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Wed Jul 23, 2014, 08:28 AM

The Federal Government

[link:http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/18/some-of-israel-s-top-defenders-say-it-s-time-to-end-u-s-aid.html|

pouring US tax money into Israel allows this country to continue its inhuman purging of Palestinians, destroying the traditional Palestinian lands, and to continue the slaughter currently taking place. From my dictionary, a brief explanation of why Palestinians deserve their homeland, stolen at the end of WWII.

"In biblical times Palestine comprised the kingdoms of Israel and Judah. The land was controlled at various times by the Egyptian, Assyrian, Persian, and Roman empires before being conquered by the Arabs in ad 634. It was part of the Ottoman Empire from 1516 to 1918. The name Palestine was used as the official political title for the land west of the Jordan mandated to Britain in 1920; in 1948, the state of Israel was established in what was traditionally Palestine, but the name continued to be used in the context of the struggle for territory and political rights of displaced Palestinian Arabs. In 1993, an agreement was signed between Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization giving some autonomy to the Gaza Strip and the West Bank and setting up the Palestine National Authority and a police force, but this proved unsuccessful in bringing the conflict to a resolution."

Will the US government continue to pour its tax money into a country that doesn't need it? Could the money better be used to solve the many problems facing America? Should the current administration continue to send armaments to Israelis whose primary motivation is to destroy the Palestinians? How does this war help the US in the middle east?

I have questions, does anyone have answers?


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Arrow 12 replies Author Time Post
Reply The Federal Government (Original post)
Thespian2 Jul 2014 OP
FBaggins Jul 2014 #1
Thespian2 Jul 2014 #3
sabbat hunter Jul 2014 #2
Thespian2 Jul 2014 #4
sabbat hunter Jul 2014 #5
Thespian2 Jul 2014 #6
sabbat hunter Jul 2014 #7
azurnoir Jul 2014 #8
sabbat hunter Jul 2014 #10
Thespian2 Jul 2014 #9
sabbat hunter Jul 2014 #11
aranthus Jul 2014 #12

Response to Thespian2 (Original post)

Wed Jul 23, 2014, 09:11 AM

1. I'd be happy to take a swing at answers... if you'll try one first

You mention "traditional Palestinian lands". What, in your opinion, are the traditionally jewish/israeli lands?

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Response to FBaggins (Reply #1)

Wed Jul 23, 2014, 08:43 PM

3. Simple answer

Israel did not exist before it was created after WWII.

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Response to Thespian2 (Original post)

Wed Jul 23, 2014, 09:24 AM

2. so you believe that

There should be no Israel, only a Palestine?

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Response to sabbat hunter (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 23, 2014, 08:45 PM

4. Did I say that?

Israel was given a state taken from Palestinian lands. Why did they then try to take all the land the US would let them?

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Response to Thespian2 (Reply #4)

Wed Jul 23, 2014, 09:01 PM

5. you seem to be saying that

you want a one state solution, only Palestine.

Remember, there has never been a country called Palestine to take lands from. It was an artificial construct carved out of the Ottoman Empire. Yes there are Palestinian people, just like there are Kurds. But that does not mean all the land they live in automatically is a Kurdistan (or whatever they would want to call it).

If you go by where people live to give them a nation, then a Palestine would include Jordan, as well as the WB and Gaza, since people of Palestinian descent are the majority there as well.

But that is not how things work.

Palestine should consist of Gaza, most of the WB (with minor adjustments along the green line, but would give them 99% of the WB in a continuous state) with the exception of the old city of Jerusalem.

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Response to sabbat hunter (Reply #5)

Thu Jul 24, 2014, 08:29 PM

6. Read More

I never said Israel should not be a state. I said they should stop killing Palestinians, with America's help of course.

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Response to Thespian2 (Reply #6)

Thu Jul 24, 2014, 08:53 PM

7. you said the following

Israel was given a state taken from Palestinian lands


and

Israel did not exist before it was created after WWII.


Palestine never has existed as an independent country. It was an artificial construct created out of the ruins of the ottoman empire, as a mandate for a Jewish homeland (league of nations, balfour declaration). However, I do believe that there should be a Palestine on most of the WB and Gaza (basically excluding the old city of Jerusalem).


There was no Palestinian lands to take from at the time. No Palestine existed.

By saying that the lands were stolen after WW2 you are inferring that israel has no right to exist, since the lands were 'stolen'

There are Kurds, but there is no Kurdistan. You can have a group of people that call themselves X without a nation. So a Palestine as an independent nation need not have existed to create a Palestine (same for an Israel)


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Response to sabbat hunter (Reply #7)

Thu Jul 24, 2014, 09:00 PM

8. actually it was all Palestine including what is now Jordan

also known as Trans-Jordan at the time, just a historical point nothing more

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #8)

Thu Jul 24, 2014, 09:41 PM

10. Well transjordan

was split off from the province of syria (along with the Palestine mandate) from the old ottoman empire, to reward the Hashamite rulers that were imported in from Saudi Arabia.

This is part of the reason why some in syria, believe in a 'greater syria' that encompasses Syria, Israel, WB, Gaza, Lebanon, Jordan.

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Response to sabbat hunter (Reply #7)

Thu Jul 24, 2014, 09:24 PM

9. Read some more

Mother Jones
How America Finances the Destruction in Gaza—and the Cleanup
The US-subsidized Israeli military wreaks devastation, and a US-funded UN agency deals with the aftermath.
By David Corn | Wed Jul. 23, 2014 6:00 AM EDT

Social Title:
How America finances the destruction in Gaza—and the humanitarian response
On Monday, Israeli warplanes fired 182 missiles into Gaza, Israeli ships launched 146 shells into the territory, and Israeli tanks shot 721 shells, with all these attacks striking 66 structures and killing 107 Palestinians (including 35 children), while Hamas launched 101 rockets toward Israel, and 13 Israeli soldiers were killed. That day, the State Department announced [1] that the United States would be providing $47 million "to help address the humanitarian situation in Gaza." A third of these funds would go to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East [2](UNRWA), which is providing food, water, and shelter to tens of thousands of war-affected Palestinians in Gaza. So once again, US taxpayers are in an absurd place: They are partly paying for the Israeli military action in Gaza and funding the cleanup.

Each year, the United States gives Israel about $3.1 billion in military assistance, a commitment that stems from the 1978 Camp David accord that led to peace between Israel and Egypt. Those billions are roughly divided into two funding streams. About $800 million underwrites Israeli manufacturing of weaponry and military products. The rest finances what is essentially a gift card that the Israeli military uses to procure arms and military equipment from US military contractors. It can be safely assumed, says a US expert on aid to Israel, that all units of the Israel Defense Forces benefit from US assistance—and this obviously includes those units fighting in Gaza. So to a certain degree, the destruction in Gaza does have a made-in-the-USA stamp.

But at the same time, the US government is financing efforts to deal with the awful consequences of Israeli attacks. The UNWRA noted in a July 21 situation report [3] that it is operating 67 shelters that are harboring more than 84,000 Palestinians. It is distributing food (in one day, nearly 55,000 tins of tuna and 16,000 loaves of bread), water, baby hygiene kits, blankets, and mattresses to these shelters. It is removing solid waste. It is running up to 21 health clinics, as security permits. The report notes that UNWRA's shelters are overwhelmed with huge numbers of displaced Palestinians, adding: "The continuing conflict is having an impact on delivery of basic services. Despite a strong commitment from UNRWA sanitation staff, the Agency is struggling to maintain solid waste management operations in the context of ongoing escalations in violence and high numbers of [displaced persons] in shelters. This presents a potential serious public health risk." The report also says the UNRWA is trying to educate children to leave unexploded ordnance alone.

The UNRWA, not surprisingly, reflects the policy perspective of the UN and UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-Moon. Its website notes [3] that Ban recently called the killing of civilians in Gaza an "atrocious action." The site also describes the current crisis this way: "This is the third war in five and a half years endured by the people of Gaza. As with previous conflicts, there is nowhere for women, men, and children to escape to. The strip is densely populated and the seven-year Israeli-imposed blockade means that people's movement to and from Gaza remains virtually banned." Last week, the UNRWA condemned [4] unidentified parties that had placed 20 rockets in one of its facilities, a vacant school.

According to the UNRWA, 75 of its facilities in Gaza, including schools and warehouses, have been damaged in the fighting. Presumably, some of the $15 million being sent to the agency by the United States—which covers a quarter of an emergency appeal for $60 million issued by the UNRWA—will be used to repair or replace UNRWA installations destroyed by the US-funded Israeli military.

The new package of US assistance includes $3.5 million in funding for Mercy Corps, Catholic Relief Services, and other nongovernmental organizations. According to the State Department, Mercy Corps will use some of this money to supply non-food items to displaced Palestinians and extend a short-term employment program for 3,000 people in Gaza and a "psycho-social support program" assisting about 2000 families. Catholic Relief Services will provide medical supplies and fuel for medical facilities.

The United States, according to the State Department, is UNRWA's largest donor, and has provided over $265 million to the agency this year to help Palestinian refugees in Gaza and other regions of the Middle East, including $9 million for the construction of new schools and distribution centers in Gaza. A US taxpayer might wonder if in recent days any of those schools—or students attending them—have been struck by an Israeli missile subsidized by the United States.

Source URL: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/07/israel-gaza-united-states-assistance-unrwa

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Response to Thespian2 (Reply #9)

Thu Jul 24, 2014, 09:42 PM

11. what does that

have to do with my post?

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Response to Thespian2 (Reply #6)

Fri Jul 25, 2014, 03:02 AM

12. But it all comes back to whether Israel should be a state or not.

Remember that the only Palestinians firing rockets at Israel and sending terrorists through tunnels at Israel are Hamas and Islamic Jihad. These groups aren't attacking Israel merely because of the Occupation or settlements. They want Israel gone. If it was simply a case of the Palestinians not wanting the Occupation; if they were prepared to let Israel live in peace; then there wouldn't be an Occupation in the first place.

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