'The EU must ban all products from Israel'

[Israeli]

Frank van der Linde, a Dutch political-social activist who spent a long time in Israel and has dozens of friends in the country, is the face of the BDS campaign in the Netherlands. In a special interview to Yedioth Ahronoth, he explains why he doesn't recognize Israel as a state, dismisses claims of hypocrisy in light of the other injustices taking place in the world, and says he supports the rights of both Palestinian and Jewish refugees.

Ronen Bergman
Published: 09.25.15, 19:54 / Israel News

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4703507,00.html

Long.... but interesting .

[grossproffit]

1. The ramblings of an utter lunatic. Whose goal is the destruction of Israel.

[Scootaloo]

2. It's interesting

Someone says "end the occupation" and you hear "DESTROY ISRAEL RARGHLARGARBLEARGH!"

Is the oppression, killing, and displacement of Palestinian Arabs so completely and utterly integral to your support for Israel that you simply cannot conceive of the state existing without that feature?

[Israeli]

4. Tisk tisk Scootaloo........

............what occupation ???

[oberliner]

5. Someone says "Israel must become a Muslim-majority state" and you hear "end the occupation"

This activist makes it clear that the problem is the existence of Israel.

If you do not believe that there is a "natural right of the Jewish people to be masters of their own fate, like all other nations, in their own sovereign state" as the Israeli declaration independence states then you do not believe Israel should exist either.

If, like the activist in the OP, you want to destroy Israel - just be honest about it as he does.

[6chars]

6. This fellow seems more extreme than what you're saying

"I don't recognize the State of Israel as a state" is pretty strong.

The thing I find most objectionable in his position is that he basically says "I don't care what happens if Israel is dismantled, I just think it's morally right to dismantle it" (when the interviewer is kind of getting at - in my reading between the lines - whether Jews will be expelled or annihilated or what if Jewish Israel becomes part of a larger Muslim state). I guess there are ethical frameworks where consequences don't come into consideration, but those are childish - and this guy is committing his life to one.

It is interesting how he makes a point to let us know that some of his best friends are Jewish. We hear that a lot from his type.

[King_David]

9. "I don't recognize the State of Israel '

Wo cares? As if he is soooo important.As if this is his cause.
We see that a lot here too.
Like a poster thanking another poster for contributing to his cause.

[grossproffit]

10. Awe, you're right. He does have a few "Jewish" friends. So, he can't be all bad, right?

[Israeli]

3. I'm sure we will survive such " ramblings " ....

.....but ....what about these " ramblings " ????.........

Senior EU source: We may consider steps beyond labeling products

He said that if Israel continues its policy of expanding settlements even after products are marked, the EU will consider additional measures.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4703139,00.html

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

7. TY, Israeli.

Kick!

[King_David]

8. A hateful loser too,

Seems he became obsessed , looking for a cause to alleviate his boredom and enable him to give up his jobs.

[6chars]

11. this

[grossproffit]

12. Who pays his bills?

[King_David]

13. Probably the same very rich Nations that pay a lot of these people's bills,

Rumor has it , some very prominent people too.

[Little Tich]

14. This is one bandwagon I won't jump onto.

I support boycotting apartheid only. There is an apartheid system in place in the West Bank, therefore it should be boycotted. Israel is just a bottom-rung democracy with a racist problem similar to for example Hungary or Romania. I can't even feel remotely motivated to boycott Hungary or Romania, so why should I boycott Israel?

BTW, those in this thread who oppose the OP are better off discussing why people would want to boycott Israel instead of attacking the messenger. Pretending to be ignorant is not a very good argument.

[Israeli]

15. Always look at the bright side Little Tich......

........at least this time they did not complain about the source .

[oberliner]

17. Are there any sources that you find suspect?

I would imagine there are, but folks have the good sense not to post from them here for the most part.

[Israeli]

30. Sure oberliner .....

Most that I find suspect are religious Right wing sources ......such as ..

Arutz 7
@ http://www.israelnationalnews.com/

Israellycool
http://www.israellycool.com/

Most of shira's sources ...especially :
http://www.algemeiner.com/

I dont see you making the same fuss over the above as you do with Left wing sources .

I trust those that are in charge of this group to lay down the law with sources ...I read many Left wing web sites that I dont post on here because of the hoo-hah that would ensue from you and those with your political orientation ...such as this one :

https://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2015/09/27/holidays-in-israel-a-time-to-love-or-to-hate-3/

So yes ... I have " the good sense " to know my limitations ....if I go off track I would hope that those in charge would let me know .
Those in charge oberliner.....not you .

BTW ...hag sameach.

[King_David]

31. Mondoweiss certainly is not a Left wing source

They support Ann Coulter and trash Bernie Sanders.

[oberliner]

34. They also trash Abbas

In fact, they don't look kindly on any Palestinian leaders who want to try to reach a compromise with Israel.

[Israeli]

35. I never mentioned Mondoweiss KD ....

Seriously ....do you think I was born yesterday ?
Or perhaps I am just blind and stupid ??

[King_David]

36. Of course I do not think that nt

[oberliner]

16. I'd love for you to reflect on why people would want to boycott Israel

It can be quite an illuminating thought experiment.

[Little Tich]

18. Most people in the Western World see Israel as one of their own,

and that's why they set the same standards for Israel as they do for their own countries.

However, that's only one explanation, and it might even be untrue sometimes.

[oberliner]

19. And yet many in the Western World rank Israel close to Iran and North Korea

In terms of popularity.

For example:

Britons dislike Israel more than Iran – but North Korea beats them both as most maligned nation

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/britons-dislike-israel-more-than-iran--but-north-korea-beats-them-both-as-most-maligned-nation-10016643.html

Israel makes the Top 5 Least Favorable nations in the UK and across the Western World.

[King_David]

20. Except for in the USA

How are Jewish people in general viewed across in those other countries you mentioned?

Well in the USA we have a Jewish Democratic Party candidate running for president and the being Jewish part is not an issue.

[oberliner]

21. Interestingly, Israel is viewed much more favorably across Africa than across Europe

In the 3 sub-Saharan African countries included in the survey (Ghana, Kenya, and Nigeria), Israel's favorable rating is in the 30s and 40, whereas in Western Europe (Germany, UK, Spain) Israel's favorability is in the low teens and single digits (4 in Spain).

In the US, it is much higher (51) as you point out.

[King_David]

22. 51% in the USA ?

That other 49% must be that Anne Coulter crowd and the David Duke supporters?

[grossproffit]

23. Seven in 10 Americans Continue to View Israel Favorably

[img][/img]

[url]http://www.gallup.com/poll/181652/seven-americans-continue-view-israel-favorably.aspx[/url]

[King_David]

24. I believe that

The other 3/10 are on David Dukes website, on Anne Coulter website and 5 other people in this group.

[oberliner]

25. Here's the poll with the 51 percent number (2013)

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/2013%20Country%20Rating%20Poll.pdf

[leftynyc]

32. Wow - those numbers

remained remarkably steady in the last year.

[Israeli]

29. Here is " an illuminating thought experiment " for you ....

....touched me it did .... atheist that I am ....

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/25/opinion/jews-as-far-as-possible.html?src=me&_r=0

Perhaps such ideas are Jew-ish, the delusions of which “real Jews” in their absolutist certainties have rid themselves. But I will take the “as far as possible” of the Jewish philosopher over the all-or-nothing conviction of the Messianic Jewish settler.

[snappyturtle]

26. I realize Israel is considered an ally. However, I just don't see why? I am being very honest.

Did Israel aid us in our battles in Afghanistan and Iraq? I don't know. Israel seems to cost us a lot on money and time trying to formulate a neighborhood that Israel will accept.

[oberliner]

27. President Obama has spoken eloquently on this subject

He is an excerpt from his speech in Israel in 2013:

For the Jewish people, the journey to the promise of the State of Israel wound through countless generations. It involved centuries of suffering and exile, prejudice and pogroms and even genocide. Through it all, the Jewish people sustained their unique identity and traditions, as well as a longing to return home. And while Jews achieved extraordinary success in many parts of the world, the dream of true freedom finally found its full expression in the Zionist idea -- to be a free people in your homeland. That’s why I believe that Israel is rooted not just in history and tradition, but also in a simple and profound idea -- the idea that people deserve to be free in a land of their own.

Over the last 65 years, when Israel has been at its best, Israelis have demonstrated that responsibility does not end when you reach the promised land, it only begins. And so Israel has been a refuge for the diaspora -- welcoming Jews from Europe, from the former Soviet Union, from Ethiopia, from North Africa.

Israel has built a prosperous nation -- through kibbutzeem that made the desert bloom, business that broadened the middle class, innovators who reached new frontiers, from the smallest microchip to the orbits of space. Israel has established a thriving democracy, with a spirited civil society and proud political parties, and a tireless free press, and a lively public debate -– “lively” may even be an understatement.

And Israel has achieved all this even as it’s overcome relentless threats to its security -- through the courage of the Israel Defense Forces, and the citizenry that is so resilient in the face of terror.

This is the story of Israel. This is the work that has brought the dreams of so many generations to life. And every step of the way, Israel has built unbreakable bonds of friendship with my country, the United States of America

Those ties began only 11 minutes after Israeli independence, when the United States was the first nation to recognize the State of Israel. As President Truman said in explaining his decision to recognize Israel, he said, “I believe it has a glorious future before it not just as another sovereign nation, but as an embodiment of the great ideals of our civilization.” And since then, we’ve built a friendship that advances our shared interests.

Together, we share a commitment to security for our citizens and the stability of the Middle East and North Africa. Together, we share a focus on advancing economic growth around the globe, and strengthening the middle class within our own countries. Together, we share a stake in the success of democracy.

But the source of our friendship extends beyond mere interests, just as it has transcended political parties and individual leaders. America is a nation of immigrants. America is strengthened by diversity. America is enriched by faith. We are governed not simply by men and women, but by laws. We're fueled by entrepreneurship and innovation, and we are defined by a democratic discourse that allows each generation to reimagine and renew our union once more. So in Israel, we see values that we share, even as we recognize what makes us different. That is an essential part of our bond.

[Israeli]

28. And just as eloquently on the subject of settlements... .....

US President Barack Obama did not mention Tzipi Hotovely in his speech at the Adas Israel Synagogue in Washington, nor in his interview with Jeffrey Goldberg in “The Atlantic ".

He did express his growing concern with the direction Israel is going: ....

“When I think about how I came to know Israel, it was based on images of … kibbutzim, and Moshe Dayan, and Golda Meir, and the sense that not only are we creating a safe Jewish homeland, but also we are remaking the world. We’re repairing it. We are going to do it the right way. We are going to make sure that the lessons we’ve learned from our hardships and our persecutions are applied to how we govern and how we treat others.(…) I want Israel, in the same way that I want the United States, to embody the Judeo-Christian values and, ultimately then, what I believe are human or universal values that have led to progress over a millennium.

The same values that led to the end of Jim Crow and slavery. The same values that led to Nelson Mandela being freed and a multiracial democracy emerging in South Africa. (…) There has been a very concerted effort on the part of some political forces to equate being pro-Israel, and hence being supportive of the Jewish people, with a rubber stamp on a particular set of policies coming out of the Israeli government. So if you are questioning settlement policy, that indicates you’re anti-Israeli, or that indicates you’re anti-Jewish. If you express compassion or empathy towards Palestinian youth, who are dealing with checkpoints or restrictions on their ability to travel, then you are suspect in terms of your support of Israel. If you are willing to get into public disagreements with the Israeli government, then the notion is that you are being anti-Israel, and by extension, anti-Jewish. I completely reject that.”

Source : http://adam-keller2.blogspot.co.il/search?q=An+international+roller+coaster

[King_David]

33. I agree with that ,

But the anti Israel OTT rhetoric we see from particular poster in our group is not what's being described there and certainly not limited to the occupation or settlements at all.