'If Israel wasn't occupying West Bank, Palestinian kids wouldn't need to kill Jews'

[Mosby]

A lawmaker with the Arab nationalist Balad Party rejected accusations on Tuesday that his colleagues’ meeting with the families of Palestinian terrorists last week was tantamount to “a provocation.”

The Knesset Ethics Committee suspended Balad’s three MKs from all Knesset activity except for voting on Monday for up to four months, days after the lawmakers met with terrorists’ families.

Balad is one of the parties making up the Joint List.

MKs Haneen Zoabi and Basel Ghattas received four-month suspensions, and Balad chairman Jamal Zahalka, who has fewer past punishments from the committee, will be suspended for two months.

-snip-

http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/If-Israel-wasnt-occupying-West-Bank-Palestinian-kids-wouldnt-need-to-kill-Jews-444330

MK Ghattas is a sick, sick person.

[Purveyor]

1. Cause and effect. Pretty simple actually. eom

[Mosby]

2. to you maybe

there is this thing called proportionality.

Not to mention the Palestinians can sit down and negotiate with Israel anytime they want.

[FBaggins]

3. At the level of a four-year-old... sure.

"He changed the channel... so I hit him!" is still a claim of cause and effect and justification for actions.

Never mentioned is the irrational assumption that the channel (in this case) was changed for a reason... and not because "he's just a mean person"

[hack89]

4. If Israel abandoned the West Bank, there are Palestinians that would still kill Jews

Last edited Tue Feb 9, 2016, 04:52 PM - Edit history (1)

until they "liberate" all of Palestine. Hamas comes immediately to mind.

[6chars]

8. heck, if there was no Israel, there would still be Muslims that would kill Jews

like in France and so on today, looking behind every garkad tree.

[King_David]

14. Jews like myself and half this group ?

Guess thats what its all about huh?

[branford]

24. Really?

I believe you've forgotten that period from 1947 to 1967 when Israel did not control the West Bank and Palestinians (or more accurately, Egyptians, Jordanians and Syrians living in the later occupied territories of the Sinai and Gaza, the West Bank and Golan, respectively) were still zealously killing Israelis (and Jews generally). The mantra then, and for many still is, "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free."

Of course, if a Palestinian terrorist kills or tries to kill an Israeli and is then killed in the process, the terrorist's death is entirely unsurprising. Cause and effect. Pretty simple actually. More importantly, mos people view don't view the family of the terrorist as the victims of the murder.

[azurnoir]

5. MK Basel Ghattas who is a Christian Arab BTW was there along with the other MK's because

Israel has been holding the bodies of their family members for months there by preventing a funeral as a punitive measure

more from the JPost story

The Balad deputy told Army Radio that the moment of silence was not unlike the custom observed on Israel’s holidays in honor of fallen soldiers and Holocaust survivors.

“The moment of silence gave us a very strong feeling, a feeling that we are a nation like any other,” Ghattas said. “There is no nation that recognizes and honors its victims like the Jewish people. These are noble customs. The terminology on both sides is different, so a murderer to you is a victim of the occupation in the eyes of my people.”

[COLGATE4]

6. That is the crux of the problem. He considers these

people worthy of 'honor' for trying to kill Israelis. Strange definition of 'honor'.

[azurnoir]

7. Didn't the Haganah and Irgun consider their dead fighters worthy of honor while the British thought

them to be terrorists?

[aranthus]

9. So what?

What matters is whether the Haganah actually were terrorists, not what the British called them. And it's whether Palestinian attacks on civilians are actually terrorist attacks (which they are). But you knew that.

[azurnoir]

10. depends on your PoV and in the case of Brits in Palestine they did not move their civilians

to Palestine, not so in India where indeed British civilians died

[aranthus]

11. No, it doesn't depend on one's POV.

If there isn't a reasonable objective understanding of what terrorism is, then there's nothing to discuss about anything. If every contentious issue is "just someone's point of view", then rational discussion and thought are not possible.

[azurnoir]

12. in the case of occupied people vs the occupying power yes it does depend on PoV

[King_David]

16. So its ok to kill Jewish civilians?

Like they used to in Russia?

Israel's reason for existance.

[azurnoir]

19. do you think that? did I say that or is that what you want to think if so go ahead

I don't deal in attempts at thought control I'll leave that sort of explaining to others

[King_David]

17. Another case where you need go do some reading on this topic....

Obviously.....its not an easy subject to grasp just from an internet forum.

[azurnoir]

20. In a broad overall yes it is I do not take a micro view of the only this situation

perhaps some study of history is needed by some on a broader range of military occupations, not just the one where they feel the occupiers to be the so called 'good guys'

[aranthus]

23. You're arguing against rationality. n/t

[azurnoir]

25. am I another example King George III vs George Washington

[aranthus]

26. What are you babbling about?

Are you really trying to suggest that the British in 1776 calling Washington a terrorist actually made him a terrorist? That's insipid, and makes my point. You are arguing against rational thought.

[azurnoir]

27. the fact that you resort to insult says much about your stance right there

yes the British said Washington and his rebel army were terrorists much as the British said the Haganah and Irgun were also terrorists, whether one is a terrorist or a freedom fighter all depends on ones PoV ie which side you're on

[aranthus]

28. That is not rational.

It means that the words terrorist and freedom fighter don't mean anything since they mean whatever the person speaking wants it to mean. If you truly believe what you are writing then there is nothing to discuss with you ever.

[shira]

13. You think that's the same as Palestinian terrorism?

You think the Haganah or Irgun incited & intentionally targeted kids, elderly, pregnant women - and then went on to praise & reward such acts, which incited even more...?

[azurnoir]

18. rather canned question isn't it, as the British presence in Palestine was military

and once again the MK's were there to comfort families whom the government of Israel is very maliciously denying a funeral to

[Little Tich]

22. What about Begin and Shamir?

They were both terrorists of the worst kind, and later they became Prime Ministers of Israel. They couldn't have been elected if Israel had turned their backs on Jewish terrorists. I think Israel is very biased when it comes to Jewish terrorists - they were never even tried for their crimes. There are people who still admire these guys, there are streets and monuments named after them, heck there's even a Menachem Begin Heritage Center... Do you really think all this could have happened without incitement and an Israeli acceptance for Jewish terrorism?

Here's more info on what Begin and Shamir did:

Are Begin and Shamir Also Considered Terrorists?
Source: Haaretz, Jun 24, 2011

From the end of 1937 until the middle of 1939, in less than two years, the terrorist activities of the Irgun and Lehi claimed 232 victims with another 370 wounded - men, women and children.

(snip)

There is no room here to mention all of the activities for which these organizations took responsibility, but here are a few typical cases: On 4.11.1937 - five dead and eight wounded in shooting at a bus in the Jerusalem suburb of Romema; 16.7.38 - 10 killed and three wounded including four women, a boy and young girl, by a bomb hidden in a basket of vegetables; 26.7.38 - 27 killed and 46 wounded when a bomb exploded in Haifa's Arab market; 29.5.39 - five killed and 18 wounded when mines were detonated in the Rex Cinema in Jerusalem, and among the seriously wounded were a Jewish man and woman; 20.6.39 - 78 killed by a bomb in the Haifa vegetable market.

And we have not mentioned the best known incidents - the explosion at the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, the massacre at Dir Yassin, the executions of Jews who were suspected of cooperating with the foreign occupier (at least 10 cases ), and the assassinations of some of the representatives of His Majesty's government and of the international community in the region or in the country.

From the end of 1937 until the middle of 1939, in less than two years, the terrorist activities of the Irgun and Lehi claimed 232 victims with another 370 wounded - men, women and children. All of this was detailed in the semi-official book, that was republished in 1981 with the assistance of the Defense Ministry.

I had difficulty calculating the exact number of the hundreds of fatalities from the period of terror between 1946 and 1948. Anyone interested in the figures can find them in the book and do the calculations themselves.

The acts of the fathers served as a lesson for the sons, and even after 1948 and 1967, the acts of Jewish terrorism did not stop. Many of these terrorists walk among us, free, today and those who were caught and sentenced were pardoned.

Read more: http://www.haaretz.com/are-begin-and-shamir-also-considered-terrorists-1.369342

[King_David]

15. Doesn't say Israelis, it says Jews.......

[Little Tich]

21. Shame on the Knesset "Ethics" Committee...

The families of dead terrorists are subjected to collective punishment, and it would be a sad day for any democracy when MPs can be suspended for speaking up against injustice.