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[AynRandCollectedSS]

This message was self-deleted by its author (AynRandCollectedSS) on Tue Jul 17, 2012, 07:20 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[orpupilofnature57]

1. Easy Easy ,it's thwarting it, that's the infograph , we need

[democrat_patriot]

2. Im still in the midst of Baingate fever at the moment.

How does LIBOR affect the election? That will determine your response so far. Bad for Obama - mostly be ignored here until 11/5/12, pushed by Rmoney maybe? fast & furious didn't help him much

Good for Obama? It'll be pushed hard once Bain dies down...

[AynRandCollectedSS]

41. It could be good for him...

If they actually move on it and people see that he's not letting the bankers get away with murder. That's why I want people to be aware. I'm a BIG Obama supporter.

[Voice for Peace]

76. 5 lousy recs is a good number here

many great OPs go down with no recs at all.

Stuff on DU moves very quickly and it's easy to miss.
People read and forget to rec even when they appreciate.

You can always go back to your OP and keep kicking it to
keep it visual.

The LIBOR thing is exciting and I'm very glad to see the
US justice dept is getting involved in investigation.


(welcome to DU if you're new here)

[Swede Atlanta]

73. This is good for Obama......

He keeps talking about the opportunity gap, the crushing concentration of wealth at the top, the need for reasonable regulation and oversight of "Wallstreet" as embodied in Dodd-Frank (a bill the pukes keep trying to either deny funding to implement or repeal).

This scandal just underscores how crooked Wall Street it even after it was bailed out by the U.S. taxpayers. It reinforces the need not only for Dodd-Frank but possibly other new regulations.

This is actually sweet nectar for Obama.

[westerebus]

3. Yours is not the only post on this subject.

It has been and will be a topic for some time to come.

WELCOME to du and the economy group.

[CanonRay]

4. I'd get excited if I actually thought DOJ would get off their ass and do something

but, unfortunately, I don't believe that. Not our guy Eric "Protect the Banks" Holder.

[bvar22]

87. Now THATS not fair.

Our Justice Dept has been very busy protecting the nation from Medical Marijuana Smokers
and coordinating (or turning a blind eye) to the nationally Coordinated Police State Suppression of those dirty hippies at OWS.

[Tx4obama]

15. U.S. considering criminal charges in Libor case

U.S. considering criminal charges in Libor case
Here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002950741

[CanonRay]

39. Con-sid-er-ing

A four syllable word for doing nothing while appearing to do something. I'll believe it when I see the indictments. I am not holding my breath.

[Tx4obama]

46. Read the ARTICLE not just the headline - they are BUILIDING CRIMINAL CASES...

U.S. considering criminal charges in Libor case

(Reuters) - The U.S. Justice Department is building criminal cases against several financial institutions and their employees related to the manipulation of interest rates, The New York Times reported on Saturday.

Citing government officials close to the case who spoke on condition of anonymity, the Times said traders at Barclays Plc (BARC.L) were among the individuals against whom Justice was building cases. Authorities expect to file charges against at least one bank later this year, the newspaper reported.

-snip-

Here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002950741

[AynRandCollectedSS]

61. Thanks, Tx4obama!

Yes, that's exactly my point. I understand why people are skeptical, but I think this is the real deal. Some states, New York and Connecticut I think so far, are also building up cases.

Here's something from just 15 minutes ago in the WSJ:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303612804577528882291676706.html?mod=WSJINDIA_hpp_sections_markets

I'm from the Dallas area and just might come back if I hear about more people like you! Remember Ann Richards? The good ol' days.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

63. ONE BANK? And maybe an additional one or more? Is it too soon to break out the champagne?

The DOJ's three-year history of not going after the banksters, and the absence a reference to any interest in individuals, indicates that the individuals involved with this are going to go to continue to go on free, rich, and happy.

[CanonRay]

81. I'll leave it at this: I sincerely hope you are right. n/t

[1StrongBlackMan]

82. Shhh ...

In some people's world, all the evidence would have been gethered; the case brought; and the banksters would be hauled off to jail ... in 43 minutes (one hour less commercial breaks).

[hootinholler]

84. And once they are built

Will they be settled for pennies on the dollar or will they be prosecuted and will assets of the guilty be stripped to offset the costs of this crisis?

I hope for the latter and sadly, expect the former.

Just once I want to see these mother fuckers get ratfucked themselves. We also need the prosecutions to not stop in the boardroom. There were a whole lot of people enabling and supporting fucking over the middle class and poor. Our savings accounts (those who still have a little) have been yielding what 1-2% for the last 10 years or so because they are tied to LIBOR.

[dixiegrrrrl]

85. When they are done with that, they can start on credit-card swipe fees fraud:

Visa Inc. (V), MasterCard Inc. and some of the biggest U.S. banks agreed to a settlement of at least $6.05 billion in a price-fixing case brought by retailers over credit-card swipe fees.

The total value of the settlement is $7.25 billion to a class of about 7 million merchants in the U.S. that accept Visa and MasterCard credit cards and debit cards, a law firm for the merchants, Robins Kaplan Miller & Ciresi LLP, said in a statement. ....

The agreement, which provides for a temporary reduction in rates for merchants and allows them to impose surcharges on customer purchases, follows a seven-year legal battle with U.S. retailers that accused the two largest payment networks of conspiring with banks to fix swipe fees, or interchange.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-13/visa-mastercard-settle-merchants-antitrust-swipe-fee-suit.html

[Tx4obama]

47. LIBOR Investigation: Justice Department Building Criminal Cases Against Barclays, Others

And here's another article that also says 'BUILDING Criminal Cases...'

LIBOR Investigation: Justice Department Building Criminal Cases Against Barclays, Others
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/15/libor-investigation-justice-department_n_1673971.html

[westerebus]

71. 27 June 2012

US Justice Department and Barclay's enter into a cooperation agreement in which the DoJ will NOT pursue criminal charges against Barclay's.

[Warpy]

43. The Feds as well as state and local governments got screwed on interest rates

after the crisis and before the crisis, those rates were concocted to fool regulators into thinking the banks were solvent when they were far from it.

The problem is that so few people know what LIBOR means and if they do, they wonder what some scandal about a bunch of banks in the UK has to do with the US.

As this thing progresses, men like Geithner are going to be found up to their rotten necks in the edifice created by fraud.

Whether or not this is what crashes the whole derivatives casino is anyone's guess. That crash is coming, though, and it will take everything else with it when it goes.

[bvar22]

88. "The Feds as well as state and local governments got screwed..."

[font size=5]WE got screwed.[/font]
The US Taxpayers.
Those who cannot afford to buy Tax Breaks,
or hide their assets offshore.

"The Feds as well as state and local governments" = You & Me
(unless you don't have to work for a living).

[Warpy]

92. Of course we did

But the Fed and state governments are the ones who are going to have to sue those London banksters and all their buddies in the US who colluded on rate fixing.

[Jackpine Radical]

96. What, they found some whistleblowers to prosecute?

[AnotherMcIntosh]

24. Not only is it likely that those at the DOJ will not do anything, they may be auditioning

for jobs with the super-rich after they leave the DOJ.

Why not? To paraphrase Willie Sutton, that's where the money is.

[progressoid]

53. Maybe if they were caught smoking weed.

[midnight]

56. O boy, that would bring on quite an investigation.

[ProfessionalLeftist]

5. The "news" media certainly has a blackout on this

Doing their corprat darnedest to ignore it.

[orpupilofnature57]

8. Misanthrope Sycophant Monsters

[elleng]

6. Some understand,

and some are working on building cases against them, as you've pointed out.

U.S. Is Building Criminal Cases in Rate-Fixing.
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/07/14/u-s-is-building-criminal-cases-in-rate-fixing/?hp

Given the complexity, and the vast self-interest of the 'bad guys,' its not likely we'll see useful remedies in the near future (if ever.)


'Authorities around the globe are examining whether financial firms manipulated interest rates before and after the financial crisis to improve their profits and deflect scrutiny about their health. Investigators in Washington and London sent a warning shot to the industry last month, striking a $450 million settlement with Barclays in a rate-rigging case. The deal does not shield Barclays employees from criminal prosecution.

The multiyear investigation has ensnared more than 10 big banks in the United States and abroad. With the prospects of criminal action, several firms, including at least two European institutions, are scrambling to arrange deals, according to lawyers close to the case. In part, they are trying to avoid the public outcry that stemmed from the Barclays case, which prompted the resignation of top executives. . .

With civil actions, regulators can impose fines and force banks to overhaul their internal controls. But the Justice Department would wield an even more potent threat by bringing criminal fraud cases against traders and other employees. If found guilty, they could face jail time.

The criminal investigations come at a time when the public is still simmering over the dearth of prosecutions of prominent executives involved in the mortgage crisis. The continued trouble in the financial sector, including the multibillion-dollar trading losses at JPMorgan Chase, have only further fueled the anger of consumers and investors.

But the Libor case presents a potential opportunity for prosecutors. Given the scope of the problems and the number of institutions involved, the rate-rigging investigation could provide a signature moment to hold big banks accountable for their activities during the financial crisis.

“It’s hard to imagine a bigger case than Libor,” said one of the government officials involved in the case.'

[AynRandCollectedSS]

38. Exactly!

I totally understand the cynicism, but the gravity of this scandal cannot be overstated, none the less. The states are planning to sue as well.

Actually, it looks like another DUer was all over that aspect already:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002934186

Thanks for paying attention! I guess I learned how to make an effective DU thread title today...lol!

[Warpy]

44. There was a front page article in the right wing fishwrap here in NM

stating that the LIBOR rate fixing had likely cost taxpayers here a fortune on building our light rail system. Being a right wing rag, they're trying to hang the loss around the neck of the Democratic governor who got it all built and running instead of the bankers who colluded in a fraudulent system that robbed us all.

Wait until people start to twig to the fact that their credit card rates were affected by this stuff. Well, if the MSM bothers to mention that part.

Iceland has the right idea. They nationalized their banks and now they're chasing down and charging the banksters with fraud.

[amfortas the hippie]

79. exactly

and from the OP:"The investigation into the global banks is unusually complex and it could continue for years, and ultimately end in settlements rather than indictments,"
It took many folks a while to get their heads around all the alphabet zoo of CDS, etc..let alone "Derivatives"
All of this is exceedingly Complex.MSM is very bad at Complex.

[3feetofsnow]

7. No surprize here

I have been telling people about this for years. The game is rigged in favor of the wealthy. No surprize.

[orpupilofnature57]

9. Jefferson warned us in 1812

[Live and Learn]

10. Exactly. It is really one of those "duh" moments.

If they do anything about it, that will be news.

[2pooped2pop]

11. I think for me

it's partially the complexity of the case and the deep doubt that they will be properly held accountable for the hell they have created, that keeps me from getting too excited.

I want more than regulations. I want heads to roll. I want them in prison. I want them penniless, homeless, destitute. But they will probably pay a fine instead.

But I am watching this story and hope to be able to get excited about it soon.

[secondvariety]

12. The Justice Dept.

knows what happened, they know who did it, they know how they did it, they know why they did it. If anything is done about it is another question.

[geckosfeet]

13. Agreed. It IS huge. There will be trials. But it will long

and tedious. Few will have the attention span. Maybe after the elections there will be some focus on it. Actually, O should use this as proof that banking reform and regulation is badly needed.

[Live and Learn]

16. Maybe we are just jaded.

Hard to get excited when you've seen those in power get away with their crimes time and time again. I am still waiting for someone to be held accountable for the illegal Iraq invasion.

[ejbr]

23. + 1 n/t

[Beartracks]

17. MSM: "Can it fit in 30-seconds? Oh. Well... Next up, the latest with TomKat!" n/t

[Fire Walk With Me]

18. Kick!

[Lint Head]

19. I posted the graph in FB the other day.

[AynRandCollectedSS]

60. Good for you!

I think it's a really good graphic. I don't how to wake up the sleeping masses though.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

20. the British Conservatives are in bed with the big banks

so they have been slow to act

[sulphurdunn]

21. I'm sure that before this is over

there will be an investigation. Speeches will be given. Editorials will be written. Strongly worded letters will be sent, wrists slapped and small fines levied. Then it will go away everywhere but in the US, where it will have never even arrived, unless it can be tied to sex and drugs.

[JDPriestly]

22. Agreed. This case demonstrates the utter corruption of our entire

financial system from the smallest pay-day loan company to the largest banks AND THE FED.

Where was Timothy Geithner in 2008 when the Fed was notified of this by a Barclay's employee? (Remember when he testified to Congress that he was not a regulator, and I believe he meant when he was at the FED.) Where was Bernanke?

And what about the many, many bank depositors whose interest was almost nothing thanks to the collusion between the banks and, might I add, the FED in recent years. This hurts seniors, pension funds, anyone with a structured settlement or a trust fund and other conservative depositors. And bond holders?

Also, how has this manipulation affected the debt of the US and the UK among other nations? (How does it affect the solvency of our Social Security Trust Fund? Or does it?)

After all, while the interest rates that our banks have been required to pay and which they have paid their depositors have been unbelievably low, the interest rates that credit card debtors and people with subprime mortgages have paid have been extremely high. Who siphoned off the profits and where did they take those profits?

I think some of the reasons that this story has not "sold," that is, it hasn't excited people are that

a) people do not understand what it means in their lives; (So it affects ME. Why? How? Did it lower or raise my interest rates? Does it depend on whether I am a borrower or a depositor? What if I am both? After all, mortgage loan rates are very low now if you are lucky enough to qualify. So didn't some people benefit from this? Aren't the gains due to the corruption as great as the losses?);

b) the information about what happened seems, thus far, to be rather vague (For example when did the rigging begin? How many transactions might it have affected? Who precisely was involved? Not the numbers of banks but which ones?); and

c) no one is explaining HOW colluding to fix LIBOR rates would benefit anyone. People do not understand the complex trading that goes on and how the LIBOR rates support many transactions throughout a given day, how it is possible to "gamble" on sure things if you know in advance what that rate will be.

As more information emerges, people will become more interested. But we have to remember that most people don't understand what happened in the sub-prime mortgage crisis. Most people have no idea what the commodities market is. And when anyone tries to explain it, the listener's eyes shut. Sleep descends.

You are good at explaining things. Keep posting. Sooner or later people will get it. It's like learning a foreign language. At first it is all just gibberish -- and then you recognize a word -- and then in time you actually understand and eventually can read and speak in the language.

We need a sitcom on economics. something that includes a story line that wakes people up and holds their interest but explains the basic economics involved -- not some difficult to follow documentary. (But then, I sit in LA and think LA not NYC.)

Just don't get discouraged.

[bonniebgood]

80. Good Points. We also need a sitcom

in civics. Until someone, high profile banker is frogmarched to jail, everything else is just talk.
I followed the AG of California and AG of New York holding out on the housing crisis settlements and in the end they accepted the chicken feed the banks offered. this will go down the same way. small fines and no one jailed or even loses their job.
You have to be caught smoking weed to meet those kinds of punishments.

[JDPriestly]

94. Even playing hookey from school warrants more time in LA than the mortgage fraud that

was commonplace in these whereabouts during the early 2000s. To say nothing of the internet start-up scams in the 90s. Business crime is hard to prosecute. The defendants hire lawyers and there is just too much paper for busy prosecutors. Smoking weed or painting graffiti are much simpler offenses to prosecute. Not that people should get away with the minor offenses. It's just that it is absurd to punish little guys for lesser offenses and let the big guys get away with the big crimes.

I'm not a person who wants to punish every minor infraction or mistake. And goodness knows are prisons and jails are too full as it is and we spend far too much on criminal enforcement. But ????

How can we expect 15-year-olds in low-income neighborhoods to respect laws and ethical standards even if they disagree with them if bankers and hedge-fund managers who live in the Hamptons refuse to do so and get by with it?

[Iwillnevergiveup]

25. Rec #49

We MUST pay attention to this....reporting false rates, REALLY?????

[patrice]

26. K&R 'cause I'm already paying attention. I mention it and REC it every chance I get.

[patrice]

28. I'm also working it on Face Book. Simplyfing as much as possible. Explaining. nt

[Flying Squirrel]

29. Zzzzz

I`m awake, i`m awake! ...zzzzz..... I`m sure it`s very important. Can you boil it down for me in a 30-second sound bite? I`m afraid years of conditioning by the MSM has rendered me incapable of paying attention any longer than that.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

86. and make it sexy.

have you ever read "Amusing Ourselves to Death"? By Neil Postman, a renowned social and media theorist/critic.

You would really like it, I'll bet.

I know I sure did when I read it. It actually was published back in 1985, and predicted so much of what's going on now.

[lostnote12]

30. Once the discovery results become kitchen discussion Romneys association with the Oligarchy

will ulimately spell his defeat as a viable steward of the nations interest.....as Letterman stated, "he looks like he should be an underwear model"......

[Rain Mcloud]

31. Rec #55

This will blow over like a poot in a whirlwind.
Nothing but strong government oversight is going to stop the business as usual.
Giving Jami Dimon a pair of presidential cufflinks does not give me confidence that anything will happen.
Instead they will concentrate on filling the for-profit prisons with pot smokers,minority voters and lollygaggers.
Does anyone remember this guy named Tom Delay? Did he ever decide to show up for his sentence?

[bvar22]

90. strong government oversight ?

From this crowd?


[font size=4]Paulson with Co-Conspirators

"Now THIS is Bi-Partisanship! "[/font]

For those still under the delusion that the US Government is too big to act quickly
on any issue,
it took our government (The House, The Senate, and the White House) less than a week
to deliver nearly a $TRILLION DOLLARS to the Big Banks after Paulson
delivered his 3 page Ransom Note.
Our Government can strike faster than a Rattlesnake when their 1% Portfolios are threatened.

Also worthy of noting, this massive daylight robbery was cleverly timed to occur during the change over of administrations from the Republicans to the Democrats,
lending Plausible Deniability to BOTH dominant political parties.


Kumbaya My Lord, Kumbaya!





You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
[font size=5 color=green]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/center]

[Rain Mcloud]

100. Just as I misstated oversight in place of regulation neither does

government oversight equate to corporate welfare.
And yet to the powers that be,it apparently does.
I was of the opinion at the time that the world had been played by the neocon's.
All the de-regulation was an elaborate staging by the world's smallest minority to withdraw all the money out of the bottom feeder economy and sock it away just as it had been done before prior to WW1 and again in 1929.
This tried and true method would set the stage for the need of a bailout to avoid world banking collapse.
Just a theory.
Thanks for the correction.
Take Me back?

[Booster]

32. I'm always suspect when someone with a very low post count throws something up and

then doesn't join in the conversation.

[Curmudgeoness]

36. I have to agree. I also realize how important this LIBOR issue is.

But you are right.....it is always suspicious when a low post count OP comes along and then we never hear a peep from them in their own thread. With this one, I don't understand why.

[AynRandCollectedSS]

40. Sorry...

I run a FB page and have two small children. Don't be suspect...I'm here!

[bvar22]

91. If the OP is clearly written,

and provides sufficient documentation,
I don't see a need or a reason to participate in the thread.

I get more aggravated with those who try to dominate a thread with multiple redundant posts of their personal opinion without adding any additional information or clarification.

[hay rick]

33. K&R

[Kablooie]

34. Tie Romney to it and you'd jump to the to top of the greatest.

[madrchsod]

35. been following since it broke...

followed mostly on bbc overnight and other decent news organizations. yes it a VERY important story

[A HERETIC I AM]

37. "WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO TO GET YOU GUYS TO PAY ATTENTION TO THIS?"

Post in the nude and provide photographic proof.


That should do it.

[AynRandCollectedSS]

42. Maybe next time...

I'll definitely keep that advice in mind!

[Tansy_Gold]

50. Or you can just come over to the daily Stock Market Watch and Week-end Economist threads

both of which are in the Economy forum. We've been discussing Libor for a looooooooooooooooooooooooong time.

[AynRandCollectedSS]

57. Still kind of learning the ropes here...

Probably should have just made it a general post. Sorry about that.

[just1voice]

45. Most people don't even know they were directly ripped off and further don't care

Most people don't understand banking or finance and gave up ever learning about it years ago. Part of the reason is how highly propagandized people are, they have been told it's all over their heads. Another part is pure stupidity, many people have no clue how their credit card or mortgage rate is calculated, much less their pensions, so it actually is over their heads. Finally, many people know how corrupt the world markets have become and don't think much will happen to change it. That leaves a disgruntled, angry and unrepresented public at large.

In fact, the elite likely will throw a few of their own under the bus, like Barclays, and are scheming right about how to hoard the remaining resources for themselves, again leaving the 99% out of it completely.

[DemReadingDU]

66. Very true, and

Some people that should understand these various frauds, have other priorities, hobbies, vacations, etc. I have a wealthy sister who has a professional financial planner who is supposed to manage the investments. In her prior careers, she was a CPA and VP at a bank in Boston!


Then I have other relatives who truly believe that fraud and corruption can't happen here because of all the rules and regulations, and a justice system to prosecute such criminals.

[DeSwiss]

48. It's all coming down.

All. Of. It.

It is almost impossible for the unAwakened to see it for what it is.

So you won't be able to assist others in understanding the magnitude of this latest scandal until they seek to know the TRUTH.

- Until then, remember this:

''Not to enlighten one who can be enlightened is to waste a man.
To endeavor to enlighten one who cannot be enlightened is to waste words.
A wise man wastes neither men nor words.''

~Confucius

K&R
[center][/center]

[snot]

49. AynRandCollectedSS, pls

don't be discouraged! Some of us come to DU for actionable info, and use it.

[AynRandCollectedSS]

58. Thanks!

OMG...LOVE your profile pic!!!! It's Err!

I think I kind of screwed up this time and committed some DU faux pas, but, I'll learn.

[snot]

83. Why, thank you.

(re- my profile pic.) I've never been sure how many people get it.

I love yours, too!

[brewens]

51. Right-wingers will still ignore this. No matter how much damage it's done.

Their core "principal" is that anything goes when getting money. It doesn't matter if you earn it, inherit it or steal it. Once you have it, it's yours fair and square and you deserve to live like a king.

They think that they're crooks, but they are their crooks. Doing anything to take them down will hurt wealthy powerful people on their side and give liberals an advantage.

[Angry Dragon]

52. kick

[Oldtimeralso]

54. Proud to be Rec. 100!

and here is the kick

[AynRandCollectedSS]

59. Thank you!

[HIlton Brackett]

55. Time to Adjust!

Sound like the Banksters need to eat the big one on this, and be forced to re-wright all current mortgage loans down to their real value. Without the whole Emanate Domain thing.

[SunSeeker]

62. Huffp has this on its front page, albeit with a Geithner-bashing angle.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/16/tim-geithner-libor_n_1674552.html

Huffpo has been keeping the libor scandal on its front page, but they seem to have a hard-on for Geithner. It is distracting from the scandal itself, but that's Huffpo for you. They always have to make it about a personality. Or side boob.

[Festivito]

64. Thanks. It's a great topic that will take little time.

Is it the biggest scandal out there? If so, how much is it? The derivative scandal -- I think it a scandal -- is about 645T$ with perhaps 200T$(pulled right out of my rear end) in losses, er, ah, money transfers to the rich with more to come.

Our American presidential election which one time before allowed that first item to happen along with unnecessary wars that Will cost 3T$ plus the lives lost. This next election is just as important.

We have the media consolidation problem that allows and even fosters the first two.

Then we get to LIBOR hiding a few points to a few percent of, admittedly, a huge number. But, ... what is that number and what is that rate difference, or how much is that difference? You show the scandal involves about a quadrillion dollars. Okay, a percent is going to be about 10T$, if they could shave a whole percent without being found out immediately. I'm seeing this as a less than 1T$ problem. That is big, but, we have bigger fish to fry. We will give LIBOR due attention provided it can be easily put into its place.

That infographic is a great idea and it looks pleasing.

Why, though, don't I want and benefit from courts. It starts with an imperative of me, talks about us as a subject, switches back to the you, which is then to be taken as I myself. Sorry, I already MEGOed out. Then, there is that list, should I notice it is missing something -- it needs a concept title, larger, and perhaps the items in a circle or something.

The titles in link banners are too small I blew them up and still could not read them. Am I supposed to ignore them?

Why are DERIVATIVES on that truck along with things I want? It seems to lack parallelity.

I feel like I'm being sold a bill of goods that I kind of want. It's just not coming in clearly.

I'm trying to be helpful in my way. Can I urge you to continue.

[AynRandCollectedSS]

67. More here...

It's not about the numbers as much as it's about WHO was hurt. Do you have a mortgage, car payment or pay on credit card debt? All of these things could have been affected. YOU, me and every other person on DU who pays any bill that has a interst rate were just ROBBED.

If that doesn't piss you off or wake you up, I guess nothing will.

From Wonkette:

"So why does everyone care about a handful of numbers that a couple guys in an office crunch every day before lunch? The simple answer is that $360 trillion in assets worldwide are indexed to LIBOR, and much of those assets are consumer debt instruments like mortgages, car loans and credit card loans."


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/07/05/explainer-why-the-libor-scandal-is-a-bigger-deal-than-jpmorgan/

[Festivito]

69. Losing 50% of housing value did not wake people.

Losing a percent or two might have legs if, IF, they put some banksters in jail.

[AynRandCollectedSS]

70. I agree...

The housing thing was horrible, but even though they were running a mortgage default swap scheme that would make Al Capone blush, actually fixing the interest rate at which we all borrow is more calculated and nefarious, mainly because such a very few were involved this time. This is a much more easily identifiable crime and the culprits can be targeted directly. The crisis in 2007-2008 was a house of cards that imploded. There were thousands of people involved and whether crimes were actually committed is hard to prove--except for robosigning. Basically I'm saying that it was too multifaceted and complex to pin down what/where/who/when/why.

This is different though. They ARE building a case this time. Let's pray it sticks and some of these asses finally get what's coming to them.

[TrollBuster9090]

65. PUT ON A RIDICULOUS HAT, WAVE A YELLOW FLAG WITH A COILED TURD ON IT, AND BLAME IT ON OBAMA.

That's what.

[AynRandCollectedSS]

68. Ha...

I'm actually not sure if you're trying to be funny, insulting, condescending or what exactly.

Interesting that you're not concerned that the interest rates that DIRECTLY affect how much you pay for your mortgage, car loan, or credit card bills were being manipulated by a handful of people. Oh, well.

All I can say at this point is, right back atcha'.

[TrollBuster9090]

72. No, I was being funny/sarcastic, and the joke was directed more at the MSM than anybody else.

Crazy people dressed up in tricorn hats? That's news.
International banks screwing everybody in the world through clandestine price fixing?....dog bites man story. Not news.

[AynRandCollectedSS]

97. Okay, sorry...GOT IT!

That's the hardest thing about online communication. It's so difficult to tell what people's tone is. Sorry, friend!

[OnyxCollie]

78. "Coiled turd"

LOL!

I can't wait 'til I see my RW cousin and his stupid Gadsden flag hat.

[TrollBuster9090]

93. Yeah, I don't know why they bother with the Gadsden flags.

Only an idiot needs to be reminded not to tread on a steaming coil of shit.

[Hotler]

74. DOJ, Rule of Law, hahahahahahahahahahah! n/t

[raouldukelives]

75. Maybe if you knew how some of us could get a piece of that pie?

Torrents of horrible scandals, environmental disasters, human rights violations, slave labor, the takeover of our government and even the reality of climate change haven't been enough to dissuade people from joining hands with the corporations and working & investing with them. I really don't know what it will take for people to demand change and a better world for tomorrow instead of dividends for themselves now and an unbearable future for all living things.
If only they could somehow get more out of not supporting Wall St than just the knowledge they have been helping to create a better future for people & critters they might jump on board.

[Hissyspit]

77. Here's the Robert Reich post from a week ago about it: The Wall Street Scandal of All Scandals

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002914211

http://robertreich.org/post/26708840314

The Wall Street Scandal of all Scandals

SATURDAY, JULY 7, 2012

Just when you thought Wall Street couldn’t sink any lower – when its myriad abuses of public trust have already spread a miasma of cynicism over the entire economic system, giving birth to Tea Partiers and Occupiers and all manner of conspiracy theories; when its excesses have already wrought havoc with the lives of millions of Americans, causing taxpayers to shell out billions (of which only a portion has been repaid) even as its top executives are back to making more money than ever; when its vast political power (via campaign contributions) has already eviscerated much of the Dodd-Frank law that was supposed to rein it in, including the so-called “Volker” Rule that was sold as a milder version of the old Glass-Steagall Act that used to separate investment from commercial banking – yes, just when you thought the Street had hit bottom, an even deeper level of public-be-damned greed and corruption is revealed.

Sit down and hold on to your chair.

- snip -

That would be a mammoth violation of public trust. And it would amount to a rip-off of almost cosmic proportion – trillions of dollars that you and I and other average people would otherwise have received or saved on our lending and borrowing that have been going instead to the bankers. It would make the other abuses of trust we’ve witnessed look like child’s play by comparison.

- snip -

So far, the scandal has been limited to Barclay’s, a big London-based bank that just paid $453 million to U.S. and British bank regulators, whose top executives have been forced to resign, and whose traders’ emails give a chilling picture of how easily they got their colleagues to rig interest rates in order to make big bucks. (Robert Diamond, Jr., the former Barclay CEO who was forced to resign, said the emails made him “physically ill” – perhaps because they so patently reveal the corruption.)

But Wall Street has almost surely been involved in the same practice, including the usual suspects — JPMorgan Chase, Citigroup, and Bank of America – because every major bank participates in setting the Libor rate, and Barclay’s couldn’t have rigged it without their witting involvement.

- snip -

This is insider trading on a gigantic scale. It makes the bankers winners and the rest of us – whose money they’ve used for to make their bets – losers and chumps.

MORE

[grantcart]

89. I generally don't pay much attention to posts that use phrases like 'oligarchs' and 'plutocrats'.

If you want to outline illegal behavior conducted by a particular individual or a particular group I would be interested.

The plutocrats have filled up my schedule so that I only have about 30 minutes a day, and some days no time at all, for DU and I don't have the time or patience for overblown rhetoric.

[earthside]

95. We now live in a plutocracy ...

... whether you think it is "overblown rhetoric" or not.

I don't know what else can you call this economic, political and governmental power structure.

[AynRandCollectedSS]

98. Precisely and thank you...

Hiding your head smugly in the sand will not erase the fact that they are taking over and the ONLY tool we have to fend them off is knowledge. Hell, that might not be enough. I'd rather be informed than a complacent, therefore compliant by default, sitting duck though.

So here's the deal. What can we do? Well, for starters I have severed ALL ties with big banks and moved my money, mortgage and car loan to a local credit union. It's not much, considering the tiny amount of money I have in the grand scheme of things, but it's a start.

I wasn't trying to be mellow-dramatic, but it IS a big damn deal. It might be the catalyst to actually get some of these criminals behind bars and new regulations instated.

[grantcart]

99. See I took the question in your OP title seriously.

WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO TO GET YOU GUYS TO PAY ATTENTION TO THIS?

If you are interested in reaching a wider audience lose the loose angry bloated rhetorical terms and tell me who did what.

If you are interested in mastubatory political rhetoric that is designed to make you feel better about your individual position then make no changes.

You asked the question and I answered it. I guess it was, like much of your language, not a serious question but a rhetorical one.

[Doctor_J]

101. First of all, stop shouting

Second, this isn't "huge" because nothing will come of it. Holder is too busy busting pot smokers and whistleblowers to do anything about fraud and election theft. He's "building cases" that may result in fines 3 or 4 years from now.