REPORT How the Israel Lobby Captured Hillel

[azurnoir]

Hillel International used to be a welcoming campus organization for Jews of all persuasions. Not anymore.

“My sense going into college was that Hillel was a center for Jewish campus life,” Wolfsun told me of the organization that oversees a network of Jewish campus centers across the United States and abroad. Wolfsun joined the Swarthmore branch of Hillel during his freshman year and served on its board for three years. (He resigned recently to focus on “job applications and senior-year wrap-up things” but remains involved in the organization.) “I expected it to be a pluralistic, open, inclusive space to explore Jewish identities and learn and grow.”

He doesn’t think so anymore. In 2010, Hillel International, the parent organization of campus Hillels, developed an explicit policy, officially named the “Standards of Partnership,” that prohibits hosting or co-partnering with individuals or organizations deemed anti-Israel or in support of boycott, divestment, and sanctions (BDS). Wolfsun and his colleagues at Swarthmore wanted to host a wider range of events and speakers than Hillel’s guidelines allow, and in December 2013, they declared their Hillel “open,” in rejection of Hillel International’s restrictions. In January 2015, the Swarthmore students began organizing an event featuring civil rights activists now involved in Palestinian solidarity activism who support BDS.

When Hillel International got wind of the program, the organization insisted that the program not proceed under its name. Liliana Rodriguez, then an associate dean at Swarthmore College, received a letter from Hillel’s lawyer that threatened legal action against the college if the program went ahead as planned. If the students or speakers “intend for this program to be a discussion in which the speakers present or proselytize their known anti-Israel and Pro BDS agenda, this would cross the clear line for programs that violate Hillel International’s Standards of Partnership and could be reason for Hillel International to seek to protect its guidelines, name and reputation,” Hillel’s lawyer wrote.

Swarthmore’s Jewish students were not the only ones to face intervention from Hillel in recent years, either directly or by local Hillel directors. Harvard University students had to relocate an event scheduled to take place at their Hillel when their rabbi nixed it on the grounds that the event was co-sponsored by a pro-BDS Palestinian solidarity group. The same civil rights speakers who caused the Swarthmore maelstrom were blocked from speaking at Oberlin College in Ohio by the local Hillel director. Then they were blocked from speaking at Muhlenberg College’s Hillel by the Hillel rabbi because the event violated the Standards of Partnership. Caroline Dorn, the student president of Muhlenberg’s Hillel at the time, resigned in protest. “I can’t be a representative of Hillel International, an organization that I feel is limiting free speech on our campus and prohibiting academic integrity,” Dorn wrote in an op-ed in the college’s newspaper.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/11/23/how-the-israel-lobby-captured-hillel-international-college-campus/

[King_David]

1. So start your own organization and get your own funding...

And that's the problem:

1. Membership will be pretty bleak unless like Jewish voices for Peace - most members are not Jewish.

2. Don't expect funding from the Jewish community- not gonna happen . I won't give a cent . And also if they ever made it to Hillell's executive- I would withdraw all my donations as I expect the vast majority of Hillell's current donars would as well.

[Ken Burch]

8. Why must Hillel enforce a rigid and totally right-wing line on this?

Why must it insist that nothing that isn't unquestioningly Likudnik ever happen at any Hillel chapter?

Why must Hillel's sense of group identity be tied exclusively to Israel?

It's not as if Zionism is the only thing Judaism as a religion or Jewishness as an ethnic/cultural identity is about.

What's the harm of allowing respectful voices of dissent to be heard?

It's weird that, as a victim of two different forms of oppression, you would ever defend oppressive methods.

[King_David]

12. Hillell gets to decide,

and so does Hillell's sponsors and donars get to decide who they donate to.

If this guy ever made it to Hillell's exec I wouldn't donate one more cent to them.

[Ken Burch]

13. Obviously they get to decide.

I'm asking why they would insist on such pointless rigidity.

It's not like that chapter was inviting David Irving to speak.

[aranthus]

73. It's not a "right wing" line.

Opposition to BDS, and the belief that BDS is an antisemitic movement is mainstream in Israel and in the Jewish community here in the United States.

[Ken Burch]

86. It's right-wing in the sense that it isn't just about BDS

(which, as I understand it, a fair amount of people in the Jewish community don't necessarily see as antisemitic).

It's about Hillel trying to silence ANY criticism of Israeli security policies within its organization and about trying to reduce Jewish identity and concerns to nothing else at all but the question of Israel. I get it that Israel's survival is important, but can't be the only thing that matters and nobody's Jewish identity should be questioned just because they aren't an unquestioning supporter of that state.

[King_David]

87. You really do consider yourself a spokesman for the Jewish community huh ?

[Ken Burch]

90. No I don't. I just reject the notion that you and the rest of the hawks

can claim to speak for all of it.

[King_David]

94. LOL

That is really funny...that you think you can speak for any of us....

[Ken Burch]

99. I'm not claiming any such thing

Just challenging your attempts to pretend that there is no significant dissent on these issues within your community. You yourself speak only for yourself as an individual, as far as that goes.

[branford]

100. Define "significant?"

You seem to claim to know a great deal about sentiments and perspectives of the Jewish community even though you apparently are not a member and have not offered any reliable or remotely objective data to support your claims. You really just don't appreciate how to even the vast majority of very liberal, secular Jews, to say nothing of all others, BDS, anti-Zionism, and anti-Israel / one state ideas are akin to supporting white racial supremacy at a NAACP meeting.

Think about this: the fact that a few Jews on college campuses and elsewhere support BDS or similar anti-Zionist causes is newsworthy only because it's such an extreme anomaly in the wider Jewish community. If the dissent was nearly as significant as you suggest or hope, there would be no need to constantly highlight how a few particular Jews are advocating a position so outside the norms of the community. Heck, many groups like Jewish Voice for Peace who advocate these positions make particular note about how their membership consists of all faiths and ethnicities, and are downright evasive when questioned about the number of actual Jews they represent.

Simply, what amounts to a few token Jews espousing positions considered quite radical in the Jewish community, no matter how large their support outside the community, how much you agree with their position, believe it just and right, or desperately want Jews to accept them, does not transform a statistical anomaly into "significant dissent."

Of course, you are free to believe as you wish, as is anyone else, Jew or gentile, but asserting that a "significant" number of Jews agree with the positions of the "Open Hillel" students or anything similar is just laughably absurd. Jews are notorious for disagreements among ourselves over innumerable issues and polices, but if the debate concerns the legitimacy of the State of Israel and efforts to harm it, it becomes readily apparent that this is one of the few areas where Jews achieve near universal consensus.

[Ken Burch]

103. Nothing we are discussing is about my "hopes".

My only hopes in this are for a peaceful and democratic resolution of this conflict, one in which neither community ends up powerless and oppressed.

I don't even back BDS...I just don't accept the idea that they are antisemitic or that they need to be anathemized.

[branford]

105. You are of course free to believe anything you wish.

My issue is your repeated assertion that a "significant" number of actual Jews support BDS, are anti-Zionist, or hold views even remotely similar to the "Open Hillel" students discussed in the OP. That is simply and laughably absurd, regardless of whether you like or "accept" this fact.

Moreover, at no point have I accused every supporter of BDS of Antisemitism, although the crossover is often sadly quite large and prominent.

Lastly, I don't know how you can honestly be surprised that individuals, Jewish or otherwise, who support anything close to delegitimization or injury to the one tiny Jewish-majority state or would explicitly or implicitly (e.g., "right of return) deny Jewish self-determination, would be considered anathema in the Jewish community, particularly given the historic worldwide treatment of Jews, with Holocaust survivors still alive and millions of people still openly espousing Antisemitic genocidal rhetoric, from Iran to ISIL and even many fascists on the right, and where support for Israel, regardless of its elected leadership, is a central tenet of modern religious Judaism and secular Jewish identity.

[King_David]

101. I know I do ...and you speak for the "significant "Jewish dissenters

[branford]

97. Define "hawks?"

No one is claiming to speak for the entire Jewish community, but as with most ethnic and religious groups, that hardly means that the community doesn't share a great many near universal ideas and perspectives, including a strong commitment to Israel and Zionism, and opposition to those who oppose such ideals.

Your posts seem to indicate either a profound lack of understanding of some of the most basic religious, ethnic and cultural tenets of modern Judaism and Jews and the ideas that actually bind us as a community, or just evince an obvious regret or repulsion to those ideas and wish we believed differently. For instance, if you honestly think that Hillel's position is even remotely controversial among the vast majority of Jews or membership in Hillel, I would respectfully suggest you need to associate yourself with a far greater number and variety of Jews. It doesn't take a "Likudnik," "hawk," or someone who's right-wing by any accepted definition of the term, to support Zionism, and oppose BDS and other efforts to delegitimize Israel or Jewish self-determination.

It's obvious you would like Jews as a group to have far different traits and ideas to define our identity. You will need to learn to live with your disappointment.

[branford]

88. How do you define "a fair amount of people in the Jewish community?"

BDS is widely reviled across the political spectrum in the Jewish community (and, incidentally, most of the Democratic Party).

The number of actual Jews who don't object to BDS is a very tiny, albeit often loud and disgruntled, minority. If you have any reliable and objective data suggesting otherwise, I would be happy to discuss it.

The survival and prosperity of Israel is a central tenet of modern Judaism and an important aspect of the identity of an unquestionable majority of Jews everywhere, irrespective of the current elected government or prime minister of Israel. Considering both the historical and modern violent and discriminatory treatment of Jews across the world, to say nothing of the Holocaust still within living memory and the continuous Antisemitic genocidal rhetoric of violent religious radicals in the Middle East, from the mullahs in Iran to ISIL, this should come as absolutely no surprise to anyone. Moreover, complaints about Israel or Zionism are quite often little more than not so thinly veiled masks for blatant Antisemitism and the denial of self-determination to Jews.

Israel is certainly not the "only thing that matters" to most Jews, but it's extremely important, and the wider Jewish community is more than capable of disagreeing with certain policy choices of various Israeli governments, both on the left and right, without impacting their belief in the importance of the State of Israel in their ethnic, religious, and cultural identity.

[King_David]

89. +1000

Truth

[leftynyc]

102. Well put

You can't find a bigger cross section of US Jews than in NY - secular reform right to ultra Orthdox - I don't know one who supports that odious Bds movement. "Fair amount" is deluded wishful thinking that has zero basis in reality. Not one federally elected US official supports it. Not one.

[shira]

104. Same here in Boston. I have yet to meet Jews supporting BDS here.

Not to say they don't exist. But how many are we talking about? I doubt it's even 1%.

[still_one]

76. This is a ridiculous OP. Why would a Jewish organization, which Hillel is cater to a non-Jewish

agenda. I would not expect any Muslim or Christian organization to cater to a non-Muslim or non-Christian agenda respectively

[King_David]

78. Exactly

[leftynyc]

2. Scream from the rooftops

That's their right. But Hillel doesn't need to pretend they support that bds crap. They're just trying to leech off Hillel's good name and, of course, use their funds for spreading more anti-Zionist hate.

[Fozzledick]

3. So a Jewish organization refuses to support anti-Semitism? What a shock!!1!

Why in hell would anyone think they should?

[still_one]

77. It is beyond ridiculous. No Muslim group would be expected to follow an anti=Muslim agenda, or a

Christian group expected to follow a non-Christian agenda.

[6chars]

4. Hillel is doing the right thing.

Hillel's stated mission is "to enrich the lives of Jewish undergraduate and graduate students so that they may enrich the Jewish people and the world" (wikipedia)

Boycotting Israel simply does not square with this mission. Replace "enrich" with "impoverish" and it might work. But that is a different type of organization, and there are already several filling that niche.

[Ken Burch]

9. Israel isn't the only thing Jewishness can possibly be about.

And it doesn't actually strengthen Israel to suppress open discussion and debate. All that does is entrench Netanyahu's hatred-and-death-based politics...a politics that has done nothing but endanger Israel and weaken its supposedly democratic character

[King_David]

11. Maybe you should explain that to the Jewish people?

They probably could learn a lot about Jewish culture and values from you.

[Ken Burch]

14. I wasn't implying anything remotely like that.

And you know it.

But you raise a good point:

Why should "Jewish culture and values" now be reduced solely to supporting Zionism(which, these days, means nothing at all but being an unquestioning supporter of Revisionist Zionism)?

It's not as if anything Netanyahu or the IDF or the settlers do is making your life and better or safer. If anything, the occupation and the settlement expansion program are just giving aid and comfort to the antisemites you and I are both committed to denouncing and battling.

And it's not as if every Jewish person on the planet thinks that "defending Israel" is the only thing that matters in life. Larger abd larger groups of young Jewish Americans don't feel any real connection with Zionism at all, and reject the idea that they are obligated to unquestioningly defend everything the Israeli government does to Palestinians.

[King_David]

18. Larger and Larger Jewish Groups ? Really?

Like Jewish voices for peace who won't release membership statistics but are Jewish lead but no where near Jewish majority members ?

Please name these groups for us ...


Mondoweiss of Alex Kane fame ?

LOL

[Ken Burch]

23. On what basis do you conclude that Jewish Voice for Peace is not a majority-Jewish organization?

The group doesn't advocate anything that is intrinsically anti-Jewish. It isn't even anti-Zionist in the larger sense.

I ask you, with full respect, with full acknowledgment of the past suffering that drove the creation of Israel in the 1940's(and as a supporter, myself, of Israel's right to exist in peace and security within the pre-1967 lines, which is as much as the Israeli government has the right to expect anyone to do), why DO you equate Jewish identity(if I read you right)solely with defense of the security policies of the Israeli government?

Those policies don't make your life any more secure.

They don't even make the lives of Israeli Jews any more secure.

Why defend what doesn't work?

And why reduce everything associated with the varied and vibrant Jewish spiritual, philosophical, and ethnic/cultural traditions tp defense of a nationalist project in the desert?

Why, as you apparently see it, is that ALL that matters?

And, if you really want to fight antisemitism (as all decent people try to do) why reduce THAT fight solely to defending the worst policies of one state, policies that oppress a people who never had anything to do with the millennia of misery Jewish people in Europe and Russia were subjected to? Why not, instead, work globally to fight ALL forms of oppression? Why not universalism in pursuit of justice?

The fact is, that while Israel does have a right to exist, what it does in the West Bank and the brutality it has inflicted on Gaza do nothing at all to defeat antisemitism in the world. And Netanyahu doesn't even WANT antisemitism to be defeated, since he needs perpetual antisemitism and perpetual fear of outside attack simply to keep his otherwise totally discredited party in power.

[King_David]

30. From their website :

DO I HAVE TO BE JEWISH TO JOIN JVP?
No you don’t. JVP is an organization that is inspired by Jewish values and traditions to work towards peace and justice. We are committed to building an inclusive Jewish community, that, like many of our families, welcomes Jews and allies who share our values and appreciate our traditions, who advocate for an end to Israeli human rights abuses, and who oppose anti-Jewish hatred, anti-Arab racism, and Islamophobia.
DO I HAVE TO BE IN THE U.S. TO JOIN JVP?
Nope. Wherever you are, you are welcome to join us in our work. We focus on the United States, however, because of the crucial role that the US plays in the Middle East–including large sums of military aid that fund the Israeli occupation.

[Ken Burch]

38. The fact that non-Jewish people are allowed to join...

...doesn't equate to proof that the majority of its members are non-Jewish, especially since there is nothing in JVP's program that is inherently anti-Jewish(or even inherently incompatible with support for Israel's right to exist in peace and security).

[shira]

48. JVP doesn't believe in Israel's right to exist in peace & security. Who are you fooling?

They're a big part of BDS, as they display an utter hostility to the notion of Jewish peoplehood & Jewish self-determination.

You'd rightly condemn any group of people hostile to the notion of a Palestinian people, against Palestinian self-determination, and in favor of expelling hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from their lands. So why is it okay when such hatred is directed against Jews, whether by BDS degenerates or JVP frauds?

[Shaktimaan]

81. sadly...

And, if you really want to fight antisemitism (as all decent people try to do) why reduce THAT fight solely to defending the worst policies of one state, policies that oppress a people who never had anything to do with the millennia of misery Jewish people in Europe and Russia were subjected to? Why not, instead, work globally to fight ALL forms of oppression? Why not universalism in pursuit of justice?

This argument sounds very similar to the one espoused by people who respond to "Black Lives Matter" with the myopic "ALL Lives Matter."

The treatment of Palestinians in the territories doesn't really have any connection to previous centuries' anti-semitism in Russia. You seem to be implying that the occupation is part of some Israeli plan to extract revenge for the Russian pogroms or something.

The fact is, that while Israel does have a right to exist, what it does in the West Bank and the brutality it has inflicted on Gaza do nothing at all to defeat antisemitism in the world. And Netanyahu doesn't even WANT antisemitism to be defeated, since he needs perpetual antisemitism and perpetual fear of outside attack simply to keep his otherwise totally discredited party in power.

So you're implying that Bibi is purposefully refraining from ending global anti-semitism in order to keep Likud in power?

[Ken Burch]

85. My argument is nothing at all like the "All Lives Matter" argument.

People who make that argument are denying that black people are under particular attack in this country, and don't care about black people being killed. I don't deny that Jewish people are under attack, as they have always been, and like you, I want that stopped yesterday. I want ALL forms of oppression and slaughter stopped yesterday. What I reject the idea that "standing with Israel&quot which never means anything but being an unquestioning cheerleader for everything Netanyahu has ever done) does anything at all to protect anybody who is Jewish from attack. Giving absolute support for everything the Israeli government does in the name of "security" actually endangers Jewish people, especially given Netanyahu's demagogic habit of referring to the Israeli government as "the Jews"...a rhetorical trope that is clearly designed to imply that every Jewish person and community around the world supports what Netanyahu does and can be held responsible for it. In this day and age "Standing with Israel" in the sense that that phrase is now used(never accepting any dissent or criticism as legitimate, never acknowledging the humanity and legitimacy of grievance the Palestinians have, whatever you say about some of the tactical choices made by their leaders), gives aid and comfort to the worst of the world's antisemites. Instead, I stand with the world's Jewish communities, in Israel and in the Diaspora.

You asked me if Netanyahu is "purposefully refraining from ending global anti-semitism". That is an offensive inflammatory question. Netanyahu doesn't have the power to end global antisemitism, nor any other nefarious global powers. But clearly, given his rhetoric, given his bellicosity, give his use of the world's Jewish communities as rhetorical human shields for his regime, you'd have to concede that the man doesn't want antisemitism to die out, and doesn't want Israel to be at peace. Were either of those things to happen, support for the Likud Party would die out almost instantly. Netanyahu and the fascist settlers NEED things to stay as they are, and if you care(as I do)about ending antisemitism and allowing the conditions to exist for Israel to live in peace and security, you need to see the man and his allies for what they are.

[Shaktimaan]

95. You're making very absolutist statements

People who make that argument are denying that black people are under particular attack in this country, and don't care about black people being killed.

I don't know if that's necessarily true at all. I would say that "all lives matter" people often feel that by singling out Black people as the focus of the movement they are being divisive, if not racist. They might deny or not understand the specific structural racism that applies to black people or they might be uncomfortable confronting their own inherent white privilege. It seems more inclusive to say "all lives matter" because that implies they are all important and equal, despite the fact that white and black people live inherently different experiences. This is the same for Jewish people.

I want ALL forms of oppression and slaughter stopped yesterday.

So... "All Lives Matter?"

What I reject the idea that "standing with Israel&quot which never means anything but being an unquestioning cheerleader for everything Netanyahu has ever done) does anything at all to protect anybody who is Jewish from attack.

So, YOU'RE the person who coined that phrase! Or are you just the person who's officially defining it?

Instead, I stand with the world's Jewish communities, in Israel and in the Diaspora.

Except for the ones you disagree with you mean?

But clearly, given his rhetoric, given his bellicosity, give his use of the world's Jewish communities as rhetorical human shields for his regime, you'd have to concede that the man doesn't want antisemitism to die out, and doesn't want Israel to be at peace. Were either of those things to happen, support for the Likud Party would die out almost instantly.

No, I really don't have to concede that at all. Frankly it's absurd. Of course Bibi wants peace, just as I'm sure Hamas wants peace. He just wants it on his own terms and conditions. But you're right about Likud dying out were long term peace to occur. Let's not forget that it was the Palestinian reaction to Israel's withdrawal from Gaza in 2005 that paved the way for the right wing to seize power in Israel. Had Israeli concessions not been met with the election of Hamas and the immediate surge of rocket attacks then Likud would have never been elected.

[Ken Burch]

98. No, my argument is not comparable at all to "All Lives Matter"

They aren't recognizing the particular structural oppression involved. I do recognize the particular oppression over the centuries. I simply reject the idea that that oppression justifies suppressing principled protest against the oppression of a national community who weren't part of that particular oppression. The "All Lives Matter" crowd make an argument that is obtuse about the situation...I don't make that mistake. I recognize that antisemitism is real-but that recognition doesn't obligate me to give Netanyahu a public pass on all the misery he inflicts.

[leftynyc]

33. You are conflating

Two very different things. Defense of bibi and the settlers and defending Zionism. BDS has proven to be nothing more than anti Semites so calling them respectful dissent is laughable.

Why do so many of you get upset when we have the temerity to point out that Israel is not solely to blame for the plight of the Palestinians? That they have every right to defend themselves? That Gaza has an elected government of terrorists and Abbas is a massively corrupt piece of shit who just this week said killing Jews was fine with him. These are the leaders you're asking Israel to deal with. You hold them to a standard you ask of nobody else. And some of us are going to keep pointing that out because we refuse to let so many pretend they represent anything near a majority of Democrats.

Hillel and no other organization like it is under any obligation to invite those who call for the destruction of Israel. And like it or not, there is plenty of evidence of bds leaders and supports who want just that.

[shira]

49. THIS !!! +100 n/t

[shira]

29. There are 6 million Jews there to care & worry about. Just because other groups.....

...of people couldn't give a shit about other folks doesn't mean Jews need to abandon fellow Jews in Israel who are being attacked daily & just want to get on with their lives. Jews being free in our very own ancestral indigenous homeland also means a helluva lot to us as well, as it should. Especially in times like these where antisemitism is once again spiking worldwide.

Israel isn't supposedly democratic - it IS democratic - and enjoys more freedom of expression (dissent) than probably any other nation on the planet. There probably isn't another nation as self-critical as Israel. THAT is its #1 strength and is what makes it a genuine democracy - moreso than other democracies that don't come close to that level of openness.

[Ken Burch]

39. Calling for an end to the West Bank Occupation and the settlements

and an end to collective punishment of all Palestinians for the crimes of the violent few(and in the supposed belief that such collective immiseration is going to force a change in the Palestinian leadership, despite the fact that everyone knows it can never lead to that) does not equate to "abandon(ing) fellow Jews in Israel".

A true support for Israeli Jews would be to call for Netanyahu and his war-party coalition to resign from government, or, at least, public declarations of opposition to what that coalition does to Palestinians, since the actions of that government do not protect Israeli Jews, but endangers them. This is by design-without perpetual war or the perpetual threat of war, the Likud Party would collapse at the polls.

You need to face facts shira...Binyamin Netanyahu is the greatest threat to Israel's safety and survival on the planet. Were it not for his coalition and the ideology of fear and death(Revisionist Zionism)that coalition of death represents, Hamas would never have had any important role to play in the Palestinian political structure.

If you care about Israel, for the love of everything please start denouncing the Occupation and the settlements and the whole Likudnik mindset.

[shira]

47. Security is #1 issue. When Abbas stops his bloodlust & Hamas stops rockets, etc....

And the Palestinians demonstrate they're all about peace and 2 states (like Egypt and Jordan demonstrated) then there will be peace and 2 states. Just as there is peace now with Egypt and Jordan.

Not a moment sooner.

You can't expect Israelis to choose suicide over the status quo.

Now go on and try persuading Palestinian leaders to call off their war against the Jews if you're interested in peace. If you're not interested in peace, keep blaming Israel.

Your way has already been tried - Gaza pullout, no more settlements, no more occupation, no more Jews there. Thousands of rockets as a result. No Jews live under Abbas rule in the W.Bank, yet Abbas' bloodlust continues.

And you want Hillel to allow assholes who want Israel gone to take over?

[azurnoir]

5. This thread exemplifies the article IMO

[King_David]

6. The thread is real life , Jewish life.....

You ever been in a Hillell or Belonged to one?

The article is crap....

[azurnoir]

7. so the guy who wrote the article isn;t a 'real' Jew?

where oh where have I heard that before?

[King_David]

10. I never said that.....

I said the article he wrote was crap...

Not only do you make stuff up but then you roll on the floor laughing at your own fabrication.... Weird .

[azurnoir]

17. your title line

The thread is real life , Jewish life.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=120057

real life Jewish life seems to mean real Jewish life

[King_David]

20. What a bunch of rubbish...

[azurnoir]

21. you wrote it

[King_David]

25. You're just trying to rationalize your slanderous accusation

You made in your post .

You lied outright about me saying something I clearly did not and then you tried to explain your lie.

Your post is a lie and a disgraceful one at that .... In order to impugn my character..... Any self respecting DUr would apologize and self delete it.

[leftynyc]

35. So sorry you had

That kind of repulsive charge thrown at you. You were quite clear in what you meant and some posters have a nasty habit of lashing out when they don't have the upper hand.

[King_David]

36. Amazing, is it not ?

[leftynyc]

37. I wish I were surprised

Have a wonderful Thanksgiving. I'll likely be cooking all day tomorrow.

[King_David]

44. Yes you too

Yum yum

[azurnoir]

41. Really like this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=105765

or this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=117669

or this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=109118

all written by you directed at me

[azurnoir]

40. Nope you wrote what you wrote

[leftynyc]

46. He said MOTHING

Like what you charged. It's a digesting charge and you should be ashamed of yourself. If you think those links to posts of mine prove your point, you're delusional. Just more deflection - the argument for those who have no point. Very disappointing to see you do that...I really always expected better from you.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

53. You intimated as much.

Own it and stop pretending otherwise.
















oh, and have a wonderful Thanksgiving!

[branford]

16. Do you believe Hillel's position doesn't represent that of the VAST majority of American Jews?

As with people of all other faiths and eccentricities, Jews have a small minority of members espousing views wildly inconsistent with the wider community. That's perfectly fine. Nevertheless, to the overwhelming majority of Jews, particularly the leadership and financial sponsors of a long-standing, mainstream Jewish group like Hillel, any support for anti-Zionist or BDS individuals or groups is the equivalent of welcoming the KKK at the NAACP or the Family Research Council at GLAAD. You may personally disagree and want opinions to change, but it's the reality, and unlikely to change any time soon.

These Jews (and non-Jews) can espouse any position they want. No one is silencing them, Hillel or otherwise. However, Hillel is entitled to set its own rules and positions, and need not fund, support or provide any assistance whatsoever to those who don't reflect their viewpoints. There is also no real movement to change Hillel's positions, a few disgruntled activists and DU members notwithstanding.

These activist want to use Hillel's good name, influence, and resources for their own agenda. Unsurprisingly, Hillel objected. These student are free to create their own organizations to express Palestinian solidarity, although I very highly doubt such groups will contain many actual Jews, receive much funding and support from the wider Jewish community, or remotely have the credibility among Jews as Hillel.

[azurnoir]

19. it seems Open Hillel isn't so open

the activists are/were Hillel and they were silenced

[branford]

22. The activists wanted to take positions contrary to those espoused by Hillel.

To the surprise of absolutely no one, particularly among the vast majority of mainstream Jews and student members of Hillel across the country and world, the organization was unwilling to fund and support people and groups contrary to its mission.

The activists can call themselves "Open Hillel" or anything else, but it doesn't change the fact that they were acting contrary to the Hillel rules, and there's no evidence of any real impetus among Jews or Hillel to change these rules or positions.

Claims that these students were silenced is laughable. They did and continue to loudly and zealously advocate their positions. However, they certainly weren't entitled to the credibility, backing and resources of Hillel. They should (and did - see link below) create their own campus organizations, although as I observed earlier, without many actual Jews as members, Jewish funding and support, or established credibility of Hillel, they're basically lost among the other various and sundry anti-Israel campus groups, largely ignored or reviled by the clear majority of Jews and most other Americans.

Of course, these students are free to try to convince the wider Jewish community and Hillel membership that anti-Israel, anti-Zionist, pro-BDS, and Palestinian solidarity positions should be welcomed at Hillel. Good luck with that...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillel:_The_Foundation_for_Jewish_Campus_Life

[azurnoir]

42. so you admit the author is correct whether or not you will acknowledge that fact

in fact almost every poster on this thread does that thank you

[branford]

45. Huh?

No one here appears to contest that Hillel, quintessential mainstream Jewish organization, very strongly supports Israel and equally opposes efforts to delegitimize it, such as BDS. Interestingly, Hillel's position on Israel differs little from President Obama and virtually all other elected Democrats, unlike the views espoused by many here on DU.

The author appears basically correct in her assertions that Hillel has specific policies concerning speakers or events that are ant-Israel, anti-Zionist or support BDS, that activists breached or tried to breach such policies, and Hillel objected.

The "Israel Lobby" only "captured Hillel" to the extent that Hillel's policies actually and accurately represent the VAST majority of Jews and Hillel members, are entirely uncontroversial and widely supported within the Jewish community, and that some very tiny minority of Jews and other activists are quite upset that they cannot use Hillel's significant influence, support and resources to spread their message.

As my earlier link indicated, anyone who disagreed with Hillel was free to speak and form their own organization that promote their views. They could even advocate that Hillel change their policies. However, they were not entitled to any institutional support from Hillel, without which their message had very limited visibility and and no credibility among virtually all Jews or most other Americans.

[shira]

28. No Muslim college group would be open to Islamophobic incitement within its ranks.

You wouldn't accuse a Muslim college group of not being open & therefore silencing dissent, so why Hillel?

[azurnoir]

43. Name a US Muslim collage or university that has done that please :)

[Ken Burch]

15. How is it crap?

Oh, and it's "Hillel", not "Hillell". If you're going to defend a reactionary organization, a group that doesn't do a damn thing to defend LGBTQ people, at least spell its name correctly.

[branford]

24. Why would Hillel want or need to engage in LGBT advocacy?

Besides the fact that LGBT status is largely immaterial to Hillel and most Jews, it has nothing to do with Hillel's mission, and there are more than ample campus organizations devoted to such purposes.

[Ken Burch]

26. It is directly material to the poster I was responding to. n/t.

[branford]

27. The topic of LGBT rights was not raised in this thread by anyone but you.

Last edited Tue Nov 24, 2015, 09:07 PM - Edit history (1)

I was surprised you mentioned it at all considering that most Jews, American, Israeli, and otherwise, are very socially liberal and most couldn't care less if someone's LGBTQ, including most Hillel chapters and their members. Ironically, this same liberalism and acceptance cannot be said of similar numbers of actual Palestinians, no less their governments of the PA and theocratic Hamas.

[King_David]

50. And how you get away with it on an LGBT friendly forum like DU

Constantly amazes me.

There's another poster in this group that has an openly hostile attitude toward the LGBT people.

[Ken Burch]

51. What do you mean, another?

I support the LGBTQ community.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

52. king dave, IMHO, uses every chance he gets to whine about an

phantom homophobe within IP that does not exist.

Guess who gets that farcical title?

[King_David]

34. Well the truth of the matter is that Hillel actually does engage in Jewish LGBT advocacy....

A simple google search.

[King_David]

32. You fancy yourself as an authority on Jews and Jewish institutions?

Being Jewish and LGBT on Campus
by Hillel News |May 18, 2007|

http://www.hillel.org/about/news-views/news-views---blog/news-and-views/2007/05/18/being-jewish-and-lgbt-on-campus

LGBT Jews and Allies

http://umass.hillel.org/home/studentlife/studentgroups/lgbtjewsandallies.aspx

HAMSA: Hillel’s Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans, Questioning, and Allies student group at UMD

http://www.marylandhillel.org/studentlife/student-groups/jewish-lgbt/

LGBT-Jew-IA: Queer Jews of Hillel- Facebook Groups

http://www.jewishlgbtnetwork.com/place/lgbt-jew-ia-queer-jews-of-hillel/


etc etc etc etc etc


Do you just make the stuff you post up ? You just fabricate that nonsense ?

Oh, and it's "Hillel", not "Hillell". If you're going to defend a reactionary organization, a group that doesn't do a damn thing to defend LGBTQ people, at least spell its name correctly.

The real homophobic bigots who kill gays are in the Gaza Statelet of Palestine,Hamas,.Iran IS,ISIS etc etc etc

[Little Tich]

54. Interesting thread.

It seems as if you're Jewish and critical of the settlements, then Hillel isn't for you. Hillel has been hijacked by the World Likud...

[King_David]

55. You meant Zionists ...

Not Likud ,but Zionists... As the vast vast overwhelming majority of Jews worldwide are....

[grossproffit]

56. Many non Jews as well. My husband and our entire families are Zionists.

We wouldn't have it any other way.

[King_David]

61. Yes

Especially Americans ...

Happy Thanksgiving GP - your posts are great ....

[Little Tich]

60. No, I meant Likud, not Zionism.

Zionism doesn't necessarily mean that you have to support the settlements. The kind of Zionism that includes support for the settlements is a racist version of Zionism - or perhaps Likudism if you want.

I don't believe that all Zionists are racists, even though I have a serious problem with all nationalist ideologies.

[leftynyc]

57. I've been plenty

Critical of settlements. That's a far cry from supporting anti-Semitic and antiZionist pice of shit groups like bds. That you can't make that very simple distinction is entirely your problem.

[King_David]

62. +1

[Shaktimaan]

80. The world Likud?

It seems as if you're Jewish and critical of the settlements, then Hillel isn't for you.

I didn't see any reference to what you're saying here. The expectation that Hillel chapters refrain from endorsing blatantly anti-Zionist positions, (such as BDS' demand that Israel cease existing as the Jewish state), hardly precludes criticism of the settlements.

[Little Tich]

82. The non-sequitur is the is the conclusion that BDS is against Israel and/or Anti-semitic.

That particular conclusion is not possible to draw from observing actual acts of BDS - they're always connected to the settlements and the occupation, and never target Israel proper. Examples of companies targeted by BDS include Veolia, SodaStream and Orange - there are no companies that get targeted because they do business with Israel.

The settlements aren't Israel, but unfortunately there are people (you) and organizations (Hillel) that seem to be unable to understand that difference. There are of course some people who call themselves the "BDS Movement" who're unable to make that distinction too, but they're a fringe group and their self-appointed leadership is completely ignored.

It's no good making a straw man out of BDS, because the underlying reasons for criticizing the settlements will remain.

[Shaktimaan]

83. Is that so?

BDS has three stated, key goals...

1. Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands and dismantling the Wall
2. Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality; and
3. Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN resolution 194. - See more at: http://www.bdsmovement.net/call#sthash.jlc60VXB.dpuf

Number one I find problematic only in that it presupposes all the territories are exclusively Arab land, and that Jewish presence on it is only via a form of colonialism. Number two is plainly obnoxious as it implies that Israel is opposed to, or has not already recognized the equal rights of Arab Israelis, which is untrue.

But number three demands the right of return be extended to all Palestinian refugees and their descendants, who now number over 5 million. The practical reality of the implementation would be the end of Israel as any semblance of a Jewish state, effectively creating not one, but two Palestinian states.

Furthermore, the idea that Israeli alone should bear the responsibility for the plight of the Palestinian refugees is one born purely of political malice. It would serve neither the refugees nor the Israelis. The vast majority of the refugees were born and have lived their entire lives in Arab states. States who refuse them both citizenship and equal rights strictly in order to use them as human political leverage against Israel. A movement that put the welfare of these people above political concerns would likely seek a rational solution to their situation, such as the demand that they receive citizenship and equal rights in the countries they were born and live in, (as Israel has done with all of it's own Arab citizens.)

[Little Tich]

84. Just ignore the BDS Movement.

They don't know what they're doing, and they're not really connected to those who do the actual BDS, like Norwegian pension funds, Horizon 2020, the Dutch government etc. I buy Israeli products but I also actively refrain from buying settlements products as I feel it's wrong to support Apartheid. I also ignore the BDS Movement completely - they've got nothing to do with BDS in spite of their own assertions.

I see no connection between the examples of BDS I've provided and the BDS Movement.

Therefore, I will cheerfully consider your argument invalid.

[shira]

91. Really? "I see no connection b/w examples of BDS I've provided & BDS movement".

You supported the AAA move to boycott Israel, even though this organization subscribes to the BDS movement's 3 tiers (including right of return of 5 million):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1134119705#post15

No connection?



You also commented that you support BDS here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=97811

That OP described the BDS advocating right-of-return for 5 million.

[Little Tich]

93. I still can't see the connection, even with the evidence you provided.

There's nothing in AAA's resolution that supports your interpretation that it's an endorsement of the "three tiers of the BDS Movement". Resolution here: https://anthroboycott.wordpress.com/the-resolution/.

The other OP about BDS (http://www.democraticunderground.com/113497763) doesn't really support your interpretation that it's only about the "BDS Movement" and nothing else.

[Shaktimaan]

92. I read more about this controversy.

First of all, I'm not sure that what you're saying is entirely correct. The decision to divest exclusively with settlement affiliated companies is certainly one aspect of BDS in action, but from a political standpoint the BDS movement has a large say in defining this debate. Especially for the purposes of our discussion. After all, Hillel is not barring advocates of Horizon 2020 who wish to come speak at Swarthmore. In fact, their guidelines reject speakers who:

Deny the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish and democratic state with secure and recognized borders
Delegitimize, demonize, or apply a double standard to Israel;
Support boycott of, divestment from, or sanctions against the State of Israel;
Exhibit a pattern of disruptive behavior towards campus events or guest speakers or foster an atmosphere of incivility."

The open Hillel movement is dedicated to allowing all points of view regarding Israel in the hopes of encouraging an honest and free debate of the issues surrounding the conflict. There is no doubt that this concept directly violates Hillel's rules:

The brouhaha began on December 8, when the Swarthmore Hillel board declared itself the country’s first “Open Hillel,” part of a movement to make campus Hillels more welcoming to Israel’s critics, including those who believe the state should not exist as a specifically Jewish polity and those calling for boycott, divestment and sanctions against the Jewish state.

Swarthmore Hillel board members announced that all voices would now be accepted in their Hillel. “All are welcome to walk through our doors and speak with our name and under our roof, be they Zionist, anti-Zionist, post-Zionist, or non-Zionist,” they wrote.

http://forward.com/news/israel/189585/swarthmore-hillel-gets-boost-from-controversy-over/#ixzz3sqOR2Dji

That said, I applaud this group's philosophy and agree with their attempts at creating a more inclusive space to better engage with these topics. They're proposing that Hillel change their rules to be more inclusive of allowing a fuller political debate on all things Jewish, including far left and far right viewpoints.

For the record I have no problem with the boycotting of settlement goods. In fact, I encourage it. But I disagree with your characterization of BDS as exclusively representing this position. For the most part, the vast majority of discussion and debate about BDS that I've been able to find has been related to the movement. It is the movement that Hillel wishes to bar from its events, and it is the movement that Open Hillel wishes to include.

[Little Tich]

96. Frankly, very few agree with the BDS Movement, even among those who are positive to BDS.

From what I understand, the Hillel is conflating the BDS Movement with BDS, which is wrong. If you could show me any evidence that Hillel is able to differentiate between the two, I will stop calling the Hillel a chapter of World Likud.

[oberliner]

58. BDS are much better at hasbara than hasbarists

They really are effective in bullying people into getting their way.

And when they don't get their way, making a lot of noise about it.

[azurnoir]

59. Bullying? Like the Canary Mission who's stated goal is ruin the lives of ProPalestinian student?

here's more and it sounds oh so familiar

In short, safety for Jews is conflated with safety for certain Jews: those who are pro-Israel. Criticism of Israel’s actions — though only rarely actually committed in an anti-Semitic manner — is conflated with hatred of Jews, terror, and suspicion. Needless to say, the thousands of Jewish students opposed to Israel’s policies are forgotten. And for those of us, including myself, who have been the victim of violent or verbal anti-Semitism in the past, the conflation of political critique with our own trauma is truly galling.

Zionist students do not need “safe spaces.” Zionist students do not need and absolutely should not have Jewish spaces converted into protected zones for “loving Israel.” In any case, Zionist students do not need to be protected from a horde of evil BDS zombies. If anything, this mentality only creates a clannish, closed, unrealistic environment that does not engage students with anything remotely resembling the real world, or the challenges of the Israel/Palestine conflict.

If anything, the entire mainstream Jewish community is already a “safe space” for Zionist students. Many consider even J Street out of line — and never mind Jewish Voice for Peace. Funding for programming comes from right-wing donors that let you “discover Israel’s salad trail (on stolen Bedouin land)”; Birthright provides thousands of free and uncritical trips to Israel each year. Hillel International’s partnership standards — though now being pushed by some Hillels — prevent certain critical voices from being heard within college Jewish spaces.

If anything, the students who are silenced are the ones who are critical of Israel — be they post-Zionists like myself, BDS advocates, former volunteers for the New Israel Fund, or even those who don’t care. And for all those who have started college chapters of Jewish Voice for Peace and demonstrated with If Not Now, many more silently sit in Hillels across North America. That’s the real silencing.

Read more: http://forward.com/opinion/309787/zionist-students-dont-need-safe-spaces/#ixzz3sbfeZj7r

[King_David]

63. BDS are in the main bigots

Hit back hard at them.
If you join an antisemitic group don't complain when Jews fight back.

Recently BDS banned an American Jew from performing in a reggae festival but allowed a bigoted Gay hatiing POS homophobe to perform at the same concert.

I have no problem fighting back against BDS antisemitic bigots.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

64. Remember, dave, nobody believes your phantoms.

And BDS will prevail against the true bigots.

[azurnoir]

65. so you cheer this type of thing? More about the Canary Mission

new website is publicizing the identities of pro-Palestinian student activists to prevent them from getting jobs after they graduate from college. But the website is keeping its own backers’ identity a secret.

“It is your duty to ensure that today’s radicals are not tomorrow’s employees,” a female narrator intones in a slick video posted to the website’s YouTube account.

Called Canary Mission, the site has posted profiles of dozens of students and recent graduates, alongside those of well-known activists like Omar Barghouti, founder of the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement. Some of the students are active in Students for Justice in Palestine; others were involved in recent pro-BDS resolutions at campuses in California. Many of them have relatively thin activist résumés.

Daniel Pipes, president of the Middle East Forum, defended the tactic as a way of forcing people to understand the seriousness of their political stands.

Read more: http://forward.com/news/308902/shadowy-web-site-creates-black-list-of-pro-palestinian-activists/#ixzz3sf9xTsRP

and yes we know about the Spanish festival where the American Jewish artist preformed -he was initially barred because he refused to sign a statement of solidarity with with a Palestinian State and when the Spanish government came under fire the festivle backers whined -"BDS made us do it" , when in fact it was their own decision

[King_David]

66. Doesn't bother me at all if lives of say for example a homophobic bigot was ruined

If for example Gay rights were opposed or Gay marriage was trashed or Antisemitic actions occurred - I wouldn't lose any sleep whatsoever if those people , that government, those bigots- were ruined.


If for example a government denied their nation Gay rights like for example in a Palestinian statelet like Gaza or in IS or Iran,Or Uganda - fuck them - no support.

BDS are a bunch of bigots -
Recently BDS banned an American Jew from performing in a reggae festival but allowed a bigoted Gay hatiing POS homophobe to perform at the same concert.

[Israeli]

67. In their own words ....

In Their Own Words: What Some Israeli Politicians Really Think About Arabs and LGBTs

With sharp homophobic quips and racist remarks about the country's Arab community, some Israeli parliamentarians and ministers have helped provide fertile ground for minority baiting. Here’s what they have said.

Judy Maltz Aug 04, 2015

Under Netanyahu's rule, all racists feel at home
Analysis Why the Israeli government’s condemnation of Jerusalem Gay Pride attack is hollow
Thousands across Israel protest violence, incitement

Many will say the handwriting was on the wall. The ultra-Orthodox man who murdered a 16-year-old girl at the Jerusalem Gay Pride Parade last Thursday and the Jewish terrorists, still at large, who less than 12 hours later burned alive a Palestinian toddler, did not operate in a vacuum. There are those who will say there was a green light from above.

How much, if at all, do Israel’s democratically elected leaders – its parliamentary representatives and cabinet ministers – bear responsibility for acts of racism and homophobia?

And what did they say to fan the flames?

Here, in their own words, is what politicians from different parties have had to say about Arabs and gays in Israel. While none has expressly advocated outright violence (except perhaps in one isolated case), there are those who have, through their utterances, provided what may be seen as fertile ground for minority baiting.

* It was Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu himself who may have helped set the tone with his famous anti-Arab remarks on Election Day last March. Fearful that his Likud party might not garner enough votes to remain in power, Netanyahu resorted to Arab-baiting a few hours before the polls closed. In his now-famous remarks, which caused an international backlash, the prime minister said the following in a widely circulated video message: “The Arabs are coming out in droves to vote – bused in by the left ...” He eventually apologized.

* The right-wing Yisrael Beiteinu party may sit on the opposition benches these days along with the new Joint Arab List, but that hasn’t made its representatives any more friendly toward Israel’s Arab minority. Just two weeks ago, MK Robert Ilatov had this to say after being named a member of the Judicial Appointments Committee: “In my view, a judge who is not willing to sing ‘Hatikva’ [the Jewish-themed national anthem] cannot be a judge in Israel.” With that, from his point of view at least, he effectively ruled out the possibility of any new Arab appointees to the bench.

* Last month, Deputy Interior Minister Yaron Mazuz of Likud called on Arab members of the Knesset to return their Israeli identification cards, accusing them of engaging in acts of terror and mentioning participation in the 2010 Turkish flotilla incident. That followed a demand by the Joint Arab List to lift a ban that prevents Palestinians married to Israeli citizens from living in Israel. Turning to MK Haneen Zouabi, Mazuz said: “You are the first who ought to return your ID. We are doing you people a favor by even allowing you to be seated here – terrorists won’t be allowed to sit here.”

* Education Minister Naftali Bennett, who is also chairman of the right-wing, religious Habayit Hayehudi party, caused a storm in February when, while addressing a group of high-school students, he insinuated that Arabs and Bedouin are thieves. Bennett has categorically denied this was his intent in what has since come to be known as the “thieves’ speech.” Here’s a quote from it: “Anyone who has toured the Negev in recent years knows that they cannot leave their car near the small Ramon Crater or one of the riverbeds, as it most certainly will be broken into and stolen.” The Negev is a major center for the Bedouin, and so for many in the audience, it seemed clear that the reference was to them.

* A few months before the last election, Likud's Miri Regev, who now serves as minister of culture and sport, delivered a scathing attack of Zuhair Bahloul, a distinguished Arab sportscaster who was running on the Labor Party list (and now serves in the Knesset), in a radio interview. Referring to Bahloul’s run for parliament, she said: “I want Arabs who won’t be Trojan horses.”

* At the height of the last election campaign, Avigdor Lieberman, chairman of the Yisrael Beiteinu party and then foreign minister, came as close as any Israeli leader to advocating physical violence against the country’s Arab minority. “Those who are against us, there’s nothing to be done – we need to pick up an ax and cut off his head,” Lieberman said at a conference at the Interdisciplinary Center, Herzliya in March. “Otherwise we won’t survive here.” He went on to say that there is no reason the Arab town of Umm al-Fahm should remain in Israel, noting that “citizens of the State of Israel who raise a black flag on Nakba Day [referring to the Palestinians' observance of the anniversary of the creation of the State of Israel – from my perspective, they can leave, and I’m very happily willing to donate them to [Palestinian Authority President] Abu Mazen.”

* A year ago, just before the outbreak of the war in the Gaza Strip – when tensions in the country were already flaring – Lieberman added extra fuel to the fire when he called on Israeli Jews to boycott Arab-owned businesses, writing on his Facebook page: “I call upon everyone not to shop anymore at the stores and businesses of those among the Arab sector who are participating today in the general strike that was declared by the Higher Arab Monitoring Committee as a sign of empathy for Gaza residents and against Operation Protective Edge.”

* With barely five months under his belt in the Knesset, Betzalel Smotrich, a member of Habayit Hayehudi, holds the dubious distinction of being the most openly homophobic lawmaker in Israel. Long before launching his parliamentary career, Smotrich famously organized an anti-gay parade known as the “March of the Beasts.” He has since voiced regrets, but, at a debate before the last election, Smotrich still referred to members of the LGBT community as “abnormal.” “Every person has the right to be abnormal at home,” he said, “but he can’t ask of me as a state to see the idea as normal.” A day after the stabbings at last week's Pride parade in Jerusalem, Smotrich had no qualms about referring to the event as the “abomination march.” In a Facebook post, he wrote: “So here I say it again fearlessly: I object vehemently to violence, and promise to object no less vehemently to the recognition of same-sex couples in the Jewish state. I promise to fight violence, and no less than that, I will fight any attempt to besmirch traditional Jewish family values.”

* Three years ago, MK Uri Ariel, who represents Habayit Hayehudi and now serves as agriculture minister, urged the Israel Defense Forces not to recruit homosexuals. “If I were the decision maker, I wouldn’t enlist homosexuals into the IDF, because some things interfere with the military’s ability to fight,” he told the Knesset Channel. “We must conduct ourselves in accordance with Jewish law. The Torah forbids homosexuality and demands that those who behave in such a manner be punished,” he added. 

* Shlomo Benizri, a former government minister and member of the ultra-Orthodox Shas party, once drew a link back in between earthquakes and homosexuality. During a Knesset debate on earthquake preparedness back in 2008, he said: “I suggest that the Knesset inquire into how it can prevent sodomy and thus save us a lot of earthquakes.”

Source : http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.669500

[King_David]

68. Disgusting... Seems those politicians share their homophobic feelings with the Palestinian leaders ,

Arab government leaders and BDS movement.

A good reason that this one state that BDS advocates will be a mitigated disaster for us LGBT.... All the rights and freedoms that we LGBT enjoy today will be lost and Gay life will be taken back to medieval times as it is in Palestinian Statelet of Gaza , IS, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Uganda .

Thanks for posting this on a very important issue Israeli.....any aid or funding to ANY group from any enlightened nation should be conditional on granting Gay rights to their people- Else no AID whatsoever.

Shabbat Shalom Israeli , have a good weekend.

[Israeli]

70. KD .....

Do you know who it was that fought for LGBT rights initially here ?

It was that damned post zionist Shulamit Aloni :........

Activist Proposes Renaming Israeli LGBT Center for Shulamit Aloni

Chairman of Meretz party's gay forum wants to pay tribute to trailblazing leader.

A little more than a week after the death of Shulamit Aloni, the leftist firebrand who fought for equality and civil rights in Israel, a local gay rights activist is proposing a special tribute to her.

Dror Mizrachi, chairman of the Meretz party's gay forum, wrote a letter to Tel Aviv-Jaffa Mayor Ron Huldai to recommend that the city's LGBT community center be renamed for the late leader, Channel 2 reported on Monday.

The community center in Meir Park has for years served as a hub for Tel Aviv's and Israel's LGBT community.

"Aloni's life is intertwined with many landmarks of the revolutions she sparked, among them eliminating the archaic prohibition against homosexuality in 1988," Mizrachi wrote. "Aloni was also beloved among the LGBT community and blazed a trail for many of its members in public life."

Tel Aviv's commemoration and names committee is responsible for renaming streets and institutions in the city, and it gets dozens of proposals every year, Channel 2 reported.

However, municipal regulations stipulate that the committee can consider a request to rename a landmark or street only two years after a person has died.

"The late Shulamit Aloni is worthy of commemoration and in due time we will pass the request to the commemoration and names committee," the municipality wrote in response to Mizrachi's request, according to Channel 2.
 
Source : http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.572225

When you mock us ....you mock her .

[King_David]

72. I never mocked Shulamit Aloni

And she was part of Meretz at that time, a Zionist party .

Just about every Gay dude I know in Israel is Zionist , a one state would take Gay rights that are enjoyed currently back to medieval times ( as they are in the 2 Pslestinian statelets currently)
Who would want that?

[Israeli]

79. Keep telling yourself that KD .....

.....if it makes you feel better .

The intervening years have seen Jews like Amos Oz, Naomi Chazan, Shulamit Aloni, Amira Hass, Gideon Levy, Peter Beinart, Sara Benninga, Uri Savir, Avraham Burg, Jeff Halper, Yossi Beilin, and six former chiefs of Israel’s own secret service agency, as well as organizations like Peace Now, Yesh Gvul, Gush Shalom, Women in Black, Breaking the Silence, Ta’ayush, Combatants for Peace, the Israeli-Palestinian Bereaved Families Forum, the New Israel Fund, Brit Tzedek v’Shalom, and J Street – along with all their supporters and dues payers and fellow travelers – all telling anyone who would listen that Israel was headed for disaster, that only a just and durable peace could save Israel from itself, that an ugly, angry, rejectionist ultra-nationalism was on the rise, and only we could stop it.

But mostly, we chose not to listen.

Rather than use our vaunted Jewish intelligence to question the very idea that any occupation could ever be enlightened; rather than mine the free press that flourishes in our democracies to seek the truth; rather than look the Palestinian people in the eye and see their pain – we have chosen to listen to those who make us feel good about ourselves. We turn the page when Hass or Beinart appear. We close our minds and our social halls to Breaking the Silence and J Street. We march in Israel Day parades and send emails about BDS and sing Hatikva.

And today Israel and the Zionist dream of a democratic, Jewish homeland hang by a thread. We are inches from a one-state “solution” predicated on the permanent, illegal, unjust and immoral subjugation of millions of people, one that will be soaked in blood (who knows better than Jews that the subjugated tend to rise up?), and leave in tatters the Jewish values we claim to hold so dear.

It’s profoundly easy, and deeply comforting, to think that Israeli politicians like Uri Ariel and Ayelet Shaked and American leaders like Sheldon Adelson and Mort Klein are the problem. That they have taken our dreams and roughed them up, and oy, what can we do?

But the simple truth is that these people – just like the settlers who set mosques alight and the soldiers who kick little boys – are doing what we have let them do.

That’s what silence does. That’s what willed and willfully instilled ignorance does. Those who don’t stand up against that which is wrong are partners in the outcome.

The right didn’t have to kidnap anything. The silent middle handed it over, with a nice shiny bow.

Read more: http://forward.com/opinion/israel/198457/zionism-wasnt-kidnapped-it-was-handed-over/#ixzz3slNkO9lo

[azurnoir]

69. Spanish fest cancels Matisyahu gig over refusal to endorse Palestinian state

http://www.timesofisrael.com/spanish-fest-cancels-matisyahu-gig-over-refusal-to-endorse-palestinian-state/

Matisyahu did preform at the festival

The BDS connection was the claim endorsed by a Times of Israel author, and later when after a sh*t storm was raised over this and the Spanish government stepped in parroted by the festival's backers,

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

71. Me too, dave...

Remenber when a poster in I/P endorsed the LGBTQ-hating, "our state book is the bible" Tennessee legislature for voting on a non-binding resolution against BDS?

If one applauds a bunch of racist, bible-cranking homophobes that would make me question that person WRT their veracity and other claims they have made about themselves and others.

I would work to make sure that person got as much expisure for their counterfeit POV as humanly possible.

I hope you would as well.

[oberliner]

74. Would you characterize the Palestinian leadership as "racist, bible-cranking homophobes" ?

Last edited Fri Nov 27, 2015, 10:05 PM - Edit history (1)

Just with a different holy book?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

75. Are you suggesting that they are comperable to

the LGBTQ-hatimg Tennessee GOP?

[grossproffit]

106. Which one does more "honor" killings?