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[6chars]

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[grossproffit]

1. Those Iranian jokesters, always kidding around.

[libodem]

2. So what do they know?

They should bite their tongue. And be ignored.

[Little Tich]

3. Iran should rein in their dog. n./t

[leftynyc]

4. How anyone call read this

and then whine about Bibi being against this deal just shows the hypocrisy of some. I support the deal with STRONG reservations but I could argue the other side just as convincingly. This OP just proves the arguments against the deal have a lot of merit. Or is someone going to try and come and call this a mistranslation - the standard bullshit put forth when Iran's leaders show their true colors.

[blm]

27. So Ehud Barak is lying when he says Bibi wanted to attack Iran THREE TIMES?

Netanyahu Wanted To Attack Iran But Was Overruled: Ex-Defense Minister
The Israeli premier pressed for military operations at least three times in recent years, according to Ehud Barak.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/netanyahu-attack-iran_55d8dec2e4b04ae4970375d9

[leftynyc]

42. What does that have to

do with the OP? But I don't blame you for trying to deflect from the facts. It's pretty standard procedure around here.

[blm]

45. Point being that the threats are common from both sides' hardliners, inc US' hardliners..

Yet the only comments you want taken seriously are those by Iranian hardliners.


I don't blame you for always trying to pretend that it only matters when Iranian hardliners do it = that's pretty standard procedure for those charged with spreading the hardliners' propaganda.

[aranthus]

47. Don't you think that the threats are different?

Israel has threatened to attack Iran to destroy potential weapons of mass destruction. Iran has threatened genocide against Israel. Also, there's a chicken and egg issue. Did Israel threaten Iran before Iran started to make war on Israel? In this instance, Iran is the aggressor. Does that not make a difference to you?

[blm]

53. Does it make a difference to you that Iran KNOWS it would be suicidal to even attempt to

appease its hardliners by nuking Israel?

Seems you all thrive on the rhetoric of hardliners in US-Israel and Iran without thinking any of it through.

[aranthus]

72. First, how do you know that they know that?

Okay, they probably do, but it's still an assumption that we should question. Second, do they care? Maybe. Maybe not. Third, let's assume that they know and that they care. Have you heard the aphorism that the best gun is the one that you never have to fire? The point being that if Iran has nuclear weapons then it can pursue its agenda for hegemony in the Middle East without ever having to fire one. Probably without even having to acknowledge that they have one. Do you think it would be a good thing or a bad thing if Iran were to achieve hegemony in the Middle East? Further thought. Iran's stated plan is not to nuke Israel. It's to foment disorder and anti-Israel attacks until Israel is worn down and collapses. Having nukes helps Iran do that. But the big danger is that Iran will take over the rest of the Middle East on its way to destroying Israel (or trying to).

The bottom line is that Iran is the aggressor. Not just against Israel, but against the entire Arab Middle East, and by that route, the entire industrialized world. That should make a difference to you.

[blm]

74. Hardliners in US aren't a threat anywhere, eh? Hardliners EVERYWHERE are a threat to everyone.

.

[aranthus]

83. So you don't see the difference.

Which is why nothing you have posted is at all relevant.

[leftynyc]

50. Sigh

I'll pass on the complete bullshit you're trying to lay on me but my only point is that Israel has more than good reason not to trust Iran - despite what many want to claim around here about how "peaceful" they are.

[GoneFishin]

5. What language did he make his statement, and who did the translation? If not in english then

I will assume that the usual liberties have been taken by the translator, as usual.

[oberliner]

6. The Fars News Agency (FNA) is a news agency in Iran

Here is the quotation from the original Iranian source (in English):

TEHRAN (FNA)- Iranian Parliament Speaker's Adviser for International Affairs Hossein Sheikholeslam blasted British Foreign Secretary Phillip Hammond for his interfering remarks, and said Tehran's positions against Israel have not changed at all.

"Our positions against the usurper Zionist regime have not changed at all; Israel should be annihilated and this is our ultimate slogan," Sheikholeslam told reporters in Tehran on Tuesday.

http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13940603001293

[GoneFishin]

11. Sorry I can't chat, I am excited to read the FNA report about the time machine invented in Iran.

[leftynyc]

16. Continue to ignore reality

and then act shocked, SHOCKED, that the majority of Americans don't agree with you. Lather, rinse, repeat.

[oberliner]

19. I don't know what that means

I'm just saying that it was reported by an Iranian news media outlet in English.

[leftynyc]

8. That pathetic excuse

is wearing very, very thin. In fact, I would suspect there isn't one translation that isn't right on the money but some still feel it's a valid excuse because they can't bring themselves to admit that many of Iran leaders want to see Israel destroyed.

[GoneFishin]

12. Yeah. Words schmurds. Who cares if people with a hawkish agenda deliberately distort the meaning?

[leftynyc]

14. There is NO distortion

as another has already pointed out. But you still stick your fingers in your ears and refuse to see the truth. Pretty typical on the I/P board. Pathetic, but typical.

[King_David]

20. +1

[blm]

28. Ehud Barak: Bibi planned attack on Iran THREE TIMES in recent years.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/netanyahu-attack-iran_55d8dec2e4b04ae4970375d9

[leftynyc]

44. That has ZERO to do with my

post but I don't blame you for trying to change the subject. It's pathetic, but I don't blame you.

[blm]

46. It has EVERYTHING to do with your post. I don't blame you for trying to pretend it doesn't.

It's pathetic, but I don't blame you.

Hardliners say what hardliners say - in every country.

[leftynyc]

51. Spare me

If you can find one post where I've defended bibi or any other hardliner in Israel, feel free to post it (you'll be wasting your time but its yours to waste). It's those that like to pretend Israel has no reason to distrust Iran that I have nothing but contempt for.

[blm]

56. No one ever SAID there is no reason to distrust Iran.

You want to argue with straw men….arguments of your own making.

Sare us your constant reliance on straw men. Masturdebating is usually a tool of the RW hardliners and their lie machine.

[leftynyc]

60. LOL

I had to convince someone just this last weekend that Iran was not the most peaceful country in the middle east because apparently financing terrorism is just dandy as long as you don't start a ground war. No straw men there. That attitude pollutes this place.

[Mosby]

78. It's moved beyond just funding terrorists like hezbo

Both The Iranian Quds Force and the Revolutionary Guard have fighters in Iraq.

[leftynyc]

80. Yup

but we're supposed to forget or ignore all that because Israel is the worstest country to ever inhabit the planet. Madness.

[JDPriestly]

101. And before that, Iranian Jews were intimidated and terrified and forced to leave Iran.

How can Iran complain about Israel when it has pushed out so many Jews whose families lived in Iran for so long?

Iran is just anti-Jewish. It has shown that in the past.

It's policy toward Israel is simply one more manifestation of its anti-Jewish view.

[grossproffit]

9. Of course, he really said, inebriated. Israel should be inebriated. Those damn translators!

[bahrbearian]

7. In other news, McCain and Bibi sing Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran

[leftynyc]

15. You shouldn't be baffled at all

Same old, same old.

[blm]

30. What do you think Iranians think will happen to them if they did attack Israel?

What makes you think Iran's power brokers are aiming for their country and their citizens to be wiped off the face of the earth by the certain nuclear retaliation that would be coming their way?

[Fred Sanders]

32. Bibi has those Roadrunner cartoons to do his explaining for him! What more explanation is needed?

[Fred Sanders]

37. NOW the concern about the true meaning of words??? Oy!

[shenmue]

13. Just what the world needs

[geek tragedy]

17. Kruschev vowed to "bury you" in front of the UN. nt

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

18. So by gasbara logic I guess we should never have afreed to

Last edited Wed Aug 26, 2015, 03:26 PM - Edit history (1)

any of the treaties with them then?

War is slways better than diplomacy.

[shira]

21. Not while striking a diplomatic deal to avert war. Try again. n/t

[oberliner]

25. No, he didn't

The actual verbal context was: "Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. We will dig you in" ("Нравится вам или нет, но история на нашей стороне. Мы вас закопаем&quot . In his subsequent public speech Khrushchev declared: "[...] We must take a shovel and dig a deep grave, and bury colonialism as deep as we can".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_will_bury_you

Interesting how everyone fell over one another to try to correct the "wipe Israel off the map" comment (even though it was translated that way by Iranian state-run media) but the same people blindly accept "We will bury you" as an accurate translation.

[geek tragedy]

35. the distinction is subtle enough that Kruschev's translator overlooked it

Though I was incorrect, this was directed to a group of ambassadors, not the UN general assembly. That's where he pounded on his desk with a shoe.

Yet we negotiated with them.

P.S. The US was equally committed to seeing the USSR wiped off the map. It succeeded.

[oberliner]

75. Same deal with Ahmadinejad's translator

Yet countless articles were written "debunking" the translation provided by the Iranian state-run media.

But yes, I do agree with you that it is important to negotiate even with those who threaten your existence.

[geek tragedy]

90. I have no doubt I'manutjob's words were exactly as malicious as

they've been presented.

The question is whether the rhetoric is cold-war style ideological wishful thinking or a literal plan of military action.

If one believes the latter, then really the only valid option is regime change in Iran , either externally imposed or by containment via multilateral diplomacy until internal regime change happens.

[leftynyc]

22. Well, their government is STILL

talking about destroying Israel

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/11/09/iran_s_khamenei_israel_must_be_annihilated.html

Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei took to Twitter to call for the destruction of Israel over the weekend. He first started with a string of vitriolic anti-Israel tweets that called for the destruction of the “barbaric, wolflike & infanticidal regime of Israel.”


So it's not without reason that bibi and the Israeli's don't trust this deal. I don't really understand why that's so hard for everyone here to accept. I'm sure there will those running along soon to try and convince me what innocent little kittens the Iranians (financial sponsors of hamas, hezbollah and islamic jihad) are and that it's actually Israel that's the most evilest regime that ever existed (spit).

[leftynyc]

39. I don't take them seriously at all

Sorry if I gave the impression their opinion mattered to me at all.

[Israeli]

24. Israel-Loves-Iran | Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/israellovesiran

Photo :

http://www.maariv.co.il/HttpHandlers/ShowImage.ashx?id=315573&h=530&w=758

Iran opening an embassy in Israel?

Jerusalem Post Tuesday 25th August, 2015

The caption above the photo reads "Tel Aviv today. The poster says: The Israel/Iran Embassy will soon open here. No Photoshop." Comments on the Israel Loves Iran page suggested that the billboard is an art installation, indicating desire by the Israeli public to reignite relations with Iran. Other commenters hypothesize that the billboard is a satirical message in response to support given by foreign bodies towards the nuclear deal with Iran, and should not be taken literally. Ryan Amir Lahuti, a commentator originally from Tehran, offered an alternative explanation as to who may have fund...

Read the full story at Jerusalem Post
- See more at: http://www.israelnews.net/index.php/sid/236111579#sthash.cd6HPSIe.dpuf

[leftynyc]

40. And how exactly does a pathetic

facebook page match up to the words of Iran's leaders. I don't blame you for trying to change the subject.

[blm]

55. I don't blame you for your repetitious answers - I blame the hardline propagandists

who trained their hardline social media minions.

[leftynyc]

62. Gee - I'm so sorry

you don't like me using the same arguments against the same stupid arguments made day after day. I'll try and come up with new and interesting ways of trying to convince you that Iran is full of shit and their leaders really do want to destroy Israel - JUST LIKE THEY SAID THEY DO.

[blm]

69. Yep - Dick Cheney, Tom Cotten, and John Hagee agree with you, so I must be wrong, eh?

So glad US' hardliners were voted out in 2008 election.


apparently you are not

[leftynyc]

70. Spare me the hysteria

You don't have to be a right wing lunatic to think Iran is full of shit and willing to accept them at their own word - you know, the words in the OP that openly call for Israel's destruction. What a bullshit way of trying to prove something. I can't believe you're not embarrassed by your behavior on this thread. And now trying to tag me as a right winger. That's pathetic.

[blm]

73. I think you're proving to be a RW hardline mouthpiece on this thread.

I don't take THIS particular hardliner in Iran's word as more relevant to the debate than Tom Cotten's or Dick Cheney's. NONE are in control of the actual policy on the table.

What's pathetic is your failure to state anything that doesn't fit in with the US and Israel's RW hardliners and their intransigence.

Now - I am taking my leave of this thread constructed to support hardliners everywhere.

[leftynyc]

77. Pretty fucking pathetic

to leave after you've accused a DUer that has been here well over a decade of being a right winger because I don't trust Iranian mullahs who openly call for the elimination of Israel. In fact, very fucking pathetic and very fucking disgusting.

[Mosby]

81. You know how it is, it's all they got

Accuse pro-Israel posters of being right wing trolls.

It's lame.

[leftynyc]

89. Yes, but it's grown

too tiresome to ignore any longer. I've had it.

[Israeli]

100. You said ....

" So it's not without reason that bibi and the Israeli's don't trust this deal."

Many Israeli's dont trust Bibi ....myself included .

Many Israeli's do trust Obama on this ....myself included.

Did you read what I gave you .........

Ryan Amir Lahuti, a commentator originally from Tehran, offered an alternative explanation as to who may have funded the billboard. "I had heard about this. This is not a Photoshop. This is being done by some Israeli-Iranians living in Tel Aviv."

"My hat is off to them [Israel] to rise above politics," he wrote.

Most Israelis and Iranians who commented on the photo seemed optimistic of increased positive relations between the two nations.

Rashin Mahdavi, a student from Iran, expressed her support of Israeli-Iranian relations, and criticized the Iranian government's stance towards Israel.

"Unlike the Iranian government's hatred toward Israel, the Iranian people have great sympathies with Israelis. Me as an Iranian, would love to see two great nations both with cultural and historical ties be friends as they used to be. I Hope so."

The number on the banner leads callers to the "Iranian embassy in Tel Aviv" and instructs callers to leave a voicemail.

My apologies if you think we are all " pathetic " .

[leftynyc]

102. It's a lovely sentiment coming

from people who have zero power. Most people - EVERYWHERE - would just as soon live in peace and tranquility with their neighbors - that's very well known. If your leaders are hardliners and warmongers, it really doesn't matter, does it? Did hundreds of thousands in the streets stop the Iraq war? But you simply can't compare that to the actions and words from the leaders - the ones with the weapons.

[Israeli]

103. "" the ones with the weapons. "" ..........

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/12/israel-must-give-up-worst-kept-secret-bomb-201312875137554457.html

[leftynyc]

104. Are we still pretending that Israel

is the only ones with weapons that can kill people? This whole thread started with Iranian government officials proclaiming that their aim is to still destroy Israel. Many here like to pretend that Iran is a innocent little kitten and that bibi is simply a warmonger and Israel has nothing to worry about. The same people also like to deflect from the fact that Iran has - for many decades now - financed some of the worst terrorist organizations on the planet. So, in my opinion, Israel has plenty to worry about and I'm not surprised at all that they are very leery of Iran getting infused with billions of dollars they can use to further finance terrorism. Pretending Iran is zero threat is completely dishonest and I will not let that fantasy stand without pushing back.

[Fred Sanders]

26. The amusing desperation of the losers on both sides clutching at war straws as peace nears is hilarious.

[Fred Sanders]

31. True equivalency:

Mullahs of Iran, the GOP, Likud and Bibi, all sitting in a tree ...... versus The Rest of the World.

Not to mention the translation has been conveniently fucked up and distorted...what is up with that?

Let me hear it folks, I right?

[6chars]

34. in some people's minds everything leads to their one truth

that Israel is a horrible country, the worst in the world. And as soon as one line is disproved, the Israel haters grow another - like a head of Hydra - in its place.

[King_David]

36. +1

[Fred Sanders]

38. Peace-lovers equal Israel-haters!? Of course thst must be it! Your bias and lack of logic are showing.....

[leftynyc]

41. C,mon and tell us again

how the Iranian government is filled with lightness and peace and in no way has any bad intentions towards Israel - despite what their leaders CLEARLY say. Go ahead and convince us to ignore their leaders and continue to think Israel is the source of all evil. It'll be pathetic but feel free to go ahead an try.

[blm]

49. Convince us that Iran's actual leaders want to be annihilated by nuclear retaliation

that would be swift and certain if they ever even attempted to do as the hardliners are claiming?

Convince us that ONLY Iran's hardliners want war and that the hardliners in US and Israel only come from a place of lightness and peace.

It'll be a pathetic attempt but feel free to go ahead and try.

[leftynyc]

52. Let's see

Try and convince you that there are martyrs and those who don't fear death among the fundamentalist Muslims? Gee, how will I ever do that?

[blm]

54. Horsepoo diversion. You can find those suicidal martyr fundies here in US and Israel, too.

I asked for you to convince us that Iran's leadership is planning to annihilate Israel based in the hot rhetoric of its hardliners.

[leftynyc]

58. No - that's not what you asked

You asked me to convince you that the leaders in Iran would mind dying for their cause. But you trying to change THAT subject is pretty typical.

[blm]

66. LOL - You didn't convince me with the diversion BS you wrote in reply.

Bill Kristol and Tom Cotten aren't in charge of US military decisions and neither are Iran's hardline morons in charge of Iran's military decisions.

LOL at your desperate attempts to convince YOURSELF that you have a firm grasp on reality.

You are proving to be one big fail after another here.

[leftynyc]

68. Are you fucking kidding me with this?

Iran's hardliners aren't the ones in charge? THAT'S YOUR ARGUMENT? If they aren't in charge, where is the democracy? Where are the open votes? The Green revolution didn't really happen? All those people weren't killed by the hardliners that weren't in charge? Who the fuck are you trying to kid with this bullshit? You really should be embarrassed by that post. It's pathetic.

[blm]

71. That's like Iran claiming US can't be trusted because of Cheney, Bush, Kristol and

Hagee, and all the other hardliners here who are no longer in charge of US Mideast policy.

[leftynyc]

76. The US COULDN'T be trusted

when dick and bush were in charge. Just like Iran can't be trusted with their hardliners in charge - I mean unless you don't thing calling for the destruction of Israel is hardline. Now you're making my argument for me.

[blm]

96. The hardliners in Iran are AGAINST the deal, just like hardliners in US and Israel are.

The government in Iran we are dealing with ARE not the hardline, lying nutters like Cheney and Netanyahu.

You hardliners are ALL dangerous to every country.

[leftynyc]

97. You called me a right winger

because I don't agree with you on this issue. You are no longer worth my time.

[blm]

98. You are what you post. You just don't like it when someone calls you on it.

.

[blm]

48. There is ONE truth - most nations' hardliners say the same thing eventually.

US - Russia - NK - Germany - China - GB - Iran - Israel………etcetera, etcetera, and so forth……

It has NOTHING to do with singling out Israel. It has everything to do with recognizing hardliner bullshit rhetoric and calling it out for what it is, no matter what country is named in the headline.

What do YOU think Iran's leaders expect will happen to them and their entire nation should they carry out the rhetorical desires of Iran's hardliners?

You seem certain that Iran's only goal is to commit suicide. Can you explain how you came to that conclusion?

[blm]

59. Some US leaders say it would be worth it for US to sustain heavy losses

of lives and treasure in pursuit of their goals which includes attacking Iran for Netanyahu and his hardliners.

Fortunately, THEY are not in control of our military decisions, and neither are the hardliners in Iran.

[blm]

63. Every time they speak in support of attacking Iran they are saying it. You just don't want

to hear it. You want the word Iraq replaced with the word Iran. How did that work out? Many lives lost and trillions of taxpayer dollars. For what?

So glad that OUR hardliners in this nation were replaced in the 2008 election with thinking beings.

[leftynyc]

65. Do you even believe this?

They'll defend what the Iranian leaders say by saying they don't really mean it but then ask you defend words they've shoved into other's mouths to prove their stupid point. It's beyond madness.

[blm]

67. Hold up a mirror - then try telling yourself you aren't a mouthpiece for hardliners EVERYWHERE.

.

[leftynyc]

64. Well put

And so very true.

[leftynyc]

88. Hell yes

I've been trying to ignore that problem on DU for far, far too long.

[Agnosticsherbet]

79. October 1960, Nikita Khruschev pounded his fist on the dest in the UN and said, "We will bury you."

We negotiated with then, reduced the size of our nuclear inventory, and the world continued.

It has been said, that what Khruschev meant was that Communism/Socialism would out live the west, but no one in America believed that at the time.

No country can destroy all of its enemies. It is better to negotiate and leave war an absolute necessity.

[geek tragedy]

92. The behavior has been that of the USSR.

The oppression of Jews there is much more Tzarist than Nazi.

[Agnosticsherbet]

93. I am Jewish, though not Israeli, I have relatives who live there.

Sanctions have not slowed Iran down 1 second if they are attempting to build a nuclear weapon.
What good do further sanctions do? Like North Korea, I think a continued sanction regime will see them double down on development. I think what North Korea did under fierce sanctions is predictive of Iran. If we want them to act appropriately, we have bring them into the world rather then exclude them.

Now that there is a deal brokered by five nations, if the US backs out the sanction regime will be toast and other countries will trade with them.

Saudi Arabia has no official diplomatic relations with Israel, and has often created anger at Israel to control their population. There are a number of reports that the Saudis and Israelis have established secret ties because both of them see Iran as an existential threat.

[Agnosticsherbet]

95. I think when we exclude a nation from discourse and diplomacy becaue their leaders are dispicable,

we make a terrible and dangerous mistake.

Sixty years after the Korean war, we are still at war with North Korea. The world sanction regime did not stop them from developing nuclear weapons, nor developing long range missiles that have the range to hit the west coast, nor restrict them developing the largest and most dangerous artillery system ever created. Within a few days they could reduce every South Korean city to burning rubble. They also have a fleet of, at least, fifty submarines. In he event of an active war, by the time we reduced their Submarine Fleet to future archeological sites on the ocean floor, they could kill a lot of innocent people.

Of far more concern to me is ISIS who carved out a nation state from large chunks of Iraq and Syria. Iran is actually on our side against ISIS. ISIS, itself, is a far more likely threat to Israel. They are now within striking distance of the Golan Heights, and Israel has already acted to aid refugees from ISIS controlled areas of Syria.

We are at a point in sanctions with Iran that the only recourse to negotiation is to go to war. If it comes to that, I would rather let Iran instigate a war then feel we must start a war to stop their development of nuclear weapons.

Ultimately, use of a nuclear weapon Iran would guarantee retaliation in kind by the US and Israel.

[Maedhros]

82. This just in: Government that illegally occupies Palestine and brutalizes its population

generates reciprocal hatred.

Film at eleven.

[Maedhros]

91. I don't hate anyone.

Just observing that Israel's actions are generating the predictable results.

One would need to be ludicrously ill-informed to think that Iran is the unparalleled apex of evil while Israel is spotless and pure. Both sides have engaged in activities that deserve criticism, yet one of them consistently gets a pass from any accountability and the other is relentlessly hounded.

If the goal is peace and prosperity in the region, we can't just arbitrarily pick one side and call them the "Good Guys." That's pretty much how we created this mess to begin with.