Do Palestinians in Gaza have the Right to Defend themselves against Israeli Aggression?

[representativepress]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Lithos (a host of the Israel/Palestine group).

SEE VIDEO: Do Palestinians in Gaza have the Right to Defend themselves against Israeli Aggression?
Why are we expected to allow Israel to continually steal more land and oppress, brutalize and murder civilians? Why is Israel allowed to come in and occupy the West Bank and threaten the lives and health and well-being of Palestinians? Why are we expected to allow Israel to continue a siege against Gaza?

Why are we expected to stand by while Israel attacks Palestinians? Why is Israel allowed to terrorize innocent civilians in the West Bank and Gaza?

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"Settlement activity continues to make the potential peace map more difficult … On this, I should also be clear of the United States’ longstanding position: we consider settlements illegitimate and an impediment to progress on peace negotiations." - White House Coordinator Philip Gordon

"How will Israel remain democratic and Jewish if it attempts to govern the millions of Palestinian Arabs who live in the West Bank?  How will it have peace if it is unwilling to delineate a border, end the occupations and allow for Palestinian sovereignty, security, and dignity?  How will we prevent other states from isolating Israel or supporting Palestinian efforts in international bodies if Israel is not seen as committed to peace?" - White House Coordinator Philip Gordon http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/07/08/remarks-prepared-white-house-coordinator-middle-east-north-africa-and-gu

[hack89]

1. Israel was not bombing Gaza before the rocket attacks started

when the rockets stop then the Israeli attacks will stop. Not complicated.

[redgreenandblue]

8. Actually, this time there is no question that Israel started it.

After the murder of three teenagers, instead of investigating the crime and bringing the responsible parties to justice, Israel simply decided that all Palestinians are to blame and started raiding home after home. After that they were met with justified resistance.

All of this is common knowledge. The question thus is what your agenda is in denying it. I wonder whether you are being untruthful on purpose or whether you simply don't know better.

[hack89]

9. Israel identified the killers two days before the first rocket attacks from Gaza

and four days before the bodies of the teens were found. Amer Abu Aysha and Marwan Kawasme - who just happen to be members of Hamas.

They were investigating.

[azurnoir]

21. and Israel has presented what evidence of this accusation?

because ya know without evidence there is no certainty. Hamas has denied responsibility to this day and really Hamas is not exactly shy about admitting to its deeds no matter how abominable

[shaayecanaan]

25. The Jewish ultranationalists who murdered the Arab teen

are linked to Kahanist organisations, some of which have representation in the Knesset.

Would the Palestinians be justified in launching air strikes on Kiryat Arba in response? If its good for the goose...

[hack89]

26. Gaza is not being bombed because of the teenagers

It is being bombed because of the rocket attacks. As to why Hamas decided this was a good time to launch rockets I have no idea. Israel is fortunate their enemies are stupid.

[shaayecanaan]

27. Teens got murdered

ISIS claimed responsibility. Israel ignored ISIS and said Hamas was responsible. Hamas said no we're not. Israel started raids in the West Bank anyway, and jailing Hamas members. Six Palestinians were killed. Hamas started rocket fire.

So now you know.

[King_David]

29. Rocket attacks started before, your timelines wrong,

Just so you knows .

[shaayecanaan]

30. First hamas rockets were fired on 8 july

Teens were kidnapped in June.

[hack89]

32. So the rockets are retribution not self defense

Hamas truly is stupid.

[Fred Sanders]

2. What Israeli aggression? It is only 200 Palestinians killed so for, 1 Israeli.

[PDJane]

3. Under international law, Palestine is on the side of the angels.

Israel is not living up to her responsibilities, and the Israeli wall was condemned as being illegal as well...since it encloses the Palestinian water table. All the settlements are illegal as well; the only thing that saves Israel from universal condemnation is the support of the U.S.

[4Q2u2]

10. But Hamas is

They are living up to their so-called disavowed Charter.

If I were Jewish and living in Israel I would very skittish and want long term solid concrete that someone who once stated to destroy all that I am and know has changed.


"The Final Solution" has made them very wary and hardened. Not to mention 1948/1967/1973/1987/2000/2006 and those are just the major operations.





http://www.thejerusalemfund.org/www.thejerusalemfund.org/carryover/documents/charter.html?chocaid=397

[PDJane]

13. That's an excuse.

The history of the final solution should make them very wary of doing the same to another people, and that is exactly what they are doing in Palestine.

[4Q2u2]

14. A Pretty Good One

Nowhere does it state that Israeli government or the people deem Palestinians as lower life forms and are dedicated to eradicating them.
It does so in the Hamas charter.

[PDJane]

16. That's because the Palestinians understand the 'facts on the ground.'

Israel is determined to whitewash their actions.

[4Q2u2]

17. Non Answer

I state facts to you about the Hamas Charter and you give onions.
Got it. Israel Bad Hamas Good.
Easy Day.

[elleng]

4. Palestinian loss of land to the present:

https://www.facebook.com/TheWarYouDontSee/photos/a.434890949865256.94132.164138183607202/735500663137615/?type=1&theater

The War you don't see: https://www.facebook.com/TheWarYouDontSee?fref=photo

[shira]

5. Hamas rockets & suicide bombers R not self-defense. n/t

[Fozzledick]

6. Could any excuse for Hamas' terrorism be more insane?

I doubt it, but you may yet prove me wrong.

[msongs]

7. Joshua and the battle of Jericho - nothing new about Israeli conduct nt

[geek tragedy]

11. They have zero right to indiscriminately lob missiles into Israel.

That's not self-defense, that's terrorism.

They do have the right to shoot at each and every IDF member that sets foot inside Gaza and the West Bank.

[sabbat hunter]

18. They do also have the right

to attack military targets, as Israel is doing to them in Gaza.

They do not have the right to attack purely civilian targets, which is Hamas's goal.

[COLGATE4]

12. My God - I haven't heard the "Have you stopped

beating your wife?" line since Law School.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

15. Sure they do. All Palestinians have

the right to defend themselves when they are shot at by IDF snipers, bulldozers, land grabs, marauding settlers and two sets of laws that aim to discriminate and disenfranchised their right to exist in their homeland.

They do not have the right to attack civilian targets as the IDF does, indefinately detain civilians without trial like Israel dose, use two sets if laws for punishment as Israel does, harass the civilian population as the IDF does, take land that does not belong to them like israeli settlers do with the blessing if the Knesset, and they certainly di not have the right to bomb population centers and say its the other guys fault...like Israel does.

[sabbat hunter]

20. except that

Israel is targeting military sites that are embedded within civilian areas, quite deliberately by Hamas.

Hamas on the other hand is attacking targets that are purely civilian.

Hamas is not attacking the IDF, the military bulldozers, and other legitimate targets.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

22. That's the rub. Gaza is pretty much a civilian site, and Israel is knowingly targeting it inasmuch

that Hamas is knowingly using it.

Perhaps Israel needs to go to the UN and have them handle it. And please, don't trash talk the UN in this.

Israel needs to step back. I would be happy if Hamas was defanged. I would also be happy if Israel was removed from the West Bank and was forced to stop treating Gaza like a prison.

[sabbat hunter]

24. The only way to de-fang

Hamas is to take out their ability to strike.

The UN would have to do the same thing, find the launch sites and attack them.

Even if Israel withdrew from the entire west bank (except for the old city) Hamas, IJ, etc would continue to attack Israel as it their stated goals to destroy israel and have a Palestine from the river to the sea.

[King_David]

19. There's no need to defend themselves,

Just stop the rockets and bombing stops.

Hamas rejected a cease fire , bombing would of stopped. Israel accepted it.

[shaayecanaan]

28. No

Hamas' actions are quite stupid, and a waste of everyone's time.

I am reminded of Winston Churchill and General de Gaulle after they left a conference with the defeated Germans following the end of the Second World War. Churchill thought de Galle was being too hard on the Germans, and asked him why he wasn't being more generous. De Gaulle replied "I am too weak to be magnanimous".

Compare Hamas' lack of discretion with the restraint shown by Hezbollah. Hezbollah has a fair bit of military kit now, enough to be worried about losing it in the event of war. They also gave Israel quite a blood nose the last time they fought, and the pride they took in doing so means that they have a legacy to defend as well.

People have said of the 1973 war (which Israel ultimately won, but in which Egypt definitely had the early momentum) that it sufficiently restored Egyptian pride that peace could take place between the two countries - the fact that it gave Israel a hell of a scare helped as well.

[Lithos]

33. Locking - The provenance of this video is lacking

Lithos