2,000-year-old Maccabean-era fortress unearthed in Jerusalem after century-long search

[shira]

Acra fortification, built by Hanukkah villain Antiochus IV Epiphanes, maintained Seleucid Greek control over Temple until its conquest by Hasmoneans in 141 BCE



In what archaeologists are describing as “a solution to one of the great archaeological riddles in the history of Jerusalem,” researchers with the Israel Antiquities Authority announced Tuesday that they have found the remnants of a fortress used by the Seleucid Greek king Antiochus Epiphanes in his siege of Jerusalem in 168 BCE.

A section of fortification was discovered under the Givati parking lot in the City of David south of the Old City walls and the Temple Mount. The fortification is believed to have been part of a system of defenses known as the Acra fortress, built by Antiochus as he sought to quell a Jewish priestly rebellion centered on the Temple.

Antiochus is remembered in the Jewish tradition as the villain of the Hanukkah holiday who sought to ban Jewish religious rites, sparking the Maccabean revolt....

...The discovery of the Acra’s foundations ends over a century of intense speculation over its location, the archaeologists said Tuesday. The fortress is mentioned in the Book of Maccabees I and II, and by the Roman-era Jewish historian Josephus.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/maccabean-era-fortress-unearthed-in-jerusalem-after-century-long-search/

[Little Tich]

1. The archaeological site isn't even in Israel.

By what rights are the Israeli authorities conducting these digs? Isn't this just a way to get rid of Palestinians living on top of the archaeological remains?

[shira]

2. It's in Israel. And if it were up to the PA, they'd have destroyed these remains...

....in their ongoing quest to erase Jewish history, as they did with tons of remains underneath the Temple Mount during Arafat's tyrannical reign.

Do you believe the Wailing Wall is part of the Jewish state & should be open to Jews worldwide?

[Little Tich]

3. The Wailing Wall isn't in Israel either. n/t

[shira]

4. It is now - and it's never going back. n/t

[leftynyc]

6. Damn right

They tried that a couple of weeks ago and got STOMPED on for trying to make the Wall part of the al asqa compound. Such complete bullshit.

[Little Tich]

35. I'm a great believer in the Netanyahu effect- as in "Netanyahu killed the two-state solution",

so in a way you're probably right.

The Wailing Wall will always be a part of Israel, just like all the Palestinians in Gaza, the West Bank, East Jerusalem and in the diaspora. All we have to do is to work out the details...

[shira]

36. You can't fathom land swaps, can you? n/t

[Little Tich]

37. No. n/t

[shira]

38. Why not?

Mahmoud Abbas has agreed to land swaps.

Seems you don't want a solution.

[Little Tich]

40. The problem is that every single settlement is in the wrong place,

and there's no swap that will make them less of an obstacle for the Palestinians than they are now.

Apart from that, it would be really stupid to make a precedent and let a country profit from breaking the Geneva convention by transferring its own population into occupied territory.

Anyway, I think that we're way past the point where a two-state solution is possible, and it will be more evident in time. The Israelis have chosen the one-state solution - they just don't know it yet...

[shira]

41. So you were never for 2 states w/ land swaps - only one state?

You think it's realistic to expect Israel to hand back the Western Wall as part of a 2 state agreement?

[Little Tich]

42. I always thought that if the Palestinians and Israelis wanted two states, then it's up to them

to sort it out.

All I want is that the rights of all the people involved are at least minimally respected. Perhaps swaps were possible half a million settlers ago, but now...

The settlements are not an obstacle to peace - just the two-state solution. That's one of the reasons why I support BDS - If against all hope Israel could be encouraged to remove the settlements, the two-state solution could be theoretically possible.

I can't honestly see any other way out of this than Israel becoming the state of the Jews and the Palestinians.

[shira]

63. There's nothing about BDS, in their plans or in their rhetoric that points to PEACE....

Think about it.

They never mention peace - only "justice".

They're not about peace. They're in solidarity with the extremists stabbing old ladies and little children in Jerusalem, as well as Hamas when they're firing rockets, sending suicide bombers, and using children as militants. From Ali Abunimah and Phil Weiss to Omar Barghouti and the freaks running UNRWA trying to cover up the incitement to terror....

[Little Tich]

66. I completely and cheerfully disagree with you. n/t

[shira]

67. Of course you do - but can you back your beliefs with facts rather than opinion? n/t

[Little Tich]

68. Here's an example of the BDS that I support:

Hotovely to Spanish FM: Labeling settlement goods ‘rewards terror’

Source: Times of Israel, November 5, 2015

Deputy FM says EU decision to brand products made in West Bank will harm Palestinian workers, push peace away

Deputy Foreign Minister Tzipi Hotovely told the Spanish foreign minister on Thursday that a European Union plan to mark Israeli products made in factories over the Green Line is “rewarding terrorism.”

Hotovely told Jose Manuel Garcia-Margallo at a Madrid meeting that the measure would also be ineffective, saying it “will not advance the peace process, and will not affect Israel’s economy.”

“The only ones to suffer from this directive is the thousands of Palestinians employees in factories in Judea and Samaria,” she said. referring to the West Bank by its biblical name.

“While you mark products, our citizens are being stabbed in the streets,” she said. “This is rewarding terrorism.”

An EU decision on labeling for products imported from what are defined as settlements in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights is expected next week.

Read more: http://www.timesofisrael.com/hotovely-to-spanish-fm-labeling-settlement-goods-rewards-terror/

[shira]

69. So you don't support the BDS that Omar Barghouti represents? n/t

[Little Tich]

70. Barghouti is one of the self appointed Ayatollahs of the BDS movement.

He's isolated on the fringe of BDS, and from what I understand he's got no actual impact whatsoever on BDS.

[leftynyc]

5. Bullshit

It will always be in Israel. Thankfully the Israeli's took it back from Jordan so the Palestinians could stop treating our holiest site as a fucking toilet. It will never go back. And it's called the Western Wall. It was only called the Wailing Wall by Jews when we weren't allowed to be there. UNESCO already tried that bullshit a couple of weeks ago. Even the Secretary General of the UN told them to back the fuck off.

[azurnoir]

7. Palestinians treated the Haram al Sharif/Temple Mount like a toilet?

[leftynyc]

8. If you consider the Western Wall

part of the Temple Mount, then yes.

[azurnoir]

9. so you admit that the Wailing Wall is actually the holiest site in Judaism?

[leftynyc]

10. It was only called the Wailing Wall

when it was in Muslim hands and Jews were forbidden to go there and pray. That said, yes, it is the holiest site in Judaism as far as I'm concerned. Everyone else is free to think whatever they please.

[azurnoir]

12. Strange I've seen it called the Wailing Wall many many times by M$M since 1967

[leftynyc]

13. Don't really care what the press calls it

I can only report what I call it. But the reason for the two names is simply history.

[leftynyc]

11. It was my own relatives

that told me what they saw with their own eyes when they were forbidden to go to the Western Wall - through a fence they would see it treated as a garbage dump and a toilet. The history is there for anyone who cares:

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/Western_Wall.html

http://www.ahavat-israel.com/eretz/jerusalem

https://lists.capalon.com/pipermail/imra/2014-January/028247.html

[azurnoir]

14. thanks for hearsay claims and links saying why the Haram al Sharif belongs to Jews, and Moslems?

[leftynyc]

15. While I'm sure you're fooling

people who don't know better, I said nothing about Haram al Sharif - only about the Western Wall Compound which are hardly the same place although I see plenty of you trying to say otherwise. Let's not forget it was just 2 short weeks ago that at least 10 Muslim countries tried to get the Western Wall named by UNESCO as part of the Al Asqa mosque compound - to the disgust of everyone including the Secretary General of the UN (who had to make a special trip to Jerusalem to get them to change the language). So you can spare me the crocodile tears about Israel trying to re-establish the Temple Mount as a solely Jewish site. Just another lie being told.

[azurnoir]

16. UNESCO was asked that East Jerusalem be made a Palestinian historical site despite unproven Rightwin

claims

[leftynyc]

18. So now Haartez is right wing?

After last-minute changes, however, the resolution approved by UNESCO's executive board dropped a potentially more controversial clause laying claim to Jerusalem's Western Wall as a holy site for Muslims only, Israeli diplomats said.
That clause, which was proposed by several Muslim countries and would have stated that the Western Wall was an integral part of the Al-Aqsa mosque compound, vanished after it was condemned by the Israeli government and Jews worldwide, and disowned as dangerous by UNESCO's own director general, Irina Bokova.
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.681663

You like to ignore inconvenient FACTS but the record it there for anyone interested. What those countries tried to do with UNESCO's help was repulsive.

[azurnoir]

21. yes Haaretz is occasionally rightwing but no copy of the resolution stating that exists

says so right in your link

[leftynyc]

22. So the fact that the

UNESCO chief deplored the language isn't even enough for you?

http://www.timesofisrael.com/unesco-chief-deplores-bid-to-name-western-wall-part-of-al-aqsa/


http://observer.com/2015/10/palestinians-look-to-claim-western-wall-through-unesco/

How about the FRee Beacon?

http://freebeacon.com/issues/un-entity-to-vote-on-malicious-resolution-designating-western-wall-part-of-al-aqsa-mosque/

Or are we now to pretend the UNESCO Chief is an Israeli stooge now? Just how hard are you going to shut your eyes and scream no, no, no, no in order not to see what happened? Looking pretty pathetic in my opinion.

[leftynyc]

23. And lets not forget

the last minute trip to Jerusalem the Secretary General of the UN had to make in order to stop this disgusting language from being part of the bill. You can close your eyes all you want about it. Don't forget the LA, LA, LA, LA while you're closing your eyes and covering your ears - it works better that way.

[azurnoir]

26. None of your links refute what I said which was that the original UNESCO resolution

asked that Easy Jerusalem be made a Palestinian historical site

[leftynyc]

27. LOL

Do you approve of the attempted Islamization of the holiest site of the Jews? Because that's all that repulsive language was all about. And all while the lies continue about the Jews trying to do the same with no evidence whatsoever let alone the half dozen links I provided. It's nothing but disgusting projection.

[azurnoir]

28. again none of that refutes what I said the UNESCO resolution initially called for EJ to be made into

a Palestinian historical site, Islamization is how that is interpreted

[leftynyc]

31. OH do feel free to explain to us all

How the Western Wall should be part of the Al Asqa compound as a Palestinian site. What ties do the Muslims have to the Western Wall?
. This should be interesting.

[azurnoir]

34. I simply pointed out what the resolution originally said

there are also Christian that would have been included

[leftynyc]

46. The original language was

nothing more than an attempt to STEAL the history of the site - just like never allowing the examination of the mount (why they gave the Muslims control over the mount is something I'll never understand given the past behavior). It was a repulsive move that rightly got crushed by the UN - hardly Israeli stooges (not to mention the disgust written about the resolution by anyone with a brain while you try and call every single link right wing - even Haartez which showed everyone here where you're coming from so I guess I should thank you for that much).

[azurnoir]

47. you simply cannot engage without resorting to personal insults

I pointed out the truth nothing more, I gave no opinion and will not as I do not have one

[leftynyc]

51. Spare me

You were only trying to deflect, change the subject, lie about the resolution (how come everyone but you - including the UN and UNESCO - hardly supporters of Israel saw it for what it was?), calling everyone who disagreed right wing and now you whine about personal insults. Not to mention trying to discredit me and my family which only proved you have never even visited the area and have no idea what it even looks like in terms of geography and topology. My advice would be to stop digging but whatever.

[azurnoir]

53. I'm not the one making posts about how Muslims dirtied up the place

yada yada the most polite comparison I can make is what the Bush's said as to how the Clinton's left the Whitehouse although I can think of others

here is your post

leftynyc (15,965 posts)
5. Bullshit

It will always be in Israel. Thankfully the Israeli's took it back from Jordan so the Palestinians could stop treating our holiest site as a fucking toilet. It will never go back. And it's called the Western Wall. It was only called the Wailing Wall by Jews when we weren't allowed to be there. UNESCO already tried that bullshit a couple of weeks ago. Even the Secretary General of the UN told them to back the fuck off.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=117499

[leftynyc]

55. You not approving of me pointing

out facts and history is hardly my problem. But feel free to link to anything that says the Muslims took good care of the Western Wall compound and always treated it with the respect it deserves - all while forbidding Jews from visiting and praying there. Nothing stopping you from posting your own links proving me wrong. Trying to deflect some more with nonsense about Bush and Clinton just further proves me point.

[azurnoir]

56. your spoke quite fluently and made your ah preferences apparent

I do not have to anything that one post told folks all they need to know BTW I edited my comment to add it

[leftynyc]

58. As did you

I honestly don't care enough to plow through this thread to find your edit. The history is quite clear.

[azurnoir]

60. yes it is indeed as I said the original wording included the Kotel but also much more

it was all of EJ I repeated that without drawing any conclusions or giving any opinion I simply let you do the rest for me and yes it has been quite revealing at that

[leftynyc]

62. And you still not condemning the original

language about the Kotel is also there for everyone to see. Since I have not said one word about the rest of the resolution - nothing surprising from the countries that introduced it - I'm finding it amusing you're going on and on about it. I guess you think deflection works.

[azurnoir]

17. your family visited the Kotel while it was under Jordanian control?

[leftynyc]

19. I was VERY clear

in saying they could only see it through a fence. They were forbidden from going to the Kotel by the Muslims. But I'm finding your habit of trying to play with words very amusing.

[azurnoir]

20. okay your original post did not say that so they could approach close enough to see the Kotel

through a fence

[leftynyc]

24. My original post said EXACTLY that (n/t)

[azurnoir]

25. my mistake however I do commend your relative visual acuity

[leftynyc]

29. So do I

With binoculars nothing is impossible to see. But continue to deny history. It makes little difference to me and only shows where you're coming from which was really all I was after. So glad to see you're above calling the UNESCO Chief an Israeli stooge....that would have been truly pathetic.

[azurnoir]

30. ya I guess so were they x-ray binoculars too?

[leftynyc]

32. I'm thinking you've

Never been to the Old City part of Jerusalem or you wouldn't even be attempting this line of argument.

[azurnoir]

33. lol look at the map were they in West Bank/Jordan?

[King_David]

39. Clearly the poster your engaging with has never been to the area. nt

[leftynyc]

44. Quite obvious

which given the supposed authority he/she tries to show on the issue is pretty amusing. I know they must be embarrassed at the spanking I gave over the UNESCO vote but trying to discredit me and my family is about what I've come to expect.

[azurnoir]

48. you gave me no spanking but you show quite nicely where you are coming from

[leftynyc]

49. LOL

Whatever you say. It's there for everyone to see how you were flailing around trying to make the UNESCO vote ANYTHING other than what it was. Trying to steal the history of the Western Wall. Even trying to ignore what the UNESCO Chief said and calling Haartez right wing. A pro-P poster trying to defend the indefensible isn't a surprise to anyone and I've never hidden where my sympathies lie on this issue so if you didn't know before, you weren't really paying attention. That OP/ED by Hillary should be a real eye opener to those who think Americans have moved one inch on the issue of Israel.

[azurnoir]

50. No I did not I stated very clearly what the resolution was, that's not flailing or trying to make it

anything else, it is indeed your own proclamations and concern for one and only one group involved that could also be called revealing

[leftynyc]

52. You're still trying to whitewash

what that vote was all about. I guess it's all you have left. And I've NEVER hid where my sympathies lie so that would only be news to you.

[azurnoir]

54. you apparently do like facts you showed concern for only 1 of the 3 religions

that consider the area sacred

[leftynyc]

57. The Western Wall compound

has nothing to do with Christianity (other than Judaism being their older sibling). Trying to make it a Muslim site - with a UNESCO VOTE - was a repulsive display of arrogance that rightly got crushed.

[azurnoir]

59. the UNESCO resolution was inclusive of the entirety of EJ yet you seem concerned about only

1 area, the original resolution included what you've going on about but it was much more than that , as I said you've shown exactly where your concern lies here and it seems not to be very universal

[leftynyc]

61. It's the only part of the resolution

I had a problem with. The UN going after Israel while ignoring the violence of Palestinians is not new and I expected nothing more or less from them. You can deny what the original language was but obviously the UNESCO Chief AND the Secretary General of the UN (and most world leaders) all know better and rightly crushed it in the nuts.

[King_David]

64. The "authority " in those posts is astounding...

[leftynyc]

65. And given what we've learned

from this thread, very amusing.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

43. ...

[leftynyc]

45. Are you another who

has quite obviously not visited the area and have no idea of the topology of the Old City? Such a pity, it's a beautiful city. And juvenile smilies - how special.

[King_David]

71. Kick

[azurnoir]

72. Thanks I think this thread is a stitch

ah ah it all like ummmm hills and stuff

[King_David]

73. That an inside , private joke?

Cos I don't get it...