Can anyone suggest good, simple economic sites I can visit to get up to date on the liberal economic

[applegrove]

news?

[dimbear]

1. There's a terrible tendency for economic sites to be rightwingers.

Love of money, and so forth.

But, put me down as curious too.

[girl gone mad]

2. Read the daily stock market watch thread here on DU.

[snot]

8. Agreed!

[A HERETIC I AM]

9. Why?

Seriously, what would anyone truly interested in learning about the stock market gain from reading DU's most well known coffee klatch? For the incredible insight offered by the tiny handful of regulars?

Reading the posts of a group of people who are convinced the market should only go down and just can't seem to grasp why it EVER goes up seems to be a huge waste of time.

[girl gone mad]

10. You sound kind of bitter.

Much of what gets posted on SMW comes from economists and financial writers.

Everyone in SMW grasps why the stock market goes up.

[A HERETIC I AM]

11. Bitter? Moi? Perish the thought. Not bitter. Experienced.

I'll give you the fact that the regulars on that thread, which is indeed a rather small (8 to 12) group, do a fine job of gathering articles from various sources. Having said that, information with regard to things such as earnings growth, dividend announcements and virtually all positive news is pretty much absent, things that might actually be of interest to an investor.

A while ago on another thread, someone referred to the SMW thread as a "resource". No. It isn't. Bloomberg is a resource. Morningstar is a resource. Thomson/Reuters is a resource. Hell, Google Finance is a resource. The Stock Market Watch thread is not a resource.

Someone who is truly interested in watching the stock market would be much better served by simply doing most of the legwork themselves unless they are willing to ignore the nonsense editorializing that goes on in that thread on a REGULAR basis.

Case in point in today's thread;

This post and the followup response.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1116&pid=12596

It is always "fairies" or the "Plunge Protection Team" or some other such nonsense given as the reason for the market going up.

This has been the meme on that thread for at LEAST the last 6 years. When the market goes up it is by some nefarious force.

When the market goes down,......well...according to the regulars, that's what it's supposed to do. Do they come right out and say that? No. They don't have to. All the casual observer has to do is read the thread for a couple of weeks at the most and it becomes obvious.

It's a koffee klatch, plain and simple. Woe unto the stranger that wanders in there and posts opinion contrary to the running meme. He or she will be run off tut suite. I've seen it happen time and time again.

It's fine with me if you think that thread is populated by real market mavens (it isn't) and that they possess a great font of financial insight (they don't). Just be honest enough with your readers to acknowledge that it is what it is. A small group of DU'rs with an interest in a subject they struggle to understand, putting themselves forward as Democratic Underground's go-to pantheon for market perspicacity.


I'm still waiting for one of those regulars to demonstrate they understand the difference between coupon and yield on a bond. And I get grayer by the day.

[girl gone mad]

12. Anyone is welcome to add his or her perspective.

Just don't expect it to be greeted uncritically.

PPT is old school, certainly not original to DU. I've heard traders use the term for as long as I can remember.

I'd say most of the regular commentators believe the market does not accurately reflect the state of the economy for the 99%, and on that point I completely concur. US equities are currently floating out in the ether, detached from our current economic realities.

[A HERETIC I AM]

13. Bollocks.

"Anyone is welcome to add his or her perspective. Just don't expect it to be greeted uncritically."

That should more accurately read "Anyone is welcome to add his or her perspective. Just don't expect it to be greeted at all warmly, particularly if it goes against anything anyone in this thread has ever said or felt."

The idea that "anyone is welcome" is total bollocks. I have seen it over and over and over and over. Your little group DETESTS outside opinions and has a long history of making interlopers feel unwelcome. If a new poster chimes in and immediately agrees with the running meme, they are indeed welcomed with open arms. Display a smidgeon of a contrary opinion however and watch the fuck out.

"PPT is old school, certainly not original to DU. I've heard traders use the term for as long as I can remember."

The phrase was coined by a headline in the Washington Post in 1997. If 1997 is "old school" then so be it, but the SMW regulars certainly do like using it, no matter how absurd or inaccurate.

"I'd say most of the regular commentators believe the market does not accurately reflect the state of the economy for the 99%, and on that point I completely concur."

And that specific point does NOTHING to further their credibility. Here's what the market reflects;

When a stock price is bid up, it reflects the sentiment of the buyers that things will get better for that company, that it will be more profitable in the future and is therefore a smart move to purchase shares. When the price is bid down, the opposite is the case.
THAT'S ALL IT MEANS.

However, when taken as a whole, when the entire market ( or the overwhelming majority of traded shares) are rising, then it is indeed an indicator that things are looking up.

Now, knowing you to be the well versed type that you want people to think you are, I know I am not telling you anything you don't already know. So why keep on with that same line of tired bullshit? OK, I (we) get it. The market doesn't reflect the state of the economy. Fine. It isn't a mirror anyway. It's a time machine, if nothing else, predicting (or at least trying to) the future.


"US equities are currently floating out in the ether, detached from our current economic realities."

Really? Just because the Dow has been playing around the 13,000 level for about 4 months? Is that it? At what level will "US Equities" come out of "the ether" in your opinion? The current P/E ratio of the S&P 500 is around 22 which is pretty close to the average for the last 130 years.

Here's one of my major beefs with your quaint little pet thread;

When the Dow was at 14,000 plenty of folks on that thread (and indeed elsewhere) were saying it was overbought and headed for a correction, if not a crash. Kudos for getting that one right. But no one, NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON, EVER, NOT FUCKING EVER even hinted that when the DOW got to 6750 and below that it was an oversold condition (which it was). In fact, numerous regulars were utterly CONVINCED it was going to fall all the way to 4000 or lower. The fact is, markets get overheated on both sides of the mountain and the fall all the way to 6400 was exactly that - an overheated selling frenzy completely detached from reality.

The DOW is just about where it ought to be, given the long term trend. It isn't "out in the ether". It is right where those who are buying and selling those issues think it ought to be, based on how things are going in the economy and how they feel things will continue to go.


The start of this little exchange was me simply asking "WHY?"

Why would you recommend that thread to a novice or even a well read investor who is seeking other "Liberal" sources of information? Instead of thinking it is something it is not, be happy you (and by 'you' I mean the regulars on that thread) have your little corner of DU that you can feel superior in and stop trying to convince others that it has any relevance or any real insight to offer.

[bayareamike]

3. Here are some.

Well, for starters:

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/

Here are a few of my other favorites:

http://economistsview.typepad.com/ -- Mark Thoma, University of Oregon

http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/ -- Brad Delong, UC Berkeley

http://mainlymacro.blogspot.com/ -- Simon Wren-Lewis, Oxford University

http://www.cepr.net/ -- Center for Economic and Policy Research

http://www.epi.org/ -- Economic Policy Institute

http://www.econbrowser.com/ -- James Hamilton, UC San Diego and Menzie Chinn, University of Wisconsin

http://www.angrybearblog.com/

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/

[eridani]

5. Can we pin this?

Also Economic Opportunity Institute
http://www.eoionline.org/

[bayareamike]

6. Wanted to add a couple more links.

http://robertreich.org/ -- Robert Reich, UC Berkeley/Former US Secretary of Labor

http://blogs.berkeley.edu/category/economics/ -- The Berkeley Econ Blog, UC Berkeley's economic and business blog (contributed to by various professors)

[Warpy]

4. Dr. Housing Bubble is another good one

and he saw the end of the bubble even before I did, http://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/ , although it wasn't much before I did since I had a house to sell and realized the comps were a silly dream.

http://www.roubini.com/ is wonkish but worthwhile.

[dixiegrrrrl]

7. One of my favorites

Every Tues/Thurs and Sat afternoon about this time I wander over to YouTube to get the latest
The Keiser Report.
The first half of the show is him and Stacy talking about latest econ. headlines
the 2nd half is an interview with people like Michale Hudson, Gerald Celente, Gonzo Lira, on economy
issues.

Max has a fascinating background ( look him up on Wiki)
and plays at being a clown at times
but watch him long enough and suddenly the picture becomes clear.
He also has a weekly hour long show called On the Edge ( I get that off Youtube too)
with an indepth interview type discussion about the economy.