Child soldier promotes violence in Fatah video

[shira]

...In the video, a young boy singer dressed in a military uniform is seen going through a training program like adult soldiers and brandishing different weapons. Promoting child soldiers is forbidden according to international humanitarian law.

Video at the website...
http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=14949

[Mosby]

1. international law only applies to Israel it seems

[Scurrilous]

2. Welcome back!

[Scootaloo]

3. Palwatch. Really. I thought even you had standards, Shira.

[shira]

4. Can't dispute the video with deflections.

It's fascinating how you're more concerned about PalWatch than you are with Fatah's use of child soldiers.

Unreal.

[Scootaloo]

5. I can actually. PalWatch is well-known for its bullshit.

Even Israel's supreme court dismisses PalWatch as non-credible.

[shira]

7. No, it's actually not. Hillary Clinton uses PalWatch as a source.

Israel's Supreme Court had nothing to do with PalWatch.

[Scootaloo]

9. Then Hillary Clinton got had.

[azurnoir]

6. The video sponsored by Itamar " Obsession: Radical Islam's War Against the West." Marcus

features a kid dressed in military type sort of, garb singing against a background of photo's of adults in combat scenes, yet according to you this is proof he's an active child soldier, engaging in active combat against will it be Israel's or Jews(?), have I got that right?

[shira]

8. You're more annoyed at PalWatch than Fatah using kids as child-militants.

Fascinating, considering the video is indisputable.

Here's more:

Girl on PA TV: "By the blood of the youth, Jerusalem will come back to us"
http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=7530

Several videos there show without question the promotion of death and violence to little children.

That's PA state-controlled media (Abbas, Fatah).

And it's sickening.

[azurnoir]

10. why are you deflecting my comment don't wish to comment on what your OP consists of?

and no the video's are about the death and violence little Palestinian children see around them

[shira]

11. Right. We're not supposed to believe our lying eyes. Nothing to see there. n/t

[Zamen]

27. Getting sanctimonious over the use of child-militants

Is the privilege of someone who lives in a nation with overwhelming military superiority.

[shira]

28. To censor or deny this info. is to support & enable it. n/t

[Zamen]

30. Quite frankly, it's not something that bothers me

Don't you think we also had "child-militants" fighting in the Revolutionary and Civil Wars?

[shira]

31. I suspect it doesn't bother very many of Israel's harshest critics.

Which is disturbing on so many levels.

[Zamen]

34. If the roles were reversed

I suspect it wouldn't bother you either.

[shira]

36. It should bother anyone with a conscience, no matter who does it. n/t

[Zamen]

37. That's easy enough to say when you're the occupying power

With overwhelming military dominance. The fact is, the state of Israel would never have come into existence if they didn't employ similar tactics of their own during the early days.

[shira]

38. Do you support Hamas using children as combatants? n/t

[Zamen]

39. I'm not going to condone it

I'm not going to judge people who have few other options, however. It's not my place.

[shira]

42. Okay. But I don't buy the "few other options" argument....

There's Cyprus, Tibet, Kurdistan, and Kashmir.

Where are all those child combatant martyrs for the cause?

[Zamen]

43. What other options do they have?

The Palestinians don't have F-16s, Apache helicopters, Merkava tanks, their own nuclear deterrent, etc.

[shira]

44. The people of Tibet have fewer options, but children aren't combatants....

Would you say that you understand the use of child-combatants if the sole purpose were to end the occupation of the W.Bank?


Now what if the purpose is to kill or expel the Jews & seek 1-state Arab majority rule from the river to the sea?

[Zamen]

45. They also haven't achieved their goal of ending Chinese occupation

My focus is on Gaza and the West Bank, I don't have an opinion further than that.

[6chars]

52. good observation

[grossproffit]

12. Sickening.

Last edited Sun Jun 7, 2015, 02:07 AM - Edit history (1)

[Little Tich]

13. That jihad baby is cute in a creepy kind of way,

but he should be playing with his I-pad instead, like normal babies. Thanks to his clueless parents, he's probably on the IDF's "most wanted" list in the toddler category.

The rest is most probably just complete BS. Itamar Marcus is a notorious racist, and the PMW is an anti-Palestinian hate site. If the story was accurate, it wouldn't be on PMW.

But the video seems genuine, although it's well known that there is nobody on PMW who is fluent in arabic; that boy could be singing about Spongebob Squarepants for all we know.

[shira]

14. No, it's beyond evil child abuse. Life Magazine 1970...

I'm pretty sure PMW had started yet at that time.

===================

Hamas kindergarten graduation ceremony

Young children are shown wearing military uniforms and carrying rifles. Some wear masks and suicide vests. The children are shown marching in formation, crawling on the ground, jumping over obstaces, and shouting slogans. Children chant: "Jihad! Allah

http://www.care2.com/news/member/683342450/3845149

=================

Another kindergarten ceremony...
http://www.israelvideonetwork.com/hamas-kindergarten-graduation-ceremony/

=================

More child abuse...
http://www.israelvideonetwork.com/if-this-isnt-child-abuse-i-dont-know-what-is/

=================

15,000 young Gazans complete Hamas terror training camps
http://www.timesofisrael.com/15000-young-gazans-complete-hamas-terror-training-camps/

Inside one of Hamas' youth training camps
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/02/hamas-youth-liberation-camps.html#

[azurnoir]

49. you mean like this? oh and your thread about the Hamas training camp listed ages 15-21 as children

ToI refers to them as 'young men'

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113495734

?w=588









https://occupiedpalestine.wordpress.com/2012/12/15/israels-military-indoctrination-of-children-by-stephenlendman-with-video/

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

53. Crickets, hasbara style.

[oberliner]

15. "If the story was accurate, it wouldn't be on PMW."

Which part is not accurate?

"it's well known that there is nobody on PMW who is fluent in arabic..."

PMW translators are experts in Arabic with many years of study and experience, including university degrees. For some, Arabic is their mother tongue.

"Itamar Marcus is a notorious racist, and the PMW is an anti-Palestinian hate site."

Senator Hillary Clinton:
Good morning everyone, and thank you very much for being here.

It is my privilege once again to join Palestinian Media Watch for this press conference, and for the latest report that they have compiled about the Palestinian textbooks.

Director Itamar Marcus, who has been a steadfast leader, has helped to deliver this message which we repeat again today - we must stop the propaganda to which Palestinian children are being exposed.

http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=92&doc_id=101

[Little Tich]

17. It's troubling that the Secretary of State is connected to a right-wing

organization like PMW, even indirectly. PMW is a hasbara factory like NGO-Monitor, and shouldn't be taken seriously; the whole reason for its existence is to spread one-sided disinformation.

Some experts question extent of Palestinian incitement
Source: Times of Israel
Examples cited by watchdog group tracking hate media said to be either misinterpreted or isolated incidents
Read more: http://www.timesofisrael.com/some-experts-question-extent-of-palestinian-incitement/


Judge dismisses credibility of Palestinian Media Watch testimony
Source: +972 Mag
An Israeli district court judge metes out scathing criticism of Palestinian Media Watch director Itamar Marcus’s expert witness testimony on incitement in Palestinian media, in a civil case against the PA and its leaders. Marcus’s testimony, Judge Dalia Gano wrote, was incomplete, biased and unworthy of the title “expert witness testimony.”

Read more: http://972mag.com/judge-dismisses-credibility-of-palestinian-media-watch-testimony/78900/

[oberliner]

20. "a hasbara factory like NGO-Monitor, and shouldn't be taken seriously..."

Mondoweiss and 972mag are mirror images of PMW (anti-hasbara factories) and should similarly not be taken seriously.

Or we can take something from each of those sites but understand that they have their biases and agendas.

"the whole reason for its existence is to spread one-sided disinformation."

That's Mondoweiss in a nutshell right there.

[shira]

26. Do you oppose these PMW videos promoting peace/coexistence?

http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=880

[Little Tich]

29. Read the instructions in italics on how to interpret some of the clips.

I strongly suspect that there is an agenda, and that these news items are picked and altered to fit that agenda.

[shira]

33. Unlike BDS, PMW writes about Palestinians who promote co-existence....

Last edited Sun Jun 7, 2015, 11:09 AM - Edit history (1)

BDS is against normalizing relations (co-existence) between Palestinians and Jews.
http://thirdnarrative.org/israel-palestine-articles/anti-normalization-prevents-peace-sustains-the-occupation-undermines-academic-freedom-and-harms-students/

BDS is obviously against peace and co-existence, as you've been told here many times.

Haaretz left-winger Amira Hass was thrown out of Birzeit U. for the crime of being a Jew...
http://www.haaretz.com/news/features/.premium-1.618007

That's BDS.

BDS even bragged about canceling a peace concert by One Voice...

PACBI seeks 'genuine peace' by boycotting a peace concert
http://www.engageonline.org.uk/blog/article.php?id=1479

Also...

The OneVoice Movement regrets that the Jericho Summit that was to be hosted by OneVoice Palestine on October 18th as part of its One Million Voices campaign is postponed due to security considerations.

This is a serious setback to the 600,000 Palestinian and Israeli signatories to the OneVoice Mandate, and to the millions of moderates in the region and worldwide who recognize the imperative of ending the conflict through a two-state solution.

The global responsibility of amplifying voices of moderates to help them seize back the agenda for conflict resolution is only further highlighted by this development. The OneVoice Summit in Tel Aviv and echo events worldwide will continue as planned, as will the overall campaign, One Million Voices To End The Conflict, across Israel and Palestine.

- See more at: http://blog.onevoicemovement.org/one_voice/2007/10/cancelling-jeri.html#sthash.K5hmR9lr.dpuf

BDS'ers then bragged about it and continued to bash OneVoice...
http://electronicintifada.net/content/concert-cancellation-victory-against-normalization/782
http://www.peacewithrealism.org/headline/onevoice.htm

==========================

And yet we're to believe PMW is more suspect than BDS'ers who spew their fascist hate-propaganda daily, while forbidding peaceful co-existence between Palestinians and Jews.

Fascinating.

[Zamen]

35. Even experts in Arabic

Can take things out of context, or selectively choose what they wish to translate for the English-speaking audience.

[shira]

47. As the 1970 cover of Life Magazine shows, this has been going on for decades....

Do you find it acceptable that Hamas & other Palestinian militant groups use child-combatants in order to kill Jews?

That's about as hateful and fascist as it gets, so it would be disappointing if you remain silent or don't harshly condemn these evil war crimes.

[oberliner]

16. Here's my appraisal of PalWatch

The are useful in that:

There is a major issue with incitement against Israel (and Jews) in Palestinian society and the Arab world more broadly. They present media that is not normally seen by the West. The videos are real. The translations are good (with occasional errors). People ought to know that these sort of videos are out there.

That being said:

The guy who runs it is a RW settler. They selectively choose videos that show the worst of Palestinian (and Arab) media. They have an agenda to present Palestinian society (and Muslim Arabs) in a negative light.

With that in mind:

I view them in a similar way to the many sites that are regularly posted here that have an agenda to present Israeli society (and Zionists in general) in a negative light.

Also:

I wish there was a more liberally minded person who brought these sorts of videos to light in a less agenda-driven way.

It does seem like there is an aversion among some circles to even look at Palestinian media and try to take what is being said in Arabic on Palestinian television and translate it into English and share it with the wider world.

The openness of Israeli media and society (and the fact that English is widely used) allows us to understand Israeli society quite deeply, including getting a window into the harshest critics who feel free to speak out against their government. There really ought to be that same sort of open self-reflection among Palestinians available in English in order to get a fairer picture of the entire situation in both societies.

[shira]

18. Yes, the video is legit & the translations are good enough (>99% accuracy)

In fact, PMW's detractors have only come up with a few minor complaints despite 1000's of PMW reports over the years.

They selectively choose videos that show the worst of Palestinian (and Arab) media. They have an agenda to present Palestinian society (and Muslim Arabs) in a negative light.

It's not all bad. Here are reports that promote coexistence in Palestinian media.
http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=880

We don't see anything positive on Mondoweiss, ElectronicIntifada, Maan, etc. The purpose of those sites is quite clear in that their purpose is to always bash Israel and dehumanize Israeli Jews. Their purpose isn't coexistence or peace.

If there were more positive things to report from Palestinian media, I'm pretty sure PMW would do it.

I wish there was a more liberally minded person who brought these sorts of videos to light in a less agenda-driven way.

Me too. So why isn't it happening?

There really ought to be that same sort of open self-reflection among Palestinians available in English in order to get a fairer picture of the entire situation in both societies.

It's fascinating that their supporters could care less about Palestinian society. They don't care about it at all & do not even wish to know what the Arabic Palestinian media reports. They are trained to only see Palestinian people as 1-dimensional victims of Israeli oppression, nothing else.

[Israeli]

19. The guy who runs it is a RW settler.....

" They have an agenda to present Palestinian society (and Muslim Arabs) in a negative light. "

Whats their " agenda " oberliner ???

" The openness of Israeli media and society (and the fact that English is widely used) allows us to understand Israeli society quite deeply, including getting a window into the harshest critics who feel free to speak out against their government. "

Which would include 972 and Israeli social TV :
http://tv.social.org.il/en

Neither of which you seem to be a fan of .

" There really ought to be that same sort of open self-reflection among Palestinians available in English in order to get a fairer picture of the entire situation in both societies. "

There is oberliner.....here would be a good place for you to make a start :

http://www.theparentscircle.com/

[oberliner]

21. Thanks for sharing that link

I will check out the Parents Circle Families Forum.

[Israeli]

23. You are welcome ....

...thanks for replying to ....

"" Whats their " agenda " oberliner ??? ""

[shira]

24. PMW reports on Palestinians promoting co-existence/peace....

http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=880


Now who would be against these videos from PMW?



And what would be their agenda?

[oberliner]

25. Sorry

I thought I made it clear what I thought their agenda was, but I will elaborate.

I think PMW's agenda is to expose what they believe to be the anti-Israel and anti-semitic sentiment pervading Palestinian society that the Western world is largely unaware of. I believe they think that making the rest of the world aware of this will strengthen international (mainly US) support for Israel and weaken the movement towards providing for the creation of a Palestinian state.

Like I said, I think they are the flip side of Mondoweiss and Electronic Intifada whose agenda is to expose what they believe to be the anti-Palesinian and anti-Arab sentiment pervading Israeli society that the Western world is largely unaware of. I believe they think that making the rest of the world aware of this will strengthen international (mainly US) support for the BDS movement and weaken the movement towards providing for a two-state solution.

In both cases, I think the premises are flawed and the goals are unenviable. I am in the Geneva Initiative camp, supporting those who are in favor of two states.

(With respect to 972mag, I think some of the writers there are better than others, but they definitely have an angle).

I hope that is helpful to understand where I am coming from. Feel free to PM me if you want to get into any of these topics in greater detail.

[Israeli]

32. Your stance on ' Breaking the Silence ' .....

....has it changed ?

Since Obama and this .....

Israeli NGO Breaking the Silence meets Obama aides in Washington

Left-wing nonprofit met with White House National Security Council and State Department's human-rights bureau to discuss Israeli soldiers' testimonies from last summer's war in Gaza.

By Barak Ravid

Duss told Haaretz that during the meetings, Breaking the Silence presented its recent report last summer’s Operation Protective Edge in the Gaza Strip. Obama administration officials reacted with a great deal of interest, Duss said, asking “many questions about the vetting process of the witnesses, the testimonies and the fact-checking.”

Source: http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.659781

Still doubt the anonymous sources ??????

oberliner....its not us that are lying to you ....it is you that are lying to yourselves .

.......

BTW ...The " agenda " I was referring to was the " agenda " of our " RW settlers " ....your quote not mine.

[Jefferson23]

41. That untouchable thread..hmm. One could presume this thread is a means to say..see, no way

should the Palestinians receive a viable state, they're too dangerous. The thread relies
on a racist living in the OPT, you're suppose to ignore that..I noticed Clinton is being used as an airbag to
take the brunt for this guy. I doubt she would appreciate that.

[shira]

46. Either you believe child-soldiers are acceptable & this info. should be censored...

....or you're in total denial and won't accept any amount of evidence proving this.

Which is it?

Or is it something else, and if so, what?

[Jefferson23]

48. That is how you're framing it, and it is a strawman premise.

I reject your evidence, Itamar Marcus, a racist living in and benefiting from the OPT.

However many children have been scapegoated by any group to pursue their political
goal, I reject. The problem however does not begin nor end there.

It begins with those who have the political and military power to ensure more settlements,
more racist laws and more wars waged to target Palestinians and keep them down.

[shira]

22. Harvard surgeon on Gazan child throwing a grenade....

[shira]

40. VIDEO: Arafat: Dead children are greatest message to the world

http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=711&fld_id=722&doc_id=479

[shira]

50. BBC Documentary Whitewashes Hamas’ Terrorist Summer Camps

http://www.algemeiner.com/2015/08/04/bbc-documentary-whitewashes-hamas-terrorist-summer-camps/

[shira]

51. Hamas's New Army of Children (DU thread from Feb. 2015)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=95734