Arctic Ocean 'acidifying rapidly'

[dipsydoodle]

The Arctic seas are being made rapidly more acidic by carbon-dioxide emissions, according to a new report.

Scientists from Norway's Center for International Climate and Environmental Research monitored widespread changes in ocean chemistry in the region.

They say even if CO2 emissions stopped now, it would take tens of thousands of years for Arctic Ocean chemistry to revert to pre-industrial levels.

>

They forecast major changes in the marine ecosystem, but say there is huge uncertainty over what those changes will be.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22408341

[nxylas]

1. Remember when hippies used to talk about putting acid in the water supply?

I don't think this was what they had in mind.

[Scuba]

5. No. I do remember TPTB claiming that hippies would do that, but as usual they were wrong and ...

[cantbeserious]

2. The Fundies Rejection Of Science Will Be A Lasting Legacy For The Right Wing

eom

[Volaris]

3. only so long as there are enough people left to DO any remembering...

While I understand that ecosystems and the life that inhabits them WILL evolve and survive, there IS a point of no return. Once the first support strut collapses (and it may or may not be noticed) the "anomoly" will become systemic, and we WILL get to watch the end of the World, so to speak.

It's going to really piss off all those same fundies, though, when there is no Divine Savior at the end of it.

[harmonicon]

6. Is that really what's to blame? I mean, it's nice to have a scapegoat, but thoughts don't pour...

loads of shit into the air and water.

Fundie, leftwing, rightwing: we all live in the same basic world, and we're all almost equally responsible. Everyone finds ways to justify their destructive behaviour. I do it, and you probably do it. Even those of us who are very cognizant of this have very little we can do about it, and even if we did otherwise give up our lives to live as cleanly as possible, it would make a negligible impact.

I'm not saying that there's nothing we can do about it or that it's a lost cause, but that things far more basic than just how some people influence the current political/legal system have to change if a difference is to be made. I mean, fundamental things about how we structure our daily lives and economy that won't ever be touched by our current social, economic, and political systems.

[cantbeserious]

8. Go Find The Fundie Test On DU That Tests Children's Knowledge Of Dinosaurs

eom

[harmonicon]

10. Maybe that makes you feel better.

Believe me, I know all about that shit. If you want to blame "fundies" for the world's problems and pass the blame, be my guest. Like I said, little else you can do is going to make much of a difference anyway.

[cantbeserious]

12. Fundies Are An Intrinsic Part Of The Problem - My Feelings Are Irrelavant

eom

[harmonicon]

14. No, they really aren't.

The way you and someone who denies global warming live your lives are basically identical. Even if you try to make them as different as possible, the larger economic/political forces at work over which individual choices have little to no impact are going to dwarf those differences by comparison.

[cantbeserious]

19. Your Points Are Lost On Me - We Will Have To Agree To Disasgree

eom

[harmonicon]

26. It's not about agreeing or disagreeing. (nt)

[pscot]

16. "Fundies" and card carrying ACLU members

leave the same carbon footprint. The enemy is us. And we will all fall together.

[cantbeserious]

20. What Does The ALCU Have To Do With The Discussion

eom

[NickB79]

21. The entire world is getting in on this party

Are the fundies primarily responsible for the booming growth in carbon emissions from Africa, or Asia, or any other area of the world trying to improve living standards for it's people? Does China's massive coal build-out rest on the shoulders of fundamentalists? Do the billion Indians who desire a car like their US counterparts only want one because of fundamentalists?

We could round up and shoot every fundie in the US tomorrow, and it wouldn't make much difference in the long run, IMO. If ANY politician told the people the truth about what they'll have to sacrifice to keep temps below 2C, they'd be voted out of office at best; strung up at worst.

[cantbeserious]

22. The Question Is Which Group Is Singularly Anti-Science -- Fundies

eom

[NickB79]

23. And that doesn't make a difference globally

China and India put out some of the world's best scientists, and their governments HEAVILY promote the development of more science to better their society. They don't have anything like the fundamentalist anti-evolution/climate denier crowd we have in the US.

It hasn't stopped them from building new fossil fuel infrastructure like gangbusters, or blanketing their nations with paved roads for a car culture like the US has.

Even President Obama, a supposed intelligent liberal president, doesn't seem to take climate change seriously.

[cantbeserious]

24. My Focus Is US Politics And The Consequences Thereto

eom

[NickB79]

25. Global warming doesn't recognize borders

Hence why it is called GLOBAL warming rather than US warming or Canadian warming.

What I'm trying to point out is that the drive to burn up massive amounts of fossil fuels and pollute the planet goes deeper than the fundy mindset of anti-science. It is rooted in our species' apparently insatiable need to grow at all costs. If we can't address that, nothing else matters.

[muriel_volestrangler]

11. Fundies have attacked basic science in the US for years

The US has a far larger 'evolution denier' base than any other developed country. And the US also has a larger 'climate change denier' base than other countries - while being one of the largest producers of CO2. Only in the USA could several candidates for president deny evolution, and deny global warming too.

It's not proven, but the close similarity and overlap of evolution denial, global warming denial, and right wing politics is strong evidence.

[harmonicon]

13. I'm not saying those things don't go together.

What I am saying is even if those people disappeared tomorrow, the way everyone else lives would still have to radically change in far greater ways than these people are holding back for any significant impact to be made. It's good to do the little things, but they're REALLY, REALLY minor in terms of impact.

[GliderGuider]

15. Complete agreement from this corner.

Growth isn't just a right-wing shibboleth. Everybody on the planet, regardless of their sociopolitical persuasion, is contributing to the problem. We've been growing in numbers, consumption levels and social complexity for the last 10,000 years. Our social systems and cultural structures are all designed and intended to foster growth - the political, legal, economic, educational and technical systems we've developed over the centuries have as their common fundamental goal the preservation and encouragement of the conditions necessary for human growth.

This is not a left/right problem. It's a human problem, about to be revealed as a planetary one.

[watoos]

4. Some scientists claim

that 15% of the oceans are dead zones, oxygen deficient. Without our oceans we cannot survive, emphasis on we.
Oceans produce more oxygen than the rain forests.

[chervilant]

7. It's like we're waking up from a bad dream,

only to discover it's not a dream. And, this is just the beginning. One erudite and brave soul (a plant scientist!) has suggested rationing as a fundamental construct of our 'new' economic behavior. I think too many of us take for granted the clean water piped directly into our homes. How about the ubiquitous air-conditioning in virtually every commercial enterprise?

We are penultimate hedonists (pun intended). Crisis may be our only motivator for significant change.

(And, I think it's puerile -- and unnecessary -- to play the blame and shame game. We no longer have the luxury of time to determine which "party" to blame.)

[hatrack]

9. Wow, no one could have predicted this!

[progressoid]

17. How will this impact the Dancing With The Stars schedule?

[muriel_volestrangler]

18. The likelihood of a "Dancing on Ice"/"Survivor" team-up in the Artic is looking unlikely now

Hell, even the ice indoors is melting:

The opening night performance of an ice skating show in Birmingham has been cancelled because the ice melted, promoters have said.

Birmingham NIA apologised and blamed "unforeseen technical problems" for the cancellation of Celebrities on Ice. The cast said they were "all devastated."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-22226979

Don't laugh - they've made 8 seasons of this pap.