Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumThe real problem with Netanyahu's mufti speech
By calling the Palestinians Nazis, the Israeli prime minister was saying they can never be negotiated with that Israel must fight them to the bloody end.
Despite the festival of mockery taking place on social media, Benjamin Netanyahu clearly does not believe that Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini is more responsible than Hitler for the Holocaust. (Although that is exactly what the prime minister said in his speech at the World Zionist Conference on Tuesday.) Netanyahu is a smart guy who knows World War II history better than most of his critics. The idea that the mufti is responsible for the extermination of European Jewry is completely absurd, and Netanyahu knows that. Just like he explained the next day, he wasnt even talking about the Nazis, and he certainly never meant to absolve them for the Holocaust. The prime minister was trying to make a statement about the Palestinians and thats the real problem.
Saying that the Palestinians are Nazis very much like the comparison between Israel and the Nazis has no place in a fact-based or historically accurate discourse. That should go without saying. The only reason to do so would be to illustrate that it is impossible to negotiate, or even speak with, the other side that they must be fought to the bloody end. That is the historical historical context and significance of comparing somebody to the Nazis. They are one of the few regimes in all of history whose illegitimacy is absolute to everyone in the world. Even those who had the most remote ties with the Nazis, even those who tried to make deals with them to save Jews, were later classified as traitors. Because one wages only war against Nazis. Look at every WWII film ever made there is no such thing as a good Nazi.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)"Saying that the Palestinians are Nazis very much like the comparison between Israel and the Nazis has no place in a fact-based or historically accurate discourse. That should go without saying."
Very well said.
Yet, sadly, we see both such comparisons being made way too frequently, even here at DU.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Please post these "Israel are Nazis" posts since it afainst the TOS I believe.
Thanks in advance.
But speaking specifically to the OP...
This sentiment was made by the leader of Israel, and I do not believe that it was a gaffe. I believe that it was an intentional bigoted attack on all Palestinians to make them synonymous with Nazis: clearly a very evil thing in and of itself.
Those that stand in defense of Netanyahu deserve to be outed for the closeted bigots they are.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)How about this example:
"Israel is a demonstrably volatile anomaly that only exists in its current state because of massive republican support, particularly among military lines, as well as Reaganesque-conservative manipulation through the Mossad that, strikingly, resembles the very regime that precipitated the formation of the Israeli state in the first place: Nazi Germany.
...
Therefore, we must surgically be careful, but we MUST destroy any capabilities of Israeli nazis from terrorizing the mideastern region and rectify its political, emotional, and spirtual growth by eliminating the American GOP influence from its life source. Once that occurs, we can effect progressive, humane change."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=7773
Associating a country or a people with Nazi Germany is an intentionally bigoted attack (We can agree on that).
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Account status: Posting privileges revoked
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A troll from 2013 doesn't really stack up against the leader of Israel.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)shaayecanaan (6,068 posts)
97. its quite similar, actually
israel/hitler annexed chunks of the west bank/sudetenland, prevented palestinians/czechs from entering and encouraged instead ethnic Germans/Jews to move to those annexed areas
oberliner (32,593 posts)
99. Some people really like introducing Hitler/Nazis into this discussion
It seems to be a favorite comparison for some folks for some reason.
R. Daneel Olivaw (10,324 posts)
100. Well, when the boot fits...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=93153
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
102. Oh, Israel is similar to many repressive regimes.
They all have their similarities with having a perceived sub-group they can abuse and scapegoat, IMHO.
The 19th century Americans had the First Nations, African Slaves, Chinese, Irish, Italians...etc.
The British had the Scotts and Irish.
The French had the Vietnamese.
The Russians had their serfs.
The Germans had everybody.
The Khmer Rouge had the educated.
The Israelis have the Palestinians.
shira
(30,109 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)As is usual, some just have to make false claims, shira, by omission.
Someday, you'll learn.
shira
(30,109 posts)...that leads anyone reading it to see Israel / Nazi parallels.
It should have never been posted on a liberal board.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Historian Ilan Pappe has called it incremental genocide:
Israels present assault on Gaza, alas, indicates that this policy continues unabated. The term is important since it appropriately locates Israels barbaric actionthen and nowwithin a wider historical context.
A top Brazilian diplomat agrees:
For the love of God, what we have here is genocide, a massacre, to the point where top UN officials are starting to talk about war crimes against Palestinians, Brazils Special Adviser for International Relations Marco Aurelio García told reporters.
---
Naomi Wolf states:
I mourn genocide in Gaza because I am the granddaughter of a family half wiped out in a holocaust and I know genocide when I see it
And again, you omit the very pertinent facts of the article...cherry pick...to create your false narrative-tin god.
Bad form that.
shira
(30,109 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)I mourn genocide in Gaza because I am the granddaughter of a family half wiped out in a holocaust and I know genocide when I see it.
Now if you can find me writing that Israel are mondern-day Nazis, then you are on to something.
But just to be clear, I am not the one whining that colonizing Israeli Jews, under the watch of the IDF gunner, should wrongfully take land in Palestine since their 10th great granddaddy many have lived there once.
shira
(30,109 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)But you above all should know this.
Perhaps after you stop complaining and looking for anti-Semites under the stairs?
shira
(30,109 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)to the mix, it was in a link from one of your own compatriots that brought the subject up, the subject of the subthread concerned forced transfer of civilian populations
http://www.democraticunderground.com/113492722
btw it is IMO rather unseemly to call out someone who has not posted in nearly 4 months
shira
(30,109 posts)But nice try.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)But since their defense of Netanyahu has fallen on its face they need their scapegoats.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)103. OK
That helps to get a fuller sense of where you are coming from.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw (10,326 posts)
93. Sometimes the despot fits, poor shira.
But let's be honest.
Great tyrants have always moved their population(s) and way of life in to fill the needs of empire.
The Romans moved their citizens in to choice areas and other people out. See 70 AD for reference.
The English did it.
The Russians did it.
The Nazis did it.
Israel is just fulfilling its own empire in the same way as other regimes have done in the past.
TubbersUK
(1,439 posts)What I heard in Bibi's perverse view of the Mufti and the Holocaust was this argument: you see, the Palestinians wanted to kill us even then when we were not settling their land. So even if we abandoned the settlements now they would still want to kill us. So settlement and eventual annexation are justified.
That's what I heard too.
Never mind that the Mufti spoke for himself, not the Palestinian people, and never mind that the Palestinians who lived then are not the Palestinians who are alive now. Nor are the Israelis the same as they were. What is clear is that the elder Netanyahu was an incorrigible racist, and I suspect his son is too.
Hard to argue with that.
shira
(30,109 posts)...when they incite their people to attack & murder innocents?
Who are "they"....those who are inciting and those doing the murdering?
What do we call "them" in all honesty?
=============
All I see in Netanyahu's speech is a call-out to the Palestinian leadership & extremists they are inciting.
Besides, the reverse happens every day (with Israel haters) when all Zionist leadership and all Zionists for that matter are portrayed as evil rightwing racists who want Palestinians gone or dead. There's plenty of that going on here at DU, and not just in the I/P forum.
shira
(30,109 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)There is certainly no historian who would dispute that.
shira
(30,109 posts)That's one helluva an accomplishment.
Of course he's being condemned more for his historical revision than Abbas for his incitement to murder.
Strange times.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Pretty sure the feeling is mutual.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)the detailing of connecting all Palestinians to the Holocaust
shira
(30,109 posts)As he should, since the Palestinian LEADERSHIP idolizes Hitler's favorite Mufti.
If you think that's an attack on all Palestinians, then all the hostile criticism of Israeli leadership is also an attempt to demonize an entire people. Using the same illogic, of course.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)MEMRI says so or is it CAMERA maybe PMW it escapes me
and