More men are raped in the US than women, figures on prison assaults reveal...

[Upton]

In January, prodded in part by outrage over a series of articles in the New York Review of Books, the Justice Department finally released an estimate of the prevalence of sexual abuse in penitentiaries. The reliance on filed complaints appeared to understate the problem. For 2008, for example, the government had previously tallied 935 confirmed instances of sexual abuse.After asking around, and performing some calculations, the Justice Department came up with a new number: 216,000. That’s 216,000 victims, not instances. These victims are often assaulted multiple times over the course of the year. The Justice Department now seems to be saying that prison rape accounted for the majority of all rapes committed in the US in 2008, likely making the United States the first country in the history of the world to count more rapes for men than for women.

http://nplusonemag.com/raise-the-crime-rate

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2449454/More-men-raped-US-women-including-prison-sexual-abuse.html

I knew rape of incarcerated males was widespread, but I had no idea..

[marble falls]

1. Maybe rape will be much less funnier now to some of us.

[Bonobo]

3. I guess the OP went so far over your head that it wasn't even visible. nt

[Warren DeMontague]

4. Who EVER said it was funny?

Did I miss something?

[Bonobo]

5. Yes.

You missed the extent to which people can do ANYTHING to prevent themselves from having to deal with the real issue being discussed because it would involve an actual reassessment of things they thought they understood already.

[Warren DeMontague]

6. Gotcha.

I just assumed it was another one of those lame-ass attempts to suggest that people in this group are saying something they aren't and never have because it's TEH MENS GROOP THATS WHY BECUZ BECUZ

[Major Nikon]

11. I've certainly seen it on DU

So perhaps the poster was speaking to DU in general and not this group, or perhaps even society in general that thinks it's funny when a man gets raped, especially if it happens in prison.

[Warren DeMontague]

12. Yeah, but less so lately.The community has, by and large, figured out that it's not okay.

A good development.

[radicalliberal]

2. Count on the conservatives to condone prison rape.

Our society is lowered to the extent prison rape is tolerated.

[Upton]

7. I don't believe it's just conservatives..

otherwise this would have been highlighted and addressed as a serious problem years ago but that's not been the case. There seems to be an overall attitude out there that males in prison somehow deserve whatever they get, including being raped by other prisoners and staff alike..

[Bonobo]

8. And not just prison.

All across the board, you see examples of how the death of men is just not considered as important as the death of a woman. War is an example, low life expectancy is an example, prostate cancer, testicular cancer, murder cases, violence, etc.

[Upton]

9. All true..

but point that out in certain circles, and it's as if you committed some kind of sacrilege..

[Bonobo]

10. Some seem to think pointing that out is the SAME as denying that there is sexism

against women as well.

But the two are not inconsistent in the least.

[CreekDog]

13. For a crime that is mostly committed by men, this makes perfect sense, actually

for two reasons:

one, prisons are usually segregated by sex. more men rape, a population of men is more likely to have more rapes than a population of women.

second, rape is a crime about power, not sexual attraction. which is why in a population of men, rape is still more common even though statistics show that most men are heterosexual.

Upton, you thought you were making a bigger point, but you reinforced the points you thought you were arguing against.

[lumberjack_jeff]

14. Then lets talk about the victims.

You seem to concede that most victims of rape are men.

[CreekDog]

15. No, are you saying in society as a whole they are most victims?

I'm not understanding the point you're making.

Are you only interested in subjects where a male is the subject of rape?

Perhaps you can show us a post where you've decried the rape of a female?

[Behind the Aegis]

16. Are you saying male rape victims don't deserve to be called victims?

I am not understanding what your posts are trying to convey. To me, it appears you are actually mocking male victims of rape, and as one, I find that extremely offensive. Have you ever spoken out against male rape?

[CreekDog]

17. Absolutely not. Male victims of rape are victims

I don't joke about what happens to men in prison. It absolutely needs to be stopped and not seen as part of the punishment.

The same for women inmates.

[Behind the Aegis]

18. That's good to hear.

Then why your posts? You seem to be trying to either pick a fight or claim the problem of rape in prison is not a problem. Since you just stated it isn't the latter, is it the former, or is there something I am missing? Do you have any idea how humiliating it is to be raped? Do you understand that to report it could be even more humiliating?

[Warren DeMontague]

19. I agree with BTA. It seems you're reading some subtext into the OP

that I'm not seeing.

Finding out that prison rape is more common than previously thought doesn't minimize the seriousness of the crimes perpetrated against other rape victims. What my take-away from it is, is that it is long overdue for being addressed, and while we're at it we should be examining a system that fills our prisons with people arrested for smoking pot or taking "too many" pain pills, while letting actual violent criminals out early.

[CreekDog]

22. This group is based on subtext

subtext that men are victims and females are not.

you don't do it, but many here sure do.

and i don't know any women on DU that joke about prison rape --those kind of jokes tend to come from men here.

i think the rest of the group here needs a reality check.

[Warren DeMontague]

23. I don't think that's the subtext in the group, at all.

And I'd be more inclined to listen to the hyperbolic statements some people make about this group, if my memory wasn't so good about some of the flat-out bs that has been said about it, in the past.

For instance, I remember a full 3 weeks of shit-flinging outrage in meta during the Daniel Tosh thing about how "now they're defending rape jokes in the mens group". Except there was only one problem. No one in the group did anything even remotely resembling that. In fact, everyone condemned Daniel Tosh and his rape joke.

So I don't exactly take the DU cottage industry of complaining about the horrible awful no-good mens group all that seriously. Especially because when prompted to point out the exact objectionable stuff, people usually dissemble and have to infer things that aren't actually written.

The bottom line is, some people have a problem with the existence of this group period. That seems pretty clear to me.

[CreekDog]

24. My problem is about the same as if there were a "Whites group" on DU

while in practice it could be inoffensively about white people, whatever that would mean, in theory it could be inoffensive.

but that's not what would happen. you'd get a bunch of disaffected white people who feel victimized by a multicultural society that as white people, they have more privilege within than any other racial group. and we'd have confederate flags and the like, because it would just be a gathering for ignorant notions about who is really a victim due to their racial background.

and so it is with the Men's group. read this group, or this group's most frequent contributors and you get the false impression that men are the victim of women in society. that men not women are oppressed. that the ACA victimizes men because congress (a vast majority of men) passed a law that specifically harms and neglects men and a president (also a man) agreed with this.

it's ridiculous.

so yes, that's my issue with the group, not its existence, just that it becomes a haven for self-delusion and a place where not caring about the civil rights of any group one is not in is enabled.

[Warren DeMontague]

25. You sort of contradict your own point, there.

You state right up front that it's the existence of the mens group, itself- it's like having a "whites" group.

I'm an Atheist, I'm far outnumbered by religious people- I also think it's absurd when Fox News claims there's a "war on Christmas" or that the religious are somehow persecuted... and yet, we have a "religion" group on DU, don't we?

I don't see a single post in this group claiming that the ACA victimizes men. I saw someone post a thread in GD claiming that, someone who has never AFAIK posted in this group, and then I saw some folks falling all over themselves to blame that thread ON this group.

In fact, when the thread popped its head up like a zit in GD, I predicted that would happen.

If you can point to specific things in this group, that have been actually written by people here, which claim "women are not oppressed", I'd be very interested to read those words.

[Bonobo]

31. Yep, that's about the long and short of it.

Otherwise, you are just fighting shadows in your own mind, Creek Dog.

[Bonobo]

30. I would consider blocking you from the Group, but you are doing such an effective job

Of illuminating the prejudicial objections that some people have that I think you are actually helping.

You seem to say that the existence of the group itself, a "Men's Group" gives the impression that men are somehow the ones disadvantaged (in relation to women and women's rights I suppose). And yet you really aren't able to find anyone that suggests that that is true here in the group.

We cannot be responsible for the fact that you interpret things in the way you describe.

It is undeniable that men face challenges and issues that are unique to them because they are men and this is a place to discuss those things, nothing more. It is a safe haven for such discussions.

If you really are offended by the existence of this group, you have only to stop coming here or erase the group or whatever. But your own approach is rather juvenile, don't you think?

[Major Nikon]

37. The irony reaches the point of hilarity

How dare we men complain about men being raped more than women when after all we have feminists looking after our interests?

[lumberjack_jeff]

40. I agree. n/t

[Major Nikon]

32. Que the fallacious conflation with racial discrimination

[Major Nikon]

36. Someone has to vanquish the boogeyman

[Warren DeMontague]

38. And boognish the vanquiman, too!

[Major Nikon]

20. That's what the article says and the math isn't all that difficult

I'm having a hard time following you.

Discussing men being raped means one is indifferent to women being raped? Non sequitur.

[Upton]

21. I'm not really sure what you're getting at..

I mean, what point do you think I'm arguing for or against? These are DOJ statistics, not opinion. Does the fact that the vast majority of these rapes are committed by their own gender somehow diminish the suffering of the victims? Do the numbers interfere with some agenda I'm not privy to?

The prison population has skyrocketed over the last 30 years or so. Almost entirely due to the War on Drugs. Meaning many of these newly incarcerated because of drug laws have been young, naive, first time offenders..who are often tossed into medium security general population right along side hardened institutionalized criminals, with predictable results.

Yet, it appears instead of acknowledging and addressing the problem, many would prefer it be swept under the rug or even joked about. And this seems to take place even among those who are fond of considering themselves enlightened liberals..

[CreekDog]

26. are most rapes committed by men?

i'm just wondering here.

[lumberjack_jeff]

33. So because the victims are men too, they deserve no consideration? n/t

[opiate69]

34. I would say that certainly seems to be the implication..

Best not call it "misandry", though, I wager.

[CreekDog]

35. yes, they do and i'm sure you agree as demonstrated by your many posts against rape of women

you have lots of those right?

otherwise you'd give the impression that one type of rape is one you're concerned about, as you were saying about me, and if you haven't posted against the rape of females it would suggest that you actually consider one more a victim than the other.

i think rape victims are equal as victims, individually, though the statistics seem to show that women are as a percentage, more prevalent among the victims in society as a whole.

[lumberjack_jeff]

39. Ad hominem. Weak.

I will just say one thing about that. I've never posted an eyeroll smiley in response to a thread about rape in any of the womens groups.

"more prevalent in society as a whole"

No. If we accept that prisons are part of "society as a whole", the article linked to the OP says that more men are raped in prison than women are in society as a whole.

FWIW, I question the accuracy of the article linked in the op, but because reliable statistics are nonexistent it's hard to argue the point. If the justice system were truly interested in the issue they would do a NCVS survey on inmates but they don't because;
- the results are bound to be embarrassing
- they're just prisoners; and worse, men.
- as you said upthread; rape in prison "makes perfect sense". How could you possibly sort out the victims from the perps? They all look alike.

[CreekDog]

41. you want a medal because you never posted an eyeroll smiley about a woman being raped?

seriously?

you've never even shown enough interest to post an eyeroll smiley.

you aren't interested in civil rights for women because they aren't civil rights for men. this is why your civil rights mantra is false.

[Major Nikon]

42. Civil rights laws aren't gender specific

This is why your civil rights mantra is false.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

43. Nobody needs to get a medal for not posting an eyeroll in response to rape

It should be decent common sense not to do it period.

[CreekDog]

27. why don't you post a poll in GD asking whether DU thinks prison rape is wrong

your rarified world is making you think that women (or feminists) think rape of men in prison is okay.

obviously you don't read much feminist writing because feminists tend to be the ones who are more progressive, more in favor of prison reform and civil rights.

but we don't really see you in the main part of DU unless it involves an issue that you have gotten upset at the liberal position on.

[Upton]

28. You can post your own push poll..

I've noticed it's another thing you're fond of. Right beside your critiquing of individual DUer's posts you disagree with, and accusing them of not being liberal enough for this site. I do hope you're enjoying yourself.

Oh, and where did I say women believe rape of men in prison is okay? Society as a whole, and yes that includes all sides of the political spectrum, obviously doesn't take the rape of men, particularly inmates, as seriously. I really don't see how that can be denied..

[Major Nikon]

29. Who said anything about what feminists do or don't think on the issue?

Where do you come up with this?

You are making less and less sense with each post on this subject.

If your goal is to be disingenuous as possible in order to drum up some kind of 'us vs them' circle jerk, you'll have much better luck in the main part of DU.

Just sayin'