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King_David

(14,851 posts)
Mon Sep 28, 2015, 08:25 PM Sep 2015

Bernie Sanders introduces himself to the Jewish community in Iowa

-----------snip------------------------

Touting his Democratic-socialist values, the Jewish Senator compared himself to the first Prime Minister of the State of Israel. “I believe David Ben Gurion was a Democratic socialist,” he remarked when asked to differentiate between liberalism and his socialist views. He mentioned working at a kibbutz earlier in his life and visiting Israel as an elected official several times.

He also promised, “The security of Israel will be very important to me.” Adding that it goes without saying that Israelis must be guaranteed to live their lives with security without the fear of terror attacks. But he also emphasized, “At the end of the day what we are going to need is a two-state solution.”

Sanders repeated comments he had made in the past that his Judaism in the post-Holocaust era has shaped his policial philosophy in a “very deep way.”

“A guy named Adolf Hitler won an election in 1932. He won an election, and 50 million people died as a result of that election in World War II, including 6 million Jews. So what I learned as a little kid is that politics is, in fact, very important,” he asserted.
Adding: “Historically, the Jewish people have been strong advocates fighting discrimination and fighting for social and economic justice.”




http://www.jewishjournal.com/nation/article/bernie_sanders_introduces_himself_to_the_jewish_community_in_iowa

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Bernie Sanders introduces himself to the Jewish community in Iowa (Original Post) King_David Sep 2015 OP
Well said King_David Sep 2015 #1
Would fit better in GD:P, Dave Scootaloo Sep 2015 #2
Why? King_David Sep 2015 #3
Yup. Scootaloo Sep 2015 #5
Okay thanks King_David Sep 2015 #6
You didn't seem to care about this post in LBN Mosby Sep 2015 #4
The forum hosts had no problem with it either... Purveyor Sep 2015 #52
Kick King_David Sep 2015 #7
I like Bernie Sanders, but this could be seen as if he was a "Pussycat for Israel" in some way. Little Tich Sep 2015 #8
Not sure how 1 particular posters in this group King_David Sep 2015 #9
Do you think I would be worthy enough to be allowed to worship at Bernie Sanders' feet? Little Tich Sep 2015 #28
FWIW here's what Bernie said when asked if he is a Zionist, nothing he said in Iowa refutes this azurnoir Sep 2015 #10
So what? King_David Sep 2015 #11
would Hillary deny being a Zionist? Is Haim wasting his money on her? azurnoir Sep 2015 #12
Wishful thinking, King_David Sep 2015 #13
when it comes to beung a Zionist you're correct Bernie is on track with around 1/2 the posters in azurnoir Sep 2015 #14
Well if you're supportive of the Jewish State King_David Sep 2015 #15
I think Israel should exist the rest is interjection azurnoir Sep 2015 #16
ahem take note azurnoir Sep 2015 #17
Your views must of changed King_David Sep 2015 #19
are you aware of what Senate Resolution 498 was? The resolution that Sanders did not co-sponsor? azurnoir Sep 2015 #20
Desperately trying ? LOL King_David Sep 2015 #22
Lol Sanders is not listed amoung the 33 mostly Republican co-sponsors of S resolution 23 azurnoir Sep 2015 #23
Desperate King_David Sep 2015 #24
are you going to reply twice to this and then link to it too? azurnoir Sep 2015 #26
Bernie Sanders Stance On Israel Is More Of The Same Ole, Same Ole King_David Sep 2015 #30
some of his votes in support of Israel. King_David Sep 2015 #21
see post #23 azurnoir Sep 2015 #25
The Middle East Policy of President Bernie Sanders King_David Sep 2015 #31
Directly from Bernies site azurnoir Sep 2015 #32
That's not Bernie's site oberliner Sep 2015 #34
oh 'scuse me then Feel the Bern has no relation to Bernie Sanders I guess azurnoir Sep 2015 #35
That is what is posted on the page you linked to oberliner Sep 2015 #38
This message was self-deleted by its author King_David Sep 2015 #39
Odd that you think "supporting a two state solution" = being a "hawk on Israel" oberliner Sep 2015 #63
not at all odd who recently threatened war with Iran? azurnoir Sep 2015 #65
who threatened war with Iran :I will not hesitate to take military action" azurnoir Sep 2015 #70
Bernie Sanders: "the military option should always be on the table" oberliner Sep 2015 #75
Incomplete quote azurnoir Sep 2015 #77
As was your Hillary Clinton quote oberliner Sep 2015 #79
a clean up after the fact period IMO azurnoir Sep 2015 #81
You really do not understand ? King_David Sep 2015 #74
And some Jews believe that they speak for Bernie Sanders when it is clear that the Senator R. Daneel Olivaw Sep 2015 #18
Bernie believes in a two-state solution: oberliner Sep 2015 #27
"Bernie believes in a two-state solution" R. Daneel Olivaw Sep 2015 #43
Bernie is a person, Israel is a country oberliner Sep 2015 #44
The two-state solution is dead. R. Daneel Olivaw Sep 2015 #47
Bernie does not think so oberliner Sep 2015 #48
Netanbooboo killed Oslo long ago. R. Daneel Olivaw Sep 2015 #49
One-state and two-state are both dead? oberliner Sep 2015 #50
One state. Deal with it. R. Daneel Olivaw Sep 2015 #51
Your post says that one-state is dead oberliner Sep 2015 #56
Proved the point, a single issue antiZionist King_David Sep 2015 #55
Re-read post 43 while you're dancing around R. Daneel Olivaw Sep 2015 #62
Can you describe what the one-state will look like after BDS achieves its goals? oberliner Sep 2015 #73
Wrong question. R. Daneel Olivaw Sep 2015 #84
I am not asking to predict the future - I am asking what you hope the future will look like oberliner Sep 2015 #86
I don't speak for BDS since it is a global movement with many flavours. R. Daneel Olivaw Sep 2015 #89
But surely you must have your own opinions on the subject? oberliner Oct 2015 #100
Where some only see vauge platitudes others R. Daneel Olivaw Oct 2015 #104
BDS until what happens though? oberliner Oct 2015 #111
His refusal to say the "Z" word really balances out his refusal to say the "S" word. Little Tich Sep 2015 #29
yes and I cannot imagine Hillary giving the same sort of answer to the same question azurnoir Sep 2015 #33
Hillary Clinton: Two-state solution is 'best outcome' for Israelis, Palestinians oberliner Sep 2015 #37
Lol ask Hillary if she's a Zionist azurnoir Sep 2015 #58
What are the policy differences between Sanders and Clinton on I/P? oberliner Sep 2015 #60
nice way to dodge a question we all know the answer to:) azurnoir Sep 2015 #64
What's the answer? oberliner Sep 2015 #68
......... azurnoir Sep 2015 #71
Clinton was a strong supporter of the Iran deal oberliner Sep 2015 #76
...... azurnoir Sep 2015 #78
HRC: "...military action would only be a last resort after trying diplomatic routes first." oberliner Sep 2015 #80
lol are you going to continue to double up on your posts? making two posts about the same thing? azurnoir Sep 2015 #82
It's definitely confusing oberliner Sep 2015 #83
Bernie"keep military option on the table" Hillary "I will not hesitate to take military action" azurnoir Sep 2015 #85
"I'm not a pacifist, and I understand that sometimes you do have to go to war." (Sanders) oberliner Sep 2015 #87
from the same ezra klein interview where he would not state he is a Zionist azurnoir Sep 2015 #88
Guess your not sensitive to the fact Bernie Sanders is Jewish and anti Semites have accused him King_David Sep 2015 #72
Zionist is the second word that he says in the quotation oberliner Sep 2015 #36
I meant it in the context of him not saying "I'm a "Z"". Sorry for making you confused. n/t Little Tich Sep 2015 #40
His rhetorical question was exactly the right one oberliner Sep 2015 #41
Exactly King_David Sep 2015 #42
If he had said he was anti-Zionist, they would have a point oberliner Sep 2015 #45
Yes King_David Sep 2015 #46
It's not surprising leftynyc Sep 2015 #53
Agree 100% King_David Sep 2015 #54
No however when compared to 'other' candidates he is a dove in a world of hawks azurnoir Sep 2015 #59
What that has to leftynyc Sep 2015 #66
Nope hate to disappoint but that is not at all factual azurnoir Sep 2015 #57
Agreed oberliner Sep 2015 #61
An anti-Zionist will leftynyc Sep 2015 #67
What about Cynthia McKinney? oberliner Sep 2015 #69
She's no longer there is she? grossproffit Oct 2015 #92
No - but she served six terms in the House oberliner Oct 2015 #97
Absolutely, however leftynyc Oct 2015 #93
I can't really speak to her campaigns oberliner Oct 2015 #98
I looked up her record leftynyc Oct 2015 #102
She went off the deep end and lost reelection. I don't think she's all there. grossproffit Oct 2015 #107
Many people who are racists call themselves Zionists, including the current Israeli goverment. Little Tich Oct 2015 #90
Yes, it is your bias, that's talking. grossproffit Oct 2015 #91
Either you don't know leftynyc Oct 2015 #94
Or maybe my definition of racism is wrong... Little Tich Oct 2015 #95
You've been told over and over leftynyc Oct 2015 #96
That's the very definition of a racist ideology. Little Tich Oct 2015 #103
I have no problem with any of those leftynyc Oct 2015 #105
The crux here is the idea of a state of "their own" or any other form Little Tich Oct 2015 #108
Except NONE of the Islamic states leftynyc Oct 2015 #110
So, you're anti-Islamism, too, right? grossproffit Oct 2015 #106
I don't know if you actually have any anti-Islamists where you live, Little Tich Oct 2015 #109
Anti-Islamism isn't the same thing as being anti-Islam grossproffit Oct 2015 #112
You can't recall a single person who calls himself a Zionist who isn't a racist? oberliner Oct 2015 #99
Yeah, they are. grossproffit Oct 2015 #101
Bernie JohnHarris Oct 2015 #113
kick King_David Oct 2015 #114

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
8. I like Bernie Sanders, but this could be seen as if he was a "Pussycat for Israel" in some way.
Tue Sep 29, 2015, 11:51 AM
Sep 2015

If he promotes the two-state solution without mentioning the elephant in the room that makes it de facto impossible, then he's just another opportunistic politician paying lipservice to the two-state solution, while hoping the settlement shit bomb won't explode on his watch.

I still like Bernie Sanders, partially because I think he could be an honest broker in the Middle-East, but I don't think unconditional support is what Israel needs right now.

King_David

(14,851 posts)
9. Not sure how 1 particular posters in this group
Tue Sep 29, 2015, 12:25 PM
Sep 2015

Who is a single issue AntiZionist, with the most extremist anti Israel rhetoric and has a Bernie Avatar, could possibly support Bernie.

Go Bernie Go,Kol Hakavod.

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
28. Do you think I would be worthy enough to be allowed to worship at Bernie Sanders' feet?
Tue Sep 29, 2015, 09:33 PM
Sep 2015

After all, even though my support for him isn't unconditional and I question some of the things he does, I sincerely think he would be an excellent POTUS....

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
10. FWIW here's what Bernie said when asked if he is a Zionist, nothing he said in Iowa refutes this
Tue Sep 29, 2015, 02:30 PM
Sep 2015
A Zionist? What does that mean? Want to define what the word is? Do I think Israel has the right to exist? Yeah, I do. Do I believe that the United States should be playing an even-handed role in terms of its dealings with the Palestinian community in Israel? Absolutely I do.

“Again, I think that you have volatile regions in the world, the Middle East is one of them, and the United States has got to work with other countries around the world to fight for Israel’s security and existence at the same time as we fight for a Palestinian state where the people in that country can enjoy a decent standard of living, which is certainly not the case right now. My long-term hope is that instead of pouring so much military aid into Israel, into Egypt, we can provide more economic aid to help improve the standard of living of the people in that area.”




http://www.jta.org/2015/08/17/news-opinion/politics/where-does-bernie-sanders-the-jewish-candidate-for-president-stand-on-israel

King_David

(14,851 posts)
11. So what?
Tue Sep 29, 2015, 04:08 PM
Sep 2015

Some Jews believe the definition of a Zionist is someone who goes on Aliyah- period !

You keep quoting that as if Bernie meant something else... Some kind of wishful thinking.... LOL

Bernie Sanders will be the first Jewish President and already is very strong supporter of Israel.

A more enthusiastic supporter of the Jewish state than any other candidate currently running for president. The only candidate to have lived in Israel.

Bernie Sanders compares himself to David Ben Gurion - one of Zionisms foremost HERO...

His views on Israel are identical to half the posters here in this group and absolutely opposite of the ones sporting Bernie Sanders avatars ..... Ha ha ha ha ha ha

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
12. would Hillary deny being a Zionist? Is Haim wasting his money on her?
Tue Sep 29, 2015, 04:11 PM
Sep 2015

and if I may ask who do you support in 2016 election?

why do you consistently pretend that Bernie Sanders is a hawk on Israel ?

you do realize most of Bernies supporters are more well informed than that

and lastly I could swear you said you'd run this in General Discussion Primaries today but I've yet to see it there

King_David

(14,851 posts)
13. Wishful thinking,
Tue Sep 29, 2015, 04:35 PM
Sep 2015

Bernie Sanders stance on Israel and voting record are 100% in sync with half the posters in this group....and 100% polar opposite to half the group, especially those sporting Bernie Sanders Avatars
( hilariously so)

There is a poster in this group that goes on and on about BDS , Apartheid , the most extreme antiZionist rhetoric etc etc that Bernie Sanders would have absolutely nothing to do with and he sports a Bernie Sanders Avatar.( strangely )

I never posted it above as you have seen for yourself what happens with some Jewish themes posts... Especially one where Bernie reveals one of his Hero's to be one of the worlds best known Jewish Zionist Hero the last century ever saw.(Ben Gurion)

Go Bernie Go....

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
14. when it comes to beung a Zionist you're correct Bernie is on track with around 1/2 the posters in
Tue Sep 29, 2015, 06:02 PM
Sep 2015

this group- especially me

eta you seem to ignore my query about Hillary and where is it that you wish Bernie to go?

King_David

(14,851 posts)
15. Well if you're supportive of the Jewish State
Tue Sep 29, 2015, 06:13 PM
Sep 2015

And Israel's place as a very special friend of the USA and support Israel's right to exist in peace and security and free of terrorism... Then I guess so...

If you thought Hamas was to blame in the last Gaza war and supported Israel in its self defense and destruction of terror tunnels as Bernie did....

As well as supporting Israel and Obama but not Netanyahu and consider David Ben Gurion a personal Hero (one of the greatest Jewish Zionist Heros of the last century)

Welcome to our side....

Your views must of changed .

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
17. ahem take note
Tue Sep 29, 2015, 06:30 PM
Sep 2015

On Israel, meanwhile, Sanders’s record is a mixed bag. In particular, last summer’s conflict in Gaza brought to light his complex feelings on the Arab-Israeli conflict. Sanders was one of 21 of 100 U.S. senators not to sign on as a co-sponsor to Senate Resolution 498, which expressed support for Israel “as it defends itself against unprovoked rocket attack from Hamas.”

But during a town hall meeting last August in Cabot, Vt., when Sanders was verbally attacked by pro-Palestinian activists who yelled expletives at him for condemning Hamas for firing rockets at Israeli civilians, Sanders responded to the hecklers with pro-Israel comments.

“You have a situation where Hamas is sending missiles into Israel… and you know where some of those missiles are coming from? They’re coming from populated areas,” Sanders said. “Hamas is very clear. Their view is that Israel should not have a right to exist.”

After the activists replied to him, “Bullshit, F**k Israel,” Sanders went on to explain that there are more pressing issues in the Middle East, such as the Islamic State terror group, which he condemned for attempting to turn parts of Iraq and Syria into a “7th Century caliphate” that is suppressing women’s rights.

During the same meeting, however, Sanders described Israel’s Operation Protective Edge in Gaza as an “overreaction.”

“His statement blaming Israel for ‘overreacting’ to Hamas missiles, incitement, and terror tunnels is worrisome,” Troy told JNS.org.

http://www.jns.org/latest-articles/2015/7/19/for-bernie-sanders-jewish-presidential-contender-is-israel-on-the-radar#.VgsQLvlViko=

King_David

(14,851 posts)
19. Your views must of changed
Tue Sep 29, 2015, 06:53 PM
Sep 2015

Meanwhile the rest of the posters here with Bernie Sanders avatars calling for BDS daily and calling Israel an apartheid state and calling out Israel for protecting itself during Gaza operations etc etc... WTF would they support someone like Bernie Sanders with views on Israel so diametrically opposite to the extremist "antiZionist" views they express here on a daily basis - against the Jewish state.

Boggles the mind.

Why can't they be honest like their Heros at Mondoweiss ?


http://www.democraticunderground.com/1134113241

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
20. are you aware of what Senate Resolution 498 was? The resolution that Sanders did not co-sponsor?
Tue Sep 29, 2015, 07:07 PM
Sep 2015

Last edited Wed Sep 30, 2015, 12:44 AM - Edit history (1)

here it is the vote was taken 7/17/14 during Operation Protective Edge

S.Res.498 - A resolution expressing the sense of the Senate regarding United States support for the State of Israel as it defends itself against unprovoked rocket attacks from the Hamas terrorist organization.


https://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/senate-resolution/498/cosponsors

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
23. Lol Sanders is not listed amoung the 33 mostly Republican co-sponsors of S resolution 23
Tue Sep 29, 2015, 07:28 PM
Sep 2015
https://www.congress.gov/bill/112th-congress/senate-concurrent-resolution/23/all-info

as you claim in your link all of the bills mention are at least 4+ years old BTW

21. some of his votes in support of Israel.

S. Res. 138: calling on the United Nations to rescind the Goldstone report, formally known as the UN Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict, which accused the Israeli government of targeting Palestinian civilians.S. Res. 185: reaffirming the commitment of the US to a negotiated settlement of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and calling for a US veto of any UN resolution on Palestinian statehood without a settlement.
S. Con. Res. 23: supporting Israel in maintaining defensible borders, and against Israel returning to the armistice lines that existed on June 4, 1967

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1134110822#post8


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=113926


King_David

(14,851 posts)
24. Desperate
Tue Sep 29, 2015, 07:30 PM
Sep 2015

Touting his Democratic-socialist values, the Jewish Senator compared himself to the first Prime Minister of the State of Israel. “I believe David Ben Gurion was a Democratic socialist,” he remarked when asked to differentiate between liberalism and his socialist views. He mentioned working at a kibbutz earlier in his life and visiting Israel as an elected official several times.

He also promised, “The security of Israel will be very important to me.” Adding that it goes without saying that Israelis must be guaranteed to live their lives with security without the fear of terror attacks. But he also emphasized, “At the end of the day what we are going to need is a two-state solution.”

Sanders repeated comments he had made in the past that his Judaism in the post-Holocaust era has shaped his policial philosophy in a “very deep way.”

King_David

(14,851 posts)
30. Bernie Sanders Stance On Israel Is More Of The Same Ole, Same Ole
Tue Sep 29, 2015, 11:12 PM
Sep 2015
WASHINGTON — Bernie Sanders is often perceived as an “alternative” to presidential candidates more concerned with pleasing their Wall Street donors than voters. But when it comes to his stance on Israel and Palestine, the independent senator from Vermont, who is running for president as a Democrat, begins to look less decisively different than the rest of the pack.

Sanders made headlines in August, when a dialogue with pro-Palestine human rights activists at a Vermont town hall boiled over into frustration after Sanders chided Israel for its actions rather than condemning its many war crimes. The interaction occurred near the end of Israel’s brutal assault on the people of Gaza last summer, during which Israeli soldiers deliberately targeted hospitals and U.N. shelters and killed thousands of civilians. Last July, Sanders joined the rest of the U.S. Senate by unanimously voting to support Israel’s actions.

The conversation was captured on video and widely circulated. Writing in April for Bustle, Chris Tognotti summarized the breakdown in communication:

“Basically, as Sanders explained his view — he claimed that Israel ‘overreacted’ and wrongly bombed U.N. facilities, but the country was also faced with Hamas-fired rockets shot from populated areas — he was met with an angry interruption. Before you know it, he was yelling ‘shut up,’ and a woman in the back of the room was yelling ‘F**k Israel!’ It was ugly.”

Philip Weiss, of Mondoweiss, reported that Sanders “brings ISIS out of nowhere into the discussion” in a strained attempt to defend the militarism of the state of Israel — militarism supported by billions in U.S. aid annually.

-----------------------------snip-------------------------------

Until Sanders makes newer statements, voters must assume that all major 2016 candidates support Israel’s occupation of Palestine and Israel’s apartheid policies, with third parties representing the only real alternative.

http://www.mintpressnews.com/bernie-sanders-stance-on-israel-is-more-of-the-same-ole-same-ole/207529/



This is the garbage junk nonsense what the people in this group , the ones sporting Bernie Sanders Avatars spout here every

day....


BERNIE to Victory ......

King_David

(14,851 posts)
21. some of his votes in support of Israel.
Tue Sep 29, 2015, 07:07 PM
Sep 2015

S. Res. 138: calling on the United Nations to rescind the Goldstone report, formally known as the UN Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict, which accused the Israeli government of targeting Palestinian civilians.S. Res. 185: reaffirming the commitment of the US to a negotiated settlement of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and calling for a US veto of any UN resolution on Palestinian statehood without a settlement.
S. Con. Res. 23: supporting Israel in maintaining defensible borders, and against Israel returning to the armistice lines that existed on June 4, 1967

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1134110822#post8

King_David

(14,851 posts)
31. The Middle East Policy of President Bernie Sanders
Tue Sep 29, 2015, 11:17 PM
Sep 2015

Bernie Sanders opposed the 2003 invasion of Iraq and subsequent occupation of that country.
Sanders wanted to get out of Afghanistan from 2011 much faster than the timetable announced by President Obama. Obama has now more or less extended a US military presence in Afghanistan, advertised as a training mission, indefinitely. My reading of Sanders is that he would get out of that country entirely.
A President Bernie Sanders would endorse the Iran negotiations of the Obama administration. He said of the talks,
“While much more work remains to be done this framework is an important step forward. It is imperative that Iran not get a nuclear weapon. It also is imperative that we do everything we can to reach a diplomatic solution and avoid never-ending war in the Middle East. I look forward to examining the details of this agreement and making sure that it is effective ?and strong.”
Note that Sanders accepts the Washington consensus that Iran is trying to get a nuclear weapon, which Iran denies. Sanders has slammed the GOP obstructionists of the talks for “itching” for a war with Iran. He himself says that a war with Iran should be avoided ‘at all costs.’ However, it is not clear what he would do if the current talks broke down and he became convinced as president that the Iranians had developed a nuclear weapons program.
Sanders opposed the US taking the lead in the aerial campaign against Daesh (ISIS or ISIL) in Iraq and Syria, asking where the Arabs were and saying that American kids shouldn’t be dying to protect Saudi Arabia. The money spent on that bombing, he said, should have gone to help the US middle classes.
But Sanders also did say that the US should be “supportive” of the Gulf Cooperation Council and Jordan and Iraq in their campaigns against Daesh. It is not clear to me what this stance implies. Should the US do less bombing and insist the GCC do more? But that there should be some US bombing is not in question?

http://www.juancole.com/2015/04/president-bernie-sanders.html


This is what I think of Juan Cole trashing Bernie:



Fuck Juan Cole

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
32. Directly from Bernies site
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 12:36 AM
Sep 2015
Well, Bernie’s Jewish and his family died in the Holocaust. He must support Israel over the Palestinians, right?
No. Bernie doesn’t “support” Israel over the Palestinians. He believes both have the right to exist, stating:

“…the bottom line is that Israel must have the right to exist in peace and security, just as the Palestinians must have the right to a homeland in which they and they alone control their political system and their economy.”


http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-israel-and-the-palestinians/

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
34. That's not Bernie's site
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 05:32 AM
Sep 2015

In fact on the front page it says:

This website was built & is maintained by volunteers with no official relation to Bernie Sanders.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
35. oh 'scuse me then Feel the Bern has no relation to Bernie Sanders I guess
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 05:35 AM
Sep 2015

then what was your point in using it?

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
38. That is what is posted on the page you linked to
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 05:45 AM
Sep 2015

It's at the very bottom.

This website was built & is maintained by volunteers with no official relation to Bernie Sanders.
We’re regular people, unassociated with any Super PACs or billionaires.

© 2015 FEELTHEBERN.ORG

Response to azurnoir (Reply #32)

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
63. Odd that you think "supporting a two state solution" = being a "hawk on Israel"
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 04:32 PM
Sep 2015

All anyone is saying is that Bernie Sanders supports a two state solution - which is apparently an unpopular position among some here.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
70. who threatened war with Iran :I will not hesitate to take military action"
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 04:51 PM
Sep 2015


starts at 12:36, she also throws in Hamas and Hezbollah as caveats for suport of the deal, even though they are not part of deal
 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
75. Bernie Sanders: "the military option should always be on the table"
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 05:09 PM
Sep 2015

Pretty much the same sentiments from both candidates who, incidentally, both are strong supporters of the Iran deal.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
77. Incomplete quote
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 05:36 PM
Sep 2015
Yes, the military option should always be on the table, but it should be the last option. We have got to do everything we can do to reach an agreement to ensure that Iran does not get a nuclear weapon without having to go to war.

I believe we have an obligation to pursue diplomatic solutions before resorting to military engagement – especially after nearly fourteen years of ill-conceived and disastrous military engagements in the region.
 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
79. As was your Hillary Clinton quote
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 05:41 PM
Sep 2015

“The United States will never allow you to acquire a nuclear weapon,” Clinton said during remarks at the Brookings Institution in Washington, D.C Wednesday morning, in a message aimed directly at Iran’s leaders. “As president I will take whatever actions are necessary to protect the U.S. and its allies. I will not hesitate to take military action.”

The democratic presidential candidate, who says she supports the Iran nuclear deal as “part of a larger strategy” for dealing with Iran, explained that military action would only be a last resort after trying diplomatic routes first.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/hillary-clinton-hesitate-military-action-iran-attempts-nuclear/story?id=33630243

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
18. And some Jews believe that they speak for Bernie Sanders when it is clear that the Senator
Tue Sep 29, 2015, 06:53 PM
Sep 2015

can speak for himself. And his words are clear.
No need for "so what."

Not sure how 1 particular poster in this group with the most myopic pro Israel rhetoric could possibly believe that she speaks for Senator Sanders.

The Senator's record is clear, and we do not need some posters assume they know the candidates mind when he has told us, and is on record.
 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
27. Bernie believes in a two-state solution:
Tue Sep 29, 2015, 08:23 PM
Sep 2015

“The hatred, violence and loss of life that define this conflict make living an ordinary life a constant struggle for both peoples. We must work with those Israeli and Palestinian leaders who are committed to peace, security and statehood rather than to empty rhetoric and violence. A two-state solution must include compromises from both sides to achieve a fair and lasting peace in the region. The Palestinians must fulfill their responsibilities to end terrorism against Israel and recognize Israel’s right to exist. In return, the Israelis must end their policy of targeted killings, prevent further Israeli settlements on Palestinian land and prevent the destruction of Palestinian homes, businesses and infrastructure.”

http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-israel-and-the-palestinians/

Do you agree with his remarks?

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
43. "Bernie believes in a two-state solution"
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 11:12 AM
Sep 2015

Israel doesn't.

Israel has been practicing land theft.

Israel has been practicing illegal colonization.

Israel has been practicing ethnic cleansing.

Israel has been practicing apartheid.


That puts Israel at odds with the USA.
 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
44. Bernie is a person, Israel is a country
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 11:49 AM
Sep 2015

Many individual Israelis believe in a two-state solution, as Bernie does. This includes members of the Israeli Knesset.

We need to support those Israelis who advocate for two states, as Bernie does.

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
47. The two-state solution is dead.
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 12:44 PM
Sep 2015

But it is a pleasant lie for the gasbarists to dredge up to feign caring.

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
49. Netanbooboo killed Oslo long ago.
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 01:22 PM
Sep 2015

He has admitted that there will never be a Palestinian state.

If Senator Sanders is elected POTUS, then I hope that his actions on Israel are as fair as his words have been against the corporate elite.

The one-state solution is dead.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
56. Your post says that one-state is dead
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 03:28 PM
Sep 2015

I'm assuming now that it was a typo.

In any case, what do you think this one state is going to be like?

King_David

(14,851 posts)
55. Proved the point, a single issue antiZionist
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 03:09 PM
Sep 2015

With a Bernie Sanders avatar , says he disagrees with Bernie Sanders on that single issue .

LOL



Do you "get" it ?

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
62. Re-read post 43 while you're dancing around
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 04:25 PM
Sep 2015

the facts of the matter.

Bernie may be for a 2 state solution, but Israel isn't, Netanbooboo isn't and the hasbarists just pay lip service to it: keeping the status quo in place.

Looks like Abu Mazzen just acknowledged that sbd has waljed away.

1 State here we go...
 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
73. Can you describe what the one-state will look like after BDS achieves its goals?
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 05:04 PM
Sep 2015

Generally what will be the key components of this state?

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
84. Wrong question.
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 06:20 PM
Sep 2015

Can I describe what the one-state will look like after Israel has to admit it can't take the West Bank but keep voting rights from Palestinians?

I can't predict the future, but with the present fundamental/zionist regime it will most likely be ugly.
 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
86. I am not asking to predict the future - I am asking what you hope the future will look like
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 07:49 PM
Sep 2015

What sort of one-state would be cause for the BDS community to celebrate a job well done?

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
89. I don't speak for BDS since it is a global movement with many flavours.
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 10:21 PM
Sep 2015

I would hope for Democracy to prevail, but democracy is messy.
 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
100. But surely you must have your own opinions on the subject?
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 08:52 AM
Oct 2015

Something beyond vague platitudes about democracy maybe?

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
29. His refusal to say the "Z" word really balances out his refusal to say the "S" word.
Tue Sep 29, 2015, 09:43 PM
Sep 2015

I consider that a positive thing.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
37. Hillary Clinton: Two-state solution is 'best outcome' for Israelis, Palestinians
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 05:43 AM
Sep 2015

GREENVILLE, S.C. (Reuters) - U.S. Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton on Thursday said a two-state solution for Israel and the Palestinians was the only resolution to the conflict there.

http://news.yahoo.com/hillary-clinton-two-state-solution-best-outcome-israelis-200519501.html

Same position for both candidates.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
60. What are the policy differences between Sanders and Clinton on I/P?
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 04:10 PM
Sep 2015

Can you identify one or two?

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
64. nice way to dodge a question we all know the answer to:)
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 04:36 PM
Sep 2015

why is Haim Saban pledging money to Hillary and not Bernie?

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
68. What's the answer?
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 04:49 PM
Sep 2015

I have no idea what Hillary would say if she was asked that question.

I think Saban is donating to Hillary and not Bernie because he thinks she will win and because Bernie doesn't generally take money from super rich people. Millionaires and Billionaires are not really Bernie's base.

My view is that Sanders and Clinton basically have the same position with respect to I/P. Certainly Sanders has a position that supports the two-state solution (as Hillary does).

If everyone who had a Sanders image or logo as their avatar adopted his POV on I/P then there wouldn't be posts supportive of BDS and in opposition to the two-state solution.

But obviously, folks are certainly free to disagree with Sanders on those subjects. It just seems like if people like his other views, maybe they should consider his views on this subject as well.


 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
76. Clinton was a strong supporter of the Iran deal
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 05:11 PM
Sep 2015

And Bernie Sanders (also a strong supporter of the Iran deal) has said that the military option should always be on the table.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
80. HRC: "...military action would only be a last resort after trying diplomatic routes first."
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 05:43 PM
Sep 2015

At least let's be honest and not try to play games.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
82. lol are you going to continue to double up on your posts? making two posts about the same thing?
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 05:46 PM
Sep 2015

it does nicely to build a compatriots comment count doesn't it?

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
83. It's definitely confusing
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 06:05 PM
Sep 2015

I forgot that we were having the same discussion in the same thread!

Anyway, I think I've adequately demonstrated the point.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
85. Bernie"keep military option on the table" Hillary "I will not hesitate to take military action"
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 07:49 PM
Sep 2015

one keeps it as a possibility the other says attack is definite

I will not hesitate to take military action"

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
87. "I'm not a pacifist, and I understand that sometimes you do have to go to war." (Sanders)
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 08:02 PM
Sep 2015

They are on the same page. They both wholeheartedly support the Iran deal and the use of diplomacy to prevent Iran from getting nuclear weapons - which they both state is an "absolute imperative".

Sanders: I applaud Secretary Kerry for their enormously difficult work of trying to reach out an agreement with the P5+1 in Iran, to try to figure out how we can prevent Iran from getting a nuclear weapon, which to me is an absolute imperative,

King_David

(14,851 posts)
72. Guess your not sensitive to the fact Bernie Sanders is Jewish and anti Semites have accused him
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 04:54 PM
Sep 2015
of dual loyalty ?



Guess it never occurred to you how a Jew in such a situation can not shout from the hilltops that he is a Zionist or not ?

Not sure how Hillary would react or not but you do seem clueless on how Jews in such situations would have to be more cautious.
 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
36. Zionist is the second word that he says in the quotation
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 05:36 AM
Sep 2015

He asks, rhetorically, what it means.

Weird that you would claim he refuses to say a word in response to a post that quotes him saying that word.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
41. His rhetorical question was exactly the right one
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 09:55 AM
Sep 2015

So many people have decided to make Zionism mean so many different things that I think it is wise for him to understand what a particular questioner means by the word. If you meant it was smart for him to avoid calling himself a Zionist in that respect then I completely agree with you.

King_David

(14,851 posts)
42. Exactly
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 10:59 AM
Sep 2015

Posters here are making his reply into a meaning that it clearly is not. Their wishful thinking is that Bernie Sanders said something he clearly did not.

For example End days Christian Right wingers call themselves Zionists when clearly they are not.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
45. If he had said he was anti-Zionist, they would have a point
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 11:50 AM
Sep 2015

But that is not what he said.

I do think that people are imposing their own views of what they would like Bernie's to be instead of reflecting on what his stated views actually are.

King_David

(14,851 posts)
46. Yes
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 12:40 PM
Sep 2015

That's why it's surprising that those posting in our group that do have Bernie avatars have diametrically opposite views on Israel to the senator and almost the rest of us have almost identical views on Israel as Bernie Sanders does.

It's good he's getting their support though if indeed they vote for Democratic Party candidates- the more votes he gets the better as far as I'm concerned.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
53. It's not surprising
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 02:37 PM
Sep 2015

Those posters often like to fool themselves into thinking they would be voting for a President who thinks like they do on the I/P issue. They just refuse to believe poll after poll after poll that tells them the American people - including those we vote for - are STRONGLY pro-Israel. They don't trust the Palestinian leadership (hamas or abbas for good reason) and they never will. Let them have their delusions.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
66. What that has to
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 04:43 PM
Sep 2015

do with the fact he's a strong supporter of Israel is anybody's guess. But go ahead and get your comfort from where you can.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
93. Absolutely, however
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 04:56 AM
Oct 2015

that's not what she ran on, nobody talked about her feelings about the issue and when it was brought out, she didn't even win her primary (for which she and her father blamed the Jews). Her feelings about Jews is what did her in. I'm not even sure the I/P issue came up.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
98. I can't really speak to her campaigns
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 08:42 AM
Oct 2015

I don't think she made a secret of her feelings about Israel, though, if it ever came up.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
102. I looked up her record
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 09:24 AM
Oct 2015

on votes and until she voted against Israeli aid in 2002 (the same year she lost her primary), there is nothing to be found on her feelings about Jews or Israel. Looks like as soon as she made her feelings clear, she was kicked to the curb.

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
90. Many people who are racists call themselves Zionists, including the current Israeli goverment.
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 02:09 AM
Oct 2015

Perhaps Bernie Sanders don't want to be connected to that.

Come to think of it though, I can't recall a single person who calls himself a Zionist who isn't a racist. Perhaps it's my bias talking, as I consider Zionism to be a racist ideology, but still...

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
94. Either you don't know
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 05:00 AM
Oct 2015

what the definition of Zionist is or your bias is showing. Frankly, I don't care which. But how nice to see your true colors shine right on through.

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
95. Or maybe my definition of racism is wrong...
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 06:49 AM
Oct 2015

My own definition of racism is simply "antipathy towards ethnic groups" and nothing else is racism. For example anti-Semitism would be "antipathy towards Jews". But perhaps my net is too wide, as the first definition includes a lot of Zionists. Maybe there is a way to combine having feelings of antipathy towards ethnic groups and not being a racist.

Perhaps you could help me out here?

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
96. You've been told over and over
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 07:39 AM
Oct 2015

what the definition of Zionism is - a belief that a Jewish state should exist. What you do with that information is your business.

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
103. That's the very definition of a racist ideology.
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 09:51 AM
Oct 2015

Try replacing "Jewish" with any other ethnicity and you'll find that it will be racist everytime.

a belief that a Jewish state should exist...

a belief that a Basque state should exist...

a belief that a German state should exist...

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
105. I have no problem with any of those
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 10:14 AM
Oct 2015

things - I also believe the Kurds deserve their own state, so do Tibetans. Where is your whining about all the Islamic states out there? Are they all racist also?

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
108. The crux here is the idea of a state of "their own" or any other form
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 12:05 PM
Oct 2015

of ethnic exclusivity expressed in your previous post. No people can have a state of their own, it would mean that some persons living there would have to be excluded. I'm ideologically very much against all forms of nationalism, because in the end, it's always about exclusion.

BTW this is actually becoming a serious discussion - I though we were only exchanging insults...

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
110. Except NONE of the Islamic states
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 01:50 PM
Oct 2015

allow minority religions to worship in peace. You can even get arrested in Saudi Arabia for carrying a bible. Yet your scorn seems to be saved for Israel alone - none of the Islamic states that we sell weapons to seem to get you as upset - only the one tiny Jewish state seems to do that. Perhaps that is something you should think about.

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
109. I don't know if you actually have any anti-Islamists where you live,
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 12:31 PM
Oct 2015

but where I live right now, in Australia, alll of them are racists. Anti-Islam is only a new way to hide an old hatred.

Stay away from anti-Islamism - you might become a racist without realizing it.

grossproffit

(5,591 posts)
112. Anti-Islamism isn't the same thing as being anti-Islam
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 04:54 PM
Oct 2015

Being against Sharia law makes one human, not racist.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
99. You can't recall a single person who calls himself a Zionist who isn't a racist?
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 08:47 AM
Oct 2015

Can you possibly be serious?

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