Proposing marriage is now sexist

[Major Nikon]

But only if the man does it. Kinda like holding doors open I suppose. Amazing the stuff you learn on DU.

Although actually it sounds more like the radical feminism of the 70's and 80's that promoted the idea that marriage itself was all about ownership, which was somewhat easier to understand. I do think "traditional" marriage has outlived its usefulness and the government should get out of that business.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

1. I posted a poll sometime ago about...

...the government getting out of the business of sanctioning that, who and how many we choose as partners. Most folks that voted were against eliminating government recognized unions. I kind of favor having the government kicked out of all that.

[Major Nikon]

3. Tradition is a strong influence on most people

I don't think it's very progressive to have the government promoting tradition for no other reason. If someone wants a sanctioned marriage, they can go to a priest, a rabbi, or a witch doctor if they so desire. If someone wants a marriage contract, they can write their own out with whatever terms they want. Binding arbitration is even available commercially if there's a dispute. No government involvement is required.

[Eleanors38]

21. The gov. getting out of the marriage-sanctifying biz was a proposal for compromise...

on LGBTQ marriage debate. One which would have established only the equivalent rights of traditional marriage (wills, acting attorney, ownership, etc.), leaving the "Holiness" up to religious institutions, the Flying Speghetti Monster, Albert the Alligator, or no one in particular. But the far right, normally so loathing of government Anything, would have none of that. It wanted gubmint sanction or nothing. It got the latter.

[Veilex]

2. There's been a serious fight for a while now to redefine various terms...

Its nothing we're not already used to.... the GOP and Dems (mostly the GOP) have been doing this for ages.

There is a concerted effort to paint some actions, such as your example of marriage, as being sexist. I do agree with you in that I too think this is largely due to radical feminism... much in the same way that radical feminism would paint all men as rapists.

Feminism has picked up the notion that in order for women to achieve equal rights, men must be torn down. I think a lot of radical feminism emanates from and focuses almost exclusively on that idea.

The feminism I advocate, and think is much healthier, is one where we all lift women up. Help support and empower them.
It is exponentially harder for sexism to exist around women who have been empowered. The more strong/empowered women there are, the harder it is for it to exist.

[Major Nikon]

4. One doesn't even need to advocate for feminism, just gender parity

The true path to equality is treating everyone as equals.

[Veilex]

5. Agreed!

I'm fairly annoyed with people trying to label me as a feminist because I support that gender parity.
I'm not a feminist, because I choose not to be associated with radical feminism. Instead, I'm an Egalitarian. I support everyone's rights.
I believe in fairness for all...not just a select group.

[Doctor_J]

6. I weighed in on that misplaced HoF, er, thing

I wonder what the jury results will be when it's inevitably alerted. If these are the people with whom we vote, our future world seem to be pretty dicey.

[Major Nikon]

7. I'm not sure those who promote these ideas are doing their cause any good

Because while it may be true that at one time marriage consisted of hitting your prospective mate over the head with a club and dragging her back to your cave, whatever traditional vestiges that remain aren't necessarily sexist. If one does want to make the argument that the traditional marriage proposal is an example of benevolent sexism, then it seems an even better example would be alimony or perhaps even the entire institution of marriage as we know it. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out which gender stands to loose the most privilege if those traditions are dismantled.

[Behind the Aegis]

8. There was no choice in my recent marriage (I got married 11/17).

Given we are both dudes, a man had to do it. It went something like this...

me: Now, that it is legal, think we should do it?
husband to be: well, it makes sense, especially if we do it before the end of the year and the benefits fair is coming up for my job.
me: OK, let me make some calls.
HTB: sound good.
me: hey wait? are we officially planning to get married?
HTB: sounds like it. I am cool if you are.
me: I'll start calling tomorrow.
HTB: good! Oh, did you feed the birds today?

ETA: Sorry for the sugary proposal!

[Major Nikon]

9. Which begs the question

Which one of you was the victim of sexism and which was the perpetrator?

and...

Won't someone please think of the birds?

[Behind the Aegis]

10. Yes, it does make things more complicated.

When many of these discussions come up, GL (sometimes B and T) are left out of the equation. Sometimes, it is a blessing in disguise, other times it is just another example of heterosexism. It was awhile ago (early 90's, I think) and there was an article about "sexism" in gay male coupling based on sexual proclivities. It was one of the most stupid things I had EVER seen. It was written by a straight woman, and it was so disgustingly homophobic, I would have rather read something from Fred Phelps, because at least he was honest in his bigotry. When I finally purge my files from college (so, some time in the next 20 years), I'll see if I still have the photocopy of the article.

Yes, we need to do better by our birds.

[Major Nikon]

11. I think there's a clear diversity benefit that gay marriage offers

Because out of sheer necessity it breaks down the barriers of gender expectations. The other side of that coin is that if someone wants to adhere to the traditional customs of getting down on one knee and proposing, trading rings, or whatever they should be free to do that as well regardless of their gender identity or sexual orientation.

[Doctor_J]

12. Despite your underwhelming experience, I believe that many same sex engagements also involve

champagne and bended knee and rings, which sort of contradicts the narrative that such a "ceremony" is oppressive and misogynistic. But I am looking from a distance at that situation, so could be way off.

[Behind the Aegis]

13. Oh yeah, that's true, as well.

Last year, on Modern Family the two main gay characters were both trying to have surprise proposals, and ended up proposing over a flat tire. It is true, our proposals come in many forms from elaborate to mundane. I don't see how someone could see the process as "oppressive" at all.

[Major Nikon]

14. Some look very hard to find oppression

In the ATA group, someone accused DU of bigotry due to the demographics of the admins.

[lumberjack_jeff]

16. That's awesome.

I sometimes envy my same sex friends unambiguous relationships.
"You wanna get married?"
"Yeah, I suppose. The car will be paid off in January. How about March?"
"Okay. What do you want for dinner?"

[Doctor_J]

17. btw, bta. which of you clubbed the other over the head and dragged the other

back to the cave? Apparently marriage proposals are an extension of that

[Adcul1]

19. We tied the knot last Friday.

I was hoping to put my new husband on my insurance plan. I work at Werner Enterprises. They refused, we are scrambling now.

[Major Nikon]

20. Best wishes on your new marriage

Sucks that the company you work for hasn't caught up.

[lumberjack_jeff]

15. Engagement rings: symbol of the patriarchy.

If they think that's a good tactic to rekindle popular support for feminism... good luck with that.