Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumThe Case Against William Schabas
The Jewish Week
Powerful new evidence has surfaced mandating disqualification of Professor William Schabas as the chair of the UN commission investigating alleged Israeli war crimes during the recent Gaza conflict.
In a written petition to have Schabas recused filed on Sept. 4, UN Watch, a Geneva-based NGO, showcased a July 17 BBC interview in which Schabas presumed Israel guilty. Although at the time of that interview there had been no ground offensive, Schabas declared prima facie there is evidence of disproportionality by Israel sufficient to declare the air strikes unjustified because there are a huge number of civilian casualties on one side and virtually no civilian casualties on the other. The BBC interview is damning evidence sufficiently questioning Schabas impartiality under a longstanding due process principle that judges or investigators should be, and should be seen to be, free of commitment to a preconceived outcome.
Also on Sept. 4, Schabas championed his commissions adjudicatory relevance in a CNN interview, stating: the International Criminal Court is sitting in the wings, and the commission will likely provide materials that would go to the prosecutor of the ICC and so thats a pretty big stick if we come to the conclusion that there were war crimes. The Palestinians recently disclosed plans to join the ICC, which might be considered encouraging news to Schabas, who has repeatedly promoted prosecuting Palestinian claims against Israel at the ICC. Schabas admission to CNN that his commission aims to assist any ICC prosecution lends greater significance to a 2012 address he delivered to the Russell Tribunal, a London-based pro-Palestinian NGO that even Judge Richard Goldstone [the author of a controversial UN report on Israeli actions during the last Gaza war] discredited as one sided. Schabas quipped in that speech: My favorite would be [Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin] Netanyahu within the dock of the International Criminal Court.
The BBC and CNN interviews confirm that Schabas should be disqualified either for actual bias or the appearance of bias. As UN Watch argues, the BBC interview demonstrates commitment to a preconceived outcome of Israeli guilt for war crimes that constitutes an overt case of actual bias on the very question that the [UN commission] members are meant to impartially assess. These circumstances distinguish Schabas case from that of Nabil Elaraby, current head of the Arab League, who was part of the 2004 judicial panel at the International Court of Justice (ICJ) that issued an advisory opinion on Legal Consequences of the Construction of a Wall in the Occupied Territory. The ICJ refused to disqualify Elaraby notwithstanding anti-Israel sentiments he expressed in a newspaper interview prior to joining the Court. The ICJ reasoned that Elaraby expressed no opinion on the question put in the present case during that interview. In stark contrast, Schabas opinion of prima facie guilt by Israel relates directly to the very issues and events his commission is supposed to assess.
http://www.thejewishweek.com/editorial-opinion/opinion/case-against-william-schabas
intaglio
(8,170 posts)The previous effort by Israel to harm the Palestinians and that disqualifies him ... how?
King_David
(14,851 posts)He can prosecute but not judge.
Israel is busy investigating it's own culpability and we await that report and investigation , this report unlike the UNHRC / Schabas report has not reached any conclusions yet and also unlike the Schabas report has not been written yet.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)Hamas ?
Well terrorists don't do that.
intaglio
(8,170 posts)Where no person was ever prosecuted and only lame duck politicians resigned.
What about B'Tselem and Yesh Din issuing a joint statement that states
The existing apparatus is incapable of investigating policy issues or breaches of law by senior ranking military officials, and fails to promote accountability among those responsible. The figures show that the Israeli authorities are unwilling to investigate human rights violations committed by security forces against Palestinians. The failure of the Government of Israel to implement the Turkel Commissions recommendations, more than a year and a half after their publication, only reinforces this conclusion.
Full text at this link
King_David
(14,851 posts)May as well release the report now.
And Sabra and Shatilla , what happened to the actual perpetrators , you know the Christian Phalanges who committed the massacre.
It's a joke .
intaglio
(8,170 posts)What sort of punishment did they suffer?
Shaktimaan
(5,397 posts)The kahaan report was widely praised for it's accuracy and thoroughness. Criticizing the response to the report is a separate issue. It's not the job of either the UN's or Israel's investigations to punish those deemed at fault.
intaglio
(8,170 posts)Where Ariel Sharon was eventually forced, not by Kahan but by public outrage, to resign as Defence minister, although he stayed on the Cabinet and went on to become Prime Minister; whereas IDF Chief of Staff Eitan went completely unpunished. This was despite Kahan finding that Sharon and Eitan met with the leaders of the Phalangist militias to incite the massacres.
shira
(30,109 posts)....accountable for what they did, over 30 years later.
They were the ones DIRECTLY resposible for all the killing, after all.
Can you even name the LEADER of the Phalangists, and what he did AFTER the massacre....without looking it up on google?
Right. I didn't think so.
intaglio
(8,170 posts)I'm only surprised that you did not bring up the equally reprehensible attacks on the Palestinians by Muslim militias. You cannot refute the facts so you try to turn the conversation onto another course. The discussion was about the culpability and response of the Israeli's to the massacres. Neither Sharon nor Eitan nor the agents of Israel who performed the physical acts at these refugee camps received any punishment from the Israeli government.
Israeli
(4,148 posts)We'd sing and dance forever and a day
We'd live the life we choose
We'd fight and never lose
Those were the days, oh yes those were the days.
" not by Kahan but by public outrage "
Peace Now again came to prominence following Israel's 1982 Invasion of Lebanon, and in particular the massacre of Palestinian refugees by Christian Lebanese Phalangists at the Israeli controlled Sabra and the Shatila refugee camp. On 25 September 1982 Peace Now held a mass protest in Tel Aviv on 25 September 1982 in order to pressure the government to establish a national inquiry commission to investigate the massacres, as well as calling for the resignation of the Defence Minister Ariel Sharon.[3] Peace Now's 1982 demonstration was attended by 400,000 people, approximately 10% of Israel's population at the time.[11]
Subsequently the Israeli government established the Kahan Commission on 28 September 1982. Four months later the commission found Israel to be indirectly responsible for the massacres, and recommended Ariel Sharon's resignation.
Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin at first refused to adopt the Kahan Commission's recommendations. Consequently Peace Now decided to hold a demonstration on 10 February 1983 that marched from Zion Square towards the Prime Minister's residence in Jerusalem in order to pressure the government to do so.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_Now
Those were also the days we met facism face on for the first time :
Emil Grunzweig
In the wake of the Sabra and Shatila massacre, Peace Now led a march from Zion Square and moved towards the Prime Ministers' Office in Jerusalem on 10 February 1983. During the march Peace Now demonstrators encountered a group of right-wing activists. In the ensuing confrontation, Yona Avrushmi tossed a hand-grenade into the crowd, killing Emil Grunzweig, a prominent Peace Now activist, and injuring several others.[12][13][14]
Yona Avrushmi was duly arrested, convicted of murder and given a mandatory life sentence, which was commuted to 27 years by President Ezer Weizman in 1995. Avrushmi was released on 26 January 2011.[15]
As a result of mounting public pressure on Menachem Begin to adopt the Kahan Commission's recommendations, largely due to popular outrage caused by Grunzweig's murder, Ariel Sharon agreed to step down as Defence Minister. However, he remained in the government as a minister without portfolio.[16]
Source : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_Now
intaglio
(8,170 posts)... to some of the people who post in this forum.
Thanks for the reminder.
Israeli
(4,148 posts)there is two Israels ....
One is the facist Right wing ....the other you can learn about here :
THE OTHER ISRAEL ....http://www.israelipalestinianpeace.org/issues/97toi.htm#Hope
intaglio
(8,170 posts)The problem is that the current rulers of Israel are the right wingers
King_David
(14,851 posts)From the inquiry was no good-- to the inquiry was toothless but good-- to the people ......
It's hilarious .
Does the story change with every google search before answering?
intaglio
(8,170 posts)The Kahan commission was a toothless face saving exercise. Just as the MAG's enquiry into the last Gaza conflict
King_David
(14,851 posts)In post 5 above you were criticizing the inquiry and the commission .
intaglio
(8,170 posts)a history of inaction and obfuscation; I used the the Kahan commission as a prime example of this two faced attitude.
Your wriggling and attempts to excuse war crimes has all the marks of an eight year old crying out that "... the other kids do the same!" Israel wants you and others to think of it as a spotless, shining example of freedom - it is not; it is a state that oppresses and makes mock of international standards of behaviour.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Bye