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Ghost Dog

(16,881 posts)
Mon May 19, 2014, 11:20 PM May 2014

Diclotican: Re. The Orkneys and The Shetlands

So, on reflection extrapolating from your earlier communication, the Danish crown, dominating the whole of Scandinavia at the time, finding itself all-but bankrupt (because largely of warring, I guess), looks around a little further out but still in fact well within the local Scandinavian-influenced world at that time, sees an opportunity to make a deal with the Scottish crown: the loan in cash or whatever easily-negotiable goods in exchange for the Orkneys and the Shetlands (but not eg. the Faröes) on lien.

The deal is struck; Denmark gets paid as agreed and Scotand gets the islands.

The Danish crown does not repay the loan so Scotland keeps the islands.

Fair deal, right? Yeah. Cool.

But hang on a minute.

From a Norwegian point of view, the Danish crown was occupying Norway at the time and sold Norwegian islands to Scotland (Norwegians, doubtless, not being consulted).

Denmarks's domination of Scandinavia did not persist.

Today, the situation established then persists..Regardless of whether the Danish crown had the right or not to sell the islands, obviously for Norwegians there is sentiment there.

As there is obviously sentiment in Scotland.

What in the future, it occurs to me, would be beautiful to see, would be an independent Scottish Republic in perhaps or perhaps not a Union but certainly a Special Relationship with Norway, inside and/or outside the EU.

Your thoughts?

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Diclotican: Re. The Orkneys and The Shetlands (Original Post) Ghost Dog May 2014 OP
Ghost Dog Diclotican May 2014 #1

Diclotican

(5,095 posts)
1. Ghost Dog
Tue May 20, 2014, 07:34 AM
May 2014

Ghost Dog

Well - the Danish Crown at the time - the early 1500s had the tree crowns of Sweden, Norway and Denmark - a result of the Kalmar union between Denmark, Sweden and Norway - as the Queen of Denmark - heritages both the Norwegian and Swedish crowns thanks to marriage and by birth right - even though a woman was not regularly allowed to the crown - as it was heritages by the oldest son regularly - but it was not exactly anything regularly about the late 1380s - mostly because the old royal household of Norway and Sweden had either died out - or was in shambles without any hope of a possibility of making a comeback - the one royal household who still kept it up - was the danish one - and by marriage both to the swedish crown prince - who died - and the Norwegian crown prince - who also died - the one standing still after the carnage was Queen Margarete 1 of Denmark, Norway and Sweden - a union where the nobles and the danish crown tried with some success to unite the tree kingdoms into one - even though Sweden had resources - and the Wasa family of strong willed nobles to fight off the danish crown - and set itself up as an independent Kingdom - and the Wasa family would rule Sweden for a couple of centuries too - not bad for a family who basically was a family who was not part of the super rich nobility - and who had a rather painfully reputation in the royal cort back in the days ..

The Faroes was not part of the Scotties deal - thats is sure - and Faroes is still a part of denmark - and I doubt the people on faroes would left denmark anytime soon, even as the islands would love to be in depended of Denmark - specially if the oil and gas resources in the sea is as rich as they hope too...


From a Norwegian point of view - the selling, or pawning of the Orkney's and the Shetlands to Scotland from the danish crown was a rather painfully and horrible action, who was not seen as a gentle gesture - but then again, Christian the 3 of Denmark was rather arrogant - and brutal and i doubt protest from any Norwegians back in the days would have making him choose something else - he was the king - and therefore have all the right to do as he pleased - dam the peasants in norway


The people of Orkney's and the Shetlands have always had a rather close relationship with norway - from Shetland it is still more easy to travel to Bergen in Norway - than to the capital of Scotland! and the sentiment is absolutely positive for a closer friendship - some even talk a dialect who resemble Norwegian - in a way - even if it is a lot of english in the dialect - and the sentiments problem is something like they want to be more friendship as the time goes - of course it will not be as it was back in the days when the islands was part of Norway - it will be better - mostly because it will be a relationship based om friendship other than one was ruling the others - and up into the 12 century the rulers of the islands could be rather violent when it came to governance of the islands even if it was part of Norway.. In some part of the hebries - if you speak Norwegian - you can get a free beer at the local pub...

Many in Scotland have also stated - if the country was to be independent of UK, they would try to make a closer friendship with all of scandinavia - as it absolutely is close ties with scandinavia - I doubt they will go into a union with Scandinavia anytime soon - but closer friendship - and working together with Scandinavia is absolutely a way to do it - as we have cultural and other ties between the two countries - going back to when the Vikings was doing it best to plunder and pillage everything worth doing so...

I think from my point of view the future is bright - even if Scotland decide to be part of UK - as Scotland have risen from its sleep the last couple of decades - even have its own Parliament now - something that is seen as a will to make the push for independence more possible than if Scotland had not had the Parliament - but if a divorce between Scotland and UK was to be - it would not be to easy for Scotland to stand on its own - but then again the scottish people is a stubborn one - and would manage rather well I suspect....

We just have to see I guess - About it all

Diclotican

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