Economy
Related: About this forumSTOCK MARKET WATCH, Tuesday, December 13, 2011
Last edited Tue Dec 13, 2011, 11:46 AM - Edit history (1)
[font size=3]STOCK MARKET WATCH, Tuesday, December 13, 2011[/font]
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Dow 12,021.39 -162.87 (-1.35%)
Nasdaq 2,612.26 -34.59 (-1.32%)
S&P 500 Index 1,236.47 -18.72 (-1.51%)
10-Yr Bond... 2.04 +0.02 (+0.99%)
30-Year Bond 3.08 +0.03 (+0.95%)
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[font color=blue][font size=2]Euro, Yen, Loonie, Silver and Gold[center][/font]
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[div align="center"][font color=black]Bush Administration Officials Convicted = 2[font color=black][font size=2]Handy Links - Market Data and News:[/font][/font][center]Economic Calendar[link:cbs.marketwatch.com/tools/marketsummary/default.asp?siteid=mktw|Marketwatch Data]Bloomberg Economic News[link:finance.yahoo.com/|Yahoo! Finance][link:finance.google.com/finance|Google Finance][link:banktracker.investigativereportingworkshop.org/banks/|Bank Tracker][/center]
[link:banktracker.investigativereportingworkshop.org/credit-unions/|Credit Union Tracker]Daily Job Cuts[font color=black][font size=2]Handy Links - Economic Blogs:[center][/font][/font]
The Big PictureFinancial Sense:sp::sp::sp::sp:Calculated RiskNaked CapitalismCredit Writedowns
[link:delong.typepad.com/sdj|Brad DeLong]Bonddad[link:atrios.blogspot.com/|Atrios]goldmansachs666The Stand-Up Economist[/center][font color=black][font size=2]Handy Links - Government Issues:[/font][/font][center]
[link:legitgov.org/action.html|LegitGov]Open GovernmentEarmark Database[link:usaspending.gov/|USA spending.gov][/center]
" target="_blank">The Coming Collapse of the Middle ClassCharlie Rose talks with RoubiniCharlie Rose talks with Krugman
William Black: This Economic DisasterBill Moyers with Kevin Drum and David Corn
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Names: David Safavian, James Fondren
Dishonorable Mention: former House majority leader, Tom DeLay
Bush Administration Officials Charged = 1
Name(s): Richard Lopez Razo
Financial Sector Officials Convicted since 1/20/09 = [/font][font color=red]12[/font]
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[font size=3][font color=red]This thread contains opinions and observations. Individuals may post their experiences, inferences and opinions on this thread. However, it should not be construed as advice. It is unethical (and probably illegal) for financial recommendations to be given here.[/font][/font]
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Pale Blue Dot
(16,834 posts)Dec 13 08:30 Retail Sales Nov 0.8% 0.6% 0.5%
Dec 13 08:30 Retail Sales ex-auto Nov 0.6% 0.5% 0.6%
Dec 13 10:00 Business Inventories Oct 0.9% 0.9% 0.0%
Dec 13 14:15 FOMC Rate Decision Dec 0.25% 0.25% 0.25%
Read more: http://www.briefing.com/investor/calendars/economic/2011/12/12-16/#ixzz1gPphIw9S
Ghost Dog
(16,881 posts)On a monthly basis, retail sales were up 0.2% from October to November (seasonally adjusted, after revisions), and sales were up 6.7% from November 2010...
... Retail sales excluding autos increased 0.2% in November...
... Retail sales are up 20.0% from the bottom, and now 5.5% above the pre-recession peak (not inflation adjusted)...
... This was below the consensus forecast for retail sales of a 0.5% increase in November, and a 0.4% increase ex-auto.
/... http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2011/12/retail-sales-increased-02-in-november.html (Charts at link)
Po_d Mainiac
(4,183 posts)About the only 'hot' selling item was
pepper spray
Ghost Dog
(16,881 posts)To support a stronger economic recovery and to help ensure that inflation, over time, is at levels consistent with the dual mandate, the Committee decided today to continue its program to extend the average maturity of its holdings of securities as announced in September. The Committee is maintaining its existing policies of reinvesting principal payments from its holdings of agency debt and agency mortgage-backed securities in agency mortgage-backed securities and of rolling over maturing Treasury securities at auction. The Committee will regularly review the size and composition of its securities holdings and is prepared to adjust those holdings as appropriate.
The Committee also decided to keep the target range for the federal funds rate at 0 to 1/4 percent and currently anticipates that economic conditions -- including low rates of resource utilization and a subdued outlook for inflation over the medium run -- are likely to warrant exceptionally low levels for the federal funds rate at least through mid-2013. The Committee will continue to assess the economic outlook in light of incoming information and is prepared to employ its tools to promote a stronger economic recovery in a context of price stability...
/... http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-09/statement-by-federal-open-market-committee-on-interest-rates-full-text.html
[em]Now, that's a tightly-controlled (and, credible? maybe, in the absence of real democracy) "message".[/em]
Pale Blue Dot
(16,834 posts)SINGAPORE – Oil prices hovered below $98 a barrel Tuesday in Asia amid expectations Europe's debt crisis will hurt the continent's economic growth and demand for crude.
Benchmark crude for January delivery was up 4 cents to $97.81 a barrel at midafternoon Singapore time in electronic trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange. The contract fell $1.64 to settle at $97.77 on Monday.
In London, Brent crude was down 2 cents at $107.24 on the ICE futures exchange.
Crude has slumped from $103 last month amid growing investor concern European leaders may be unable to prevent contagion from spreading from debt-ridden countries such as Greece and Italy.
http://old.news.yahoo.com/s/ap/oil_prices
xchrom
(108,903 posts)Two events made 1991 an unusually important year for global oil production and energy security. The Persian Gulf War, started when Saddam Hussein's Iraq invaded Kuwait in August, 1990, ended on February 28, 1991. In late December, the Soviet Union, whose territory held the largest proven oil reserves outside of the Middle East, collapsed.
U.S. dependence on imported oil had been growing for 30 years when the Soviet Union fell. The U.S. imported 40% of its oil in 1991; 54% of oil imports came from OPEC members and 24% from the Persian Gulf. The oil crises of 1973 and 1979, and the hardship they caused in the U.S., were still in American memories.. Energy dependence was viewed, much like today, as a vulnerability.
Since then, American energy security policy has focused on efforts to extricate U.S. energy dependence from the political volatility of the Middle East. As Winston Churchill had said in 1913, "Safety and certainty in oil lie in variety and variety alone." In practice, this has meant importing from friendly nations, increasing global supplies, and integrating oil into a single global market.
In the two decades since the fall of the Soviet Union, global oil production has increased from 66 million barrels per day to almost 87 million; much of that increase from Russia and the former Soviet Republics. This almost certainly wouldn't have happened without the fall of the Soviet Union. For example, enormous new oil fields of Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan were only developed once foreign investors and technology were allowed in to make it happen.
dixiegrrrrl
(60,154 posts)and that a year ago it was ...2.97.
Is 3.28 close to what folks are paying in your area?
And given the price of oil now, is that what the price "should be"?
hamerfan
(1,404 posts)for regular unleaded in my neck of the Midwest.
hamerfan
Pale Blue Dot
(16,834 posts)LONDON (MarketWatch) — U.S. stock futures edged higher on Tuesday after encouraging economic-sentiment data from Germany and ahead of the U.S. Federal Reserve’s announcement on monetary policy.
Futures on the Dow Jones Industrial Average DJ2H +0.50% climbed 60 points to 12,003 and those on the Standard & Poor’s 500 index SP2H +0.71% rose 7.10 points to 1,236.4.
Nasdaq 100 futures ND2H +0.62% gained 12 points to 2,302.5.
European stocks also gained Tuesday after the ZEW indicator of economic sentiment for Germany rose by 1.4 points to minus-53.8 in December, breaking a nine-month downward trend. ZEW President Wolfgang Franz said financial experts now expect economic activity to slow down but not plunge during the next six months.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-stock-futures-gain-fed-data-in-spotlight-2011-12-13?link=MW_latest_news
DemReadingDU
(16,002 posts)Hope to have time today to find a worthy posting
xchrom
(108,903 posts)
xchrom
(108,903 posts)The national interest. It's a phrase we've heard a lot recently. David Cameron promised to defend it before flying off last week to Brussels. Eurosceptic backbenchers urged him to fight for it. And when the summit turned into a trial separation, and the prime minister walked out at 4am, the rightwing newspapers took up the refrain: he was fighting for Britain. In the eye-burningly early hours of Friday morning, exhausted and at a loss to explain a row he plainly hadn't expected, Cameron tried again: "I had to pursue very doggedly what was in the British national interest."
As political justifications go, the national interest is an oddly ceremonial one. Like the dusty liqueur uncapped for a family gathering, MPs bring it out only for the big occasions. And when they do, what they mean is: forget all the usual fluff about ethics and ideas; this is important.
You heard the phrase last May, as the Lib Dems explained why they were forming a coalition with the Tories. More seriously, Blair used it as Britain invaded Iraq.
But here Cameron wasn't talking about foreign policy; nor about who governs the country. The national interest he saw as threatened by Europe is concentrated in a few expensive parts of London, in an industry that would surely come bottom in any occupational popularity contest (yes, lower even than journalists): investment banking.
xchrom
(108,903 posts)Italian bond rates are on the way up again. Spanish bonds are following in their wake. Among the credit rating agencies, Moody's says the eurozone deal last week was weak and added little to previous emergency summits. In its opinion, the eurocrats gathered for a lengthy chat and neglected to give any details for future action. Standard & Poor's is expected to strip France of its AAA status any day.
The market remains uneasy and for good reason. As my colleague Larry Elliott has already described, the EU is huddling closer together against the chill winds blowing from the debt markets with only a T-shirt and shorts for cover.
They need to buy themselves some winter warmers, but all the spare money in the kitty is going to pay debt.
It is a situation that calls for a war analogy and, as you might expect, war analogies are everywhere. Mostly, they relate to the second world war and the need for solidarity among European nations.
xchrom
(108,903 posts)European banks, under pressure from regulators to bolster capital, are selling some of their fastest-growing businesses to competitors from outside the region -- at the expense of future profit and economic growth.
Spain’s Banco Santander SA (SAN), Belgium’s KBC Groep NV (KBC) and Germany’s Deutsche Bank AG are accelerating plans to exit profitable operations outside their home markets. Santander, which said in October it needs to plug a 5.2 billion-euro ($6.9 billion) capital gap, sold its Colombian unit last week to Chile’s Corpbanca for $1.16 billion. Deutsche Bank is weighing options including a sale of most of its asset-management unit, while KBC may dispose of businesses in Poland.
Such sales risk hurting long-term profit, just as Europe enters recession, investors say. It’s the unintended consequence of the decision by European regulators to make banks increase core capital to 9 percent by June instead of 2019. Unwilling to raise equity because their share prices are too low, lenders are selling profitable assets because they’re struggling to find buyers willing to pay enough for their troubled loans to avoid a loss that would erode capital. Investors say the sales risk leaving banks focused on a stagnant economy and deprive them of economic growth from outside the region.
Demeter
(85,373 posts)before I give a fig for the banks' losing their profit centers. Wankers
xchrom
(108,903 posts)
and it was a goody!Demeter
(85,373 posts)"Wankers" is Tansy's contribution.
xchrom
(108,903 posts)she's a DUzy.
Tansy_Gold
(18,167 posts)Especially about me.
xchrom
(108,903 posts)
with you or miss demeter!
AnneD
(15,774 posts)however, they are not even getting a trim and yet the public is getting a Brazilian. OUCH!
xchrom
(108,903 posts) & as someone who waxes -- i concur -- OUCH.Ghost Dog
(16,881 posts)thing.
(I came across a display of photos of some of those very imaginitive little works of art a while ago. Now where was it)...
I support decapitation, in certain exemplary cases.
AnneD
(15,774 posts)what??? I am suprised Fudd hasn't posted those pics GD.
The joke that got Bob Hope kicked off the radio for 2 weeks in the early 40's.
The rationing is affecting everything, especially fabric. If skirts get any shorter, women will have 2 sets of hair to comb and 2 sets of lips to paint.
Mom was too young to understand at the time but the look on her grandparents face and the way they shut the radio off caused her to remember it. When Bob Hope came back on, he apologized to the audience.
It was the first riske joke Mom told me.
Ghost Dog
(16,881 posts)Especially as kids, we notice (and get curious, so we explore...) and don't forget.
Demeter
(85,373 posts)Now I have a reason why.
AnneD
(15,774 posts)My family was in the military (my Dad, brother, and myself). We have all missed one Christmas or another. It is one of the low points of any service time. The one bright spot was the USO tour, and Bob Hope was always there. How many Christmas Dinners did he and his band miss entertaining the troops. I know that he was always a target during Vietnam. They came close once but the VC hit one of the back up team. Security was tight. They never announced he was coming but security got so tight you always suspected he might be coming.
And he always made sure to have pretty girls and entertainment that the troops would like. Many a time we would watch the specials looking for Dad (we saw him once), or my brother (this was before internet). Often when we get togather, we still talk about those Christmases.
It is a nice tribute to him that the USO still has Christmas shows. Many celebrities still say that those tours with Bob were a highlight for them.
I didn't agree with him on some things but I appreciate his generous spirit.
xchrom
(108,903 posts)European stocks gained after German investor confidence unexpectedly increased and Spain sold more debt than planned at an auction. U.S. index futures rose before a report that may show American retail sales advanced.
The Stoxx Europe 600 Index added 0.5 percent at 7:25 a.m. in New York. Standard & Poor’s 500 Index futures jumped 0.6 percent. The yield on the Spanish two-year note fell 31 basis points to 4.16 percent. The 10-year Italian yield rose 11 basis points, after climbing as much as 19 basis points. Sugar, gasoline and aluminum led commodity gains.
The ZEW Center for European Economic Research in Mannheim, Germany, said its index of investor and analyst expectations increased to minus 53.8 in December from a three-year low of minus 55.2 the previous month. Spain sold 4.94 billion euros ($6.5 billion) of bills, more than the maximum target of 4.25 billion euros. Sales at U.S. retailers probably rose 0.6 percent last month, economists said before a Commerce Department report.
Ghost Dog
(16,881 posts)(Reuters) - Britain's veto of European Union treaty changes drew an embarrassed silence from London's financial heartland, where bankers fear last week's hardline stance will lead to a further loss of influence for the City.
Prime Minister David Cameron said he had vetoed the changes to allow countries that share the euro to pursue closer fiscal union because his EU partners would not give Britain enough freedom over how it regulates the City of London. But people working in London's financial industry denied Cameron's actions had been inspired by them and said they could ultimately damage the capital's position as a financial centre.
"This leaves us considerably worse off than we were before," said one City insider. "There is a very strong body of opinion, not all over Europe, but in many financial regulators, that Anglo-Saxon financial services have caused the crisis and therefore anything bad for us is good for them," this person said...
... Banks feared other EU countries would now start drawing up regulation without paying much heed to the City of London -- home to Europe's largest financial sector -- with the risk that this would fragment the continent's single market.
The UK is host to more branches of foreign banks than any other country worldwide, a third of those from the euro area. Around half of European investment banking activity is conducted in the UK, according to the CityUK lobby group.
/... http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/12/12/uk-banks-britain-eu-idUKTRE7BB1HZ20111212
Po_d Mainiac
(4,183 posts)As the TFB's move their used toilet paper (en masse) to Germany...
Sprechen Sie Deutsch?
Ghost Dog
(16,881 posts)et français un peut.
Almost all the middle-class Germans I meet around here in the islands speak excellent English (and, usually, good Spanish), though. They don't seem to have a problem with that (unlike so many Brits).
dixiegrrrrl
(60,154 posts)and Britain was feeling smug about it for quite a long time.
Cracks in the fissures, growing wider daily.
Ghost Dog
(16,881 posts)on the back of the tired, the poor, the huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of the teeming shore,
and still tries to maintain itself that way.
A terrible beauty was born.
xchrom
(108,903 posts)Qatar’s benchmark stock index declined the most in more than three weeks as emerging-market stocks fell after Fitch Ratings joined Moody’s Investors Service in warning that Europe faces lower credit ratings.
Industries Qatar QSC (IQCD), the Middle East’s second-biggest petrochemicals company, dropped to the lowest level this month. Qatar Telecom QSC (QTEL), the country’s biggest company by revenue, retreated the most since Nov. 28. Qatar’s QE Index (DSM) dropped 0.4 percent, the most since Nov. 21, to 8,763.78 at the 1 p.m. close in Doha. Abu Dhabi’s ADX General Index (ADSMI) lost 0.3 percent and the MSCI Emerging Markets Index fell as much as 1.1 percent.
Gulf Cooperation Council “markets are trading on a negative note tracking international sentiment,” said Samer Darwiche, an analyst at Gulfmena Investments in Dubai. Moody’s comments that the European summit “failed to produce decisive measures” is affecting sentiment, he said.
Stocks in Asia and the U.S. declined amid speculation that European credit ratings may be cut. Fitch Ratings and Moody’s said yesterday that a European Union summit last week offered little help in ending the region’s debt crisis. The Dow Jones Industrial Average fell 1.3 percent yesterday in New York.
Tansy_Gold
(18,167 posts)sort of
Demeter
(85,373 posts)the Kid and I are off to the dentist. And that's just for starters.
Ghost Dog
(16,881 posts)Huh, measured in Euros. 
Well, that's why I've been 90% in Sterling and CHF since a few weeks ago.
Wonder what's coming next... How to prepare...
Po_d Mainiac
(4,183 posts)Ghost Dog
(16,881 posts)Last edited Tue Dec 13, 2011, 06:09 PM - Edit history (2)
Yes, but. Those values are very pumped-up on not-very-well-guaranteed leveraged hot-air digital etf-type substitutes, which are also being manipulated...
If the shit is really hitting the fan now, and since my love-life and therefore all the rest of my previous life (28 years) has fallen apart, maybe definitively (I'm 57 now), I probably should be looking into getting my hands on at least a few of those 10-gram little bars of easily-negotiable fine gold. And since stealing is apparently now now morally (and, once you're rich, also in pratice legally) OK, that would be the way to go about it.
After all, Dillinger et Mort. E morto... What's that doing here ^^^?
Demeter
(85,373 posts)Been in the same leaky boat for 2 decades now...no time to patch it up.
Ghost Dog
(16,881 posts)And good communications, of course.
xchrom
(108,903 posts)Dec. 13 (Bloomberg) --　Japanese stocks fell, with the Nikkei 225 (NKY) Stock Average paring yesterday’s gains, after ratings companies said last week’s European summit did little to resolve the debt crisis that has roiled markets this year.
Sony Corp. (6758), Japan’s No. 1 exporter of consumer electronics, fell 2.6 percent. Hitachi Construction Machinery Co (6305), a Japanese machinery maker that counts China as the biggest market, slid 2.6 percent after Chinese housing sales dropped. Chip-related companies including Tokyo Electron Ltd. (8035) slid after bellwether Intel Corp. cut its sales forecast. Olympus Corp. rose for a third day on speculation the scandal-hit company won’t be delisted.
The Nikkei 225 declined 1.2 percent to 8,552.81 as of the 3 p.m. close in Tokyo. The broader Topix index lost 0.8 percent to 740.71. The broader gauge has all but wiped out yesterday’s gains as investors assess the impact of Europe’s fifth major agreement in 19 months aimed at ending the crisis.
xchrom
(108,903 posts)Asian stocks declined, with the regional gauge heading for its lowest close in two weeks, after Fitch Ratings joined Moody’s Investors Service in warning that Europe faces lower credit ratings.
Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group Inc. (8306), Japan’s largest lender by market value, fell 2.9 percent in Tokyo as the cost of insuring European debt rose toward a record. Advantest Corp. (6857) and other chip-related shares slid after bellwether Intel Corp. cut its sales forecast. BHP Billiton Ltd. (BHP), the world’s biggest mining company and Australia’s top oil producer, lost 1.9 percent after commodity prices fell.
“Asset prices, consumer sentiment and business conditions are all very dependent at the moment on a positive outcome from the euro situation,” said Angus Gluskie, who oversees about $300 million at White Funds Management in Sydney. “The euro nations are purely assuming an austerity agenda and they’re failing to consider the equally important aspect, which is to stimulate and encourage economic growth,”
xchrom
(108,903 posts)High up in a Manhattan conference room on Sunday, a group of investment gurus discussed Occupy Wall Street. Should they support a set of tough-sounding financial reforms just proposed on the campaign trail by presidential candidate Jon Huntsman? Or was it reasonable to demand even deeper reforms? "This isn't enough," argued Cathy O'Neil, a former hedge fund quant who organizes the group, a branch of Occupy Wall Street known as the Alternative Banking Group. She proposed that the gathering of financial experts come up with improvements to Huntsman's plan and present them to Occupy Wall Street's General Assembly. Another OWS supporter, whose day job involves consulting for private equity firms, looked up from his laptop and smiled. "That's an excellent idea!"
As unlikely as it may have seemed when protesters first descended on New York's financial center this fall, an increasing number of Wall Street insiders are now returning the favor, you might say, by occupying Occupy Wall Street. Sympathetic to the movement's critiques of the banking system, they've been quietly lending their expertise to Occupy efforts to develop real ideas for revamping the industry.
"What I want is to influence the conversation," says O'Neil, who worked for two years under Lawrence Summers, now the US Treasury Secretary, at the hedge fund D.E. Shaw. "It's about education and outreach and just the message that the financial system is too complicated—that you are not dreaming this."
Founded in early October by former British diplomat Carne Ross, the 60-person Alternative Banking Group has become a repository for OWS-friendly financial insiders. It includes current and former investment bankers, traders, and lawyers for the securities industry, but also many laymen—including housewives, people who used to sleep in Zuccotti Park, and guys with piercings who wear Che Guevara T-shirts. The group has shared Occupy Wall Street's website, its non-hierarchical structure, and its distaste for partisan politics. "I'd say the one thing that everybody agrees on is that the system isn't working," O'Neil says. "And there is nothing about being a Republican or a Democrat in that statement."
Lawrence Summers is not the US Treasury Secretary.
xchrom
(108,903 posts)
Ruby the Liberal
(26,620 posts)MoJo is a great organization. Just picking on them.
Hugin
(37,713 posts)Looking good. 
Hugin
(37,713 posts)Last edited Tue Dec 13, 2011, 12:20 PM - Edit history (2)
Here's my mea culpa. (Partially extracted from my long anticipated Magnum Opus to be followed by my Nobel Acceptance Speech.)
I believe that the DU Admins think that they are doing something nice and progressive for their community with DU3. Personally, I say... Yes (for the greater part) and No (to the lesser degree). More on this later...
Why is the SMW now located within the Economy & Education - Economy Group, you may ask.
It's like this;
1. Sunday, it became apparent that a changeover from DU2 to DU3 was immanent.
2. Due to the new Forum/Group structure of DU3 (If you look, there's only a few Forums and many Groups.) I unilaterally decided that a Group was the place to be. Sorry, about that. But, I didn't do it to hurt anyone. In fact, I believe that a Group is the safest place for the SMW to be given the current structure. There are 20 rotating hosts on each Forum. Each with the power to lock a Thread at their whim. You do the math on that... I will point out that for various reasons and I want to be crystal clear on this, NOT.EVERYONE.IS.A.FAN.OF.THE.SMW. Okay?
3. I posted a notice in the Host's Group (Because, somehow, I ended up as a Host on the Lounge Forum.) asking for input. On this post, I received TWO replies. None of which were very useful at all. So, I began cogitating on what to do. I was determined that there would be no break in the continuity of the long running SMW. Particularly, in the current Economic climate.
4. Due to the new filtering system on the Latest Threads page, I realized that where the SMW actually resided wasn't that imporant anymore. As long as it still recieved the support and recommendations it has long enjoyed. So, I set out to find a Group.
5. As luck would have it, I found the Economy Group. In which resided some of the former citizens of the DU2 Economy Forum. All, pretty cool. At the time I was looking, the Economy Group had no Host. (Not all Groups necessarily have a Host.) But, dixiegrrrl was in the process of becoming the Host. Having the SMW in a Group with an active Host is actually a GOOD thing. Particularly, a Host like dixie, who is ecstatic about having the SMW and it's usuals here in the Economy (Class... hahaha! Airline humor. Couldn't resist.) Group.
6. Knowing that there were tidal waves of problems on the horizon for the Admins with the changeover and the fate of the SMW was a very tiny blip on their screens. (If it even shows up at all.) It seemed the thing to do was to pick a spot to land. Using Fuddnik's advice about night crash landings. I decided to alight here in the Economy Group with the lights off.
Anyhow, that's what went down. If anyone wants to fight the politics of DU rather than the looming larger outside struggle. Feel free to crosspost into the new LBN. However, it's a battle I'm not feeling up to at the moment.
I want to thank everyone who found and recommended the lead SMW for Monday. Especially, Ghost Dog who left bread crumb trails everywhere to help the lost souls.
Why did I do anything at all? Well, transitions are difficult enough. So, I thought I’d do what I could to keep the SMW going and at the same time do what I could to lessen the impact of the transition on my friends.
(I'll bbl to correct the spelling errors.)
Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)Hugin
(37,713 posts)Given the situation, it seemed like the thing to do. 
Ghost Dog
(16,881 posts)La dixieg appeared to sprinkle a few breadcrumbs my way, in advance, too. Cool.
I've learned a lot from observing Spanish Anarchists operating somehow (and well) within this deeply corrupt and traditionally authoritarian Spanish context around here, over the years, btw.
Also... No. 'Nuff said.
As for night-landing, I'd usually recommend the early hours of a Monday morning outside vacation season if you ever feel the need (and have time to decide when) to make avail of the medical system in your area...
mrdmk
(2,943 posts)Hugin, you are right on so many levels. Personally, my way of dealing with office and family politics leaves a bad taste in people's mouths. That said, people who have a grip with SMW also have an agenda. These are same folks who were responsible for last year's purges. Now they are reinvigorated and have no qualms about saying so with impunity. CYA because nobody else can!
Oh well, I would told the good folks at LBN that the Stock Market is the Financial state of Public Corporations throughout the world i.e. The Latest News, not the world 'fucking' economy and opinions are there because of interpretations of Past/Present and predictions of the Future. Most people who have taken a Finance Class knows this. With that, some people have swallowed the kool-aid that the stock market is the economy and cannot be told other-wise. As stated before, I do not do well at the water-cooler.
Anyways, go forth and multiply. It is good to be seen in many dimensions.
Demeter
(85,373 posts)Thanks for stepping up, Hugin. I take back everything I ever said.
I hate change, did I mention that? Especially change I didn't want or need. You've made it easier, at least.
AnneD
(15,774 posts)SWT and WEE are not everyone's cup of tea. SWT and WEE appeals to those that base their ideas and thoughts in reality. There are and have been many a time when our thoughts and ideas do not jive with DEM mindspeak. Many of us knew where this ship of state was heading before it even left the dock. All you had to do was look at the crew the captian chose. Wheither the Dems want to face reality or not is their business. But if you want an honest broker and can handle the truth, this is the place. We praise them when they do good and whack them upside the head when they don't.
This placement amounts to hiding us in plain sight, which may be the best for us. Those that want to will seek us out. I like a certain amount of traffic, but I don't want any of our regulars getting tombstoned for having an honest differance of opinion with the party line. After all, we are not Republicans.
You can lie about many things, but you can't lie about a blance sheet and get away with it indefinantly.
dixiegrrrrl
(60,154 posts)From my point of view, what happened was a short discussion in this group, at the time, if people wanted it here, and folks said they did. Now you have explained why it came up at that point in time.
Your point about the ever changing Forum host rotation is worth noting.
Consistency can be a good thing, as you say.
Ghost Dog
(16,881 posts)(That's four "r"s, isn't it. grrr. r.).
imho, you have done, are doing, well, your majesty, maa'am.
:honest open smile with a strong sense of humor: <- icon missing
dixiegrrrrl
(60,154 posts)I am learning your sense of humor, seeing it else where.
emoticons DO help sometimes, will be glad when they are more accessible.
Ghost Dog
(16,881 posts)... And there must be millions, tens of millions, hundreds, thousands of millions in the world now or soon
feeling, grrrr.
Something has to change, one way or the other.
(btw, I'm above all (with academic qualifications) environmentalist. eg: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1127411#post51 ).
Hugin
(37,713 posts)Last edited Tue Dec 13, 2011, 09:57 PM - Edit history (2)
Now, I'm done.
On to more hilarious things... For instance, yesterday, when I was editing the SMW template ( Still not done. ) My smartphone insisted on seeing the Dow for that day as a "Contact" entry. No matter how many times and ways I tried to convince it otherwise it kept trying to get me to enter it in my Contacts.
Then.... Much to my horror. IT DIALED THE NUMBER AND SOMEONE ANSWERED!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
I was like, "Hello?"
and they were like, "Who is this?"
So, to whoever it was out there in the world who has a phone number corresponding to the Dow on December 9, 2011... I'm SO SORRY! :lol:
Ghost Dog
(16,881 posts).
bread_and_roses
(6,335 posts)- and I regret if they seemed to be. I, too, think you did the best you could - and I (like, it seems, most) was glad to find any sort of landing place at all amid the confusion.
Nor do I care to engage with the owners over anything. After all, they ARE the OWNERS (a good sort of Anarcho - Syndicalist such as I has to SHOUT that). And I did not donate - a very deliberate choice - nor will I subscribe, or whatever they are calling it. If I can't stand it, I'll leave. Simple. That does not preclude my having own opinion about the whys and wheres and wither it will all wend.
Demeter
(85,373 posts)By Wolf Richter, San Francisco based executive, entrepreneur, start up specialist, and author, with extensive international work experience. Cross posted from Testosterone Pit.
************************************
“I’m very happy with the result,” Chancellor Angela Merkel told the cameras on Friday morning as she climbed out the limo. She talked about the start of a stability and fiscal union and didn’t want to accept any “lazy compromises.” But the vague agreement that emerged may be illegal under European Union law and may devastate weaker economies. It elevated Germany to a leadership role that other countries perceive as domineering and arrogant. It can’t be put into a treaty. And by isolating the United Kingdom, it cut a deep gash into the EU—inflicting heavy collateral damage on the well-functioning 27-country free-trade area though it was aimed at the teetering 17-member Eurozone.
At its most fundamental level, the Eurozone has a nasty flaw: it allows member economies to become addicted to the crack cocaine of deficit spending without giving them a central bank that provides unlimited amounts of money to feed the habit. The Eurozone is the only major economy that has forbidden its central bank by law to print money to buy government debt. Goal: a currency that would retain its value. The Fed’s policy of stirring up inflation and devaluing the dollar is called Inflationspolitik in German, synonymous with government deception and theft. And Germany tried to make sure that the euro wouldn’t by hijacked by it.
But deficits spiraled out of control and debt piled up and the crisis arrived. Each summit that was supposed to solve the crisis once and for all by injecting confidence into the markets was followed by loss of confidence, chaos, and … another summit. Yet the problem remains un-fixed: economies addicted to crack cocaine without a central bank to feed the habit...Markets know that. All they want is for the ECB to turn on the printing press and buy unlimited amounts of Eurozone sovereign debt. It would cause a bout of inflation (30% – 50% over ten years, as it has in the US), devalue the currency, and demolish the purchasing power of the middle class as wages wouldn’t keep up with inflation. On Thursday, the ECB has come close with its announcement that it would lend unlimited amounts of money at near-zero interest rates for up to three years … to banks. But not countries. Inflationary risks may be similar, but it doesn’t violate the treaty. A solution that left some Greeks, whose salaries and pensions had been decimated, scratching their heads.
The agreement corresponds to Merkel’s demands:
The back door is already wide open. While each country is required to propose an essentially balanced budget, any major catastrophe or recession would allow it to run a large deficit—a matter of interpretation. No date has been set when the rules would go into effect. Maybe 2020, if Germany’s own new rules are any guide. It’s not a current fix.
MORE
Demeter
(85,373 posts)The Swiss government is preparing for a collapse of the euro, according to Swiss Finance Minister Eveline Widmer-Schlumpf. She told parliament that a work group was studying the imposition of capital controls and negative interest rates to protect Switzerland from the capital flight that a euro collapse would engender (Handelsblatt). A tidal wave of euros would drive up the Swiss franc, devastate Switzerland’s export economy, and devalue its vast wealth invested in other countries. Already in August, the Swiss National Bank instituted a currency peg and swore to defend it by acquiring “unlimited” amounts of euros, a risky strategy if the euro were to collapse (for the debacle leading up to the peg, read... Swiss Franc Wreaks Havoc In Switzerland)...“Europe has never been in so much danger,” said French President Nicolas Sarkozy a few hours before the summit (Le Figaro). He worried about “the risk that Europe will explode” and urged that an agreement be found because there were only a few weeks left to make the decisions. He called for more solidarity, more discipline, and more governance within the Eurozone. “An agreement on Friday is crucial,” he said. “We won’t have a second chance.”...But Angela Merkel’s fiscal-union dictate of belt-tightening and central control over budgets isn’t going down all that well elsewhere.
“I don’t have any support in Sweden for changing the treaty,” said Fredrik Reinfeldt, Prime Minister of Sweden upon his arrival in Brussels (Le Figaro). Sweden is one of the 27 EU members but not in the 17-member Eurozone. To contain the debt crisis, he proposed instead the reinforcement of existing bailout funds and more IMF involvement...“A new treaty can’t be imposed,” said Vivian Reding, Vice President of the European Commission (Le Figaro). Instead, measures should be implemented on the basis of existing treaties. She contended that Angela Merkel’s plan of centralized economic governance was “just a copy of the Stability Pact that France and Germany had torpedoed in 2003-2004. The mechanisms to contain the excesses that have led to this crisis existed for a long time but were never applied.”
Treaty changes require participation of the European parliament, the EU Commission, and all 27 national parliaments. Then the treaty must be ratified by all member states—by referendum in some cases. It would take years and could be derailed by the referendum of a single country. A less onerous alternative: treaty changes that would impact only the 17 Eurozone countries. Sweden, the UK, and other non-euro countries would not have to agree to the changes. It might speed up the timing a little, but if successful, if might split Europe in two: the Eurozone with iron-clad budgets in Merkel’s sense, and the remaining ten EU countries with no such restrictions.
A simplified procedure has been bandied about: decision by EU countries and ratification by member states. But even that takes time—at least one and a half years, according to an expert cited by the Handelsblatt—as national parliaments might not readily agree. But deep changes, such as outside control of national budgets, would require the normal procedure, rather then the simplified one. In addition, they might require constitutional changes in some countries, which would add to the uncertainty for years to come. Yet everything must be squared away by March, according to Merkel—a deadline, actually: Sarkozy may lose his job during the elections in April/May, and his potential successors to the left and to the right have vastly different ideas and might not bend as easily to Merkel’s will...
Tansy_Gold
(18,167 posts)Skinner suspects the reason for the shocking blue reply screen is that there's an HTML tag still open on the OP, which causes the reply screen to show up in bright, eye-searing blue.
Thanks.
TG
Ghost Dog
(16,881 posts)Last edited Tue Dec 13, 2011, 02:37 PM - Edit history (2)
Are you using M$ Explorer?
Here using Firefox the colors are ok, but the case is that this thread never stops loading. It gets stuck (with everything we need to see loaded) after saying (I translate from the Spanish) "Have read plusone.google.com", or something to do with "cdn.api.twitter.com" or some such.
I guess a hanging unclosed html tag in the OP or even in any post could be causing such glitches. As well as all the extraneous connections to diverse commercial (and, maybe not-so-commercial) outfits, that is.
Edit. Hmm. That gave me an idea (plusone, plusgood... twits and tuits...). But, the obvious domain in English is of course taken (and they don't seem to appreciate the irony): http://newspeak.com/
Hugin
(37,713 posts)I think something was broken when PBD cut/pasted the template out of the PM I sent.
I'll send him a warning PM.
Then I'm off for the evening here.
Hotler
(13,746 posts)Everytime I have been here I get a "Virtual memory low" pop-up.
Ghost Dog
(16,881 posts)(especially while "the user" does nothing).
Apart from just the usual M$ crap OS, that is.
Demeter
(85,373 posts)OR---BEWARE BEARDED FINANCIERS
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/12/11/a-romance-with-risk-that-brought-on-a-panic/
CORZINE
...Dozens of interviews reveal that Mr. Corzine played a much larger, hands-on role in the firm’s high-stakes risk-taking than has previously been known...An examination of company documents and interviews with regulators, former employees and others close to MF Global portray a chief executive convinced that he could quickly turn the money-losing firm into a miniature Goldman Sachs...
AND THERE WE HAVE IT, MOTIVE, MEANS AND OPPORTUNITY--FOR GOLDMAN TO PUT A HIT OUT ON CORZINE!
He pushed through a $6.3 billion bet on European debt — a wager big enough to wipe out the firm five times over if it went bad — despite concerns from other executives and board members. And it is now clear that he personally lobbied regulators and auditors about the strategy.
His obsession with trading was apparent to MF Global insiders over his 19-month tenure. Mr. Corzine compulsively traded for the firm on his BlackBerry during meetings, sometimes dashing out to check on the markets. And unusually for a chief executive, he became a core member of the group that traded using the firm’s money. His profits and losses appeared on a separate line in documents with his initials: JSC...The review of his tenure also sheds new light on the lack of controls at the firm and the failure of its watchdogs to curb outsize risk-taking. The board, according to former employees, signed off on the European bet multiple times. And for the first time it is now clear that ratings agencies knew the risks for months but, as they did with subprime mortgages, looked the other way until it was too late, underscoring how three years after the financial crisis, little has changed on Wall Street...
IT'S A DUZY OF A READ
Hotler
(13,746 posts)
westerebus
(2,978 posts)dixiegrrrrl
(60,154 posts)did you read where he did not even have an up to date broker's license AND when it was pointed out to him, he got all indignit-ty about even needing one, being so "special" and all that , ya know.
Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)So, all of that Black Friday nooz really was all the bullshit we suspected.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Best Buy's lower earnings raise holiday worries
By Chris Isidore @CNNMoney December 13, 2011: 8:47 AM ET
NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Electronics retailer Best Buy reported a large drop in quarterly earnings Tuesday, as weak sales raised worries about the strength of the holiday shopping season.
The company confirmed its full-fiscal year earnings guidance. But that wasn't enough to assure investors. Shares of Best Buy (BBY, Fortune 500) tumbled $2.19, or 7.8%, to $25.88 in pre-market trading. Shares are now down nearly 25% since the start of the year.
Domestic stores open a year or more reported sales growth of only 1%, a closely watched retail measure known as same-store sales. It was able to post that gain only with the help of mobile phone sales, which were up 9%.
The report came as the Commerce Department reported much weaker-than-expected overall retail sales, even as electronics and appliance stores reported a better gain than most other retailers.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/12/13/news/companies/best_buy_earnings/index.htm
DemReadingDU
(16,002 posts)I think I read somewhere that the 'Black Friday' hours extended from at least midnight Thanksgiving throughout the entire weekend. So yeh, more sales/money counted as 'Black Friday' profits.
Roland99
(53,345 posts)Roland99
(53,345 posts)MERKEL REJECTS RAISING UPPER LIMITS OF FUNDING FOR ESM BAILOUT MECHANISM -SOURCES IN RULING COALITION - RTRS
EURUSD at 1.3084...slightly up off the daily low.
Ghost Dog
(16,881 posts)Do these people have no "message-control" (I don't mean "spin", I mean agreeing on one collective message and sticking to it) at all?
(Charts: FXstreet.com (Barcelona) - http://www.fxstreet.com/ )
That sure is flight to USD "safety". How long will it last?
(Note: The Swiss National Bank certainly (thinks it) knows what it's doing...).
Demeter
(85,373 posts)...Last week a broad coalition of patient-focused groups launched its “I Am Essential” campaign in an effort to make sure that when all of us have to buy health insurance in 2014, we will be getting good value....When Congress passed the Affordable Care Act last year, it included a provision requiring that all health insurance plans sold a little more than two years from now must contain “essential health benefits.” It established 10 categories of required coverage: ambulatory patient services; emergency services; hospitalization; maternity and newborn care; mental health and substance use disorder services, including behavioral health treatment; prescription drugs; rehabilitative and habilitative services and devices; laboratory services; preventive and wellness services and chronic disease management and pediatric services, including oral and vision care. The Department of Health and Human Services has the responsibility of determining, with input from the respected nonprofit Institute of Medicine, just how comprehensive the coverage will have to be in each of those categories.
Insurers and employers who offer coverage to workers have been lobbying both the IOM and HHS to make the coverage requirements as narrow as possible. They want to continue marketing plans with skimpy benefits because they are less costly to employers and potentially more profitable to insurers. The problem with that approach, of course, is that millions of Americans will be forced to the join the ranks of the underinsured—already estimated at 30 million—if coverage they must buy is inadequate to meet their needs. That would not only be a nightmare for many American citizens but, I’m betting, for any politician who is on the record supporting “Obamacare.” If people find out that the coverage they have to buy is of limited value to them when they get sick, they’re not going to be very inclined to vote for Democrats come 2016, especially if insurance firms continue their long-running streak of record-setting profits.
I wrote last month that an insurance industry-backed group called the Essential Health Benefits Coalition had been formed to persuade Obama administration officials to consider “affordability” first and foremost—not comprehensiveness—as they flesh out the benefit requirements. As is typical of such industry groups, this one was set up and is being run out of a big PR firm, Ogilvy Washington. The budget for it is ample enough to pay the salary of its executive director and spokesman, Brendan Daly, a former aide to former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. In contrast, the “I Am Essential” coalition doesn’t have a budget. “Oh, no, no, we don’t have any money at all,” I was told by Carl Schmid, deputy executive director of The Aids Institute, one of the coalition members. “This is all pro bono.” Other members of the group, which last week sent a letter to HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, include the Lupus Foundation of America, the Men’s Health Network, Mental Health America, the National Association of Nutrition and Aging Services Programs and the National Minority Quality Forum. The only other action the coalition has taken so far is to send out a news release announcing the group and its letter to Sebelius. The letter pointed out that the organizations comprising “I Am Essential” serve many of the nation’s most vulnerable patient groups. “There are tens of millions of Americans who, like the people we advocate for, live with chronic disease and disability,” they told Sebelius. “We are writing to urge you to make certain that the Essential Health Benefits package fully meets the needs of American health care consumers, particularly those who have chronic health conditions… A benefit package too narrowly drawn runs the risk of not adequately covering patient needs.”
The group’s letter came a few days after another group of patient advocates—doctors and nurses—sent a letter to Sebelius making the same plea. Sent by Physicians for a National Health Program, a group that supports a single-payer health care system for the U.S., the letter also blasted the IOM panel for siding with the insurers suggesting that HHS consider affordability first. “We protest the Institute of Medicine’s recommendation that cost rather than medical need be the basis for defining the ‘essential benefits’ that insurance policies must cover,” the doctors and nurses wrote. “The IOM proposal would base the required coverage on the benefits typical of plans currently offered by small businesses – enshrining these skimpy plans as the new standard. These bare-bones policies come with a long list of uncovered services and saddle enrollees with unaffordable co-payments and deductibles… If adopted by the Department of Health and Human Services, this recommendation will sacrifice many lives and cause much suffering. We call on Secretary Sebelius and President Obama to reject them.”...
Demeter
(85,373 posts)...For reasons known only to themselves, officials in the Obama administration have spent more than a year trying to undercut these AGs. They're pushing a deal that would end their investigations before they're even completed and would immunize bankers from criminal prosecution.
Like the Security and Exchange Commission's notorious sweetheart deals, this Obama-backed settlement would let banks buy their way out of prosecution with a slap-on-the-wrist settlement of $20 billion-$25 billion. It would also create a phony refinancing program to make it look as if banks are doing something about the tragedies they've created by promising to refinance "as many as" 300,000 underwater mortgages (meaning the real number could be much smaller than that).
It's one more get-out-of-jail-free card for criminals on Wall Street...The social damage from this deal would be enormous. Consider:
-- and then repeated them again and again, 51 times!
mrdmk
(2,943 posts)(Reuters) - Washington Mutual Inc, the biggest bank to fail in U.S. history, said it reached a settlement in a dispute between shareholders and certain creditors that had prevented the bank from emerging from Chapter 11 bankruptcy proceedings.
WaMu got a respite late on Monday when it said in a court filing that the shareholders represented by an equity committee would drop legal claims against settlement noteholders.
"The Equity Committee and its advisors are pleased with the result and look forward to and support the swift confirmation of the plan," said Michael Willingham, chairman of the Equity Committee appointed in the Chapter 11 proceedings.
Washington Mutual has languished in Chapter 11 bankruptcy since regulators seized its savings and loan in September 2008.
link: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/wamu-settles-dispute-eyes-bankruptcy-072428889.html
Demeter
(85,373 posts)Nearly one American in six over the age of 65 lives in poverty. A newly progressivized Barack Obama is rocking the populist bandwagon from Osawatomie to the Oval Office. And the Republicans have started attacking Democrats on Social Security - from the left. This would be a good time for the President and other 'centrist' Democrats to offer the country a firm pledge not to cut Social Security benefits in any way, now or in the future.
Seniors in Poverty
Research teams working with the U.S. Census Bureau recently improved the government's approach to tracking poverty. They began including income from government programs - a request made by conservatives, but not an unreasonable one - adjusting for regional cost differences, and including medical care and other items that often get overlooked into their calculations...The revised figures showed that poverty in this country is greater than previously believed. And they showed that nearly twice as many Americans over 65 live in poverty than earlier figures had suggested - more than 15%, rather than the previously reported figure of 9%...Seniors are especially hard-hit by medical costs, despite the existence of Medicare. A study conducted by the Center for Retirement Research at Boston College showed that the average couple reaching age 65 in 2009 could expect to pay nearly $197,000 in out-of-pocket medical expenses. Medical care costs are rising much faster than general inflation. So are other costs, like transportation, that affect seniors and the disabled, Social Security's biggest pools of beneficiaries. That means elder poverty figures are likely to keep rising as these costs soar - and as the current cost of living adjustment for Social Security lags behind their actual living expenses.
The Cut of a Thousand Deaths
So why would so many Democrats, from Barack Obama to Dick Durbin, push a Social Security benefit reduction that would lower that cost of living adjustment even more? The " chained-CPI" is a terrible idea, a back-door cut to Social Security that would be both economically tragic for seniors and politically disastrous for anyone who supported it. Social Security Works calculated that under the chained-CPI "the average earner at age 45 who begins receiving disability benefits would get a $333 benefit cut at age 55, and a nearly $700 cut by age 65. By age 75 ... that person faces a loss of over $1,000, an 8.1 percent cut." The President said of this change, "Most folks would hardly notice."
(You can get a sense of how much you'd lose under this proposal, and then decide whether you'd notice.) Some of these Dems have also suggested raising the retirement age even further than it's scheduled to be raised. That's a benefit cut, too. Daniel Marans has been keeping score. He tracked the Democratic Social Security benefit-cutting action that began with the presidentially-appointed Deficit Commission,and picked up speed when Co-Chairs Alan Simpson and Erskine Bowles proposed benefit cuts of up to 41.5%. Then Democratic Senator Dick Durbin backed those cuts, 14 Democratic Senators signed a letter backing Simpson and Bowles, and Democratic Sen. Mark Pryor demanded that Social Security reductions be "on the table" in deficit talks- even though Social Security is forbidden by law from contributing to the deficit...No wonder Democrats lost nearly all of the 28-point polling advantage on Social Security they enjoyed in late 2006. These maneuvers created a situation where, at the beginning of this year, Obama was less trusted than Bush on this hot-button issue!
MORE
Demeter
(85,373 posts)The public is being kept in the dark about the viability of solar photovoltaic energy, according to a study conducted at Queen’s University. “Many analysts project a higher cost for solar photovoltaic energy because they don’t consider recent technological advancements and price reductions,” says [co-author] Joshua Pearce, Adjunct Professor, Department of Mechanical and Materials Engineering. “Older models for determining solar photovoltaic energy costs are too conservative.”
Dr. Pearce believes solar photovoltaic systems are near the “tipping point” where they can produce energy for about the same price other traditional sources of energy. That’s the news release for a new journal article, “A review of solar photovoltaic levelized cost of electricity” (subs. req’d). The analysis concludes:
That argument is one Climate Progress and others have been making for a while (see ‘Ferocious Cost Reductions’ Make Solar PV Competitive and Utility CEO on Solar: In “3 to 5 Years You’ll Be Able to Get Power Cheaper from the Roof of Your House Than From the Grid”.)...
Analysts look at many variables to determine the cost of solar photovoltaic systems for consumers, including installation and maintenance costs, finance charges, the system’s life expectancy, and the amount of electricity it generates.
Dr. Pearce says some studies don’t consider the 70 per cent reduction in the cost of solar panels since 2009 . Furthermore, he says research now shows the productivity of top-of-the-line solar panels only drops between 0.1 and 0.2 percent annually, which is much less than the one per cent used in many cost analyses.
Equipment costs are determined based on dollars per watt of electricity produced. One 2010 study estimated this cost at $7.61, while a 2003 study set the amount at $4.16. According to Dr. Pearce, the real cost in 2011 is under $1 per watt for solar panels purchased in bulk on the global market, though he says system and installation costs vary widely.
(Chart from Emanuel Sachs of MIT. Note: Even this data is already two years old.)
bread_and_roses
(6,335 posts)an article Demeter posted yesterday in case anyone who might read it missed it - it is very good
(without the little guide I don't know how to indent, so am not going to quote any - just title and link:
"Europe’s Deadly Transition From Social Democracy to Oligarchy
Courtesy of MICHAEL HUDSON"
http://www.philstockworld.com/2011/12/10/europe%E2%80%99s-deadly-transition-from-social-democracy-to-oligarchy/
Hotler
(13,746 posts)Roland99
(53,345 posts)
Turbineguy
(39,946 posts)with the amount of money I've lost.
Again.
sarcasmo
(23,968 posts)The stock market watch is harder to find.