German Hate Mail Comes From Surprisingly Well Educated Sources

[shira]

Over the course of a decade, the letters poured into the Central Council of Jews in Germany like a river.

“Is it possible that the excessive violence in Israel, including the murder of innocent children, corresponds to the long tradition of your people?” asked one.

“For the last two thousand years, you have been robbing land and killing people!” exclaimed another.

“You Israelis are a crowd showing contempt for humanity,” charged another, though its writer was addressing fellow Germans. “You drop cluster bombs above inhabited territory during the last days of war, and accuse people criticizing such actions of anti-Semitism. That is typical of you Jews!”

Many would view the stream of vitriol, sent to German Jewry’s central communal organization between 2002 and 2012, as little more than raw sewage. But Monika Schwarz-Friesel, a professor of linguistics at the Technical University of Berlin, saw it as raw data. Together with Jehuda Reinharz, the American historian and former president of Brandeis University, Schwarz-Friesel has recently published a study of these letters. And their findings reaffirm one of the enduring, if still surprising truths about anti-Semitism in Germany and elsewhere.

More than 60% of the hate mail came from well-educated Germans, including university professors, according to their study, “The Language of Hostility Towards Jews in the 21st Century,” released earlier this year. Only 3% came from right-wing extremists.

One of the research pair’s other main findings was that hatred for Israel has become the main vehicle for German anti-Semitism. More than 80% of the 14,000 emails focused on Israel as their central theme.

Schwarz-Friesel and Reinharz say they strove hard to distinguish emails that were critical of Israel — even those that expressed anger toward it — from those that were anti-Semitic.

“Only those letters were classified as anti-Semitic that clearly [saw] German Jews as non-Germans and collectively abused German Jews to be responsible for crimes in Israel!” she explained.

Zick was not surprised by the hate mail Schwarz-Friesel examined. “I get plenty too, because of my lectures against anti-Semitism and the studies of prejudice done by my institute.” He worries about deeply rooted anti-Semitism in the country that staged the Holocaust.

“I’m living in a country where 75 years after Kristallnacht every single Jewish institution is guarded by the police,” he said. “What does it mean that every synagogue, Jewish schools and kindergartens are always protected? It means there’s a threat.”

Read more: http://forward.com/articles/188764/german-hate-mail-comes-from-surprisingly-well-educ/?p=all#ixzz2n1KB4kKc

[azurnoir]

1. Despite claims to the contrary the author indeed shoehorned

criticism/'hatred' of Israel into antisemitism the first 2 talkbacks sum it up nicely

Since the Jewish machers have decided to criticism of Israel is these days anti-Semitism, the 60% number means little. Also, in every case like this, the most extreme examples are being taken out.

Why am I skeptical? Because Germany's Jewish population has increased by 20x since the fall of the Soviet Union, especially young Israelis.

This sounds more like left-wing professors attacking Israel. Are they misguided? Yes. Does some of this include anti-Semitism? Yes. Are they representative of the broader German public? Highly doubtful.

The same trends are seen in America. We've been told since we were small children: watch out for white Christian right-wing extremists. But who is it that is most hostile to us? In Europe, the vast majority of genuine anti-Semitic incidents are done by muslim immigrants. (Yet Jewish groups support the immigration policy bringing in these people).

In America, it's the left that has branded Israel an Apartheid state. The European academic left were just ahead of America on this issue, we're seeing the same thing on these shores. Yet we're told to fear white conservatives, especially Christian evangelicals. Really?

(Dennis Prager does this argument better than anyone).

At any rate. What this reflects is the standing of Israel in the world. While I'm sure some criticism of Israel is masked anti-Semitism, the tendency for some machers (bigshot yiddish) in the community to essentially brand all/most of it, means that these numbers are unreliable.

By the way!

There's been much hype about being Jewish on campus and how it is "hostile" and "unsafe". Well. The Israel Project did a survey on this issue last year. They found that the vast majority of Jews felt very safe on campus. Most of them did also feel that there was an anti-Israeli bent on campus, but this did not translate to physical intimidation, racial attacks or similar.

So what we're really seeing here is an attempt to pathologize criticism of Israel into anti-Semitism. This tactic has been tried and tested. The data from Jewish students don't match it.

And then there's Israel itself - which has doubled the amount of settlers in the past decade and seen attacks rise within the green line on ethnic minorities.

Will Monika speak about this too, or doesn't it interest her?
I'm guessing: it doesn't interest her, because the victim

Read more: http://forward.com/articles/188764/german-hate-mail-comes-from-surprisingly-well-educ/?p=all#ixzz2n1KLlNKL

italics my addition

[shira]

2. In response to that...

You didn't, um, read the article, huh? "“Only those letters were classified as anti-Semitic that clearly (saw) German Jews as non-Germans and collectively abused German Jews to be responsible for crimes in Israel!” she explained."

Read more: http://forward.com/articles/188764/german-hate-mail-comes-from-surprisingly-well-educ/?p=all#ixzz2n1M84UJm

[azurnoir]

3. lol it was quite obvious that the poster indeed did read the article

but such a disclaimer is what one would expect when one can not deny the truth

[shira]

4. I expect as much from you. Look at the quotes at the beginning of the article....

“Is it possible that the excessive violence in Israel, including the murder of innocent children, corresponds to the long tradition of your people?” asked one.

“For the last two thousand years, you have been robbing land and killing people!” exclaimed another.

“You Israelis are a crowd showing contempt for humanity,” charged another, though its writer was addressing fellow Germans. “You drop cluster bombs above inhabited territory during the last days of war, and accuse people criticizing such actions of anti-Semitism. That is typical of you Jews!”

This is what they used.

I'm fairly certain you don't see anything wrong with these quotes.

[azurnoir]

5. well we know your defination of antisemitism and I would appreciate a reply as you avoided it before

shira (19,978 posts)
77. Although it shouldn't be antisemitic to oppose settlements in occupied territory....

Last edited Mon Dec 9, 2013, 05:50 AM - Edit history (4)
...what the EU is doing is essentially antisemitic, as they directly fund settlements and other illegal projects in occupied territory elsewhere NOW, in both Cyprus and Morocco:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113447933

In other words, let's have just one standard for all, not one standard for the Jews and another different standard for the rest of the world. Go on and oppose the settlements for all the right reasons....but don't be a hypocrite with double-standards or else it looks awfully rotten.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=53248

by those standards you must consider the current US administration to be antisemitic as they induced Israel to negotiate its West Bank holdings and criticized Israels building on those holdings without doing the same where Cyprus or Morocco are concerned

[shira]

6. The quotes at the beginning of the OP from the Forward....bigoted or not? Yes/No?

I replied to your nonsense in the other thread, BTW.

Now how about an answer to my question? Here they are:

“Is it possible that the excessive violence in Israel, including the murder of innocent children, corresponds to the long tradition of your people?” asked one.

“For the last two thousand years, you have been robbing land and killing people!” exclaimed another.

“You Israelis are a crowd showing contempt for humanity,” charged another, though its writer was addressing fellow Germans. “You drop cluster bombs above inhabited territory during the last days of war, and accuse people criticizing such actions of anti-Semitism. That is typical of you Jews!”

[azurnoir]

7. the first one asked a question the second was undirected

and the 3rd did what you frequently do, equate Jews and Israel as the same-wrong and antisemtic in my book no matter who does it, I see you have different standards though

[shira]

9. You didn't answer. I'm referring to the 3 quotes at the beginning of the article...

“Is it possible that the excessive violence in Israel, including the murder of innocent children, corresponds to the long tradition of your people?” asked one.

“For the last two thousand years, you have been robbing land and killing people!” exclaimed another.

“You Israelis are a crowd showing contempt for humanity,” charged another, though its writer was addressing fellow Germans. “You drop cluster bombs above inhabited territory during the last days of war, and accuse people criticizing such actions of anti-Semitism. That is typical of you Jews!”

These are the types of quotes they used to determine what was antisemitic.

Do you not see a problem with them?

[azurnoir]

15. I just answered in my previous comment

the 1rst is a question which could be answered yes or no, properly it should be answered no

“Is it possible that the excessive violence in Israel, including the murder of innocent children, corresponds to the long tradition of your people?” asked one.

the second is undirected who exactly? Jews Israeli's ????????

“For the last two thousand years, you have been robbing land and killing people!” exclaimed another.

the 3rd is priceless as it does what you seem to do equate Jews and Israel as being one and the same I'll gladly provide examples going back a could of years if you wish, in any event it wrong inaccurate and antisemitic to do this, one sides extremists justifies and supports the others

“You Israelis are a crowd showing contempt for humanity,” charged another, though its writer was addressing fellow Germans. “You drop cluster bombs above inhabited territory during the last days of war, and accuse people criticizing such actions of anti-Semitism. That is typical of you Jews!”

[shira]

16. Good on the first. The second was directed at German Jews. Did u read the OP?

And like I wrote previously, I'm amused at the turnspeak. How precisely, be specific, have I been antisemitic? This should be fun.

[azurnoir]

18. equating Israel to Jews in general is antisemitic IMO

as it infers that all Jew responsible for Israel's actions, as I said one group justifies and supports the other

[shira]

19. You said you'd supply examples of my antisemitism. Please feel free... n/t

[shira]

14. Wait - I see you answered. You do believe those 3 quotes were antisemitic.

Well okay then....that's what they used for examples of antisemitism in the German study. I don't see why you have a problem with that.

I love your accusation of turnspeak. How exactly am I antisemitic? Be clear.

[Jefferson23]

8. lol@ one standard for all.

rinse repeat, anti-semitism...wear it it out and dilute it, she becomes the boy who cried wolf.

[shira]

10. You don't even acknowledge the most obvious antisemitism, like this:

From the article:

“Is it possible that the excessive violence in Israel, including the murder of innocent children, corresponds to the long tradition of your people?” asked one.

“For the last two thousand years, you have been robbing land and killing people!” exclaimed another.

“You Israelis are a crowd showing contempt for humanity,” charged another, though its writer was addressing fellow Germans. “You drop cluster bombs above inhabited territory during the last days of war, and accuse people criticizing such actions of anti-Semitism. That is typical of you Jews!”

You don't have a problem with the above b/c that's basically what you believe.

Am I right?

[Jefferson23]

11. Address someone else who you imagine has any respect for your opinions. n/t

[shira]

12. I'll quote MLK for you...

“When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism.”

He considered you a bigot.

[Jefferson23]

13. LOL, keep crying wolf. n/t

[shira]

17. Do u think MLK was crying wolf against antizionists who he claimed were antisemites? n/t

[azurnoir]

20. I think that statement was made in 1964 things were a bit different then

or do you believe that MLK would support Israel's actions today?

[Jefferson23]

21. Don't flatter yourself, and it is disgusting that you attempt, although in vein,

to use MLK...wolf crier.

[shira]

22. You've got it backwards, friend. MLK thought you were disgusting....

..for attacking zionists. He saw through that shit.

[azurnoir]

23. got news MLK has been dead for 45 years the quote is from 50 years ago

do you believe that MLK would approve of Israel's actions today in the West Bank and Gaza?

[Jefferson23]

24. Yea, you and MLK..you're all set. lol

Looks like you're planning on going out on a bang, shira.