Israel's Shabak pulls the rug under Netanyahu's feet -

[Jefferson23]

Meron Rapoport
Sunday 29 November 2015

When Israel appointed Yorm Cohen in 2011 as the head of Israel's General Security Service (GSS, better known in its Hebrew name Shabak, also as Shin Bet), his nomination was received with apprehension by some parts of the population. Orthodox Jews widely identified politically with the settler movement support Cohen. Appointing an allegedly settlement-supporter as the head of Shabak could be considered as letting the cat keep an eye on the milk.

Four years later, it is hard know whether Cohen has changed his political affiliation while in office. Yet he has definitely became a constant party spoiler for Prime Minister Benyamin Netanyahu, disputing allegations made by Netanyahu against Palestinian President Mahmud Abbas and his Palestinian Authority.

In November 2014, after two Palestinians killed four civilian Israelis and an Israeli policeman in a synagogue in Jerusalem, Netanyahu rushed to claim that incitement by Abbas was at the core of this attack. Cohen, appearing before the Knesset's Foreign and Security Committee, flatly rejected these claims.

"Abu Mazen [Abbas] is not encouraging terror," he told Israeli parliamentarians, "is not interested in terror and doesn't lead to terror, even under the table."

- See more at: http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/shabak-pulls-rug-under-netanyahus-feet-1317216781#sthash.Qob67RCh.dpuf

[shira]

1. Abbas: “We welcome every drop of blood spilled in Jerusalem...."

“We welcome every drop of blood spilled in Jerusalem. This is pure blood, clean blood, blood on its way to Allah. With the help of Allah, every martyr will be in heaven, and every wounded will get his reward.”

Mahmoud Abbas - Sept 16, 2015

http://www.wsj.com/articles/abbas-we-welcome-every-drop-of-blood-spilled-in-jerusalem-1445209820




Abbas declines to condemn murder of Israelis...

Nov 13, 2015
As Israelis ushered in the Jewish Sabbath with the grim news of the brutal murder of a father and son near Hebron, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas declined to offer a condemnation on Friday.

During a joint press conference with the president of Cyprus, the Palestinian rais told journalists in Ramallah that "our people are living under difficult conditions which have become intolerable."

"The continued Israeli occupation of our country and the escalating violence by settlers who are harming our property is filling us with despair," Abbas told the visiting President Nicos Anastasiades.

Though the president was asked specifically about Friday's shooting, he sidestepped the issue, instead accusing Israel of "obstinateness" and blaming the escalation in violence on "a lack of a diplomatic horizon."

http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Abbas-declines-to-condemn-murder-of-Israelis-We-are-despaired-by-occupation-432962

[Jefferson23]

2. You have no link to the first quote, why is that? n/t

[shira]

3. WSJ. Just added it in, thanks. n/t

[Jefferson23]

4. The author is a member of the Likud Party, and I am not a subscriber to the WSJ, you

can only read a brief paragraph.

There is no direct quote with a link that I can find on it..none.

[shira]

5. Here's Israel's MFA, with video...

http://mfa.gov.il/MFA/ForeignPolicy/Issues/Pages/PA-Chairman-Abbas-incites-to-violence-in-Jerusalem.aspx

[Jefferson23]

7. Again, the quote is no where to be found except through the Israeli Likud. The

video has pauses and is not appearing to be in full. There is nothing from the White House
on it which gives me greater pause, since this was back in September when he allegedly
made the statements. The translation is dependent upon the Israeli foreign ministry.

If this were accurate, the WH would have made a statement..I don't see
how Kerry would have ignored it.

[shira]

6. Here's the NewYorker's Bernard Avishai with the same quote....

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/what-provoked-palestinian-knife-attacks-in-israel

In no way, shape, or form can Avishai be considered rightwing.

[Jefferson23]

8. Same problem and to imagine the WH would ignore Abbas is quite a stretch. n/t

[shira]

9. House Resolution #293 passed by Congress...

https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-resolution/293/text

That direct quote is within the resolution.

[leftynyc]

10. Nicely done, Shira

All I can imagine is a child sticking their fingers in their ears while shouting LA.LA LA LA. All while swallowing whole any quote uttered by anyone with Jewish blood anywhere in the wold without question. And they wonder why US policy remains as it does. They actually expect Americans to throw support to people who ELECTED a terrorist organization and the thoroughly corrupt and bloodthirsty Abbas.

[azurnoir]

13. I agree it shows how very dependent on Republicans such bills are

[leftynyc]

18. LOL

Those trying to make Israel a partisan issue are making a huge mistake. NOBODY running on a proP platform and trashes Israel wouldn't lose by a huge margin. But keep deluding yourself. While the Palestinians continue to suffer.

[azurnoir]

26. so you're US politicians are running on proIsrael platforms?

that's the only way your comment has any point otherwise why make such a statement?

[leftynyc]

31. Of course they are

The subject comes up all the time - especially these days. It's part of just about every single platform. Does Israel have the right to exist and do they have the right to defend themselves - the answer is always yes. ALWAYS. Pretending otherwise just proves how deluded you are about how Americans feel about this issue. That 16% that supports the Palestinians hasn't changed and will never change unless it gets even lower.

[azurnoir]

38. so now it's when they're asked which is more like it

[leftynyc]

41. It's a freeking poll

Of course they're asked a question. WHat are you babbling about.

[Jefferson23]

11. Yes, they use the same source, which is the Israeli government. What I said was, there is

nothing I could find that attributes this quote from Abbas that is outside the realm
of the Israeli government. I also said, it gives me great pause since Kerry has not
issued any reaction to this specifically that I could find...and that would be very
odd indeed for him to do. He was recently in Israel and said nothing about it in
his statements and this was suppose to have occurred back in September.

That resolution was drafted back in June, btw.

[King_David]

14. I think Shira decimated every single sequential argument of yours...

Every single one.....

[Jefferson23]

16. Of course you would. One would need the desire not to reconcile why the

Shin Bet and the White House, including Kerry, have not promoted nor even mentioned
that quote, never mind attribute it to Abbas.

But you and your like minded are free to do just that, regardless.

[shira]

24. (Oct 16, 2015) Kerry warns Abbas against inciting violence

http://www.timesofisrael.com/kerry-warns-abbas-against-inciting-violence/

[Jefferson23]

25. Nothing in that quote you're relying on is referenced, you know this, shira.

If you really believe Kerry or the WH would have let that quote wait a month
with silence on it, you're fooling yourself. The time line of what the state
department said and then what Kerry said is clear, from your own link.

Second, why the Shin Bet would not support such a use of that alleged
quote is telling as well. They don't buy what Bibi is selling about Abbas.

* November, Kerry's visit to Israel:
"This is an effort to see if we can get some concrete steps in place - begin to build them, maybe - that could calm things down a little bit so people aren't living in absolute, daily terror that they might be stabbed or driven into or shot trying to walk around their city," he said.
"It happens almost every day over there and it's terrible, and too many Israelis have been killed and stabbed, and too many Palestinians," Kerry told reporters. "And there's no excuse for any of the violence."

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4729991,00.html

[leftynyc]

33. Are you pretending

that Americans put those daily stabbings on the same plane as the cops and military killing and wounding those terrorists? That would be very foolish of you. Americans know who is engaging in violence for the sake of violence. Your delusion that they think Israelis are wrong for killing terrorists is one of the many reasons your position is so unpopular among Americans - 16% of which sympathize with the Palestinians. 16% - that's a pathetic number to hang your hat on.

[azurnoir]

12. let's take a look of the 71 co sponsors 42 were Republican it was introduced to the house in June

by a Republican but did not pass until now, could we say that Israel's or Netanyahu's supporters took advantage of current situation to push through a stalled bill, looks that way to me

oh what action has the POTUS taken?

[King_David]

15. 71 - 42 = bipartisan

[azurnoir]

17. with a strong Republican majority almost 2:1 in fact

I wonder how many of them are the same as the ones who "linked arms" with Ted Cruz and company to cheer Bibi's attempted take down of of our Democratic POTUS policies earlier this year

[King_David]

19. I see math not your strongpoint

Bipartisan

Democratic Party supports Israel ...period

[leftynyc]

20. Those pathetically trying

To make Israel a partisan issue - that would be putting them in he same bed as the teabaggers - are beneath contempt and only fooling themselves. Let them pretend Abbas wants to actually help the Palestinians all while sending them down the same blind alley their other thoroughly corrupt and bloodthirsty leaders have. They're great at deluding themselves and at patting themselves on their backs while the Palestinians continue to suffer.

[King_David]

21. Even calling 42:29 a 2:1 ratio is pretty pathetic all in of itself...

Bipartisan

[leftynyc]

22. If he's so sure

Americans have turned against Israel lets we some candidates try that argument and see how far they get. Gee, I wonder why they haven't ever tried given how unpopulat they claim Israel is.

[ericson00]

23. by almost 4-1, Americans overall favor Israel over Palestinians

and 7 in 10 view the Jewish state favorably.

Truth hurts anti-Israelers.

[azurnoir]

28. and when you break it down it is largely Republicans 81% vs Democrats 48%

[leftynyc]

34. Since you want to throw numbers around

How about commenting on that 7 in 10 that view Israel favorably. Got anything to say about that while you're pushing that Israel should be a partisan issue (just like the teabaggers are trying to do - great company you're keeping there)?

[azurnoir]

37. when the majority of that 7 in 10 are Republican is cheering in order? 81% Republican

[ericson00]

35. you do realize those numbers are not supplementary to 100, right

as in that graphic doesn't actually mean 17% of Republicans, 41% of independents, and 52% of Democrats sympathize more with the Palestinians, right? There's also a "neither/DK" and "no response" option, just like the overall numbers.

I know where you got that graph: here's a similar survey which demonstrates what I mean:
<a href="http://www.people-press.org/2014/07/15/as-mideast-violence-continues-a-wide-partisan-gap-in-israel-palestinian-sympathies/new-7-15-2014-11-00-38-am/"><img width="352" height="686" src="" class="attachment-large" alt="Mideast sympathies race age education ideo religion" /></a>

Even amongst conservative and liberal Democrats, Israel still wins big. If each result were an election, they'd all be Israel landslides.

[leftynyc]

36. Of course it would be a landslide

The delusion that Americans would dump Israel for the Palestinians (the ONLY people who actually were celebrating 9/11) is a fantasy that just refuses to die even in the face of every single poll showing the exact same thing.

[azurnoir]

40. Did you get dizzy writing that, so much spin but bald facts from m your own link

[ericson00]

43. what's your point? Fact is among all groups, Israel 2:1 or better support over the Palis

whether you like it or not, and its only gone up in recent years and will go up.

[azurnoir]

29. I said almost actually about 1.5 or do you want it down to 100ths :)

[leftynyc]

32. Of course it's bipartisan

Americans will never support an entity or a people that think violence is okay or think that hating Israel and comparing them to nazis is a legitimate position. And I guess math isn't his strong suit. I actually laughed out loud at that 2:1 statement.

[azurnoir]

27. Nothing pathetic here Israel has become a partisan issue Ted Cruz accomplished that

unless of course you side with Cruz against Obama?

[leftynyc]

30. It's YOU that has

sided with Cruz by your pathetic attempts to make Israel a partisan issue - just like you're doing right here. You can stop pretending there is some groundswell of support for the Palestinians with your graph. The VAST majority of Democrats either support Israel or think we should stay neutral. The number that sympathizes with the Palestinians is 16%. So the REAL comparison among Democrats is 48% vs 16% - that number supporting the Palestinians hasn't changed AT ALL. The more terrorism the Palestinians engage in and support, the less support they're going to get among Americans so even those numbers above are going to get worse for your position. Americans don't support violence as a political tool. One day, you'll realize that. But obviously not today.

[azurnoir]

39. So now you claim I'm a Ted Cruz sympathizer even though my politics run opposite to his?

because I mention that it was Ted Cruz who engaged Netanyahu behind the POTUS back, yet you seem more disturbed by my mentioning it than the fact it occurred at all

[leftynyc]

42. LOL

And now you accuse me of what you just did....saying you sympathize with Cruz when I very obviously did no such thing. But you did. One day you'll realize I side with a larger percentage of Democrats than your pathetically small minority of Democrats. I love that you just keep digging that hole.

[ericson00]

44. also, its clear that if Obama got along better with Bibi,

those numbers would be even more favorable to Israel. When Hillary is President, they will rise.

[leftynyc]

45. Yes, they will

The Israeli's I met with like her very much. But holy cow, those on the right AND the left there really don't like Pres Obama.

[Israeli]

65. How many Leftists did you meet on your tourist trip leftynyc....

....and where exactly ??

This Israeli Leftist has always "liked" Obama ....cant say the same for Hilary tho ...sorry .

[leftynyc]

66. Our main tour guide

(we were on private tours) and all the others (4 in total) were all on the left - the kibbutz we went to visit a family friend at and had lunch were all leftists, everyone we struck up conversation with in restaurants and the only one I can think of that was on the right was a frum friend of my brother in law (they grew up together in NY and now he and his wife are in Tzfat). They were also all Jewish. We had to be careful where we went as Americans are also targets of the terrorists. They were ALL Hillary fans - including the friends in Tzfat.

[Israeli]

67. Hey ....

I'm the one that told you before your trip to be careful where you went and that Americans were also targets ....or have you forgotten already ?

So ALL these Leftists you met told you they did not like President Obama ???

Bullshit leftynyc.

[leftynyc]

68. No bullshit

I was very surprised at their vehemence against the President. I defended him up and down the line but they wouldn't budge. They all HATED Pres Obama. Their equal vehemence against Bibi is what surprised me. It all came down to the relationship with the US - they feel both Pres Obama and Bibi have hurt that relationship - tried to make it a partisan issue - and they all resented that very much.

And yes, I do remember your warning and took it to heart. I should have thanked you sooner. Apologies.

[Israeli]

70. I have never met an Israeli Leftist ....

...that hates Obama ....know plenty of Right wing Israelis that do tho .

No need for apologies ....happy you enjoyed your trip and made it home safely .

[leftynyc]

72. Don't know what to tell you

Every single person I met didn't like Obama and didn't like bibi - no exceptions. And for the same exact reason. It was surreal.

[Israeli]

73. Sounds surreal to me to leftynyc......

So lets put it in some perspective .....you were here for how long ?
You met how many Leftists ??

I who have lived 65 years here , born and bred as a Leftist have never met an Israeli Leftist that hates Obama .

but hey ....... I bow down to your advanced experience

[shira]

69. The Leftists she met were probably what you'd consider Left of Center or Centrists. n/t

[Israeli]

71. Probably shira ....

....but on a kibbutz ...I doubt it .

So who do you consider as Leftists then .....Meretz ??

[azurnoir]

49. so it's Obama's fault? Has nothing to do with Ted Cruz and Netanyahu's attempt to undercut

the Democratic POTUS?

[azurnoir]

48. The mere mention of the implications of Cruz's actions towards Obama are more disturbing to some

in running to Netanyahu behind the POTUS's back and Netanyahu's more than willing cooperation in this, seem much more disturbing to you and others here than the fact that it happened at all-interesting indeed

[leftynyc]

50. The invitation came from Boehner

No idea why you keep bringing up cruz as if cruz being an asshole has fuck all to do with Americans being much more sympathetic to Israel. Keep digging, you'll find that pony any minute now.

[azurnoir]

51. sorry I confuse the Teappers but still point made thank you

[leftynyc]

52. And what point is it

you think you made? That by strong majorities Americans sympathize with Israel more than the Palestinians - 48% vs 16% among Democrats? How about the point that 7 out of 10 Americans have positive feelings for Israel? That point? How about the fact that because ted cruz or john boehner like potato chips, I'm not obligated to hate them just to not be on the same side (which is the most infantile argument I've ever heard). Keep digging.

[azurnoir]

53. again 7 out of 10 includes 81% of that 7 figure are Republicans

[leftynyc]

54. LOL

So you're going to stick the infantile he likes potato chips so I'm going to hate them argument. Good luck with that trying to make Israel a partisan issue while the Palestinians continue to suffer - that 16% you're part of is bound to get them what they want....someday.

[FBaggins]

55. Your math skills are lousy

81% of that 7 figure are Republicans

Nope. Only about one in four in the Gallup poll self-identify as Republican. So only two of those seven are Republicans (81% of 28%). The other five are Democrats or Independents.

Excluding Republicans entirely from the sample... There's still overwhelmingly more support for Israelis than there is for the Palestinians.

[azurnoir]

56. Take another look at the graph 81% Republicans vs 48% of Democrats

[FBaggins]

58. Again... your post lacks in the most basic math skills

The only way for 81% of the "7-in-10" to be Republicans would be for all ten to be Republicans.

In reality, Republicans only make up about two of those seven supporting Israel... because Republicans make up such a small percentage of the overall population.

Some other graphs that you conveniently ignore:

[azurnoir]

59. so you post 2 graph that have no party break downs, but when you break it down by party affiliation

it looks like this

[FBaggins]

60. The two graphs were unrelated to the simple mathematical correction.

As noted - they were just other things that you're unable to allow yourself to come to grips with. Like the fact that whichever stat you look at, support for Israel has been growing over the last couple decades... not declining.

when you break it down by party affiliation

When you break it down by party affiliation, there are more I's than either R's or D's - yet most of them vote D. They make up a large portion of that "7 in 10" stat.

There's simply no dodging the simple fact that it doesn't matter whether we're talking R/D/I - or by age - or in-total. Support for Israel is dramatically higher than for the Palestinians.

This group sees quite a bit of intellectual dishonesty (perhaps unknowingly) in the form of ad-hominem fallacious claims that supporters of Israel are "right-wing" - when that simply isn't true.

[azurnoir]

61. Not when it is broken down by party affiliation I have no problem with the rest

it seems some here are intent on sailing a river in Egypt when it comes to member of which party are the most supportive of Israel

[FBaggins]

62. Sorry.. you're the one in denial

83% of Republicans is only 21% of the population if Republicans are 25% of the sample (which is likely if this poll was from early this year). If another poll says that 7 in 10 support Israel nationally...only two of those seven are Republicans. The majority of support for Israel is thus coming from Democrats and Independents.

You're spamming this one graph... desperately trying to make it say something that it simply doesn't say.

when it comes to member of which party are the most supportive of Israel

We aren't debating which party is most supportive of Israel. All three blocks show solid plurality support for Israel and dramatically more support than for the Palestinians.

All three also show growing support for Israel over the last couple decades. It isn't relevant that that one party's support is growing faster... because your false claim has continually been that almost exclusively from Republicans (when support among Independents has roughly doubled over the last two decades.

[azurnoir]

63. spin away the poll is quite plain though and how do you explain the House and Senate not to mention

Governors that are majority GOP ?

[FBaggins]

64. The poll IS quite plain... which makes your claim of spin quite ironic.

The poll clearly says that Democrats support Israelis dramatically more than they do Palestinians... Independents support them even more than that... and Republicans support them even more than either of the other two. It also says that support among all three groups has generally increased over the last couple decades.

What it doesn't say is that Israel is a partisan issue that Republicans support and Democrats don't. Or that most of Israel's support comes from Republicans. Or that a resolution that passed overwhelmingly by voice vote was not bipartisan because a slightly lower percentage of sponsors were Democrats.

how do you explain the House and Senate not to mention Governors that are majority GOP ?

What's to explain? Party ID is not the same thing as who shows up to vote - or who they vote for (particularly when it comes to Independents) - or how they are distributed across the states (let alone gerrymandering). VERY few races come down to issues related to Israel... since (as has been pointed out multiple times), support is fairly strong across the board.

[FBaggins]

46. Israel is in no sense a partisan issue

Democrats support Israel over the Palestinians by more than 2-1. The fact that Republicans are even more supportive doesn't make it a partisan issue.

Pathetic indeed...

[shira]

47. The point isn't to make Americans like Palestinians more; it's to hate Israel more. n/t

[FBaggins]

57. Of course

But we must maintain the convenient fiction that it has nothing to do with anti-Semitism.