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eridani

(51,907 posts)
Sun Jan 15, 2012, 08:25 AM Jan 2012

Why not cramdowns instead of another bankster rescue?

http://www.readersupportednews.org/opinion2/279-82/9429-the-foreclosure-crisis-a-government-in-denial

The challenges faced by the U.S. housing market today reflect, in part…a persistent excess supply of homes on the market; and losses arising from an often costly and inefficient foreclosure process (and from problems in the current servicing model more generally)… Absent any policies to help bridge this gap, the adjustment process will take longer…pushing house prices lower and thereby prolonging the downward pressure on the wealth of current homeowners and the resultant drag on the economy at large.


This memo is notable for several reasons. First, it's important to remember that when the Fed speaks, it does so in sober, limited terms. So an unprompted Fed warning suggesting "a persistent excess of supply" and a "resultant drag on the economy" is comparable to the Secretary of Homeland Security holding a press conference to warn of the risk of an imminent national emergency. Second, an unprompted memo from Bernanke to the House means that he is so deeply worried he felt the need to speak out in as strong a voice as his position permits. Third, the Fed rarely speaks on issues unrelated to its direct activities. Indeed, The Wall Street Journal subsequently wrote, "For an institution that jealously guards its independence, the Federal Reserve is wading into treacherous political waters."

<snip>

There is also a far worse possibility. Today, an estimated 29 percent of all homes with mortgages are underwater. In addition, at least one respected analyst estimates that a total of 14 million homes will be foreclosed on from 2007 to the end of the crisis. This represents a hard-to-imagine one in every four mortgages. With foreclosures increasing, there is now such a looming imbalance of supply and demand that, as the Fed notes, further decreases in home prices are likely. Some believe home price reductions of another 20 percent are likely. This would, in all likelihood, have disastrous consequences on at least three fronts — and ripple effects that are impossible to predict.

What is shocking is the almost total lack of attention the administration has paid to suffering homeowners. It's hard for me (and apparently Chairman Bernanke) to understand how the administration can possibly hope to revitalize the economy without seriously addressing the overhang of consumer housing debt. Moreover, the failure to address the risk this poses for a broader economic catastrophe borders on the inexcusable.

If President Obama is serious about saving the middle class and reducing income inequality, the administration needs to be far more aggressive in developing policies to keep homeowners as homeowners. As I have written before, this was one of FDR's central goals in the New Deal. Detailed proposals for addressing this extraordinary risk do exist. However, they will require a determined effort. There are solutions, but they are not simple.


http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/279-82/9439-the-foreclosure-to-rental-screwjob

And, why - in heaven's name - would congress want to take on more risk when they can keep millions of people in their homes by simply reducing the principle on their mortgages to the present value of the house? (aka - "Cramdowns&quot Naturally, the losses would have to be absorbed by the banks who - by everyone's admission - were responsible for the present crisis due to their lax lending standards and, oftentimes, fraudulent behavior. This would lead to a restructuring of the country's biggest banks through a Resolution Trust Corporation (RTC) so their toxic assets and backlog of foreclosed properties can be auctioned off as soon as possible.

This is a straightforward way to fix the housing market and it should have been done long ago. Bernanke's solution is not only unreasonable, it's also deceitful. Here's more from the Fed's paper: "Continued weakness in the housing market poses a significant barrier to a more vigorous economic recovery"..(without action)…"the adjustment process will take longer and incur more deadweight losses, pushing house prices lower and thereby prolonging the downward pressure on the wealth of current homeowners and the resultant drag on the economy at large."


"Since the Fed started buying $1.25 trillion of mortgage bonds in January 2009, the value of U.S. housing has fallen 4.1 percent, and is down 32 percent from its 2006 peak, according to an S&P/Case-Shiller index. The central bank is poised to buy about $200 billion this year, or more than 20 percent of new loans, as it reinvests debt that's being paid off. Some Fed officials have said they may support additional purchases that Barclays Capital estimates could total as much as $750 billion."

Did you catch that? Taxpayers are going to get slammed for another $750 billion. That's nearly as much as Obama's American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA), the fiscal stimulus that added 2 percent to GDP and kept unemployment from rocketing to 13 percent. Bernanke wants to throw that same amount down a Wall Street sinkhole.
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Why not cramdowns instead of another bankster rescue? (Original Post) eridani Jan 2012 OP
Get the facts straight - taxpayers aren't paying 750 billion Yo_Mama Jan 2012 #1
Investing 3 trillion and getting 77 billion is not a lot of money. It's less than 3%. mbperrin Jan 2012 #2
That was just for one year, and all expenses are paid out of earnings. Yo_Mama Jan 2012 #4
The 3 trillion figure came from YOUR original link. mbperrin Jan 2012 #7
But that money doesn't come from taxpayers Yo_Mama Jan 2012 #10
I wanted to make another comment on the global problem Yo_Mama Jan 2012 #12
Several things Sam1 Jan 2012 #16
You mean spending is not limited when you have a sovereign currency, not debt, right? Yo_Mama Jan 2012 #18
I ment what I said. Sam1 Jan 2012 #20
Are you aware that the banks are still "borrowing" from the Fed - truedelphi Jan 2012 #8
That's not borrowing from the Fed Yo_Mama Jan 2012 #11
Call it what you want but William Black and Allan Grayson wouldn't truedelphi Jan 2012 #13
First of all, it looks to me, like Sam1 Jan 2012 #17
As many others here probably know, truedelphi Jan 2012 #21
Cherry pick much? westerebus Jan 2012 #19
How do cramdowns and mass bank liquidations fix anything? dkf Jan 2012 #3
You can't make mortgage loans when rates are this low. Yo_Mama Jan 2012 #5
You run into non-warrantable condos? dkf Jan 2012 #6
Condos can be a real mess Yo_Mama Jan 2012 #9
Are condos a small enough % that the real estate market can be fixed without it? dkf Jan 2012 #14
It depends on your area Yo_Mama Jan 2012 #15

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
1. Get the facts straight - taxpayers aren't paying 750 billion
Sun Jan 15, 2012, 11:09 AM
Jan 2012

As earlier mortgages are paid off, the Fed ends up with a lot of loose cash on its balance sheets. It has been and will be reinvesting some in more mortgage bonds.

So far the Fed has made a lot of money off its ops and is in fact paying the taxpayers dividends. They just paid the Treasury 77 billion:
http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/fed/story/2012-01-10/federal-reserve-pays-treasury-77B-in-2011/52482722/1

Let's not post nonsense here.

All central banks have a portfolio of securities, and usually that is concentrated in sovereign bonds. They have to have them; selling and buying is one way they control various aspects of the monetary system. Recently the Fed greatly expanded its purchases.

Central banks are BANKS. The essential business of banks is investing money on deposit for higher interest rates than the deposits command. Right now the Fed has a ton of money on deposit at very low rates, because regular banks don't have much else to do with their excess. So the Fed can make a lot of money buying mortgage bonds that pay low, because what matters to the Fed is the difference between what they have to pay for money versus what they can get by investing that money.

One of the Fed's strategies has been to keep interest rates very low to make homes more affordable, and to make the cost of funding our public debt more affordable. It is working - mortgage rates are remarkably low.

mbperrin

(7,672 posts)
2. Investing 3 trillion and getting 77 billion is not a lot of money. It's less than 3%.
Sun Jan 15, 2012, 12:50 PM
Jan 2012

Not working when 25% of all mortgages will eventually be foreclosed.

Thank god I've had no dealings with banks and their minions since 1978. I spent a decade working for the bastards, paid attention, and found out that I could do much better without them than with them.

Never been sorry.

Citi is paying .2% on a market account to a friend of mine. Wow.

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
4. That was just for one year, and all expenses are paid out of earnings.
Sun Jan 15, 2012, 01:54 PM
Jan 2012

They are doing at least as well as most of the US banking industry:


If you have to be a banker, it's wise to be a central banker. You set the rules so it is easy to make money.

Every year the Fed pays Treasury. It's been growing very significantly due to the expanded Fed role. There is no possibility that they will take any sort of loss other than a duration/rate loss on almost all the MBS, because it's government-guaranteed stuff.

If you think the taxpayers put 2.9 trillion into the Fed, you need to read the Fed financial statements. This is the one for 2007/2008:
http://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/files/BSTFRcombinedfinstmt20072008.pdf

Start with this one, because 2007 was before the rumpus started. Note that bank deposits increased to 860 billion in 2008 from 20.7 billion in 2007. They have from Treasury approximately an additional 250 billion.

You can follow the changes through 2009/2010 on the Fed balance sheet:
http://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/files/BSTcombinedfinstmt2010.pdf

Treasury has done quite well off its Fed bank deals.

mbperrin

(7,672 posts)
7. The 3 trillion figure came from YOUR original link.
Sun Jan 15, 2012, 03:39 PM
Jan 2012

"All the Fed's efforts have pushed the central bank's balance sheet to $2.9 trillion, more than three times the size of the balance sheet before financial crisis struck in the fall of 2008."

Please don't both cite and then impeach your own source.

Right now, banks are subsidized. They are allowed to borrow money at near zero from the Fed and then allowed to buy Treasury bonds paying a multiple of that borrow rate.

Banks are the biggest obstacle to real economic growth worldwide right now.

That's because they got mixed up about what banking is. And that's why I don't bank and I encourage all my students to do the same.

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
10. But that money doesn't come from taxpayers
Sun Jan 15, 2012, 07:59 PM
Jan 2012

There's a huge difference.

As to your other points - when the crisis hit, the Fed provided liquidity by opening up the discount window, and indeed pushing loans on banks. But total bank borrowings are almost nil, banks paid back that money ASAP because it was hugely costly and they couldn't place it, and bank deposits at the Fed have steadily grown ever since. H.4.1 shows 1.58 trillion of bank deposits, on which banks are earning almost nothing, which is why depositors are earning very little. The term deposit facility is paying 25 basis points, and the rate paid on excess reserves is the same:


Banks have no reason to borrow money from the Fed, so they are not. Find those huge borrowings on the Fed balance sheet and get back to me:
http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h41/Current/

Remember, duration risks have to be managed by banks. Banks can hold their true reserves in Treasuries, but they cannot possibly afford to buy much in the way of shorter term treasuries to place borrowed money for profit because returns are low. As of the 13th, to get a yield above 34 basis points you had to go to the five year treasury, and the 5 was only yielding 80 basis points.

Duration risks prevent banks from doing what you are suggesting. They do not have deposits on long terms. Banks always borrow short and lend long, but with interest rates at historical lows, banks would go bankrupt if they bought long term treasuries with short-term deposits at rates that are going to rise in the future. The Fed discount rate is currently 75 basis points. Is anyone going to make money borrowing from the Fed at 75 basis points (0.75%) - that's the overnight rate - and buying US 7 year Treasuries at 0.8%? Not only don't you make money NOW, but if that rate rises in 2014, you are going to lose big time.

What do you teach? Do you know what duration (rate) risk is? You don't seem to know what is currently going on in the US banking system.

Banks are subsidized. But the real subsidy comes from FDIC deposit insurance, for which in effect depositors pay.

As far as banks being the greatest obstacle to world growth, I think you are wrong on that point. The problem is that every society has a maximum borrowing limit. Most of the world went on a multi-decadal borrowing binge, and this is the result. In countries (such as Spain, Dubai, areas of the US, Ireland) in which the borrowing was used to fund bubbles, of course the crash is worse. China's sitting on a hell of a mess in local government borrowing.

Ask yourself why countries as diverse as Denmark, Canada and Australia have all been worrying about household debt? Those countries have healthy economies and slowing growth, and it is because borrowing has reached the point at which it is an economic drag.

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
12. I wanted to make another comment on the global problem
Sun Jan 15, 2012, 08:57 PM
Jan 2012

In a lot of ways, we are in a Misean super-cycle caused by unbridled Keynesianism. Monetary looseness works in the short term only when debts in the economy are below a certain point. If debt is very low, easing money produces large growth. If debt is moderate, easing money produces moderate growth. If debts are high, easing money does very little.

So while bad/excess debt is a problem, the reason why we got here is largely a result of central bank laxness. Your local credit union is not responsible for world global cycles, and it can only calibrate its lending based on what it sees in the marketplace.

Growth almost solely funded by debt has produced a global excess of buying, and it's easiest to see when you look at US car sales:


The primary reason that we have such low car sales now is that consumers bought so many vehicles during the prolonged period of cheap money that extended from the end of the dot.com bubble through the beginning of the GR in 2006 (when industrial activity began to drop).

There are plenty of people with money, but most of them just don't need new cars yet. Then there are people without money who do need cars, but new car sales are still suppressed, so they have trouble getting used cars. That one graph sums up an awful lot about the world economy. Growth in consumer spending in economies with pretty low debt loads and decent average household real incomes is still quite good, but as energy costs rise the net spending propensity worldwide is dropping because real incomes are dropping.

The problem with a Misean supercycle is that it cannot be addressed by Keynesian monetary techniques once accumulated debt has reached a saturation point. So then the governments tried to step in with more direct measures, but that requires governments accumulating more debt, and many of those governments were already close to or very near to their own debt carrying capacity.

There is no really easy way out of this - it's something that only the passage of time can really amend. In the US, we built more homes than we really needed, and we sold a ton of cars, and now even if we wiped out all consumer debts overnight, we wouldn't be manufacturing cars and building houses at 2005 levels, because the economy just doesn't need them.

Sam1

(498 posts)
16. Several things
Mon Jan 16, 2012, 04:41 PM
Jan 2012

You (Yo_Mama) state; " So then the governments tried to step in with more direct measures, but that requires governments accumulating more debt, and many of those governments were already close to or very near to their own debt carrying capacity."

Please explain how the United States Government has a limit to the amount of debt that it can carry given that it is sovereign in its currency and that currency is freely floating against other currencies? So given that the government debt of the United States is denominated in dollars, which the federal government can create merely by spending, how can the U.S. Govenment ever be insolvent with respect to debts denominated in its own currency?

Please do not sight any of the European Nations that are in so much trouble because the are not sovereign in thier currency. They can not create the Euro's that their debt is denomonated in. Those governments must get Euro's from someplace, i.e. taxes, rather then create it as the U.S. Government does.

And where can I find out more about misean supercycles?



Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
18. You mean spending is not limited when you have a sovereign currency, not debt, right?
Mon Jan 16, 2012, 07:45 PM
Jan 2012

If not I don't really understand your question. Spending replaces debt, doesn't it? Isn't that your implication? Of course any nation, whether it has a sovereign currency or not, has a limit of debt it can carry.

Please answer, because I'm afraid I might be missing something.

As to the Misean supercycle:

The Misean definition of a business cycle is somewhat different than either Keynesian or classical. The Wiki definition might be of help - I find it rather obtuse.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_business_cycle_theory
It's worth noting that while Paul Krugman doesn't think much of the Austrians, Krugman also confessed that current mainstream economics failed to predict the 2008 disaster.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/06/magazine/06Economic-t.html?pagewanted=all
He's right - but he hasn't quite yet come to grasp with the fundamental failure of the Keynesian model to address our current, nearly global, plight.

The Austrian school, and in particular von Mises, put more stress on the effect that monetary easing and contraction had on business production cycles and consumption cycles, as opposed to the Keynesian skew to focus on the demand side. IMO the Austrians and Keynes were looking at different pieces of the same thing, because both were really pragmatists as opposed to the current crop of castle-in-the-sky economists. The Wiki page on Keynes is decent:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_economics


A supercycle in economics is usually currently discussed in terms of commodities -
http://www.trumarkets.com.au/market-analysis-commodities-super-cycle/

A super-cycle is a much longer cycle than the norm, because strongly supported by invariant circumstances which form steady inputs sans violent interruption. A supercycle forms because the usual negative and positive feedback inputs that control cycles are overwhelmed by one or two particular inputs that are just pushing one way very strongly. The supercycle is not just longer but has a higher amplitude (the change from beginning to end is much larger than the norm).


Sam1

(498 posts)
20. I ment what I said.
Thu Jan 19, 2012, 06:37 AM
Jan 2012

As long as the currency is sovereign and freely floating a government can carry astronomical levels of debt as long as that debt is denomonated in its currency. A good example is Japan with public debt of approx. 200% of GDP where there is realitive price stability and low unemployment.

So what is this carrying capacity as a % of GDP?

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
8. Are you aware that the banks are still "borrowing" from the Fed -
Sun Jan 15, 2012, 06:08 PM
Jan 2012

In their usual circuitous configurations?
See the following --
Bank of America Derivatives Transfer Draws Lawmaker ... - Bloomberg
Oct 27, 2011 ... Congressional Democrats are asking regulators whether they explored possible
risks connected to Bank of America Corp.'s moving of ...

http://www.bloomberg.com/.../bank-of-america-derivatives-transfer-attracts-lawmaker-scrutiny.html


You act like we can trust the banks and golly gee miss molly, the banks are so squeaky clean that every day the Federal Reserve wakes up with new monies paid back.

Follow the real stories and you will see a much different picture.

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
11. That's not borrowing from the Fed
Sun Jan 15, 2012, 08:40 PM
Jan 2012
Congressional Democrats are asking regulators whether they explored possible risks connected to Bank of America Corp. (BAC)’s moving of derivatives from Merrill Lynch into its deposit-taking unit after a credit downgrade.


BAC moving those derivatives (if there are large losses) from ML to its commercial banking op could carry a potential risk to the FDIC, which ultimately could cause higher costs for taxpayers. Depending on what's in that portfolio, the concern could be well-grounded or theoretical, but even if losses are unlikely the question of whether bank holding companies should be allowed to do this remains a good one.

As for the Fed, the reality is that it isn't lending money to banks. Banks are lending money to it.

Seriously, look at the Fed balance sheet and show me where in its assets these big loans to banks are:
http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h41/Current/

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
13. Call it what you want but William Black and Allan Grayson wouldn't
Mon Jan 16, 2012, 01:54 AM
Jan 2012

Be having semi heart attacks over who is running the Federal Reserve, (and who is running the Treasury,) if the money from the Federal Reserve had not been loaned out in huge chunks, with the audit showing as much as fourteen trillions of dollars going to the Elite of the Banking Crowd around the world.

And the "paybacks" or collateral are absolutely the worst pile of "investment papers" a person can imagine.

Sam1

(498 posts)
17. First of all, it looks to me, like
Mon Jan 16, 2012, 04:56 PM
Jan 2012

the the supplied link is only a portion of the fed balance sheet not the whole thing and I think the subsidies to the banks are in the maiden lane accounts.

Where is the cash account?

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
21. As many others here probably know,
Sat Jan 21, 2012, 04:20 PM
Jan 2012

But I had to look it up, the following is extremely pertinent

from the Federal Reserve website off its own web pages:

Table 1A. Memorandum Items

Table 1A presents selected items that do not directly affect the Federal Reserve's assets and liabilities but are related to important roles that the Federal Reserve plays. The Federal Reserve Bank of New York acts as a custodian in holding securities on behalf of foreign official and international institutions. Market participants often look for trends in these data to gauge foreign demand for U.S. Treasury and agency securities. This table also presents information on the securities lent by the Federal Reserve under its securities lending programs. As noted in more detail in Lending to primary dealers, the Federal Reserve lends securities from its portfolio of Treasury securities and federal agency debt securities to foster efficient and liquid trading in the market for these securities. When securities are lent, they continue to be listed as assets of the Federal Reserve because the Federal Reserve retains ownership of the securities."


So basically we have some semantics here. Many who support everything that happens in this nation, as long as it happens at the behest of someone with a supposed "D" after their name (Though I don't know that Geithner or Bernanke are really Dems) will argue that putting up the Federal Reserve money as securities to the Biggest Banks doesn't count as a loan.

But the fact of the matter is that once the Biggest Banks lose the money they are fond of placing into exotic trades, they will certainly have no reservations about glomming on to those security funds. Of course, with the exception of people like Kucinich, Ron Paul, Grayson and one or two others, no one seems to talk about this out loud. The American middle class is now so firmly entrenched in fear and exhaustion, they no longer can think straight.

So sins that our fathers and mothers' generation would have never let come to pass are continuing.

westerebus

(2,976 posts)
19. Cherry pick much?
Mon Jan 16, 2012, 11:36 PM
Jan 2012

There is not a lot of "loose cash" on the FED balance sheet when you compare it to all the toxic CDO's MBS and assorted trash they hold as collateral from the banks that caused the crisis in the first place. The last time the FED went to the market to offload a portion of its "portfolio of securities" the market response was a no thank you, but keep the checks coming.

Do the following programs have anything in common? TARP TALF POMO QE1 QE1.5 QE2 Why yes, yes they do. The largest bank bail out in recorded history.

The fact that the FED paid Treasury $77 billion underlines the amount of investment the FED has to do to keep the market liquid.

The amount the FED returns to treasury is much lower on a normal basis. But, these aren't normal times. Which is why the FED invests in member banks and provides them with low interest loans to keep them above the waterline.

The FED created the reserves it has to recapitalize the banks that were insolvent. Tier 1 Capital requirements can really be a pain in the ass for banks. Now had the banks not engaged in fraud on such a massive scale and leveraged themselves beyond the hilt, the crisis, the great recession, could have been avoided.

Then again, FED policy of easy money under Greenspan was too much of a good thing for them. Like a five year old with a gallon of ice cream, a spoon and no parent in sight. We all know how that works out.

So all this low interest rate poor banking industry can't make money nonsense is nonsense.

They are corrupt. They need to be prosecuted. They need to be regulated and held accountable.

 

dkf

(37,305 posts)
3. How do cramdowns and mass bank liquidations fix anything?
Sun Jan 15, 2012, 01:23 PM
Jan 2012

The problem as I see it is banks won't lend out any of their own funds. They just want to act as loan originators for Freddie and Fannie.

We need them to start loaning more, not make them insolvent by forcing them to take cramdowns. It's the financing that is screwed up and keeping the housing market in the doldrums.

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
5. You can't make mortgage loans when rates are this low.
Sun Jan 15, 2012, 02:24 PM
Jan 2012

Only to gold credit, and then it has to be to super-high-equity borrowers or the loans have to be variable rate mortgages to good credit borrowers with substantial equity (because when rates rise, you'll get stuck if the borrower can't pay the higher interest rate and can't refinance elsewhere).

You can't write normal mortgages low enough to compete with the GSEs. You can write jumbos that don't qualify for GSE financing, but even then, the duration risks are so extreme that you have to demand a lot of money on the table plus good credit.

Banks can only lend more to commercial accounts - all variable or short-term - and a little bit more to consumers, but consumers on average are cutting their debt. A lot of us are old and looking to retirement, and with savings returns so low, the best return on their capital consumers can get is to pay down their debt. So the lending demand is very low, except for prospective borrowers on whom you stand a very high chance of losing money over 5 years.

The Fed deliberately created this situation to help with cash flow for mortgagees, but this is the logical result.

That's why there is so much bank money on deposit at the Fed.

Bank deposits in the US are up hugely, but there's no way for banks to place the money out, so much of it is at the Fed. By 2010 the banks had 968 billion on deposit at the Fed - now:


As long as mortgage rates are so low that banks can't lend safely, they won't. Velocity of money is very low because prospective borrowers can't afford to borrow and lenders can't afford to lend to prospective borrowers.


So we have tons of money sitting inert in the system - as production has picked up, C&I has improved but that's pretty much it:

 

dkf

(37,305 posts)
6. You run into non-warrantable condos?
Sun Jan 15, 2012, 02:59 PM
Jan 2012

It's not just the borrower that has to be in excellent shape, it's also the association, and mixed use condos are a no no. I don't know where you live but where I am there are a LOT of condos and townhouses and the process is ridiculous.

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
9. Condos can be a real mess
Sun Jan 15, 2012, 07:06 PM
Jan 2012

Creditors tend to lose more money on coop housing than single-family when RE deep sixes.

The HOA deficits can put a condo association under when a lot of units are unoccupied/not-paying. After a while it's impossible to sell vacant units.

From a lender standpoint, if enough of the units are rented/vacant/in arrears, the condo buyer you may be lending to might suddenly get his/her total housing payment jacked way up to unaffordable levels. And there's nothing the creditor can do to fix it, and the risks you take in variable rate lending are tripled. That's why they are being so cautious now.

There's less residual value in a condo than single-family when that happens.

 

dkf

(37,305 posts)
14. Are condos a small enough % that the real estate market can be fixed without it?
Mon Jan 16, 2012, 09:42 AM
Jan 2012

Edit to add that townhouses are also affected. Because our land is limited on an island, we have a whole lot of properties that fall into these categories not to mention that many of our houses are jumbos.

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
15. It depends on your area
Mon Jan 16, 2012, 10:55 AM
Jan 2012

RE really is local, except when overly exuberant central bankers find a way to correlate performance through credit. Now that the Yippee$$!! factor has mostly been knocked out, we return to fundamentals.

If the island is resort/retirement, you have to look at insurance history, property tax trajectory and affordability to the next wave of buyers. If residents are more local, then you look at your local demographics.

Two wild cards are local finances and storm/flood insurance problems. High property tax markets are going to inflict years of continued RE price declines in some areas. NJ comes to mind. Then you take areas of Florida, and the major problem for many homeowners is property insurance.

If there hasn't been a ton of recent development (post-2003) and there are decent vacancy ratios still, you might be okay if the property tax/insurance is okay. If you have high vacancies and tax/insurance problems, it's very problematic.

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