Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumMIFTAH denounces smear campaign against it
The disclaimer at the opening of the News and Analysis section clearly states that, The views represented in [News and Analysis] are solely those of their authors and do not necessarily reflect the views of MIFTAH, [font color = "red"]but rather fulfill its mandate for open dialogue. For the record, to avoid further misunderstanding, Al Zarus article has been taken down from MIFTAHs website.[/font]
MIFTAH has and always will promote the principles of democracy and a peaceful solution to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Articles published in its name on both its Arabic and English websites are proof of this philosophy. Neither MIFTAH nor Dr. Ashrawi has ever been associated with anti-Jewish or anti-Semitic campaigns due to their philosophy of promoting [font color = "red"]accurate and credible information[/font]. MIFTAH has always been focused on the promotion of the Palestinian narrative in the service of achieving a free, democratic Palestine, part of which is honoring freedom of speech....
cont'd...
http://www.miftah.org/Display.cfm?DocId=25950&CategoryID=2
No apologies - just an attack vs. Elder of Ziyon for calling them out on their gutter antisemitism. This "peace" organization believes publishing filth like a medieval blood libel is "open dialogue". They took it down to avoid "further misunderstanding", not because it was vulgar and written by a nasty anti-semite, who of course they don't denounce. They will neither condemn the article nor change their policies. Also, gotta love their promotion of "accurate and credible" information too. That's obviously how they still see the article, else they'd condemn it or call it offensive....
This response is worse than the article itself and shows their true, ugly colors.
jessie04
(1,528 posts)Sickening
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)That's a very strange claim.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Greta Berlin said the same.
Maan news too.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)By the logic displayed by Elder of Ziyon, Elad, Skinner, and EarlG hate Arabs, and DU as a whole, is an islamophobic right-wing organization, all because of your post. Yes you removed it, but again, by EoZ logic, that's just you trying to cover your tracks, being duplicitous and sneaky in a nefarious attempt to hide your own savage anti-Arab hatred, and trying to prevent criticism against your islamophobic hate-pit, DemocraticUnderground!
Of course, this would only be true if every post had to have approval before it was put onto the site, If the admins had to sift through everything and decide what to post and what not to post, then if they chose to let that garbage of yours through the filter, then someone at the top could be regarded as having some responsibility for what was put on the site. Even then there's allowances for oopses - sort of like how even though you knowingly posted that trash, we give you a benefit of the doubt that you truly didn't know the background.
DU does not work that way, and apparently neither does MIFTA's website. The only control the administrators have over what content appears seems to be keeping the gates as to who is allowed to submit content, rather than what that content is. Of course, they are capable of removing content after the fact, which is exactly what happened.
To take a post from this al-Zura dude, and try to use it to characterize MIFTA as a whole and Hanan Ashrawi personally as blood-libel-tossing antisemite creeps is a huge fucking stretch. But since that is what Elder of Ziyon is doing, the accusation of a smear attack is completely warranted.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Liberal Zionism at work again
delrem
(9,688 posts)Long enough at any rate to slog thru' 4 x 2-sentence paragraphs, taking about 1 minute. And another few seconds to chuckle. So since I read it for you, I'll judge it for you too - you got what they call "soundly refuted" in those academies that you've never set foot in.
But carry on, what you don't know and what you refuse to know can't possibly hurt you... can it?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)the ubiquitous "junior staff member."
http://www.miftah.org/Display.cfm?DocId=25956&CategoryID=2
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)A few times over, in fact.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)When your website publishes the blood libel, you can't credibly complain about a smear campaign. Just like an org publishing a tribute to Baruch Goldstein couldn't credibly answer criticism with cries of intolerance.
The MIFTAH web editors fucked up royally, and should have owned that fuck-up from the get-go.
It's not possible to win an argument over why the literal blood libel appeared as 'news and analysis' on your website.
And I'm pretty sure Dr. Ashrawi would agree.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Elder of Ziyon's target was not the article. EoZ's target was the entire organization, and in particular the woman at the head of it. EoZ was making a wholehearted attempt to use this singular piece, mistakenly posted and swiftly deleted, to damn and condemn a Palestinian NGO and Dr. Ashrawi. Elder of Ziyon did not applaud the removal of the offending piece, but rather tried to present the deletion of the offensive article as a show of duplicity for nefarious ends.
In other words, heads I win, tails you lose.
Had the deletion been paired with an apology, the apology would have been deemed "insufficient." or the apology itself would have been portrayed as yet more nefarious Arab duplicity.
The goal was not to expose the article and get rectification. The goal was to demonize the entire organization and the woman at its head. No response on MIFTAH's part would have changed this even slightly, only the precise words used to convey the same message - that MIFTAH is a bunch of sneaky Arabs out to hate Jews, and their "ringleader" Hanan Ashwari is simply the worst of the lot.
The article was swiftly deleted, the unwarranted smear attack rebuffed, and apology issued. I expect either total silence from EoZ on the subject, or the "insufficient, too late, sneaky!" angle I just outlined, an effort to continue the smear attack against an organization that EoZ and its like-minded compatriots keep trying to assure us does not exist.
shira
(30,109 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Last edited Thu Apr 4, 2013, 08:36 AM - Edit history (1)
On edit: If you won't answer me then I guess that EoZ is not your hero, and you had other motives in your OP than reporting a story.
Slander perhaps?
shira
(30,109 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Is EoZ your hero? Well?
On edit: I know it may be had for you to ferret out an answer, but please try.
shira
(30,109 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)On edit: It is so cute to watch you stomp your feet and make demands.
shira
(30,109 posts)Do you fear contradicting yourself, or admitting you were/are wrong? Would that embarass you?
And I also don't play the ad-hominem attack game that you guys are so good at. If you have problems with EoZ, attack his arguments rather than attacking the messenger.
I don't agree with his politics but his work is top notch. Then again, I don't agree with the politics of the anti-zionist left but when they tell it like it is, honestly and accurately with facts, I don't just dismiss it b/c it's coming from a source that I think sucks.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)But thank you for the admission of fondness for EoZ.
shira
(30,109 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Ask a real question next time, and leave the shrill nonsense at the door.
shira
(30,109 posts)I don't complain that they're not real questions.
Come on, what do you fear by engaging in a real 2-way debate?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)and especially delegitimize Palestinian or any NGO that would support Palestinians NGO's I think MIFTAH made a mistake and promptly corrected and apologized for it I also think that doesn't make a whit of difference
I also think that it speaks volumes that this type of smear tactic is the hallmark of the Prowhatever it is your pro just call it Peace Later campaign
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)That's nice for Shira. Would she ever use David Duke if he was right once in a while?
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)so be it, however it is strange on a progressive site such as this
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)crfediting the works of a satanist to justify their point.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)in fact Satan is used to justify most fundamentalist Christian POV's
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)"Hey that Satan may be a complete asshole, but he really stands up for pride in one's work, individual rights and killing the weak. I may not believe in his methods but he is spot on in other areas!"
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)one must always view the positive side of things
shira
(30,109 posts)...any wrongdoing at first?
It seems they feared their donors would abandon them and that's why they made a formal apology after first smearing EoZ for having the audacity to call them out on their gutter antisemitism.
But go on, keep covering for that filth...
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)except to copy it but do keep it up, you are indeed setting an example here
shira
(30,109 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)and also who the real target was, guess that part was a fail
PLO Official Hanan Ashrawis NGO Publishes Passover Blood Libel
http://www.democraticunderground.com/113437674
shira
(30,109 posts)...showing that after EoZ posted on it the article was taken down.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)I suspect they got called on their own hubris as is happening here
shira
(30,109 posts)Turns out MIFTAH also removed another post (supporting terror) days after the controversy first came up.
Due to EoZ of course....
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)I wold say that the validity of any RW hate site should be suspect. Also anybody that purports to cheer on such hate sites are also suspect.
shira
(30,109 posts)You're the last person to call someone else out for their hate.
It doesn't get much worse than peddling the medieval Passover blood libel and then attacking EoZ for reporting on it.
But go on....MIFTAH is of course the victim here in your opinion.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Perhaps you would like to show me and I/P where that post is.
If David Duke says something that you agree with would you be posting it here as well?
shira
(30,109 posts)...not your endorsement.
Keep up.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)have gotten the better of you.
MIFTAH made a retraction and apology.
I have never defended anti-Semitism let alone the gutter kind and never will. What I did write was a question on how you could use a source from a discredited and DU3 banned RW hate source as gospel.
So would you use David Duke, and cherry pick his words, if it suited you at an opportune moment?
To quote you directly.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=32095
shira
(30,109 posts)...rather than own up to their gutter antisemitism. Only after that, once they faced questions by their donors, did they apologize.
And they also quietly removed this post supporting terror only after EoZ reported on it....
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:h9kyfvJ2iakJ:www.miftah.org/Display.cfm%3FDocId%3D10709%26CategoryId%3D21+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Palestinian women have also participated in the resistance. As the conflict grew more intense and young men were recruited to carry out military operations against Israeli targets, several young women also decided to join the ranks of the resistance movement. In January 2002, 28-year-old nurse Wafa Idrees, detonated a bomb in Jerusalems Jaffa Street, killing one Israeli and injuring 150 others. She was also killed in the blast.
This marked the beginning of a string of Palestinian women dedicated to sacrificing their lives for the cause. Over the next two years, seven other women carried out similar operations, the most deadly of which was carried out by Hanadi Jaradat, a 29-year-old attorney from Jenin. Hanadi detonated explosives strapped to her body in a busy Haifa restaurant, killing 19 Israelis and injuring 50 others.
Just another "mistake"? Yeah, right....
You may as well be defending David Duke himself, as these articles are typical StormFront garbage.
Be proud of yourself!
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)They made a retraction-apology, and yet you seemingly still support right winger EoZ: Banned by DU2 and DU3.
Thanks for the article you posted to as a smoke screen. it was very informative. here is an excerpt that you missed for certain reasons.
On January 5, 2001 18-year-old Arij Al Jabali was bringing down laundry from her familys home in Hebron when she was shot and killed by bullets coming from the neighboring Beit Haggai Jewish settlement.
Women, along with children and the elderly, often fall victim to Israels aggressive military measures carried out ostensibly against Palestinian resistance activists. What Israel considers collateral damage is actually innocent Palestinians carrying out their daily routine when they are brutally cut down.
I guess that these murders of Palestinians don't rate very high on your scale of justice, or perhaps you missed them in order to cherry pick once again?
And we all know how much you love to cherry pick, Sira.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=32095
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)Would you have been for or against the Jewish state back in the 1930's to 1940's given what you know now?
And if not, what would be your solution?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Of course they're going to use that incident to smear. Which is why it's essential to not give them the ammunition.
There are times that call for pushing back, and then there are times that call for damage control.
shira
(30,109 posts)holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)... well-meaning, progressive antisemites.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)You get three guesses, the first two don't count.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)The views represented in are solely those of their authors and do not necessarily reflect the views of MIFTAH...
That's pretty clear.
Nice try, Shira.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)blood libel. There's analysis, and then there's eliminationist hate speech like the blood libel and holocaust denial.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)There have been posters on Du that have said vile shit, harassed others and have been removed.
Is Skinner responsible for what they write?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)I'm generally more sympathetic towards the Palestinians than the Israelis, but there are two memes no Palestinian activist group can get within 15 miles of--holocaust denial and the blood libel.
Miftah was guilty--under the most charitable version of events--of gross negligence.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)b ut if your comfortable agreeing with a smear campaign over an article that was removed anyway then fine
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)towards lobbying for peace and justice needs to filter out stuff from the Der Sturmer archives. If they have the same editorial policies as DU, that's irresponsible. DU is a message board, not an advocacy org.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)this was made very apparent in the first thread about this incident but from what you are telling me is that MIFTAH is really just a pretense for peace thank you do you hold all sides to this standard?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/113437674
the article was removed and MIFTAH has apologized
Apology
t has become clear to us after investigating this incident that the article was accidentally and incorrectly published by a junior staff member. The said staffer has been reprimanded and all our staff has been informed as to the disgusting and repulsive phenomena of blood libel or accusation, including its use against Jews. Dr. Hanan Ashrawi, as founder, has nothing to do with the day to day management at MIFTAH and was no way involved in this incident.
We express our sincerest regret for offense caused by the oversight that resulted in said publication. We are whole-heartedly committed to fighting racism, hatemongering, discrimination and persecution of any kind wherever it should exist, and especially in our own society.
http://www.miftah.org/Display.cfm?DocId=25956&CategoryId=2
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Seriously, if you're Palestinian advocates/activists, two no-exceptions rules:
1). No holocaust denial;
2). No blood libel
I have zero doubt she abhors this bigoted filth--which makes its publication on their website all the more egregious.
If an advocacy org's editorial policies and controls allow blood libel to get published, their editorial policies and controls are broken.
If I were her, I'd fire the people in charge.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)but apparently that's not enough for some here
shira
(30,109 posts)...than apologize immediately.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)some true colors too
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Strangely enough what you have written above (note underlined passages) validates MIFTAH in some ways. You can disagree with a source, as you claim and call them a source that sucks, but if they tell it like it is "honestly and accurately with facts"...sometimes you wouldn't dismiss it.
That's what you wrote.
So not to turn your words on you, but I feel compelled to. MIFTAH removed the offending article. I guess that it is a site that you believe "sucks", but that doesn't mean that they wouldn't tell it like it is, honestly and accurately with facts? Right?
Oh, and BTW, for a source that you admire, and will cherry pick from...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/113437674#post1
Elder of Ziyon was forbidden on DU2. No?
shira
(30,109 posts)....following me around on just about every thread like a little poodle looking for some attention and affection.
You got my attention, just not my affection.
If I throw you a treat will you go away?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)I simply pointed out that they had made a retraction, and apologized for the incident. I also pointed out that you mentioned EoZ, who is banned from DU3 as other RW hate sites are. It is curious that you would wish to associate with EoZ. Curious indeed.
As a child I remember a pair of brothers from the neighborhood who had a dog. It was a malnourished German Sheppard, and while the family apparently lived very well the dog was most certainly abused. For fun they would make that dog chase its tail until it was dizzy, and that was one of the kinder things that they did to it. As children we were horrified by these two brothers. They were not very bright, as you might imagine, and we all felt for this poor animal since we all had pets of our own. Since the father of the two boys was a police officer we felt that there was no recourse to report what we suspected to the dog catcher.
At first the German Sheppard seemed bright and intelligent as a pup, but as time went on meanness seems to creep into it: almost as if an anger was beaten in while any love inside of it dried up and died. I can understand how that might happen to an animal that feels love and is hurt outright, but tell me, Shira, how does that happen to a human? At what point does hatred so blind an individual to truth that they would use the hate of others to justify their actions in life?
On edit: I guess that I am a little confused with you Shira. First you say I didn't endorse MIFTA, and now you say I am?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=38735
Perhaps you wish to clarify which direction you wish to go in? My guess is that you wish to doge right, but I leave that up to you.
shira
(30,109 posts)Despite their initial reaction to being exposed (lashing out at EoZ rather than owning up to their rancid hate).
Does it even bother you that they also quietly removed another article - an ode to women terrorists:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:h9kyfvJ2iakJ:www.miftah.org/Display.cfm%3FDocId%3D10709%26CategoryId%3D21+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
It's still at UNISPAL as well...
http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/6B126A625F96D154852571F80071C8B1
See, you should be RUNNING AWAY from MIFTAH - and for that matter UNISPAL - rather than pretending all this is just a misunderstanding or mistake.
David Duke runs the same garbage at his site, every day. This isn't a little mistake by MIFTAH. But here you are pretending MIFTAH is the victim and attacking ME instead.
Have you no shame?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)If you tell me that I should be running away, then perhaps they have hit a nerve with you and they should be given a second look.
Now back to you use of the David Duke of Israel, EoZ. Do you have an infatuation with this Right Winger?
shira
(30,109 posts)1. They initially refused to apologize when they lashed out at the messenger instead (EoZ).
2. When they did apologize, it was in English only. Even though the article was written only in Arabic.
3. They quietly (without explanation) removed another article (pro-terror) raised by EoZ within mere hours of the blood-libel one.
----------
A filthy blood-libel AND an ode to suicide terrorists.
----------
And here you are giving them the benefit of the doubt, claiming they apologized and that's good enough. How shameful of you.
I'm not letting you off the hook for dropping that mask of yours.
You f-cked up, now didn't you?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)I've never used MIFTA for anything.
Nice swing and a miss, champ.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)and an article from 2006 entitled : Palestinian Women and the Intifada BTW what key is this ode in?
here are the opening paragraphs
By Joharah Baker for MIFTAH
July 05, 2006
Over the past six years since the start of the Aqsa Intifada on September 29, 2000 - all sectors of Palestinian society have suffered under the various measures put in place by the Israeli occupation throughout the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. These include Israeli army incursions into Palestinian cities, towns, villages and refugee camps, the Apartheid wall, checkpoints, military operations, killings and arrests.
However, as one marginalized sector of society, Palestinian women have bore the brunt of these measures. Thousands of women have endured the loss of their husbands, sons, daughters, their homes and land to the brutality of the occupation.
Walled in, walled out
The Apartheid wall, which, upon completion, will stretch along 645 kilometers and expropriate at least 37 percent of the West Bank, has severed families from many basic life necessities. Where the wall encircles whole communities, Palestinians are cut off from their agricultural land, from health and educational services only found in adjacent major cities and from each other when family members live on opposite sides of the barrier.
Many women, whose families live off the benefits of their land have found themselves with no source of livelihood after Israels wall has severed them from their land and crops. According to the Applied Research Institute, ARIJ, 90,000 people will be isolated by the western segregation zone and 42,000 by the eastern zone.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)14 hours ago
Dear Friends,
Comments, including constructive criticism, are welcome on this page. However, we will not tolerate hate language or slander. These comments will be removed. Thank you.
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9 people like this.
Sol Robinson I kinda feel like in fact you DO need to explain yourself further. Why was there no arabic language apology? Why when it was pointed out that you had in fact published antisemitic literature was your response to call the pointing out of said publishing a "smear campaign?" Why was it possible for this to get published in the first place? I would appreciate an answer.
Like · Reply · 9 · 2 hours ago
Jonathan Simon I believe what people would like to see is an Arabic-language apology for the blood libel along with an explanation for the Arabic audience about the history of the Passover blood libel and how it is a hateful lie. It would have to amount to a complet...See More
Like · Reply · 8 · 2 hours ago
Omri Schwarz A good way to do that would be not to carry anti-Jewish libel to begin with. And to say the same things in Arabic as in English.
Like · Reply · 7 · about an hour ago
Omri Schwarz Why was the apology only written in English?
Like · Reply · 7 · 2 hours ago
Arye L Ben Harav I believe that Miftah posted regarding Passover - saying that Jews drink Christian blood on that holiday. I believe that in light of the criticism you received that you took the article down and issued an apology - all in English-- but your Arabic page does not include the apology. Strange...... you seem to have one set of reporting that caters to English readers and an entirely different perspective, a less friendly one towards Jews, for your Arabic readers. Unfortunate ......
Like · Reply · 6 · about an hour ago
Gad Grunwald why was my comment removed ? Or are you making a point that MIFTAH stands for "active and in-depth dialogue, the free flow of information and ideas"
Like · Reply · 1 · about an hour ago · Edited
MIFTAH MIFTAH offered an answer to its readers. It was not an article published by the organization's writers and it was taken down when the mistake was realized.
Like · Reply · 2 hours ago
Sanne Maia peace & harmony..
Like · Reply · 3 hours ago
MIFTAH Once again, MIFTAH does not need to explain itself any further on this subject. Any further comments on this subject will be removed.
Like · Reply · 10 hours ago
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MIFTAH/112704028762146