Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumU OF WINDSOR STUDENTS PROTEST LECTURE BY ISRAEL’S FIRST BEDOUIN DIPLOMAT
http://www.cjnews.com/home-featured/u-of-windsor-students-protest-lecture-by-israels-first-bedouin-diplomatgrossproffit
(5,591 posts)I've never seen so many useful idiots in my life. Well, that's not entirely...true.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)They have no desire to learn - these moronic kids think they know it all. They behaved like imbeciles.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)aranthus
(3,385 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)aranthus
(3,385 posts)Geek raised a totally irrelevant fact, and I called him on it. Or do you think that it's okay to violate someone's free speech rights because you don't agree with their politics? More like Geek's tell is showing. And yours.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)is an example of censorship.
But, of course, we won't see you and your fellow travelers decrying Order 101. Because, typical of rightwing nationalists, you do not view the 'enemy' as having human rights
aranthus
(3,385 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)Could say that to you is astounding...
shira
(30,109 posts)....is someone whose voice needs to be shut down.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Liebermans party, Yisrael Beiteinu, proposes, among other things, a peace plan with the Palestinians by which Arab citizens of Israel living in certain parts of the country would lose their Israeli citizenship and become citizens of a fledgling Palestinian state. Asked his view of this stand and others that the party took during the 2009 elections, Khaldi responded, First of all, nothing about it is illegal, nothing about it is anti-democratic. His reaction was similar when asked about the proposed loyalty oath bill being advanced in the Knesset. The bill, first proposed in slightly modified form by Lieberman, would require new non-Jewish citizens to swear allegiance to a Jewish state.
http://forward.com/news/133327/ishmael-khaldi-a-bedouin-a-muslim-and-an-unlikely/
This is like a Mexican working for Donald Trump. Even less respectable than Condi Rice.
shira
(30,109 posts)Not realizing they're the actual racists themselves.
For example, being unable to ever empathize with Jewish victims of terror - since Jews of all ages can only be oppressors.
aranthus
(3,385 posts)it is definitely true that in academia all or almost all of it comes from the Left. Something to think about.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)It's truly ironic that you don't even realize what it is that you have actually said.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Then they turn around and claim that all true liberals support Israel.
It's pretty funny actually.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)of what they have written.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)supporting Israel is a rightwing cause, ergo the hostility towards the left.
King_David
(14,851 posts)And David Duke as left wing ... Would what you've written there be remotely true.
There's a poster in this group that is extremist anti Israel one issue that definitely is anything but left wing.
Your theory is nonsensical ....
?1433975981
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Hillary Clinton is way to the right of Obama on Israel. She's indistinguishable from Marco Rubio.
King_David
(14,851 posts)David Duke is extremist anti Israel , indistinguishable from the BDS movement... So according to your logic he's "left wing" ?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)that has your number, dave.
You fool nobody.
King_David
(14,851 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)aranthus
(3,385 posts)However, bashing Israel is an extreme Left and extreme Right cause. It's just that there are more extreme Leftists in academia than there are extreme rightists. A further problem is that many of the people on this board who call themselves liberals, really are Leftists. That is extremists on the Left. It's a little sad when people who's views are no where near the Democratic mainstream try to tell the rest of us what it means to be a liberal.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)of being a liberal and speaking for liberals will be taken seriously instead of laughed at
King_David
(14,851 posts)180 degrees...
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)whereas yours align more closely with Republicans, despite your spamming this group with claims to the contrary, as if David Duke and Pat Buchanan represent the Republican mainstream.
http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Research/Files/Reports/2014/12/05-american-opinion-poll-israeli-palestinian-conflict-telhami/israel_palestine_key_findings_telhami_FINAL.pdf?la=en
Democrats:
77%: Lean towards neither side
17%: Lean towards Israel
6%: Lean towards the Palestinians
Democrats
If the Palestinians ask for a U.N. endorsement of a Palestinian state:
46%: Abstain from voting
36% Vote in favor
15% Vote against and veto it
President Obama--let alone Hilllary-- is out of step with the Democratic base by backing Israel over the Palestinians and actively opposing UN recognition of a Palestinian state.
However, the donor class, media, and political elites have for various reasons decided that our role should be to serve as Israel's champion rather than mediating the conflict.
King_David
(14,851 posts)And you probably believe it...
Can you name one elected or standing rep from the Democratic Party that shares those extremist views on Israel?
Link it up
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)that I made a distinction between political elites and rank and file Democrats. And you will also note that I backed up my claims with an opinion survey commissioned by the Brookings Institute.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Is hardly an unbiased "authority "
In fact it's just more of his one track record.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Because the author is an Arab?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibley_Telhami
Before coming to the University of Maryland, he taught at several universities, including Cornell University, the Ohio State University, the University of Southern California, Princeton University, Columbia University, Swarthmore College, and the University of California at Berkeley, where he received his doctorate in political science.
Professor Telhami has also been active in the foreign policy arena. He has served as Advisor to the US Mission to the UN (199091), as advisor to former Congressman Lee H. Hamilton, and as a member of the US delegation to the Trilateral US-Israeli-Palestinian Anti-Incitement Committee, which was mandated by the Wye River Agreements. He also served on the Iraq Study Group[2] as a member of the Strategic Environment Working Group. He has contributed to The Washington Post, The New York Times, and the Los Angeles Times and regularly appears on national and international radio and television. He has served on the US Advisory Group on Public Diplomacy for the Arab and Muslim World, which was appointed by the Department of State at the request of Congress, and he co-drafted the report of their findings, Changing Minds, Winning Peace. He has also co-drafted several Council on Foreign Relations reports on US public diplomacy, on the Arab-Israeli peace process, and on Persian Gulf security.
His best-selling book, The Stakes: America and the Middle East (Westview Press, 2003; updated version, 2004) was selected by Foreign Affairs as one of the top five books on the Middle East in 2003. His other publications include Power and Leadership in International Bargaining: The Path to the Camp David Accords (1990); International Organizations and Ethnic Conflict, ed. with Milton Esman (1995); Identity and Foreign Policy in the Middle East, ed. with Michael Barnett (2002), A Decade of Reflections on Peace, ed. (forthcoming), and numerous articles on international politics and Middle Eastern affairs.
His latest book is titled, "The World Through Arab Eyes" (2013).[4]
He is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations[5] and serves on the board of the Education for Employment Foundation, several academic advisory boards, and has served on the board of Human Rights Watch ( and as Chair of Advisory Committee of Human Rights Watch/Middle East). He has also served on the board of the United States Institute of Peace.[6] Professor Telhami was given the Distinguished International Service Award by the University of Maryland in 2002 and the Excellence in Public Service Award by the University System of Maryland Board of Regents in 2006. He was selected by the Carnegie Corporation of New York with the New York Times as one of the "Great Immigrants" for 2013. He is also a recipient of the University of Maryland's Honors College 2014 Outstanding Faculty Award.
Is there anyone you and yours won't try to smear if what they say doesn't fit the talking points you're supposed to follow?
His breadth of study and interest seems a lot broader--and more even-handed and fair-- than single-issue cheerleaders such as yourself.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-power-and-weakness-of-inciting-violence/2014/12/05/120dedca-74c3-11e4-9d9b-86d397daad27_story.html
Fighting provocation and incitement in conflicts is difficult because they often serve strategic aims. Just as empathy with the enemy is discouraged because it might diminish the will to fight, so a weaker party will often use incitement to muster the will to sustain the fight. By contrast, provocation is often the tool of the stronger party, as it pushes for an earlier fight while it has the upper hand.
My research shows that countering incitement with information that might humanize the other side often gets the opposite result. When Arabs hear stories of the Holocaust, or Israelis confront reports of historical Palestinian suffering, their reactions are similar: They resent the accounts as instruments intended to elicit sympathy or weaken their will.
Both Arab and Israeli leaders have been guilty of incitement and provocation, but the degree to which their words have effect is itself debatable. After almost five decades of occupation, Palestinians are no closer to freedom, and Israelis are no closer to peace; most have given up hope on the very possibility of two states. This reality is far more powerful than the utterances of any individual.
But, Arab, said something inconvenient to Israel, must be evil.
King_David
(14,851 posts)That is just tasteless....
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)with some bullshit about Professor Telhami offering a "just more of his one track record."
Which is funny, in that it's a textbook example of projection.
I note that you have produced absolutely zero links in your attempt to trash Professor Telhami's integrity or prove your unhinged allegation that he's biased.
So we can only conclude that you chose to go ad hominem against him because you wagered that maybe readers would be dumb enough to see his name and race and assume he's biased against Israel or anti-Semitic.
But, you chose to try to smear someone whose credentials are above reproach, a figure with more credibility than you and all of your fellow single-issue propagandists combined and multiplied by 10,000.
King_David
(14,851 posts)But you need to say "I " assume / conclude and not "we" assume/ conclude --- that's a bad habit.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Or is your complete and utter failure to do so an admission that you were trying to peddle bullshit?
If you don't offer any substantiation, that implies an answer of "yes" to the latter question.
So, pretty please, put up or shut up.
Either provide evidence of his bias, or admit you tried to discredit him out of intellectual dishonesty with this nonsense:
Is hardly an unbiased "authority "
In fact it's just more of his one track record.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=117861
Extreme-rightwing Israel types like Debbie Schlussel don't like him. I've never seen anyone other than that criticize him.
Go ahead.
King_David
(14,851 posts)You just need to google the dude and read the titles of his publications...
No need for all that waffle in the rest of your post.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)You see, I did google him just in case you weren't full of shit and promoting a rightwing agenda, and that I had missed something.
Guess what? His works are completely unobjectionable! Completely!
Maybe you and Tom Cotton and Avigdor Lieberman wouldn't like the following, but we actual progressives (instead of those who play act as Bernie Sanders supporters) find nothing wrong with:
The Stakes: America and the Middle East
Power and Leadership in International Bargaining: The Path to the Camp David Accords
International Organizations and Ethnic Conflict
Identity and Foreign Policy in the Middle East
The Sadat Lectures: Words and Images on Peace
Peace Puzzle: Americas Quest for Arab-Israeli Peace, 1989-2011, co-authored with Dan Kurtzer, (former US ambassador to Israel under George W Bush)
The World Through Arab Eyes: Arab Public Opinion and the Reshaping of the Middle East (2013
here's a list of all of his work for Brookings:
http://www.brookings.edu/research/commentary?expert=Shibley%20Telhami
Dude, you totally outed yourself by trying to smear one of the most prominent and highly-respected Arab-American authors alive today.
You actually tried to claim that a guy who co-wrote a book on Israel/Palestine with George W. Bush's ambassador to Israel is hopelessly biased and possessing no credibility.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Peace-Puzzle-Arab-Israeli-Collaboration/dp/0801451477
So, for the love of god, stop pretending to be a Bernie Sanders supporter. it's as ineffective as it is transparently dishonest
King_David
(14,851 posts)We have e poster in this group whose rhetoric on Israel is so unbelievable there's no chance of even being a Democrat - and sports a Bernie Sanders Avatar.
Your funny mister....
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)is a non-credible authority to be an admission that your accusation to that effect was made in bad faith.
As will everyone else reading this.
Have a nice night!
King_David
(14,851 posts)Stop with the generalizations... Kool?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)The kind of bad faith so blatant and obvious it raises lots of inferences, none of them flattering.
This bad faith is confirmed by your refusal to either substantiate or withdraw it.
King_David
(14,851 posts)You realize what weird shit thing to say to a Gay guy?
Not in the least funny.....
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)People act as if they can chant "Bernie Sanders" and will give their rightwing agitprop superpowers to convince liberals of the justness of their cause.
King_David
(14,851 posts)People with Bernie Sanders avatars in this group are not even democrats ( I'm not talking about you)- I don't even respond to any homophobic posters in this group - is that a Bernie Sanders value? I think not ....(again not you )
And in case you missed it - your views on Israel are not held by BS.... My views on the other hand are completely in sync with Bernies .
The "fail" is certainly not mine....
?1433975981
LiberalArkie
(15,703 posts)On Thu Nov 5, 2015, 06:17 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
Why would you say such bigoted things about Arabs?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=117872
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
This poster has nothing to reply to so she is shit stirring.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Nov 5, 2015, 06:31 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
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Explanation: I tend to agree. Trying to stir the pot.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
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Explanation: this alert is nothing but shit-stirring. you'll have to get your alert stalking in on someone else
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
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King_David
(14,851 posts)quelle surprise.....
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Care to share some of the publications by Shibley Telhami that reveal him to be completely non-credible hack?
You said all a person had to do was google and see for themselves. Well, you must be using a different google than everyone else.
Please share.
Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)I would have voted to leave it alone.
King_David
(14,851 posts)That's what it was.
aranthus
(3,385 posts)I didn't think so, but I'm willing to be proven wrong. Can you answer these questions, please?
1. Do you support a two state solution with no right of return?
3. Do you support a two state solution with right of return?
3. Do you support a one state solution with no right of return?
4. Do you support a one state solution with right of return?
5. Is Israel an apartheid state?
6. Do you support the goals of BDS as stated on the Palestinian BDS website?
7. Do you support right of return?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)the two-state solution is the ideal, but it's no longer possible. There are too many settlers, armed to the teeth, deeply embedded within Palestine. Separation is no longer possible.
3/4: if a two-state solution is dead, then a one-state solution is by definition the only plausible option. Immigration/right of return under a one-state solution would have to be non-discriminatory--either both Jews and Palestinians get the right of return, or neither do.
5. Israel within its own borders is not currently an apartheid state. Israel is administering an apartheid state inside occupied Palestine. If one considers Israel proper alongside the West Bank to be a single administrative unit, Israel is an apartheid state.
6. I do not support BDS. I support US (I am an American, not an Israeli or a Palestinian) disengagement from the region in general, especially with regard to Israel/Palestine. I think Israel is committing slow-motion suicide, but disagree with Obama's paternalistic efforts to get Israel to change its behavior. If Israel self-destructs, that's their problem, not ours. Same goes for the Palestinians.
7. See answers above.
aranthus
(3,385 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)For example, it makes a helluva lot more sense for the W.Bank and Jordan to become 1-state than for Israel joining the W.Bank.
aranthus
(3,385 posts)That you can't handle the truth isn't my problem.