Irish FM: BDS is a 'legitimate political viewpoint'

[Little Tich]

Source: Jerusalem Post

“While the [Irish] Government does not itself support such a policy, it is a legitimate political viewpoint, albeit one regarded in Israel as deeply hostile,” the Irish FM.

In advance of his June visit to Israel, Irish Foreign Minister Charles Flanagan has confirmed the legitimacy of the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement.

“While the [Irish] government does not itself support such a policy, it is a legitimate political viewpoint, albeit one regarded in Israel as deeply hostile,” he told the Irish parliament last Thursday during a question and answer session.

“I do not agree with attempts to demonize those who advocate this policy, or to equate them with violent terrorists,” he said.

“I am deeply concerned about wider attempts to pressure NGOs and human rights defenders through legislation and other means to hinder their important work. We have raised this both at the EU level and directly with the Israeli authorities,” he said.

Read more: http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Politics-And-Diplomacy/Irish-FM-BDS-is-a-legitimate-political-viewpoint-455467

[6chars]

1. I can see how the Irish FM would feel that way

From Wikipedia:

(FM Charles) Flanagan was first elected to Dáil Éireann at the 1987 general election, succeeding his father Oliver J. Flanagan.

Oliver J. Flanagan (22 May 1920 – 26 April 1987) was an Irish Fine Gael politician who served in Dáil Éireann for 43 years and was Minister for Defence for six months. Prior to his election to the Dáil, Flanagan had been Secretary of a local branch of the Fianna Fáil party. He was elected to the Dáil fourteen times between 1943 and 1982, topping the poll on almost every occasion. He was Father of the Dáil from 1981 until his retirement in 1987, and he remains one of the longest-serving members in the history of the Dáil.

Flanagan was a social conservative, who famously claimed that "there was no sex in Ireland before television". A notorious anti-semite, he used his maiden speech in the Dáil, on 9 July 1943, to urge the government to "rout the Jews out of this country".

[King_David]

2. There you have it.

[Little Tich]

7. Flanagan is a member of the Oireachtas Friends of Israel parliamentary group.

Info here:
http://markhumphrys.com/pro.israel.ireland.html

I'm actually very happy to prove you wrong...

[shira]

3. Flanagan is specifically referring to Omar Barghouti's BDS, which you presumably support....

https://www.sott.net/article/319225-Support-grows-for-BDS-campaign-as-several-European-governments-state-it-is-a-legitimate-viewpoint

One day you support Barghouti's BDS, then you oppose, now you reverse yourself again...

[Little Tich]

5. I've never supported Barghouti's BDS, simply because I don't believe Israel should be boycotted.

I do, however, support boycotting the Apartheid in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. I regularly buy Israeli products, but I stay clear of products from the settlements.

Now, the OP: Flanagan is specifically referring to Barghouti as not doing anything illegal - nothing else.

[shira]

6. That's all you disagree with when it comes to Barghouti?

It's also dishonest to accuse Israel of "apartheid" in the W.Bank.

We've debated that before & you know very well you can't defend that allegation.

[Little Tich]

8. Funny, I distincty remember proving conclusively to you that there's Apartheid in the West Bank and

East Jerusalem...

I suppose you found my argumentation to be weak and unconvincing - but that's alright, we can try again some time.

There are NGOs like Rabbis for Human Rights, Gush Shalom, B'Tselem and Amnesty that are collecting new evidence that I can use to prove (again?) that there's Apartheid in the West Bank and East Jerusalem.

[shira]

9. You had no clue how to respond to the fact that Israeli Arabs...

Last edited Tue May 31, 2016, 06:56 PM - Edit history (2)

....also work and/or live in E.Jerusalem and the W.Bank, and yet they are treated differently than Palestinians due solely to citizenship. Israeli Arabs are of the same ethnicity, race, religion, etc... as any Palestinian so this "Apartheid" is based on citizenship, which means it's not apartheid at all. Jews and Israeli Arabs are treated one way as citizens, and non-citizens are treated differently. No apartheid, but you already know that.

It's supremely dishonest of you to keep rolling with that lie, which does nothing but incite.

In fact, if you think it's really Apartheid then I challenge you to supply an actual definition of it from a respected source. My guess is you won't find anything that wouldn't apply to other western democracies. Meaning what Israel does is no worse than any other Democracy.

ETA:
India has > 18 million slaves. Where's BDS? It's a democracy funded heavily by the USA. There is no BDS because BDS is without question a racist hate movement.

[shira]

11. Yes they can, so there goes THAT argument. n/t

[Little Tich]

15. Yes, they can, but it takes a long time, and only about half of the applications are successful.

I've never heard of a Jewish person born in Jerusalem being denied Israeli citizenship.

Here's an article with more info:

Breaking Taboo, East Jerusalem Palestinians Seek Israeli Citizenship
Source: Haaretz, Aug 05, 2015
(snip)

Israeli officials are reluctant to confirm figures, but data obtained by the Jerusalem Institute for Israel Studies indicates a jump over the past decade, rising from 114 applications in 2003 to between 800 and 1,000 a year now, around half of which are successful. On top of that, hundreds have made inquiries before the formal application process begins.

Interior Ministry figures obtained by Reuters show there were 1,434 applications in 2012-13, of which 189 were approved, 1,061 are still being processed and 169 were rejected. The remainder are in limbo.

Read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.669643

[Little Tich]

17. So a political system where one ethnic group has no civil rights whatsoever,

and another has the full rights of a democratic country is not Apartheid? Just because some Palestinians have partial Israeli citizenship doesn't change the fact that there are almost 3 million Palestinians in the West Bank and East Jerusalem without civil rights.

Good luck trying to prove that these people have rights that are even remotely comparable to those of the (Jewish) Israelis living in the West Bank and East Jerusalem.

[shira]

18. Israeli Arabs are the same ethnicity as Palestinian Arabs.

Israeli Arabs by law have the same rights as Jews. They also live and/or work in E.Jerusalem and the W.Bank.

You lose, badly.

[Little Tich]

20. So your spurious claim that there are Israeli Arabs living as settlers and working in the

settlements would somehow prove that 3 million Palestinians without any civil rights actually do have civil rights?

Why don't you give an example of an Israeli Arab settler? I know that there are a few non-Jews renting apartments on privately owned land, which is possible due to a legal glitch, but I don't know of a single non-Jewish settler living on State lands, which is where almost all Jewish settlers live...

[shira]

22. There are Israeli Arabs living in E.Jerusalem who have become citizens...

These Israeli Arabs commute to work or college, serve in the IDF, or live in the W.Bank...

Leave or let live? Arabs move in to Jewish settlements
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4600657,00.html

High proportions of Arab residents living in religiously conservative settlements in East Jerusalem, attracted by cheaper rent, better services.

You're wrong once again. Yours is the spurious claim.

Show me where in Apartheid S.Africa some or many Blacks had the same rights as Whites. Whether in Israel or the territories, the 1.4 million Arabs (who are of the very same ethnicity, race and blood as Palestinians) have the same rights as Jews. Show me any other example of Apartheid where this is the case.

[Little Tich]

24. Mount Scopus, French Hill?

Seems to be privately owned land to me...

Anyway, there will be Apartheid as long as there are people living in the West Bank and East Jerusalem who live under military jurisdiction with no civil rights, while at the same time, Israelis living there have full civil rights.

[shira]

25. Weak sauce. Every Israeli Arab & Jew in EJ & the WB has equal rights to everything.

Those Israeli Arabs are the exact ethnicity of Palestinians there, proving any discrimination is based on citizenship only. And since Apartheid isn't based on citizenship, you have no case.

QED.

[King_David]

4. Any Irish company participating will lose investment from most

USA state pension plans - by law.

[aranthus]

12. So the Irish FM is a twit.

What do you want me to do about it? I'm not even Irish. It's not my fault the guy cant' think. It's not my fault that he talks out of his ass. The real question is why anyone would bother with someone who so obviously doesn't know what he's talking about. Except for the haters of course. They're going to love this.

[shira]

13. The BDS movement breaks nearly every single example of Antisemitism....

....as defined by the working definition just adopted by 31 states and the UN.

Not just 1 or 2 examples, but nearly all of them.

Which proves BDS is a hate movement.

[Little Tich]

16. According to that definition, most of my posts are "anti-Semitic" too...

The IHRA are a bunch of trolls.

[shira]

19. That's according to all liberal nations that have adopted the definition....

...including the US State Department for the past 6 years:

http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/fs/2010/122352.htm

[Fozzledick]

21. 1. Yes, we know.

2. Mouses who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

[Fozzledick]

14. What a 'legitimate political viewpoint' might look like.

http://offbeat.topix.com/slideshow/17224/slide52

(click on "<Prev" to see the picture without overwritten text.)

[Little Tich]

23. Or not. n/t