U.S. is even more implicated in Israeli settlement project than we thought

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

http://mondoweiss.net/2015/08/implicated-settlement-thought

The Israeli colonies are an American problem in a whole new way. Nearly one out of six settlers in the West Bank is an American. Haaretz broke the story. Oxford scholar Sara Yael Hirschhorn says Americans are starkly overrepresented among West Bank settlers:

Roughly 60,000 American Jews live in West Bank settlements, where they account for 15 percent of the settler population, according to figures revealed Thursday by an Oxford University scholar and expert on this population.

---

Israeli settlement watchdog Peace Now said that the new figures revealed that the settlement enterprise in the West Bank was not only an internal issue but “an international problem.”

“Unfortunately, while the Obama administration has been persistently vocal against settlement developments, some 60,000 American citizens are taking an active part in an attempt to make the two state solution impossible,” says Anat Ben Nun, Peace Now’s director of development and external relations.

Can uou imagine any other area of the world where this kind of 21st invasion of Americans would be tolerated?
These Anericans...ahem...are complicit in the invasion of the West Bank, and who knows what atrocities they have commited on their mission for colonial fundamentalism??

[6chars]

1. What do you mean "Americans...ahem..."

[King_David]

3. Seems to be a statement of some kind ?

Maybe an attempt to be witty?

Ambiguous?

I too have no idea what was meant.

[shira]

13. Oh, I think you have a very good idea of what he meant. n/t

[King_David]

64. Crickets

[King_David]

66. What you think it meant?

[virgogal]

2. They are immigrants with rights just as our

millions of immigrants have rights.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

5. Then they can emigrate to Israel instead of colonizing Palestinian land...

at gunpoint.

[oberliner]

8. If the BDS movement is successful it will all be the same country

So it really won't matter if you live in Israel or Palestine because it will all be one state.

Presumably, the boundaries that exist now are just artificial ones.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

10. If the right wingers in Israel want to annex the West Bank

then it will result in a one state solution...that is unless the are planning another Nakba.

Really, ober, the BDS movement aims to cease Israeli colonization, Israeli apartheid and Israeli human rights abuses.

If Israel, its right wing politicians, its indolent voters that voted for the right wing and the lazy pretend-democrats, that always seem to mouth Likrud talking points, had been serious about a two state solution then they wouldn't have let the state of affiars, that exist today, come into being.

[oberliner]

12. Yes - they are as bad as the BDSers

Here's to those who are still working towards a two-state solution in spite of all the obstacles.

[shira]

15. The BDS goal is 1-state after a full RoR of millions of Palestinians...

Omar Barghouti stated the following....

“As Omar Barghouti, a leader of the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement against Israel, put it recently to Yale students: ‘If the refugees were to return, you would not have a two-state solution, you’d have a Palestine next to a Palestine’.” http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/01/opinion/global/zero-dark-zero.html?_r=0

So if BDS has its way - Omar Barghouti's way - why do you care about settlers? They'd be the minority after a full RoR within one of those 2 Palestinian states Barghouti is alluding to.

Waiting for you to dodge the question again in 3, 2, 1....

[azurnoir]

31. Here's a video of Barghouthi's speech at Yale give us the exact time he says exactly that

[shira]

33. It's University of Ottawa. Start exactly 1 minute in. He's very clear.

&feature=youtu.be

[King_David]

39. No further comment ?

[azurnoir]

45. what's very clear is why the youtube channel is called -minifacts but really it should be called

mucho spin 10 second sound bytes connected with boilerplate hasbara spin

[shira]

47. LoL at the denial. Sorry, but it doesn't get more damning than that. n/t

[azurnoir]

49. Truth is not denial and Barghouthi said it was another ProPalestinian person who spoke those words

as to more damning you showed us that Ruger Cohen and a couple of others were ***cough*** mistaken as were you in claiming that these were Barghothi's own words

[shira]

50. Now THAT's hillarious! Barghouti used someone else's words to make his own point....

He was very clear in the video that he favors that EXACT scenario.

===========

And you wonder why no Democrats in either the House or Senate subscribe to these ridiculous views and distortions of reality?

Seriously?

[azurnoir]

52. we actually don't know because the sound byte was limited to that sentence

in fact the entire thing was sound bytes with opinion in between then, no wonder you suggested I start watching at 1 minute

[shira]

53. Sure, right....you don't know. Pull the other leg. n/t

[shira]

19. I call BS on this sentence...

Really, ober, the BDS movement aims to cease Israeli colonization, Israeli apartheid and Israeli human rights abuses.

Omar Barghouti and other leading activists within BDS make it very, very clear they're for 1-state after a full RoR. They are totally against the 2-state solution unless that results in one Palestinian state next to another Palestinian state.


“As Omar Barghouti, a leader of the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement against Israel, put it recently to Yale students: ‘If the refugees were to return, you would not have a two-state solution, you’d have a Palestine next to a Palestine’.” http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/01/opinion/global/zero-dark-zero.html?_r=0

Norm Finkelstein is/was part of BDS and he calls BDS out for being dishonest about its position on Israel...

Why don't you just acknowledge, like all leading BDS'ers acknowledge, that you're against Israel's right to exist?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

22. Israelies don't have the right to annex Palestinian land, and if they

are Americans then they are involved in human rights abuses if they are actively involved with such a practice.

[shira]

24. I don't blame you for being too ashamed & embarrassed to discuss...

....the true goals of BDS.

Oberliner brought up a good point & you're desperately trying to avoid it.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

25. "ashamed & embarrassed"

You should remember those words the next time a Palestinian child is shot in the back, blown to pieces on a Gazan beach or left homeless by the IDF.

[shira]

26. Yeah, that's right. You prove it each time u deflect.

(Aug 26, 2015) Arab Countries Are Forcing Palestinian Exiles Back Into Syria
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/08/26/arab-countries-are-forcing-palestinian-exiles-back-into-syria.html

What do you think about that?

Concerned?

Outraged?

Couldn't give a FF?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

27. If I were an armchair supporter of Israel, I would be greatly ashamed and embarrassed

that Israel is the author of the Palestinian Shoah, and it could do a lot to help the situation, but instead it just continues to gobble up the Palestinian dream of freedom.

Perhaps it's time that Israel come to terms with its ineptitude regarding it's treatment of the Palestinian people and let them return.

[6chars]

28. the Palestinian Shoah?

you are on a roll today.

[shira]

32. Holocaust Revisionism / Minimization. n/t

[King_David]

40. That analogy posted there actually is against DUs IP rules in this group

It's a very telling comment. (Palestinian Shoah) - disgusting.

I'm surprised though to see it on a Democratic Party supporting website.

[King_David]

51. No reply?

[shira]

30. Still deflecting. I take it by yr response that u don't give a FF about Palestinians....

....forced back into Syria.

No surprise there.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

36. You can conjure up whatever phantoms you want in your dreams as far as I'm concerned, shira.

Have at it.

Apartheid Israel has created so many problems, and its followers just can't help but to fall all over themselves passing the blame.

[6chars]

38. were they forced back into Syria by Jews?

if not, then doesn't matter

[shira]

41. The worst was when Abbas...

....said it's better Palestinians die in Syria than renounce a RoR that has no basis in any law anywhere.

Abbas: Let Palestinians Die in Syria Rather than Give Up ‘Right of Return’
http://www.algemeiner.com/2013/01/11/abbas-let-palestinians-die-in-syria-rather-than-give-up-%E2%80%98right-of-return%E2%80%99/

The "moderate" PA leader unleashes that doozy and you'll notice that ever since, there hasn't been one peep from the so-called concerned & compassionate pro-Palestinian camp.

Abbas just told 10's of thousands of Palestinians to F- off & die, and not one word of criticism from the compassion abusers. In fact, they blamed Israel.

[Little Tich]

58. The Palestinian Shoah?

No.

[King_David]

59. Indeed...

It is quite a repugnant and disgusting statement that poster made...,

[6chars]

9. i was going to respond

but decided that since I might be an "ahem...American" (I am still not clear on what you meant by that) that it doesn't deserve a response.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

11. Do you reside in the West Bank?

[6chars]

14. You are surely capable of clarifying your own words

without interrogating me about my personal life.

[King_David]

20. +1

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

23. Then the answer is yes?

[6chars]

29. The answer appears to be

no, you cannot clarify your own words without interrogating me about my personal life.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

35. I can ask any question I like, and you can not answer if you like.

But it's nothing like interrogation.

[6chars]

37. speaking of questions...

[leveymg]

62. They aren't "immigrants", they are US and Israeli dual-nationals.

Only Israeli citizens are allowed by the gov't of Israel to "settle" on Israeli-controlled areas of the West Bank.

[oberliner]

4. More Jew-hate form Mr. Mondoweiss himself

Phil has really outdone himself.

Interestingly you wrote the following:

"Can uou imagine any other area of the world where this kind of 21st invasion of Americans would be tolerated?
These Anericans...ahem...are complicit in the invasion of the West Bank, and who knows what atrocities they have commited on their mission for colonial fundamentalism??"

Conveniently omitting the fact that they are not just a random group of "Americans" - they are specifically and exclusively American Jews. The Jewish part is not incidental.

Please do go ahead and express your sentiments, but do so accurately:

"Can uou imagine any other area of the world where this kind of 21st invasion of Jews would be tolerated?
These Jews...ahem...are complicit in the invasion of the West Bank, and who knows what atrocities they have commited on their mission for colonial fundamentalism??"

If you are going to stand with Phil on this, you should at least be honest about it.

(Perhaps your little "ahem" was at least a hint in that direction).

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

6. More smoke screens from ober.

The point you missed was that these are Americans involved with colonizing territory that does mot belong to them.

I know that you can't defend that, but did you have to classlessly make it all about Jews?

At the least you could have made it about Americans or Israelis.

[oberliner]

7. "Jewish-chauvinist ideas of a very intolerant character"

Did you read the article? Phil makes it about Jews. He refers specifically to the "Jewish-chauvinist ideas" that he has anecdotally heard.

At least he is honest about it and doesn't play games.

[shira]

16. I think this is where you get alerted on with post hidden...

...for daring to point out the hatred in someone else's post. And you know very well who's going to alert on that post. You only get one chance to guess...

If history here is any indication & the jury is consistent, it'll be you who deserves the hide....not him.



I'm just waiting for the inevitable....

[oberliner]

17. I'd love some clarity on what the "ahem" meant

Any idea what that might have been about?

[shira]

18. Not sure, but the utter contempt within that sentence is palpable. n/t

[King_David]

21. Maybe whoever posted that "ahem" will answer?

And clarify what was meant...

Else we are left to surmise and I am hoping it's not as ugly as it appears it may be.

[shira]

34. LoL. Yeah right. n/t

[King_David]

56. Nothing yet ?

[King_David]

46. Any "clarity " yet ?

[King_David]

60. And?

[King_David]

65. What did that "ahem" mean ?

[6chars]

67. I am still wondering.

But I have a guess.

[leveymg]

63. Sounds like old-fashioned anti-Colonialism to me. And, that term you use,

"Jew-hate" is simply obnoxious, particularly applied to a fellow Jew. The whole concept of "self-loathing Jew" in which this originates is (literally) a holier-than-thou sentiment rooted in religious prejudice and intolerance of different political opinion.

The bigotry and slander against Phillip Weiss is yours.

[Little Tich]

42. So, 60,000 Americans are voting for the one-state solution with their feet...

If BDS isn't successful their wish may well come true...

[shira]

43. Why does that worry you? You support BDS & BDS is for 1-state...

So that doesn't make you any different than the 1-state settlers.

Here's the main leading representative for the BDS movement. Look exactly 1 minute in and you'll see BDS is all about 1-state.

&feature=youtu.be

[Little Tich]

44. BDS is a wide spectrum of groups that have different different views on Israel and what should be

sanctioned.

You're taking one aspect of BDS that isn't mainstream and uses it for all actors that do BDS. Most of those who are pro-BDS are not BDSing Israel, only the settlements and the occupation. For example, there isn't a single company or government that divests from Israel, but there are many that divest from the settlements. There's a thread about BDS in Luxemburg that proves my point.

BTW, the clip made me feel sad...

[shira]

48. It's not a wide spectrum at all. They're pretty much all in lock-step with each other....

Did you see Norm Finkelstein on BDS?

He's a slimy POS, but he nailed it. He's been involved with BDS for years.

Noam Chomsky basically said the same thing, without making the concocted distinctions you're trying to make within BDS.

===========

I know, you refuse to believe it so please find a group of BDS'ers for 2 states, and that means one Jewish state next to a Palestinian one.

Good luck on that.

[Little Tich]

54. How can insisting on separating the settlements from Israel lead to the one-state solution?

I don't buy anything from the settlements but I buy Israeli products, so how do I contribute to the one-state solution? All you have for your argument is a few clips with people that I don't agree with, barely know who they are and who have no connection to what I do.

Your argument would be much stronger if you could show a link between the BDS that I support, like the one in the OP about BDS in Luxemburg (http://www.democraticunderground.com/1134111675), and these mad hatters you love to show clips about.

[shira]

55. The protesters bullying the grocery chain Cactus are BDS ass clowns....

....representing the same BDS that Omar Barghouti leads. That's the same Barghouti who made you sad in that video. The same vile worldwide movement that wanted to boycott a Jewish musician just days ago while happily hosting a homophobe who sings about killing gays.

https://www.facebook.com/CPJPO

The grocery chain finally gave in under enormous pressure to these fascists.

[Little Tich]

57. That group will have to do with Cactus not stocking settlement produce, but still selling Israeli

products.

I took a look at their website (http://wazzart.net/web4/) and the Facebook page, and they're definitely not racist, but they do seem to be a little bit one-sided. They seem to be OK with Cactus decision to stop selling settlement produce, but they're not happy that they still sell SodaStream...

[oberliner]

61. Cool how you can tell by looking at a Facebook page that a group is "definitely not racist"

That is quite an amazing power.

Me, I'd have to actually have a conversation with members of the group or judge them by their actions rather than their PR.