Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumBernie Sanders introduces himself to the Jewish community in Iowa
-----------snip------------------------
Touting his Democratic-socialist values, the Jewish Senator compared himself to the first Prime Minister of the State of Israel. I believe David Ben Gurion was a Democratic socialist, he remarked when asked to differentiate between liberalism and his socialist views. He mentioned working at a kibbutz earlier in his life and visiting Israel as an elected official several times.
He also promised, The security of Israel will be very important to me. Adding that it goes without saying that Israelis must be guaranteed to live their lives with security without the fear of terror attacks. But he also emphasized, At the end of the day what we are going to need is a two-state solution.
Sanders repeated comments he had made in the past that his Judaism in the post-Holocaust era has shaped his policial philosophy in a very deep way.
A guy named Adolf Hitler won an election in 1932. He won an election, and 50 million people died as a result of that election in World War II, including 6 million Jews. So what I learned as a little kid is that politics is, in fact, very important, he asserted.
Adding: Historically, the Jewish people have been strong advocates fighting discrimination and fighting for social and economic justice.
http://www.jewishjournal.com/nation/article/bernie_sanders_introduces_himself_to_the_jewish_community_in_iowa
King_David
(14,851 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)It is about his views on Israel and being Jewish.
I meant more like, "you ought to post this there too"
King_David
(14,851 posts)will tomorrow...
Bed time now
Mosby
(16,297 posts)Purveyor
(29,876 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)Little Tich
(6,171 posts)If he promotes the two-state solution without mentioning the elephant in the room that makes it de facto impossible, then he's just another opportunistic politician paying lipservice to the two-state solution, while hoping the settlement shit bomb won't explode on his watch.
I still like Bernie Sanders, partially because I think he could be an honest broker in the Middle-East, but I don't think unconditional support is what Israel needs right now.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Who is a single issue AntiZionist, with the most extremist anti Israel rhetoric and has a Bernie Avatar, could possibly support Bernie.
Go Bernie Go,Kol Hakavod.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)After all, even though my support for him isn't unconditional and I question some of the things he does, I sincerely think he would be an excellent POTUS....
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Again, I think that you have volatile regions in the world, the Middle East is one of them, and the United States has got to work with other countries around the world to fight for Israels security and existence at the same time as we fight for a Palestinian state where the people in that country can enjoy a decent standard of living, which is certainly not the case right now. My long-term hope is that instead of pouring so much military aid into Israel, into Egypt, we can provide more economic aid to help improve the standard of living of the people in that area.
http://www.jta.org/2015/08/17/news-opinion/politics/where-does-bernie-sanders-the-jewish-candidate-for-president-stand-on-israel
King_David
(14,851 posts)Some Jews believe the definition of a Zionist is someone who goes on Aliyah- period !
You keep quoting that as if Bernie meant something else... Some kind of wishful thinking.... LOL
Bernie Sanders will be the first Jewish President and already is very strong supporter of Israel.
A more enthusiastic supporter of the Jewish state than any other candidate currently running for president. The only candidate to have lived in Israel.
Bernie Sanders compares himself to David Ben Gurion - one of Zionisms foremost HERO...
His views on Israel are identical to half the posters here in this group and absolutely opposite of the ones sporting Bernie Sanders avatars ..... Ha ha ha ha ha ha
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)and if I may ask who do you support in 2016 election?
why do you consistently pretend that Bernie Sanders is a hawk on Israel ?
you do realize most of Bernies supporters are more well informed than that
and lastly I could swear you said you'd run this in General Discussion Primaries today but I've yet to see it there
King_David
(14,851 posts)Bernie Sanders stance on Israel and voting record are 100% in sync with half the posters in this group....and 100% polar opposite to half the group, especially those sporting Bernie Sanders Avatars
( hilariously so)
There is a poster in this group that goes on and on about BDS , Apartheid , the most extreme antiZionist rhetoric etc etc that Bernie Sanders would have absolutely nothing to do with and he sports a Bernie Sanders Avatar.( strangely )
I never posted it above as you have seen for yourself what happens with some Jewish themes posts... Especially one where Bernie reveals one of his Hero's to be one of the worlds best known Jewish Zionist Hero the last century ever saw.(Ben Gurion)
Go Bernie Go....
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)this group- especially me
eta you seem to ignore my query about Hillary and where is it that you wish Bernie to go?
King_David
(14,851 posts)And Israel's place as a very special friend of the USA and support Israel's right to exist in peace and security and free of terrorism... Then I guess so...
If you thought Hamas was to blame in the last Gaza war and supported Israel in its self defense and destruction of terror tunnels as Bernie did....
As well as supporting Israel and Obama but not Netanyahu and consider David Ben Gurion a personal Hero (one of the greatest Jewish Zionist Heros of the last century)
Welcome to our side....
Your views must of changed .
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)On Israel, meanwhile, Sanderss record is a mixed bag. In particular, last summers conflict in Gaza brought to light his complex feelings on the Arab-Israeli conflict. Sanders was one of 21 of 100 U.S. senators not to sign on as a co-sponsor to Senate Resolution 498, which expressed support for Israel as it defends itself against unprovoked rocket attack from Hamas.
But during a town hall meeting last August in Cabot, Vt., when Sanders was verbally attacked by pro-Palestinian activists who yelled expletives at him for condemning Hamas for firing rockets at Israeli civilians, Sanders responded to the hecklers with pro-Israel comments.
You have a situation where Hamas is sending missiles into Israel
and you know where some of those missiles are coming from? Theyre coming from populated areas, Sanders said. Hamas is very clear. Their view is that Israel should not have a right to exist.
After the activists replied to him, Bullshit, F**k Israel, Sanders went on to explain that there are more pressing issues in the Middle East, such as the Islamic State terror group, which he condemned for attempting to turn parts of Iraq and Syria into a 7th Century caliphate that is suppressing womens rights.
During the same meeting, however, Sanders described Israels Operation Protective Edge in Gaza as an overreaction.
His statement blaming Israel for overreacting to Hamas missiles, incitement, and terror tunnels is worrisome, Troy told JNS.org.
http://www.jns.org/latest-articles/2015/7/19/for-bernie-sanders-jewish-presidential-contender-is-israel-on-the-radar#.VgsQLvlViko=
King_David
(14,851 posts)Meanwhile the rest of the posters here with Bernie Sanders avatars calling for BDS daily and calling Israel an apartheid state and calling out Israel for protecting itself during Gaza operations etc etc... WTF would they support someone like Bernie Sanders with views on Israel so diametrically opposite to the extremist "antiZionist" views they express here on a daily basis - against the Jewish state.
Boggles the mind.
Why can't they be honest like their Heros at Mondoweiss ?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1134113241
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Last edited Wed Sep 30, 2015, 12:44 AM - Edit history (1)
here it is the vote was taken 7/17/14 during Operation Protective Edge
https://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/senate-resolution/498/cosponsors
King_David
(14,851 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)as you claim in your link all of the bills mention are at least 4+ years old BTW
S. Res. 138: calling on the United Nations to rescind the Goldstone report, formally known as the UN Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict, which accused the Israeli government of targeting Palestinian civilians.S. Res. 185: reaffirming the commitment of the US to a negotiated settlement of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and calling for a US veto of any UN resolution on Palestinian statehood without a settlement.
S. Con. Res. 23: supporting Israel in maintaining defensible borders, and against Israel returning to the armistice lines that existed on June 4, 1967
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1134110822#post8
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=113926
King_David
(14,851 posts)Touting his Democratic-socialist values, the Jewish Senator compared himself to the first Prime Minister of the State of Israel. I believe David Ben Gurion was a Democratic socialist, he remarked when asked to differentiate between liberalism and his socialist views. He mentioned working at a kibbutz earlier in his life and visiting Israel as an elected official several times.
He also promised, The security of Israel will be very important to me. Adding that it goes without saying that Israelis must be guaranteed to live their lives with security without the fear of terror attacks. But he also emphasized, At the end of the day what we are going to need is a two-state solution.
Sanders repeated comments he had made in the past that his Judaism in the post-Holocaust era has shaped his policial philosophy in a very deep way.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)Sanders made headlines in August, when a dialogue with pro-Palestine human rights activists at a Vermont town hall boiled over into frustration after Sanders chided Israel for its actions rather than condemning its many war crimes. The interaction occurred near the end of Israels brutal assault on the people of Gaza last summer, during which Israeli soldiers deliberately targeted hospitals and U.N. shelters and killed thousands of civilians. Last July, Sanders joined the rest of the U.S. Senate by unanimously voting to support Israels actions.
The conversation was captured on video and widely circulated. Writing in April for Bustle, Chris Tognotti summarized the breakdown in communication:
Basically, as Sanders explained his view he claimed that Israel overreacted and wrongly bombed U.N. facilities, but the country was also faced with Hamas-fired rockets shot from populated areas he was met with an angry interruption. Before you know it, he was yelling shut up, and a woman in the back of the room was yelling F**k Israel! It was ugly.
Philip Weiss, of Mondoweiss, reported that Sanders brings ISIS out of nowhere into the discussion in a strained attempt to defend the militarism of the state of Israel militarism supported by billions in U.S. aid annually.
-----------------------------snip-------------------------------
Until Sanders makes newer statements, voters must assume that all major 2016 candidates support Israels occupation of Palestine and Israels apartheid policies, with third parties representing the only real alternative.
http://www.mintpressnews.com/bernie-sanders-stance-on-israel-is-more-of-the-same-ole-same-ole/207529/
This is the garbage junk nonsense what the people in this group , the ones sporting Bernie Sanders Avatars spout here every
day....
BERNIE to Victory ......
King_David
(14,851 posts)S. Res. 138: calling on the United Nations to rescind the Goldstone report, formally known as the UN Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict, which accused the Israeli government of targeting Palestinian civilians.S. Res. 185: reaffirming the commitment of the US to a negotiated settlement of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and calling for a US veto of any UN resolution on Palestinian statehood without a settlement.
S. Con. Res. 23: supporting Israel in maintaining defensible borders, and against Israel returning to the armistice lines that existed on June 4, 1967
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1134110822#post8
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)linking to a repeat reply on the same thread my someone's clever
King_David
(14,851 posts)Bernie Sanders opposed the 2003 invasion of Iraq and subsequent occupation of that country.
Sanders wanted to get out of Afghanistan from 2011 much faster than the timetable announced by President Obama. Obama has now more or less extended a US military presence in Afghanistan, advertised as a training mission, indefinitely. My reading of Sanders is that he would get out of that country entirely.
A President Bernie Sanders would endorse the Iran negotiations of the Obama administration. He said of the talks,
While much more work remains to be done this framework is an important step forward. It is imperative that Iran not get a nuclear weapon. It also is imperative that we do everything we can to reach a diplomatic solution and avoid never-ending war in the Middle East. I look forward to examining the details of this agreement and making sure that it is effective ?and strong.
Note that Sanders accepts the Washington consensus that Iran is trying to get a nuclear weapon, which Iran denies. Sanders has slammed the GOP obstructionists of the talks for itching for a war with Iran. He himself says that a war with Iran should be avoided at all costs. However, it is not clear what he would do if the current talks broke down and he became convinced as president that the Iranians had developed a nuclear weapons program.
Sanders opposed the US taking the lead in the aerial campaign against Daesh (ISIS or ISIL) in Iraq and Syria, asking where the Arabs were and saying that American kids shouldnt be dying to protect Saudi Arabia. The money spent on that bombing, he said, should have gone to help the US middle classes.
But Sanders also did say that the US should be supportive of the Gulf Cooperation Council and Jordan and Iraq in their campaigns against Daesh. It is not clear to me what this stance implies. Should the US do less bombing and insist the GCC do more? But that there should be some US bombing is not in question?
http://www.juancole.com/2015/04/president-bernie-sanders.html
This is what I think of Juan Cole trashing Bernie:
Fuck Juan Cole
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)No. Bernie doesnt support Israel over the Palestinians. He believes both have the right to exist, stating:
the bottom line is that Israel must have the right to exist in peace and security, just as the Palestinians must have the right to a homeland in which they and they alone control their political system and their economy.
http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-israel-and-the-palestinians/
oberliner
(58,724 posts)In fact on the front page it says:
This website was built & is maintained by volunteers with no official relation to Bernie Sanders.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)then what was your point in using it?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)It's at the very bottom.
This website was built & is maintained by volunteers with no official relation to Bernie Sanders.
Were regular people, unassociated with any Super PACs or billionaires.
© 2015 FEELTHEBERN.ORG
Response to azurnoir (Reply #32)
King_David This message was self-deleted by its author.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)All anyone is saying is that Bernie Sanders supports a two state solution - which is apparently an unpopular position among some here.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)starts at 12:36, she also throws in Hamas and Hezbollah as caveats for suport of the deal, even though they are not part of deal
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Pretty much the same sentiments from both candidates who, incidentally, both are strong supporters of the Iran deal.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)I believe we have an obligation to pursue diplomatic solutions before resorting to military engagement especially after nearly fourteen years of ill-conceived and disastrous military engagements in the region.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)The United States will never allow you to acquire a nuclear weapon, Clinton said during remarks at the Brookings Institution in Washington, D.C Wednesday morning, in a message aimed directly at Irans leaders. As president I will take whatever actions are necessary to protect the U.S. and its allies. I will not hesitate to take military action.
The democratic presidential candidate, who says she supports the Iran nuclear deal as part of a larger strategy for dealing with Iran, explained that military action would only be a last resort after trying diplomatic routes first.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/hillary-clinton-hesitate-military-action-iran-attempts-nuclear/story?id=33630243
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)can speak for himself. And his words are clear.
No need for "so what."
Not sure how 1 particular poster in this group with the most myopic pro Israel rhetoric could possibly believe that she speaks for Senator Sanders.
The Senator's record is clear, and we do not need some posters assume they know the candidates mind when he has told us, and is on record.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)The hatred, violence and loss of life that define this conflict make living an ordinary life a constant struggle for both peoples. We must work with those Israeli and Palestinian leaders who are committed to peace, security and statehood rather than to empty rhetoric and violence. A two-state solution must include compromises from both sides to achieve a fair and lasting peace in the region. The Palestinians must fulfill their responsibilities to end terrorism against Israel and recognize Israels right to exist. In return, the Israelis must end their policy of targeted killings, prevent further Israeli settlements on Palestinian land and prevent the destruction of Palestinian homes, businesses and infrastructure.
http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-israel-and-the-palestinians/
Do you agree with his remarks?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Israel doesn't.
Israel has been practicing land theft.
Israel has been practicing illegal colonization.
Israel has been practicing ethnic cleansing.
Israel has been practicing apartheid.
That puts Israel at odds with the USA.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Many individual Israelis believe in a two-state solution, as Bernie does. This includes members of the Israeli Knesset.
We need to support those Israelis who advocate for two states, as Bernie does.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)But it is a pleasant lie for the gasbarists to dredge up to feign caring.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Is he a "gasbarist" who feigns caring?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)He has admitted that there will never be a Palestinian state.
If Senator Sanders is elected POTUS, then I hope that his actions on Israel are as fair as his words have been against the corporate elite.
The one-state solution is dead.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)What's left?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)I'm assuming now that it was a typo.
In any case, what do you think this one state is going to be like?
King_David
(14,851 posts)With a Bernie Sanders avatar , says he disagrees with Bernie Sanders on that single issue .
LOL
Do you "get" it ?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)the facts of the matter.
Bernie may be for a 2 state solution, but Israel isn't, Netanbooboo isn't and the hasbarists just pay lip service to it: keeping the status quo in place.
Looks like Abu Mazzen just acknowledged that sbd has waljed away.
1 State here we go...
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Generally what will be the key components of this state?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Can I describe what the one-state will look like after Israel has to admit it can't take the West Bank but keep voting rights from Palestinians?
I can't predict the future, but with the present fundamental/zionist regime it will most likely be ugly.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)What sort of one-state would be cause for the BDS community to celebrate a job well done?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)I would hope for Democracy to prevail, but democracy is messy.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Something beyond vague platitudes about democracy maybe?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)see nuance.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)What has to happen for you to no longer boycott?
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)I consider that a positive thing.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)GREENVILLE, S.C. (Reuters) - U.S. Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton on Thursday said a two-state solution for Israel and the Palestinians was the only resolution to the conflict there.
http://news.yahoo.com/hillary-clinton-two-state-solution-best-outcome-israelis-200519501.html
Same position for both candidates.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Can you identify one or two?
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)why is Haim Saban pledging money to Hillary and not Bernie?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I have no idea what Hillary would say if she was asked that question.
I think Saban is donating to Hillary and not Bernie because he thinks she will win and because Bernie doesn't generally take money from super rich people. Millionaires and Billionaires are not really Bernie's base.
My view is that Sanders and Clinton basically have the same position with respect to I/P. Certainly Sanders has a position that supports the two-state solution (as Hillary does).
If everyone who had a Sanders image or logo as their avatar adopted his POV on I/P then there wouldn't be posts supportive of BDS and in opposition to the two-state solution.
But obviously, folks are certainly free to disagree with Sanders on those subjects. It just seems like if people like his other views, maybe they should consider his views on this subject as well.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)And Bernie Sanders (also a strong supporter of the Iran deal) has said that the military option should always be on the table.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)At least let's be honest and not try to play games.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)it does nicely to build a compatriots comment count doesn't it?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I forgot that we were having the same discussion in the same thread!
Anyway, I think I've adequately demonstrated the point.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)one keeps it as a possibility the other says attack is definite
I will not hesitate to take military action"
oberliner
(58,724 posts)They are on the same page. They both wholeheartedly support the Iran deal and the use of diplomacy to prevent Iran from getting nuclear weapons - which they both state is an "absolute imperative".
Sanders: I applaud Secretary Kerry for their enormously difficult work of trying to reach out an agreement with the P5+1 in Iran, to try to figure out how we can prevent Iran from getting a nuclear weapon, which to me is an absolute imperative,
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)and the difference is between "sometimes" and "I will not hesitate "
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/07/29/1406732/-Bernie-s-Vox-interview-Foreign-Policy-Discussed
King_David
(14,851 posts)Guess it never occurred to you how a Jew in such a situation can not shout from the hilltops that he is a Zionist or not ?
Not sure how Hillary would react or not but you do seem clueless on how Jews in such situations would have to be more cautious.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)He asks, rhetorically, what it means.
Weird that you would claim he refuses to say a word in response to a post that quotes him saying that word.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)So many people have decided to make Zionism mean so many different things that I think it is wise for him to understand what a particular questioner means by the word. If you meant it was smart for him to avoid calling himself a Zionist in that respect then I completely agree with you.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Posters here are making his reply into a meaning that it clearly is not. Their wishful thinking is that Bernie Sanders said something he clearly did not.
For example End days Christian Right wingers call themselves Zionists when clearly they are not.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)But that is not what he said.
I do think that people are imposing their own views of what they would like Bernie's to be instead of reflecting on what his stated views actually are.
King_David
(14,851 posts)That's why it's surprising that those posting in our group that do have Bernie avatars have diametrically opposite views on Israel to the senator and almost the rest of us have almost identical views on Israel as Bernie Sanders does.
It's good he's getting their support though if indeed they vote for Democratic Party candidates- the more votes he gets the better as far as I'm concerned.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Those posters often like to fool themselves into thinking they would be voting for a President who thinks like they do on the I/P issue. They just refuse to believe poll after poll after poll that tells them the American people - including those we vote for - are STRONGLY pro-Israel. They don't trust the Palestinian leadership (hamas or abbas for good reason) and they never will. Let them have their delusions.
King_David
(14,851 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)do with the fact he's a strong supporter of Israel is anybody's guess. But go ahead and get your comfort from where you can.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)It's just my opinion.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)NOT get elected in this country. Not even to Congress.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I would characterize her as an anti-Zionist.
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)And she was definitely an anti-Zionist in my opinion.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)that's not what she ran on, nobody talked about her feelings about the issue and when it was brought out, she didn't even win her primary (for which she and her father blamed the Jews). Her feelings about Jews is what did her in. I'm not even sure the I/P issue came up.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I don't think she made a secret of her feelings about Israel, though, if it ever came up.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)on votes and until she voted against Israeli aid in 2002 (the same year she lost her primary), there is nothing to be found on her feelings about Jews or Israel. Looks like as soon as she made her feelings clear, she was kicked to the curb.
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)Little Tich
(6,171 posts)Perhaps Bernie Sanders don't want to be connected to that.
Come to think of it though, I can't recall a single person who calls himself a Zionist who isn't a racist. Perhaps it's my bias talking, as I consider Zionism to be a racist ideology, but still...
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)what the definition of Zionist is or your bias is showing. Frankly, I don't care which. But how nice to see your true colors shine right on through.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)My own definition of racism is simply "antipathy towards ethnic groups" and nothing else is racism. For example anti-Semitism would be "antipathy towards Jews". But perhaps my net is too wide, as the first definition includes a lot of Zionists. Maybe there is a way to combine having feelings of antipathy towards ethnic groups and not being a racist.
Perhaps you could help me out here?
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)what the definition of Zionism is - a belief that a Jewish state should exist. What you do with that information is your business.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)Try replacing "Jewish" with any other ethnicity and you'll find that it will be racist everytime.
a belief that a Jewish state should exist...
a belief that a Basque state should exist...
a belief that a German state should exist...
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)things - I also believe the Kurds deserve their own state, so do Tibetans. Where is your whining about all the Islamic states out there? Are they all racist also?
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)of ethnic exclusivity expressed in your previous post. No people can have a state of their own, it would mean that some persons living there would have to be excluded. I'm ideologically very much against all forms of nationalism, because in the end, it's always about exclusion.
BTW this is actually becoming a serious discussion - I though we were only exchanging insults...
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)allow minority religions to worship in peace. You can even get arrested in Saudi Arabia for carrying a bible. Yet your scorn seems to be saved for Israel alone - none of the Islamic states that we sell weapons to seem to get you as upset - only the one tiny Jewish state seems to do that. Perhaps that is something you should think about.
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)Little Tich
(6,171 posts)but where I live right now, in Australia, alll of them are racists. Anti-Islam is only a new way to hide an old hatred.
Stay away from anti-Islamism - you might become a racist without realizing it.
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)Being against Sharia law makes one human, not racist.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Can you possibly be serious?
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)They only feign being 'objective.'
JohnHarris
(14 posts)Bernie is great!