Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
57 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Looking for examples of misandy on DU. (Original Post) Pab Sungenis Aug 2013 OP
17,400 Major Nikon Aug 2013 #1
I dunno, but "poor menz" has 16,000 google hits at DU. lumberjack_jeff Aug 2013 #2
I'd be happy with just a consistent application of such definitions Major Nikon Aug 2013 #5
Here's the strange loop, boiled down to its core: Warren DeMontague Aug 2013 #6
calling out a person for derailing and disrupting a thread is misandry? bettyellen Sep 2013 #27
I dunno, you'll have to give me a link. lumberjack_jeff Sep 2013 #28
every time I have seen - or said myself- "poor fella" was in response to men bettyellen Sep 2013 #29
I would describe a man who responds "every time" to women's problems with "I don't fucking care" lumberjack_jeff Sep 2013 #30
I'm not about to apologize for being fed up with bullshit derailing. The men who do that ought to bettyellen Sep 2013 #31
Here, in this forum, it's not derailing. lumberjack_jeff Sep 2013 #32
the posts you brought up by Googling whatever were not all here- we were discussing bettyellen Sep 2013 #33
"I don't fucking care" doesn't need context. It is fairly unambiguous. lumberjack_jeff Sep 2013 #34
Nonsense. None of care about all things equally- and we all know of people who are full of bettyellen Sep 2013 #35
Unfortunately, most of the comments lauding the "brilliant Swiftian satire" of V. Solanas are gone. Warren DeMontague Aug 2013 #3
And real issues, as usual, take a backseat to personal beefs. No matter what "side" you're on. nomorenomore08 Aug 2013 #7
I don't know if anyone has noticed Warren DeMontague Aug 2013 #8
Good idea. Probably for the best to wait it out on the sidelines. nomorenomore08 Aug 2013 #9
Not nearly everyone. RiffRandell Aug 2013 #10
You mean, without the "nearly" qualifier? You may be right, actually... nomorenomore08 Aug 2013 #11
I'd imagine that the destruction of Meta Hayabusa Aug 2013 #4
I would say this qualifies... opiate69 Aug 2013 #12
"These male minds" doesn't mean "*all* male minds" though. I wasn't particularly offended by that nomorenomore08 Aug 2013 #13
I'm sort of curious what OTHER group of humans (in ANY context) it would be acceptable to make a Warren DeMontague Sep 2013 #14
Her confidence was obviously justified. n/t lumberjack_jeff Sep 2013 #15
Yeah. Here's an interesting thought experiment: Warren DeMontague Sep 2013 #16
All I can think of in that subthread is.... ProudToBeBlueInRhody Sep 2013 #17
Whoa..that definitely qualifies.. Upton Sep 2013 #18
Chah! lumberjack_jeff Sep 2013 #19
Oh yeah.. I saw that hide... I was kinda flabbergasted, honestly... opiate69 Sep 2013 #22
DU would hear about it for a year, at least. Warren DeMontague Sep 2013 #20
Aint that the fuckin truth opiate69 Sep 2013 #21
Yeah, nobody ever said the rules weren't enforced selectively here. nomorenomore08 Sep 2013 #24
If someone came up with some concrete examples- like, ones that didn't come from 10 post trolls, or Warren DeMontague Sep 2013 #25
I agree. Completely unacceptable even if intended as "light-hearted." nomorenomore08 Sep 2013 #23
Certainly, anger is a justifiable reaction to the story in that OP. No question. Warren DeMontague Sep 2013 #26
I've noticed a shift. lumberjack_jeff Oct 2013 #36
There are people here who want to eliminate this group.... ProudToBeBlueInRhody Oct 2013 #37
Some folks look for answers, others look for fights. Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #38
I'd add to that, but try as I might, I can't think of a fitting noun that rhymes with "socks". lumberjack_jeff Oct 2013 #40
How about "crocks"? RiffRandell Oct 2013 #46
Heh. +1 lumberjack_jeff Oct 2013 #47
If a man among you, got no sin upon his hand... opiate69 Oct 2013 #41
What more can be said? lumberjack_jeff Oct 2013 #42
Especially when he goes to his own sanctuary... opiate69 Oct 2013 #43
No shit! Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #45
I can tell your future, oh, just look what's in your hand Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #44
here Doctor_J Oct 2013 #39
That poster is my age, actually several years younger, and I know how younger folks' worldview nomorenomore08 Oct 2013 #53
Ok, which one of you is Emelina? ProudToBeBlueInRhody Oct 2013 #48
Are you serious? HappyMe Oct 2013 #49
Not in thread itself ProudToBeBlueInRhody Oct 2013 #50
Oh, okay. HappyMe Oct 2013 #51
I think, um... Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #52
Ah...a black flag op. Could be plausible if we as a gender weren't so fucking stupid Doctor_J Oct 2013 #54
And, just so the echo chamber is better informed... opiate69 Oct 2013 #55
Misandy coyotespaw Oct 2013 #56
Umm, most of the anti-gun posts in the Gungeon? Eleanors38 Nov 2013 #57

Major Nikon

(36,883 posts)
5. I'd be happy with just a consistent application of such definitions
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 06:34 AM
Aug 2013

Using a vulgar expression for female genitalia that rhymes with 4th and long would certainly earn you the "misogyny" label, yet somehow this isn't considered misandry:

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22little+dick%22&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22limp+dick%22&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com

Either none of it is bigoted hate speech or all of it is. When that definition changes based on the gender of the person it's directed towards, you know something is rotten in Denmark.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
6. Here's the strange loop, boiled down to its core:
Sun Aug 4, 2013, 06:54 AM
Aug 2013

"There is RAMPANT Misogyny on DU!"

"Where?"

"...See, Told You!!!!!"


Repeat Endlessly, until the sun burns out.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
27. calling out a person for derailing and disrupting a thread is misandry?
Sun Sep 15, 2013, 04:14 PM
Sep 2013

I thought it was making fun of people who were derailing a discussion - by pretending to be concerned about things they NEVER BOTHER start their own threads about. My milage varies, LOL.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
28. I dunno, you'll have to give me a link.
Sun Sep 15, 2013, 04:39 PM
Sep 2013

I don't remember which examples I had in mind when I posted this a month and a half ago.

In general, I think people would find the sexism obvious if DU's men were in the habit of posting, "LOL! Poor widdle wimmenz!"

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
29. every time I have seen - or said myself- "poor fella" was in response to men
Sun Sep 15, 2013, 05:03 PM
Sep 2013

Last edited Sun Sep 15, 2013, 05:55 PM - Edit history (1)

chiming in to make a thread (about an issue women take seriously) about their own manly concerns- and thus completely avoid the OP.
If you haven't noticed how frequently that happens- then you haven't been paying attention. I got so fed up with it, I replied "I don't fucking care" every time I saw a man do this in a thread about women''s issues. I'm guessing I did that about 40 times in three days and got on a dozen ignore lists. Because if any of these guys actually cared- they'd say or do something with their own damned threads. It's kind of obvious it's a game. And while you are at it, give Valerie Solanas a rest, one crazy person from 40 years ago guys doesn't have jack shit to do with real life.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
30. I would describe a man who responds "every time" to women's problems with "I don't fucking care"
Sun Sep 15, 2013, 05:33 PM
Sep 2013

Last edited Sun Sep 15, 2013, 06:25 PM - Edit history (1)

As a misogynist.

I'll keep my own counsel as to how I'd describe a woman who does the same thing.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
31. I'm not about to apologize for being fed up with bullshit derailing. The men who do that ought to
Sun Sep 15, 2013, 05:58 PM
Sep 2013

be fucking ashamed of themselves. Notice you won;t even address the bullshit derailing yourself- there's no defending it. They aren't fooling anyone, and it's not my job to make them feel good about acting like assholes.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
32. Here, in this forum, it's not derailing.
Sun Sep 15, 2013, 06:07 PM
Sep 2013

You have come *here* to tell us that you "don't fucking care" about men's concerns. We try to exercise a generally hands-off approach to blocking people, and I consider it your prerogative to be generally contemptuous about our interests, challenges and concerns.

But unlike elsewhere on DU, it doesn't give you any street cred here. You're not striking a blow for equality, you're just being... rude.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
33. the posts you brought up by Googling whatever were not all here- we were discussing
Sun Sep 15, 2013, 06:17 PM
Sep 2013

the context of the posts you were upset about- I just tried to provide you with context. Not my fault you forgot exactly why people here were ridiculing others' concerns. I remember why quite vividly.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
34. "I don't fucking care" doesn't need context. It is fairly unambiguous.
Sun Sep 15, 2013, 06:21 PM
Sep 2013

So... thanks for relieving anyone of the burden of searching DU for examples, you've helpfully delivered an excellent example right in the front door.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
35. Nonsense. None of care about all things equally- and we all know of people who are full of
Sun Sep 15, 2013, 06:25 PM
Sep 2013

shit and litter DU with phony ass concerns for sport. And those are concerns I cannot give two fucks about. Disruptors, derailers abound, and I say fuck their nonsense- let them start their own threads.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
3. Unfortunately, most of the comments lauding the "brilliant Swiftian satire" of V. Solanas are gone.
Sat Aug 3, 2013, 06:15 PM
Aug 2013

Bottom line is, though, I think examples of actual misandry i.e. hating of men are probably pretty rare. But then, so, are posts where people express actual misogyny, ie. hatred of women.

None of which stops someone like me from regularly being accused of "raving misogyny" in my posts or some such bullshit, nevermind that a thorough search of the shit I've actually written NEVER comes up with any examples of any such thing, namely, an expression of hatred of women.

If challenged on those assertions- which is what certain characters want, mind you; the point is to keep the scrim going, and to feed it, not to actually resolve anything- then invariably said "misogyny" boils down to "you disagreed with me and I couldn't think of a good comeback".

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
7. And real issues, as usual, take a backseat to personal beefs. No matter what "side" you're on.
Wed Aug 7, 2013, 06:39 PM
Aug 2013

"You're a misogynist!"
"No, you're a misandrist!"

"You're a racist!"
"No, you're a homophobe!"

Same basic idea either way... Of course there are examples of both anti-female and anti-male sentiment on DU, as there are pretty much anywhere, but nearly everyone starts to look like a hypocrite, in their selective outrage, after a while.

And as usual, none of this is personally directed at you, Warren. We're cool.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
9. Good idea. Probably for the best to wait it out on the sidelines.
Thu Aug 8, 2013, 12:11 AM
Aug 2013

I tend to do that myself most of the time, though there are other times when I just can't resist comment. Usually when people's arguments start to stray into MRA territory.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
13. "These male minds" doesn't mean "*all* male minds" though. I wasn't particularly offended by that
Tue Aug 13, 2013, 02:57 AM
Aug 2013

though I fully realize I'm a sample of one whose opinion is no more important than any other individual's.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
14. I'm sort of curious what OTHER group of humans (in ANY context) it would be acceptable to make a
Tue Sep 3, 2013, 03:17 PM
Sep 2013

statement here (even a 'joking'- one, brilliant swiftian satire, yo!) advocating mass mutilation on.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/125525338#post1

One that would survive a jury 5-1, even. (and no, it wasn't my alert. I've sort of given up on juries, especially given what I know about the prevalence of socks).

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
16. Yeah. Here's an interesting thought experiment:
Tue Sep 3, 2013, 03:48 PM
Sep 2013

Make a list of nasty, horrible violent things that could be done to a person, then make a list of a whole bunch of different groups of types of people, then try to fill in that sentence with one item from each list.

See how well that works, and try to imagine someone getting away with writing that on DU.

Upton

(9,709 posts)
18. Whoa..that definitely qualifies..
Wed Sep 4, 2013, 02:37 PM
Sep 2013

and yeah, if someone here made a similar post about women..not only wouldn't it stand, but there would be calls from certain quarters for the poster to be banned..

Must be just another example of our "male privilege"..

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
19. Chah!
Wed Sep 4, 2013, 02:45 PM
Sep 2013
not only wouldn't it stand, but there would be calls from certain quarters for the poster to be banned..


Repeating solely because it bears repeating.

But this phenomenon doesn't require anything remotely approaching the violence advocacy of the post in question.

BTW; word to the wise, never use the word "haranguing".
 

opiate69

(10,129 posts)
22. Oh yeah.. I saw that hide... I was kinda flabbergasted, honestly...
Wed Sep 4, 2013, 10:52 PM
Sep 2013

But, you know.. the kind of mental midgets we're dealing with are the type who think that a "journalist" who dropped out of fucking acting college is somehow some great fount of information and insight into areas of human behavior which she never, ya know, actually fucking studied.


(And then, I see references to the "scientific studies" about porn being trotted out as well... You know, the "studies" performed and analized by the wholly unqualified, far-right religious nutter, Judith Reismann. )

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
20. DU would hear about it for a year, at least.
Wed Sep 4, 2013, 07:21 PM
Sep 2013

Not only would there be calls for banning, there would be repeated recriminations to and stalking of anyone else who happened to be anywhere inside the group during the one week period after the post, demanding to know why they didn't drop everything to immediately come and loudly denounce it.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
24. Yeah, nobody ever said the rules weren't enforced selectively here.
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 10:23 PM
Sep 2013

And for the record, I do think DU - or much of DU anyway - tends to be a little too comfortable with anti-woman sentiment, so long as it's more or less "politely" expressed.

But what I just said doesn't remotely justify the kind of violent man-bashing we see around here from time to time.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
25. If someone came up with some concrete examples- like, ones that didn't come from 10 post trolls, or
Fri Sep 6, 2013, 03:00 AM
Sep 2013

creepy long-time lounge oddballs who were subsequently banned for it-- I might buy the "misogyny is rampant on DU" line.

As it is, though, I don't. Ask for the examples of said "misogyny", it's usually something like the "hot celebrity thread" (and sorry, nothing is going to convince many of us- a majority, actually- that finding people physically, sexually attractive somehow = "hating" them) or else (this is my favorite) misogyny consists of people asking where the misogyny is. By merely challenging the assertion, you are proving it. Voila!

Then, of course, there's the blatant misrepresentation of statements like this, which unlike the example I posted upthread, pretty damn clearly doesn't mean what it was taken out of context to mean:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1114&pid=9762

Misogyny- real misogyny- does occur but it is usually swiftly dealt with by MIRT or admin, as the case may be, and roundly condemned by everyone else, including the people in this group.

Last time I checked, the ONLY two names being regularly, seriously bandied about by most of DU for the Democratic Nomination in 2016, are both women. I don't think that would be the case if DU was reflexively somehow "anti-woman". Also, for the record, I don't think DU is reflexively anti-Man, either.

I think most of this place doesn't give a flying fuck about most of the goofy gender brou-ha-has, and rightly so.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
23. I agree. Completely unacceptable even if intended as "light-hearted."
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 10:18 PM
Sep 2013

Mutilation of human beings is barbaric, sub-civilized behavior. Period.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
26. Certainly, anger is a justifiable reaction to the story in that OP. No question.
Fri Sep 6, 2013, 03:01 AM
Sep 2013

But that's a fucked up thing to say, in any context.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
36. I've noticed a shift.
Sun Oct 6, 2013, 11:25 AM
Oct 2013

At one time, if I were to post something observing that men are not going to college, or dying on the job or suffering from mass unemployment or violence the post would have been "answered" with eye-roll smilies.

After a while, those same posts began to attract what can only be described as serious hate. The statistics must be lies, and posting those facts must be a violation of community standards. Judging from the crowd's actions, you'd think that I'd turned someone into a newt somewhere along the way.

Now, the relatively few people who respond to those posts take one of two tactics.
a) ad-hominem. "We all know how much you hate women."
b) ad-hominem with a double-shot of strawman. "Why do you hate black people?"

Yesterday, a poster attempted to explain away the fact that young men experience the lowest labor force participation rate ever with "increases in college enrollment", I posted a graph showing that college enrollment is growing only because more women are attending.


I got only one response. "Why do you blame women?"

I'm hoping that Ghandi was right. Although the reply is still a strawman/ad-hominem parfait, I consider this a win. The poster both accepts the reality of the point as well as acknowledging that it's a problem.

"at the length truth will out"

I anticipate that someone from the peanut gallery will post an eye roll smiley in response. That's fine, it shows that they couldn't think of anything better.

ProudToBeBlueInRhody

(16,399 posts)
37. There are people here who want to eliminate this group....
Sun Oct 6, 2013, 04:33 PM
Oct 2013

....and then there are others who have a clear view of what a "Men's Group" on DU should be (I suspect a lot of apologizing, self-flagellation, and general "Man, we guys are real shit heels, aren't we?), and the fact that it's not fitting that mold bothers the fuck out of them.

Women have a whole host of gender, societal and economic issues and complaints they have every right to air in public with like minded people on DU. Why can't these few people accept that men here should have the same courtesy?

I guess it's because we liberal men need the most watching, from what I gather.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
38. Some folks look for answers, others look for fights.
Sun Oct 6, 2013, 04:33 PM
Oct 2013

some folks up in treetops, just lookin' for their kites.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
44. I can tell your future, oh, just look what's in your hand
Sun Oct 6, 2013, 06:22 PM
Oct 2013

(I distinctly remember the show I was at, when that one "clicked&quot

But I can't stop for nothin, I'm just playin' in the band.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
53. That poster is my age, actually several years younger, and I know how younger folks' worldview
Wed Oct 9, 2013, 08:09 PM
Oct 2013

tends to be rather black and white. Some of what he says, I find myself nodding along with, while other stuff (like that comment) is a bit much.

ProudToBeBlueInRhody

(16,399 posts)
48. Ok, which one of you is Emelina?
Wed Oct 9, 2013, 01:19 PM
Oct 2013

Apparently this group....excuse me...."fucking little whiner babies in the fucking whining baby fucking victimized whining whine babies demanding protection men's little boys group" is entirely behind the dumbass "Are men really needed" thread in GD.

HappyMe

(20,277 posts)
49. Are you serious?
Wed Oct 9, 2013, 01:47 PM
Oct 2013

Wow. Some asshat in the thread said that?

How long would a 'are women really needed' thread last?

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
52. I think, um...
Wed Oct 9, 2013, 03:31 PM
Oct 2013

how to phrase...

nope, can't come up with one that won't get hidden. Not possible.



Anyway, that thread in GD is comedy gold. Funny shit.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
54. Ah...a black flag op. Could be plausible if we as a gender weren't so fucking stupid
Wed Oct 9, 2013, 08:51 PM
Oct 2013

Such a clever ploy must be the doing of a XX

 

opiate69

(10,129 posts)
55. And, just so the echo chamber is better informed...
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 11:23 PM
Oct 2013

Yes, at least one vociferous feminist who is known to regularly post in cetain corners did, in fact, post in defense of that post... Despite protestations to the contrary.

Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»Men's Group»Looking for examples of m...