after the Torrijos–Carter Treaties were ratified to transfer control of the Panama Canal from the United States to Panama by 1 January 2000.

During the invasion, de facto Panamanian leader, general, and dictator Manuel Noriega was deposed, president-elect Guillermo Endara sworn into office, and the Panamanian Defense Force dissolved.

Background[edit]

The United States long maintained numerous military bases and a substantial garrison throughout the Canal Zone to protect the American-owned Panama Canal and to maintain American control of this strategically important area. On 7 September 1977, President of the United States Jimmy Carter and the de facto leader of Panama, General Omar Torrijos, signed Torrijos–Carter Treaties, which set in motion the process of handing over the Panama Canal to Panamanian control by the year 2000. Although the canal was destined for Panamanian administration, the military bases remained and one condition of the transfer was that the canal would remain open for American shipping.

Meanwhile, the U.S. had long-standing relations with General Noriega. Noriega served as a U.S. intelligence asset and paid informant of the Central Intelligence Agency from 1967, including the period when Bush was head of the CIA (1976–77).[6]

Noriega had sided with the U.S. rather than the USSR in Central America, notably in sabotaging the forces of the Sandinista government in Nicaragua, and the revolutionaries of the FMLN group in El Salvador. Noriega received upwards of $100,000 per year from the 1960s until the 1980s, when his salary was increased to $200,000 per year.[7] Although he worked with the Drug Enforcement Administration to restrict illegal drug shipments, he was known to simultaneously accept significant financial support from drug dealers,[6] because he facilitated the laundering of drug money, and through Noriega they received protection from DEA investigations due to his special relationship with the CIA.[8]

Beginning in the middle of the 1980s, relations between Noriega and the United States began to deteriorate. In 1986, U.S. President Ronald Reagan opened negotiations with General Noriega, requesting that the Panamanian leader step down after he was publicly exposed in the New York Times by Seymour Hersh, and later exposed in the Iran-Contra Scandal.[9] Reagan pressured him with several drug-related indictments in U.S. courts; however, since extradition laws between Panama and the U.S. were weak, Noriega deemed this threat not credible and did not submit to Reagan's demands.[10] In 1988, Elliot Abrams and others in the Pentagon began pushing for a U.S. invasion, but Reagan refused, due to Bush's ties to Noriega through his previous positions in the CIA and the Task Force on Drugs, and their potentially negative impact on Bush's presidential campaign.[11] Later negotiations involved dropping the drug-trafficking indictments. In March 1988, an attempted coup against the government of Panama was resisted by Noriega's forces. As relations continued to deteriorate, Noriega appeared to shift his Cold War allegiance towards the Soviet bloc, soliciting and receiving military aid from Cuba, Nicaragua, and Libya.[12] American military planners began preparing contingency plans for action against Panama.

More:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_invasion_of_Panama

Good old "Operation Just Cause," or, more realistically, "Operation Just Because (we can)."

[center]~ ~ ~[/center]
The US Invasion of Grenada:
By Stephen Zunes*
Foreign Policy In Focus
October 2003

It has been exactly twenty years since the U.S. forces invaded Grenada, ending that Caribbean island nation's four-year socialist experiment. An island nation no bigger than Martha's Vineyard, with a population that could barely fill the Rose Bowl, was defeated with relatively few American casualties. President Ronald Reagan's decision to occupy the country and replace the government with one more to his liking proved to be quite popular in the United States, with polls indicating that 63% of the public supported the invasion.

On this anniversary, it would be worth looking back at the Grenadan revolution, the U.S. invasion and its aftermath, and the important precedent it set for "regime change" through U.S. military intervention.

Grenada's Revolution

One of the tiny island nations that grew out of the British colonies in the eastern Caribbean, Grenada--like its neighbors--was populated by descendents of black African slaves. The original inhabitants, the Carib Indians, were wiped out during the early stages of colonialism. Receiving independence in 1974, the island was ruled initially by the despotic and eccentric Prime Minister Sir Eric Gairy, whose murderous secret police--known as the Mongoose Squad--and his passion for flying saucers, the occult, and extra-terrestrial communication had brought him notoriety throughout the hemisphere.

On March 13, 1979, in an almost bloodless coup, a young attorney named Maurice Bishop seized power with the backing of the New Jewel Movement. They proceeded to impose an ambitious socialist program on the island inspired at least as much by Bob Marley as Karl Marx. In the next four years, while most Caribbean nations suffered terribly from worldwide recession, Grenada achieved a 9% cumulative growth rate. Unemployment dropped from 49% to 14%. The government diversified agriculture, developed cooperatives, and created an agri-industrial base that led to a reduction of the percentage of food and total imports from over 40% to 28% at a time when market prices for agricultural products were collapsing worldwide.

The literary rate, already at a respectable 85%, grew to about 98%, comparable to or higher than most industrialized countries. A free health care and secondary education system were established, the number of secondary schools tripled, and scores of Grenadans received scholarships for studies abroad. There were ambitious programs in the development of the fishing industry, handicrafts, housing, tourism, the expansion of roads and transport systems, and the upgrading of public utilities.

More:
http://www.globalpolicy.org/component/content/article/155/25966.html

[center]~ ~ ~[/center]
Ordinarily, it wouldn't seem possible a huge country would stoop this low, but as you can see, there's nothing to it. No other country is large enough to keep the U.S. from doing anything it wants, for whatever reason, and you should have learned POLITICS of the left kind can and will get people tortured, torn apart, or simply slaughtered with the greatest possible indifference.

Democrats find that offensive.

All that's needed is to dare to displease the industrial military complex in this country and its courtesans in Washington, D.C. Even the U.S. President, who had been the Supreme Commander of the Allied Forces in World War II, Dwight D. Eisenhower warned the world on the way out the door, in his final speech, that the military industrial complex MUST not be allowed to take over or there would be hell to pay.

Military-Industrial Complex Speech, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961
http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/indust.html

Bacchus4.0

(6,837 posts)
13. wow, you went back in ancient DU history to find another really dumb post
Fri Nov 8, 2013, 09:58 AM
Nov 2013

that the US military needs advice on how to cross into airspace. Its just another really idiotic idea brought to you by chavismo.

Bacchus4.0

(6,837 posts)
15. Nope, just a idiotic statement. If the US military wanted to enter Ven airspace
Fri Nov 8, 2013, 04:47 PM
Nov 2013

I don't even need to finish.

Socialistlemur

(770 posts)
17. Well I can imagine
Fri Nov 8, 2013, 06:08 PM
Nov 2013

The first thing they would do is tomahawk the hell out of all the Venezuelan air bases, command and control and radar stations. That would be the first wave. I don't think a second wave would be necessary. The USA has a fairly mechanical and ruthless approach to these matters, right after that first wave they would send predators to try to hunt down Maduro. I wouldn't want to be close to Fuerte Tiuna or the Cuban embassy, which I'm sure they'll bomb "by mistake".

Socialistlemur

(770 posts)
16. That sure sounds zany
Fri Nov 8, 2013, 06:02 PM
Nov 2013

So you think they should have anti aircraft guns firing rounds at small planes dropping leaflets? That sure sounds extremely crazy. Do you realize those rounds go up and then come down? That whole comment sure sounds absolutely crazy. What exactly do you think you can accomplish with so much violence?

Bacchus4.0

(6,837 posts)
18. yeah, unless you are using human shields (hint ,hint), you wouldn't want weaponry
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 11:50 AM
Nov 2013

in highly populated areas

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