Is College Still Worth the Investment?

[Modern School]

Half of all recent college graduates are currently unemployed or underemployed in low wage jobs unrelated to their training, the San Jose Mercury News reported this week. Roughly 1.5 million, or 53.6%, of those under the age of 25 with bachelor's degrees were jobless or underemployed. This is the highest rate in more than a decade.

While it is true that average wages are higher and unemployment lower overall for those with college degrees, the type of degree and its cost are becoming more and more significant, particularly for recent graduates who are facing a dismal job market and skyrocketing debt. With average student debt of more than $20,000 and the dearth of decent-paying jobs, college has become a big financial gamble for young people. Graduates with degrees in zoology, anthropology, art history and philosophy, for example, were among the least likely to find jobs in their fields, while many recent college grads are accepting low wage jobs as bartenders, baristas and retail clerks.

Government projections released last month indicate that only three of the 30 fields with the largest number of projected job openings by 2020 will require a bachelor's degree: teachers, college professors and accountants. The majority of projected new jobs will be in retail, fast food and truck driving. According to the Mercury News report, close to 95% of the jobs lost during the recession and “recovery” were middle-income occupations like bank tellers, and many of these are not expected to return due to technological advances.

Considering the job prospects and the potential debt after four years of college, young people need to carefully weigh the risks and benefits of investing in a degree program. For example, if one is earning only $24,000 per year after taxes, or $2,000 per month, and spending half of that on rent, how can they afford to pay back any of their debt and still afford to eat? Even with an after-tax income of $36,000 per year, people living in high cost cities like New York, San Francisco or Los Angeles would have a difficult time surviving and paying back their debts.

Deliberately choosing a college major in one of the few growth industries (e.g., K-12 or college educator or accountant) might seem like a prudent move. However, even this is a huge risk. 50% of all teachers leave the profession within the first 5 years, at which point, they may still be saddled with a large college debt and lack the skills for a more appropriate and adequately paying job. At the same time, the working conditions for both K-12 teachers and college professors have been deteriorating rapidly, with increasing teaching loads and student to teacher ratios, longer hours, increased responsibilities, and decreased opportunities for tenure and job security. Thus, even for those with the interest and desire to stay in the field, they could still find themselves jobless within their first few years.

Do I even need to say anything about the absurdity of becoming an accountant just to be able to pay off one’s student debt?

Modern School
http://modeducation.blogspot.com/2012/04/is-college-still-worth-investment.html

[Turbineguy]

1. Quite possibly not.

But then that was the result of Reaganomics. Where work is not rewarded.

[Ed Suspicious]

2. What would you argue is the alternative?

If you forgo college you're really stacking the chips against yourself. Worst case scenario, at least with a college education, you'll understand why your getting the shaft.

[napoleon_in_rags]

3. I think not. The focus should be on trade schools.

Trade schools really plugged in to American industries and their needs. We need to face facts - older generations had classist issues that placed blue collar workers way lower on the totem pole than white collar workers. The result has been this society of people wearing white collars and making minimum wage in the "service" sector, while China and others are way to happy to control the means of production, aka the old blue collar jobs. We built a society of assholes who think they are too good to get their hands dirty doing blue collar work, and the result is an army of unemployed people with philosophy degrees wondering when their ship will come in, while our infrastructure crumbles and future generations are being sold into debt slavery to China etc.

edit: Not to zoom in too much on the poor guy with the wrong degree.. The real problem with our society is manifest inthose finance sector types that are willing to try anything to get money without actually providing a product or service... The kind of people who invented bank overdraft fees and adjustable rate mortgages. We need to get back to the idea of hard honest work as being admirable.

[Iris]

4. Where to start?

It's my day off and I have big plans, so I'll just leave this for now:

http://www.ericdigests.org/2003-3/value.htm

"According to the Census Bureau, over an adult's working life, high school graduates earn an average of $1.2 million; associate's degree holders earn about $1.6 million; and bachelor's degree holders earn about $2.1 million (Day and Newburger, 2002)."

But I also agree with the poster who mentioned technical schools and this report adds more food for thought in that area:

"Boesel and Fredland estimate that around 600,000 students leave 4-year colleges annually without graduating. These noncompleters earn less than college graduates because they get fewer years of education. More surprising, they tend to earn less than or the same amount as 2-year college students who have as much education. Furthermore, 2-year college students show about the same gains in tested cognitive skills for each year of attendance as 4-year college students. Students at 4-year colleges also pay more in tuition and are more likely to have student loan debts than 2-year students (Boesel and Fredland, 1999, p. viii). The authors conclude that high school graduates of modest ability or uncertain motivation-factors that increase their chances of leaving college before graduation-would be well-advised to consider attending 2-year, instead of 4-year, colleges. If they did, they would probably realize the same earnings and cognitive skill gains at lower cost and with less debt. In order to maximize the return on their time and monetary investment, students who do choose to enroll in 4-year colleges should do everything in their power to graduate. (Boesel and Fredland, 1999, p.ix)."

[Modern School]

5. Over One's Lifetime is Irrelevant Now, When I'm Unemployed

If you got in when the gettin was good, yeh, you'll make a lot more money over your lifetime. If you're getting out of school now with $20k in debt and no jobs on the horizon in your field, then you're in debt up to your neck with no prospects. Was it a good investment? Won't know for many years, but right now it's a nightmare.

[Iris]

6. My generation (Gen X) got out of school in a recession

and we survived. It is true that there is now evidence a generation that graduates from college during a recession doesn't ever "catch up" with those who are lucky enough to graduate in better economic times, but ultimately, they are still better off in the long run than those without a degree.

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. I'm a baby boomer and my generation can't afford to retire

So what difference does that college degree make now? Part of the reason younger folks can't find jobs is because my generation is not retiring. Our pensions and retirement funds have been devastated by the recession/depression so we'll be working till we die. It doesn't matter if we are college grads or not. We still can't afford to survive without jobs.

[Iris]

9. That's not about getting a degree. That's more of the crap the 1% has perpetrated on the rest of us

No pensions. 401Ks are the way! - yeah, right.

[Rittermeister]

7. Maybe I'm the only pencil-necked geek here

But I, umm, enjoy the academic environment. Always liked my professors way more than my classmates.

[Smarmie Doofus]

10. If the best they can look forward to is possible employment as a ps teacher.....

.... they'd be better advised to emigrate. I mean that quite literally.

Teaching *sucks*. In the USA, anyway.

It didn't always suck, but it sucks now.

And it sucks a lot more in 2012 than it did in 2008.

I wonder why.




>>>>>Deliberately choosing a college major in one of the few growth industries (e.g., K-12 or college educator or accountant) might seem like a prudent move. However, even this is a huge risk. 50% of all teachers leave the profession within the first 5 years, at which point, they may still be saddled with a large college debt and lack the skills for a more appropriate and adequately paying job. At the same time, the working conditions for both K-12 teachers and college professors have been deteriorating rapidly, with increasing teaching loads and student to teacher ratios, longer hours, increased responsibilities, and decreased opportunities for tenure and job security. Thus, even for those with the interest and desire to stay in the field, they could still find themselves jobless within their first few years.>>>>

[HealthGuy77]

11. Spam deleted by Ruby the Liberal (MIR Team)

[AnneD]

12. The question does not have a ...

one size fits all answer. Some jobs do require a degree, even an advanced degree but many do not. In fact, requiring a degree for many is just plane stupid.

The other component to this question is where does one obtain the degree and what area will one work at when the degree is obtained. Going to an exclusive school for a bachelor's degree in psychology or social work is a waste of time and certainly money. For most degrees and jobs, local community college and transfer to a state college is the best option for value. It makes no financial sense to leave school with a $120,000 debt load for a job that earns you $32,000.

There is a tremendous need for technical skills. These use to be taught in high school in shop, woodworking, welding etc. but no more. The local community college fills that need and this is a very valid place for students to get training without shelling out buckets of money or going deeply into debt. However, most high schools cruelly push a college bound culture to kids that cannot afford to go to a 4 year college, are not prepared, or have the true inclination.

If I could reform our educational system, I would model it after the German or European system of placing student in a trades or academic component after giving them a battery of psychological tests in middle school to determine what they might be happiest or best in.

I had to recently go through this with my daughter. I agreed to letting her go to an expensive out of state expensive top of the field university. But this happened only after she indicated to me that she understood the nature of the commitment, demonstrated the level of talent required, and could do the hard work necessary. I am a fiscal conservative and she had to work hard to convince me.

She is graduating this month and has had job offers already. While the school trained her, the price tag was worth it for the connections she has developed. She has networked like crazy and has a good reputation as a hard worker. She should be able to pay the loan off without difficulty.

If she could not have accomplished all of that, she would be graduating from a state college with no debts next week. Parents AND students need to have the cold water of reality splashed in their faces at times.

[JPZenger]

13. Huge increase in arts and theater majors

Part of the problem is that too many students are studying unmarketable majors. Unless you really really have top talent, don't major in arts or the theater. It is OK to do it for fun as a minor, but find something you can do for your day job.

Also, an incredibly high percentage of students never graduate. While having large debts and a college degree can be difficult, it is much more difficult to have large debts and NOT have a college degree. Part of the problem is that way too many students choose a college that they really cannot afford.

[Neoma]

14. I'll go to college to learn...

I'd be a professional student if I could.