Where are the photos about the beauty of fat men?

[Bonobo]

Why is it that when "inner beauty" is discussed or when there are photo exhibits of beautiful fat people, it is always women?

Are fat men beautiful as well? Does inner beauty mean anything for men? Is it even a thing?

I mean, of course now some people will say "of course!" but how often do we see evidence of it.

Another thread here talks about short men and how they are viewed --just today I was listening to Rachel Maddow introduce the man who will be the new FBI Head... and she breathlessly announced that he was 6'8"!!! 6'8"!!!

What the hell is that? Does that make him an ubermensch? More impressive? How would she feel if a male announcer declared that Diane Feinstein had triple E breasts?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

1. DiFi...

...EEE...

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

2. My guess is if it's Rachel, she was being goofy with a slight hint of mockery

[Warren DeMontague]

3. To be fair, 6'8" is pretty damn tall for anyone not in the NBA.

[Bonobo]

5. And triple EEE breasts are pretty big

But neither has much to do with anything related to politics or qualifications.

[Warren DeMontague]

6. True dat.

In answer to your OP, it seems to me that not only is there a double standard in some quarters about stuff like that, it's a sort of deliberate "fuck you, becuz teh mens deserve it" double standard. Which we see a lot of.

For instance,the blogs making fun of the sad sacks at OK Cupid- "nice guys" who think they "deserve" a relationship har har yuk yuk how pathetic yarrrrrr.

Like I said at the time, isn't the thought (or maybe misconception) that one "deserves" a relationship sort of central to the whole idea of a dating site, though?

Apparently these guys committed the cardinal sin of being ugly and thinking they could put themselves out there and THERRR MEN SO THERRR FAIR GAME. If someone pulled the same crap with women on a "fat acceptance" site who were asserting that they "deserved" a relationship with a man despite society's negative view of overweight people, heaven forfend anyone should critique what they're saying. Certainly when they do it it's not an "entitlement mentality", oh no.

But put the same sentiment in a 'dudebro''s mouth and yeah, it's open season.

[Bonobo]

7. Yes, there is more than a little mean-spiritedness to it.

And the diminishing of men for their physical flaws, ugliness, shortness, fatness as well as the diminishment for their emotional lack of strength (whining, begging) is an ironic reminder (unconscious on their part) that values of male STRENGTH are still valued even by the radfems who do the diminishing.

See my point? When a radfem takes down a guy for whining or begging, what she is doing is reflecting her (still) subconscious bias in preference for men who are strong and who do not show their needs or weakness. The strong silent type after all.

How's that for irony?

[Warren DeMontague]

8. Seems to me - and this has been borne out through repeated gibberish-laden blog posts -

that some people wake up in the morning convinced that men are DOING IT WRONG and the worst thing is when a man tries to do it right because that's even more WRONG but if he tries to explain himself that's the WORST because not only is he DOING IT WRONG but he's MANSPLAINING TOO

[Bonobo]

9. We want men to be the way we want them!

No whining or begging = Be strong, silent and wait for us to express our wants.

No mansplaining = Don't talk down to us. Talk the way we want you to talk.

It all amounts to imposing one genders view of how to act/be/be defined about the actual gender.

It is morally no different than men telling women they should be less aggressive, talk less, be more feminine, etc. It is not THE SAME, but it is equivalent.

[Warren DeMontague]

13. Any time people come up with THE ONE GREAT EXPLANATION FOR WHAT'S WRONG

you know there's a problem.

Doesn't matter if it's

"original sin, caused by the devil, understood through faith, to be resolved in the end times armaggeddon after which paradise will reign on Earth"

or

"greed, caused by capitalism, understood through dialectical materialism, to be resolved through revolution after which paradise will reign on Earth"

or

"parasitical wealth redistribution, caused by government, understood through objectivism, to be resolved through atlas shruggery, after which paradise will reign on Earth"

or,

"patriarchy, caused by men, understood through radical 2nd wave feminism, to be resolved through patriarchy-smashing after which paradise will reign on Earth", etc. etc.


This video's great- it's clearly aimed at some of those MRA sites, among others, but it applies to all sorts of rigid ideological, fundamentalist, dogmatic and/or apocalyptic worldviews:

"the people who take the red pill, don't seem to be very happy."

[nomorenomore08]

15. No shortage of cruelty in this world. Nearly all of it, in my mind, completely unnecessary.

And there certainly are radfems who seem like equally nasty mirror images of the MRA assholes.

Though to be fair, the one OKCupid-related Tumblr I saw had to do with pointing out the racism, misogyny and homophobia of self-professed "nice guys." In other words, showing that these guys weren't so nice after all.

[Warren DeMontague]

16. I agree with both your points, there.

What I saw on the OKCupid tumblr was some of what you mention, and an equal measure of simply bagging on professed "nice guys" because someone, somewhere, decided that any use of that particular turn of phrase was an excuse to set off the klaxon car-alarm. "SQUARRRRRRK LOOK! A NICE GUY™ SQUAAAARRRRRRK"

Like, look at these asshole "nice guys" who get paraphrased as "I'm a nice guy, why won't a hot woman have sex with me" -- HOLY SHIT, HE THINKS HES ENTITLED HARUMPH HARUMPH.

I agree that it's silly for an obvious asshole- like some of the ones you mention- to profess to be a "nice guy", but I also don't agree that every goober who uses the expression "I'm a nice guy" is automatically an asshole.

And again, sure- maybe. And maybe he's deluded. Or maybe he should broaden his horizons. But no more so than the overweight woman who grumbles to her online echo chamber about how "the patriarchy" has programmed men (or, at least, the men who meet her qualifications, whatever they may be) to not want overweight women.

If Mr Dreaded Nice Guy™ feels "entitled" to something, then so does she.

[nomorenomore08]

17. I suppose there are things we should all feel "entitled" to - respect, dignity, some sort

of affirmation (if not necessarily sexual ). And believe me, I know how painful a prolonged lack of companionship can be. Not to mention the irritation of watching passive-aggressive, often bigoted creeps claim to be "nice guys" when I've mostly spent my life trying to be a genuinely kind person.

[Gore1FL]

4. I speculate

that as members of the patriarchy, we are less insecure.


It comes down to the definition of "beauty." A better word would be "attractive," or "valuable." Beauty, to me at least, implies a stimulation to the senses, mostly sight, sometimes sound. --Beautiful fireplace, beautiful picture, beautiful music. Value and attraction go beyond that.

"Inner beauty" substitutes for "attractive," or "valuable." I've seen it used primarily by women. Quite honestly, my anecdotal experience tells me more women than men try to conflate "beauty" of physical, and strong mental, personality. I hypothesize that it's based on how they see themselves, and how they assume men see them.

Bottom line is everyone has value and attractiveness. Everyone has "5-senses" sort of beauty, too.

[Bonobo]

10. Men being less insecure...

PERHAPS you could make that argument on a Meta level, but on an individual level of how people FEEL about themselves, I reject it utterly.

Humans are self-doubting machines who measure themselves by others. Matters not one bit what kind of plumbing you have.

[Gore1FL]

11. I meant that first part as sarcasm

My overall point was that I believe there is a semantic difference in what women believe "beauty" is and what men believe "beauty" to be. I would argue that women are more concerned about their own looks and the looks of other women than men are.

[Bonobo]

12. I agree mostly. nt

[nomorenomore08]

14. At the risk of a sweeping generalization, I think women are judged by their appearance more so

than men are. Which isn't to say men aren't judged by their appearance - how could they not be, in such a shallow culture?

So maybe the "inner beauty" thing is an apology of sorts, whether consciously intended as such or not...

For the record, though, I see where you're coming from. Being considered unattractive is no picnic regardless of gender.

[lumberjack_jeff]

18. I would say that the ramifications of the judgment are different.

We ridicule Dennis Kucinich because he's short, but still allow him on TV.

[Major Nikon]

19. Women judge other women by their appearance as much as men do, if not more

If you do a search on "worst dressed" or "best dressed" the vast majority of the articles are written by women for women. The fashion media is written primarily by women for women. Many women's magazines are full of dieting and fashion advice.

The reason why men aren't judged so much by appearance is because men in general aren't as obsessed about appearance compared to women.

[nomorenomore08]

20. You may be right. As I said, it's hard to generalize.

Mostly I just shake my head at the stupidity and immaturity of American culture.

[Major Nikon]

22. I think this thread is a response to the campaign to improve the prospects of overweight women

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Women_Have_Curves

[uppityperson]

23. LBN post "obesity is a disease". Since other poster's post hidden, added on to yours.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014512101